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  • My point was to show two different phenomena in induction which is the only key idea. But if you want to feel better looking at a superficial sight then it is true that you are right and the real equations are emf = -A·dB/dt and emf = v*B·Length (and if you sleep more peacefully note that * stand for vectorial product, not scalar product (·), or in magnitude v·B·sin(theta)·Length )

    A proverb says that when ones points to the moon, there are people who look at the finger.



    I hope the image above and the video with Mr. Feynman makes you think profoundly
    Last edited by hanon1492; 03-02-2017, 06:13 AM.

    Comment


    • Dot

      Originally posted by hanon1492 View Post
      My point was to show two different phenomena in induction which is the only key idea. But if you want to feel better looking at a superficial sight then it is true that you are right and the real equations are emf = -A·dB/dt and emf = v*B·Length (and if you sleep more peacefully note that * stand for vectorial product, not scalar product (·), or in magnitude v·B·sin(theta)·Length )

      A proverb says that when ones points to the moon, there are people who look at the finger.



      I hope the image above and the video with Mr. Feynman makes you think profoundly
      The dot product was a carry forward from quoting your post #2322. Perhaps confusion arises due to the scalar vs vector nature of emf and E. Or the limitations of one's keyboard. Where did you find "that * stand for vectorial product"?

      I don't disagree with the basic point but have difficulty with your reasoning and presentation. But you're entitled to your opinions. I am giving my opinions of what you post. Leave it at that. I don't want to argue.

      bi
      Last edited by bistander; 03-02-2017, 02:38 PM. Reason: Typo

      Comment


      • Originally posted by hanon1492 View Post
        Many months ago somebody already suggested that... Even posted an electronic circuit. But it fell in deaf ears.



        Hello Hanon,

        Could you please link to that old comment with circuit on the Flip Flop Signals?


        Thanks


        Ufopolitics
        Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

        Comment


        • A simple Test...

          Hello to All,

          Here are the results of a test I ran today, and a simple diagram of the set up:

          [IMG][/IMG]

          The Input Signal is based on the reversed square waves generated by rotary switch with comm divided in two 180 degrees with all contacts jumped, giving the On-Off times for each primary.

          All Six coils are the same spec's, same awg (23), same length wire (600 ft), same # of layers (26) and number of turns for each layer(38), each coil length is One(1) Inch.

          The Two Blue Coils are being switched as Primaries with polarities as shown.

          Input was 28V and 0.3 to 0.4 A (DC) from Linear PSU.

          On above input, let me explain that the starting V was dialed at very close to 30V (analog meter) and around 1 amp on my old Linear PSU, then as I increased speed to operating RPM's (3659) V lowered down and oscillated from 25 to 28V as Amperage also went down between 0.3 TO 0.4A DC
          The operating best voltage for this two coils being switched is around 30V, as when I go higher to 40V and 2-3 A, Induction reduces even though field is much stronger. I have no idea why...

          The Two Inner (sandwiched) light green Coils were the Highest

          Output 1: was 28V and 0.631 A (AC)

          The Two Outer ones were:

          Output 2: 18V and 0.62 A (AC)

          I am NOT claiming this as OU, since the Rotary Switch was consuming 26V and 0.8A DC from switched PSU to reach exactly and steadily 3659 RPM's.

          Plus I had also connected a small brushless cooling fan to rotary switching motor with a Third PSU...using like 8.0V and 0.07A


          Output 2 Secondaries are collecting from each South Poles switching at both ends alternatively and into "open space" (meaning not compressed repulse field here). However, if the Geometry would allow it and have them both Souths face to face as Out Secondaries Coils in between (as with Out 1 Config)...the output would be in the range of Output 1.

          All Output Coils were positioned and connected between them as I have previously shown before (end-start/start-end)

          Other thing to note is that all coils were exactly same spec's...Meaning, I was not trying to increase Output based on heavier gauge wire plus more layers-number of turns Coils as Secondaries...neither greater sized iron cores.

          This was just a simple testing based on identical coils all mounted on the same single core of 1 1/2 in thick and 6 1/2 in length, all having 12.6 to 13.0 Ohms each.


          Thanks & Regards to All


          Ufopolitics
          Last edited by Ufopolitics; 03-02-2017, 10:18 PM.
          Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post

            Could you please link to that old comment with circuit on the Flip Flop Signals?
            Sure

            http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post294870

            Ufo, very good tests!! . As you see strong electromagnets is the way to go. The consumption in the rotary switch is required to add it, but it is not required in an perfect ideal switching device. (!!)

