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Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

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  • kEhYo
    What is the conclulsion of the experiment that you performed in the video?

    Is there overunity?


    Wonju

    Comment


    • @ Wonju

      No, I haven't seen any signs of OU in my first prototype although it produced a nice AC sine wave on the output and while the output was under a maximum load the input power didn't increase much, just a tiny bit, which was a good sign.
      That is why I've built a second, much bigger device and I am testing it now, experimenting with alternative core configurations, output core thickness and alternative paths for the CEMF of the output coil...

      There IS potential in this topology IMHO...

      BTW do you see any flaws in my previous post addressing the issues in question?
      Last edited by kEhYo77; 12-01-2012, 03:02 PM.
      “ THE PERSON WHO SAYS IT CANNOT BE DONE SHOULD NOT INTERRUPT THE PERSON DOING IT ! ”

      Comment


      • Originally posted by hanon1492 View Post
        Hi all,

        This is the patent filed by Clemente Figuera in 1902 about his electrical generator (Spanish patent number 30378). In the pdf file I have included the spanish and english versions. It has a drawing so you need to see the attached pdf file.

        ---------------------

        Spanish Patent No. 30378 (1902) - Electrical Generator Figuera-Blasberg

        Since 1833, when, in France, Pixii built the first magneto-electric machine, to the present time, all machines magneto and dynamo-electric that inventors’ knowledge has materialized in the industry are based on the law of induction that says "all magnet which approaches or moves away from a close circuit, produces in it induced currents" In Gramme ring and in the current dynamos, current is produced by induction exerted on the wire of the induced circuits as its coils cut the lines of force created by the excitatory electromagnets, this is, as the induced circuit moves, quickly, inside the magnetic atmosphere which exists between the pole faces of the excitatory electromagnets and the soft iron core of the induced. In order to produce this movement, mechanical force need to be employed in large quantity, because it is necessary to overcome the magnetic attraction between the core and the excitatory electromagnets, attraction which opposes the motion, so the current dynamos are true machines for transforming mechanical work into electricity.

        The undersigned, believe that is exactly the same as the coils in the induced cut the lines of force, or that these lines of force cross the induced wire, because not changing xxxx?, by rotation, the arrangement of the magnetic fields, there is no necessity to move the core, for induction to occur. Leaving still both the induced circuit and the core, it is essential that lines of forces to be born and die, or being removed, which is achieved by making the excitatory current intermittent or alternating in sign.

        The current dynamos, come from groups of Clarke machines, and our generator recalls, in its fundamental principle, the Ruhmkorff induction coil. In that machine the induction machine is created by movement of the induced circuit: in the generator, induction occurs because of the intermittences of the current which magnetize the electromagnets, and in order to achieve these intermittences or changes in sign, only is required a very small quantity or almost negligible force, we, with our generator, produce the same effects of current dynamos without using any driving force at all.

        In the arrangement of the excitatory magnets and the induced, our generator has some analogy with dynamos, but completely differs from them in that, not requiring the use of motive power, is not a transforming apparatus. As much as we take, as a starting point, the fundamental principle that supports the construction of the Ruhmkorff induction coil, our generator is not a cluster of these coils which differs completely. It has the advantage that the soft iron core can be constructed with complete indifference of the induced circuit, allowing the core to be a real group of electromagnets, like the exciters, and covered with a proper wire in order that these electromagnets may develop the biggest attractive force possible, without worrying at all about the conditions that the induced wire must have for the voltage and amperage that is desired. In the winding of this induced wire, within the magnetic fields, are followed the requirements and practices known today in the construction of dynamos, and we refrain from going into further detail, believing it unnecessary.

        The inventors, who subscribe, constitute their generator, as follows: Several electromagnets are arranged opposing each other, and their opposite pole faces separated by a small distance. The cores of all these electromagnets are formed in such a way that they will magnetize and demagnetize quickly and not retain any residual magnetism. In the empty space remaining between the pole faces of the electromagnets of these two series, the induced wire passes in one piece, or several, or many. A excitatory current, intermittent, or alternating, actuates all the electromagnets, which are attached or in series, or in xxxxx?, or as required, and in the induced circuit will arise currents comprising, together, the total generator current. That allows suppressing the mechanical force, since there is nothing which needs to be moved. The driving current, or is an independent current, which, if direct, must be interrupted or changed in sign alternately by any known method, or is a part of the total current of the generator, as it is done today in the current dynamos.