            If you let me a suggestion I would do a test with different input voltages, while measuring the current from the electromagnets in their outlet wire. For example use a 0.47 ohms test resistor ( able to windstand 10W or 25W ) and measure the voltage drop in the resistor extremes with your scope. Then you will see the current waveform . Applying Ohm Law the current across the resistor is I = V/0.47, where V is the signal measured in the scope.

            The operating best voltage for this two coils being switched is around 30V, as when I go higher to 40V and 2-3 A, Induction reduces even though field is much stronger. I have no idea why...
            Try reducing RPMs (frequency) in this situation. I do know the result but it is something easy to test. With pulsed signals you just may play with input voltage and frequency.
            Last edited by hanon1492; 03-02-2017, 10:49 PM.

            Comment


            • ??

              UFO; . http://www.energeticforum.com/299286-post2339.html

              1) I just want to ask: In your post #2339 you say all coils have the same spec.

              When you wind them; You start with the thread at one side of the "mold"/ bobbin. You winds one layer unitil the thread meats the other side of the mold.
              Now the thread have to jump up above the fist layer.

              Z) . Do you now let the thread wind back in opposite direction in a ZIG-ZAG fashion?

              P) . OR do you take the thread back to the start position (one) and wind the second layer above the first in the same direction as that? (to other)

              2) . "identical coils all mounted on the same single core of 1 1/2 in thick and 6 1/2 in length"
              . . . Now not the 6 of, one inch long cores screwed together?

              Regards Arne
              Last edited by seaad; 03-03-2017, 08:54 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by seaad View Post
                UFO; . http://www.energeticforum.com/299286-post2339.html

                1) I just want to ask: In your post #2339 you say all coils have the same spec.

                When you wind them; You start with the thread at one side of the "mold"/ bobbin. You winds one layer unitil the thread meats the other side of the mold.
                Now the thread have to jump up above the fist layer.

                Z) . Do you now let the thread wind back in opposite direction in a ZIG-ZAG fashion?

                P) . OR do you take the thread back to the start position (one) and wind the second layer above the first in the same direction as that? (to other)
                Hello Seaad,

                Z...I do them "Zig-Zag" Style.

                I start the first layer from Right to Left (<<<L1) then (L2>>>) from Left to Right...and so on to L26.

                Very tight, very uniform, not crossed wires at all!!

                In between each layer I wrap also very tight High Temp Plastic Tape, which is very fine (thin) but very strong....this way, I can slide out a very, very solid and compact coil, once it is finished.

                Originally posted by seaad View Post
                [B]2) . "identical coils all mounted on the same single core of 1 1/2 in thick and 6 1/2 in length"
                . . . Now not the 6 of, one inch long cores screwed together?

                Regards Arne
                I have tested BOTH options, and there is not any noticeable difference between a full, solid core or individual cores for each coil with thin gap and screwed together by brass screws.

                So, this test was done with a full, solid core.

                Today I am going to wind another "twin" coils...but this time I will be using 22 gauge steel lamination strips of same length of coil, sandwiched between each layer, same length, same gauge wire (23)...to observe if there is a difference with and without steel...and I am pretty sure it "should" be a big difference since field would be amplified at a "per layer" increase ratio.

                I will be using this two coils as Exciters (primaries) as also as Induced with same Input conditions I had on Test 1. To observe if there was any improvement in both options.

                The ideal way, would be to wind a full, continuous Lamination of iron strip from Layer 1 to Layer 26...but it can not be "Physically Possible" to wind Copper wire and steel strips at same time...so, this rings would do the job as well...closed.

                Another option would be thinner iron laminated strips of say like 1/4 in, wrapped at each layer in the same direction of the layer.

                I am gonna start cutting metal...and once I try on first layer...then I will go either option....don't want it "too bulky"...


                Regards


                Ufopolitics
                Last edited by Ufopolitics; 03-03-2017, 02:08 PM.
                Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                Comment


                • Thanks Hanon,

                  That circuit is pretty "elemental"...meaning, no power source for whole thing, but separate sources...I will search on the twin inverters...but I have seen it with dual 556 flip flop diagrams.

                  Originally posted by hanon1492 View Post
                  Ufo, very good tests!! . As you see strong electromagnets is the way to go. The consumption in the rotary switch is required to add it, but it is not required in an perfect ideal switching device. (!!)

                  If you let me a suggestion I would do a test with different input voltages, while measuring the current from the electromagnets in their outlet wire. For example use a 0.47 ohms test resistor ( able to windstand 10W or 25W ) and measure the voltage drop in the resistor extremes with your scope. Then you will see the current waveform . Applying Ohm Law the current across the resistor is I = V/0.47, where V is the signal measured in the scope.