        Founded on these considerations, Mr. Clemente Figuera and Mr. Pedro Blasberg, in the name and on behalf of the society "Figuera-Blasberg" respectfully requests to be granted final patent of invention for this generator whose form and arrangement are shown in the attached drawings, warning that, in them, and for clarity are sketched only eight electromagnets, or two sets of four excitatory electromagnets in each, and the induced circuit is marked by a thick line of reddish ink, being this way the general arrangement of the appliance, but meaning that you can put more or less electromagnets and in another form or grouping.

        The invention for which a patent is applied consists in following note.

        Note

        Invention of an electric generator without using mechanical force, since nothing moves, which produces the same effects of current dynamo-electric machines thanks to several fixed electromagnets, excited by a discontinuous or alternating current which creates an induction in the motionless induced circuit, placed within the magnetic fields of the excitatory electromagnets.

        Barcelona, the 5th of September of 1902

        Signed: Clemente Figuera and Pedro Blasberg

        After reading the patent info, and please correct me if I'm wrong, it looks to
        me like this device is a method to produce a roughly sinusoidal output with no
        moving parts providing motive force ( a semi solid state sine wave generator )
        I think the only reference to no motive force is (no mechanical motive
        force), I don't think there is any claims of extra energy or OU. If there is could
        someone point it out ? I think the motive force is (electromotive force) from
        the battery. The novelty was, at the time, that there was no need to rotate
        a generator or alternator to get AC in sinusoidal form.

        No motive force and no mechanical motive force do not mean no input, the
        input is emf (electro-motive force).

        A excitatory current, intermittent, or alternating, actuates all the
        electromagnets[/B], which are attached or in series, or in xxxxx?, or as
        required, and in the induced circuit will arise currents comprising, together,
        the total generator current.
        I think the part above says it all, the excitory current actuates the
        electromagnets and in the induced circuit will arise the total generator
        current.

        Basically it is a mechanically switched modified sine wave inverter.

        How would this device produce extra energy ?

        Cheers

        P.S. Don't get me wrong, it is a neat project, but I see no claim of free or
        extra energy, and no claim of no input. I don't get where the idea of a free
        energy machine is coming from.

        ..
        Last edited by Farmhand; 12-02-2012, 12:23 AM.

        Comment



        • P.S. Don't get me wrong, it is a neat project, but I see no claim of free or
          extra energy, and no claim of no input. I don't get where the idea of a free
          energy machine is coming from.

          ..
          Hi Farmhand

          When I first read the patent I had the same impression.
          Clemente's device IS an inverter with a twist...
          But after a while it came to me what might be happening
          inside the core assembly when it comes to flux paths and interaction between EMF and CEMF.

          I know that you are not a big fan of Thane's theory behind the BiTT but
          it looks like similar condition exist in Clemente's device for the CEMF of the secondary coil not to act against EMF from the primary winding as it has 'alternative path to go' so to speak.
          “ THE PERSON WHO SAYS IT CANNOT BE DONE SHOULD NOT INTERRUPT THE PERSON DOING IT ! ”

          Comment


          • Hi FarmLand,

            This is the patent from 1902 (where, by the way, it is said : " The driving current, or is an independent current, which, if direct, must be interrupted or changed in sign alternately by any known method, or is a part of the total current of the generator" )

            But the concept of OU is more clearly stated in the patent from 1908 where it is literally said that the machine can be a "self-excitatory" device and produce also a large amount of adictional current. Have a look to 1908 patent

            For me the key to get this device working is summarized in these senteces from the 1908 patent: "...the induced circuit, also fixed and immobile, [composed by] several reels or turns, properly placed. As neither of the two circuits spin, there is no need to make them round, nor leave any space between one and the other."
            Last edited by hanon1492; 12-02-2012, 01:24 AM.

            Comment


            • maybe he used a Rheotome.....

              Comment


              • Extract from 1908 patent about magnetic field

                "In short, the resistor makes the function of a splitter of current because those current not going to excite some electromagnets excites others and so on; it can be said that electrodes N and S works simultaneously and in opposite way because while the firsts fill up with current, the seconds are emptying and repeating this effect continuously and keeps a constant variation of the magnetic fields within which is placed the induced circuit..."

                For me it is strange that in 1902 patent is not mentioned anything about the way of modulating the current to each electromagnet. In fact in 1902 it seems that the same current is fed to both electromagnets.

                Is this modelation of current really needed, or is it just an added feature in the second patent in order to achive a alternating current output (which was not the case in the output current of the first patent)?

                Any thought or idea?

                Comment


                • Hi all,
                  I have found something which may be useful. Using a full wave rectifier you can convert normal AC current (from the network) to a always positive oscillating wave





                  If you use the direct outputs of this rectifier in one electromagnet and reverse the connections (outputs) of this rectifier in the other electromagnet you can get almost an inverse signal in both electromagnet . This signal is not completely constant (I1 + I2 = Aprox. Constant) but it is almost constant and it may be worth to try . At least it is easier to build because it is a solid state comutator. Can you put in parallel a DC source to feed an extra DC current and avoid reaching points of zero current?. What do you think?

                  Comment


                  • I think we need a source of AC , a phase shifter to get a copy of source AC but shifter by 90 degrees in phase and two diode bridges.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by boguslaw View Post
                      ...by 90 degrees in phase
                      Opposite signals must be 180º shifted. I agree with KehYo.

                      Mathematically: 0º and 360º shifted is the same signal. 180º ( or also 2·pi radians) is opposite.

                      I think that opposite signal may be obtained just by reversing the wire connection at both sides of the second electromagnet with respect to the connection in the first electromagnet. Am I right?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by hanon1492 View Post
                        Opposite signals must be 180º shifted. I agree with KehYo.

                        Mathematically: 0º and 360º shifted is the same signal. 180º ( or also 2·pi radians) is opposite.

                        I think that opposite signal may be obtained just by reversing the wire connection at both sides of the second electromagnet with respect to the connection in the first electromagnet. Am I right?
                        I have finished the prototype and I will be running some tests. The driver is working beautifully at about 60Hz!
                        @Hanon
                        One way that I developed to test the polarity of the primaries is the following:
                        Connect the primary coils in parallel and applied a small AC voltage. If the secondary voltage is zero, then the polarity of the primaries is correct. If the secondary voltage is not zero, the polarity is incorrect and the terminals of one of the primary coils must be reversed.
                        What happens is the following:
                        When the voltages applied to the primaries are 180 degrees shifted, one primary is inducing +V (say the north pole) and the other is inducing –V (say the south pole). The sum of this two voltages in the secondary coil adds to zero. CORRECT POLARITY!
                        When the voltages applied to the primaries are in phase, one primary is inducing +V (say the north pole) and the other is inducing +V (say another north pole). The sum of the two voltages in the secondary coil is 2*V. INCORRECT POLARITY!
                        This is something I tested in the bench! So if the two primary voltages are 180 degrees shifted, the induced secondary voltage is equal to zero. In conclusion, if you want some juice out of the secondary coil, the two primary voltages CANNOT BE SHIFTED 180 DEGREES. Of course, you may say that is the case for AC. Then we are referring to the same thing. I think?

                        Wonju

                        Comment


                        • Have someone heard of two DC volages being 180 degrees out of phase? Or, is this term reserved for AC voltages?

                          Wonju

                          Comment


                          • Since this is free energy it is not too far out of context.
                            Mr. Hendershot did it, he made an electronic version of the V gate.


                            Permanent Magnet Motor V-gate Re-gauging from Roobert33 - YouTube
                            This is it
                            Half of the Answer is knowing the right Question

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by wonju View Post
                              Have someone heard of two DC volages being 180 degrees out of phase? Or, is this term reserved for AC voltages?

                              Wonju
                              DC current can be modulated, therefore it can show a waveform (triangular, square,...)with a certain period without reversing its direction (crossing zero). AC currents needs to reverse its direction

                              I think he have to stop saying 90º 180º ... What it is for sure is that both signal must be opposite. I think we all agree in that.

                              Comment


                              • There is another way of explaining the phase angle. As described in the paper, the DC waveforms can be defined mathematically as a sine function with angle between 0 and 180. Then, the waveform of the voltage applied to the other primary must be 90 degrees shifted.

                                Wonju

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