                  Try reducing RPMs (frequency) in this situation. I do know the result but it is something easy to test. With pulsed signals you just may play with input voltage and frequency.
                  Thanks, I will try those options (tests)...but have to get the 0.47 ohm resistor at 25 W...I like test, because it scopes rise and fall.

                  Amperage on Secondaries was tested by directly shorting out terminals with my Digital EXTECH Ammeter, which have DC and AC Amps settings (not my Clamp) and also with an incandescent lamp and adding meter in series with bulb.


                  Regards


                  Ufopolitics
                  Last edited by Ufopolitics; 03-03-2017, 02:07 PM.
                  Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                  Comment


                  • UFO;

                    "Another option would be thinner iron laminated strips of say like 1/4 in, wrapped at each layer in the same direction of the layer."

                    Rings (laminate) with a slit? As my pic ?? /Arne
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by seaad; 03-03-2017, 02:43 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seaad View Post
                      UFO;

                      "Another option would be thinner iron laminated strips of say like 1/4 in, wrapped at each layer in the same direction of the layer."

                      Rings (laminate) with a slit? As my pic ?? /Arne

                      I decided to do full length of coil strips, closed (making contact steel start with steel end) like a ring...so, no slit, meaning, not open.

                      See, this laminated strips create a "Magnetic Circuit", not electrical...so, closing it would generate a stronger expanding wave for the layer beneath...and so on.

                      The smaller strips "spirals" will create gaps which make next layer uneven...and sloppy, plus more possibilities of shorting out if temp rises too much.

                      Plus too much work...


                      Ufopolitics
                      Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                      Comment


                      • &quot;Upgrading&quot; Figuera Generator to New Technologies...

                        Hello to All,

                        This Post is like thinking out loud...with diagrams...

                        I have run so many times on my mind, the way a Typical, Single Phase, Self Excited Generator works...I have dismantled like Four of them...some, all the way to completely unwind them...I have conducted several on line and books search...that by now, I fully understand all details...

                        The Basic Components are very simple as they are the same for either Brushed or Brushless types:

                        [IMG][/IMG]

                        Let's say we have a generator that was sitting for a very long time...and so:

                        In a BRUSHED TYPE, it may have lost its magnetic reminiscence...then we need to add what is known as a "re-magnetizing" of its rotor core...how we do this?

                        Simple, we Inject DC Power (only like 50V) at the two Brushes connected to slip rings, so steel rotor is magnetized again...making sure we hit the right Brush polarization

                        In a BRUSH-LESS TYPE the Stators Exciting Fields are attached to an AC running Capacitor, so we do a "Flash Charge" which could be either AC or DC...also like 50 V is enough.

                        But the main thing here is how it does reach full power out at Mains (120V/20A-240V/10A), just by using 50V?

                        And it bolts down to just even a residual power at the exciter system...in order that when Fields starts its FLUCTUATIONS (Changes) from start to FULL SPEED, for the generation of the required power.

                        Now, the question here is...which Exciting System Component (of the main two parts) really starts the whole "Process"?

                        Unbelievable, and more clearly seen on the Brushless type...it takes place at the Exciting Stator Coils, attached to an AC Cap...which we flashed only 50V.

                        Now this STATOR EXCITING FIELD are very SMALL COILS, Thin wire, and only just "a few" turns...which in most cases of brushless type it reads from 1.4 to only 3.5 Ohms...and it Feeds by Induction the Main Exciting Rotor Field, which in the case of Brushless, is looped with a Diode plus a Varistor to keep its DC Voltage constant.

                        In turn, once this ROTOR FIELD, which is made of MUCH HEAVIER COIL TURNS, still of same gauge wire, meaning THIN WIRE, with many turns that could have up to 70 Ohms resistance gets fully energized by rotation/fluctuation from the smaller coil...it starts Inducing the Mains Generating Fields...and this process take only like 10-15 minutes to be fully operational.

                        Now when we go to the way we are "trying" to build a Figuera Generator, based on Technologies from 1908...

                        And so, comparing it to above Typical Structure Generator...what we are simply doing...is completely IGNORING THAT SMALL TWO COILS of only a few turns which could only start with 50V...and which "FULLY fills up" by FIELD FLUCTUATIONS the Big Rotor Field.

                        I believe We are all "jumping the Gun" here by directly PULSATING the BIG FAT COIL...at 3600 RPM's or 60 Hz Frequency....and so spending HUGE ENERGY in the Process.

                        Why can't we pulsate a few turns of thin wire coil (with a heavy Core) at 60Hz...which would fill up the BIG FAT EXCITING FIELD COIL, also mounted on a HEAVY CORE, so it, in turn, would INDUCE SECONDARIES?


                        First, we will only be spending "nickel and dimes" of our energy to FILL UP this very small coil, in order that, at Operating Frequencies, it fills Up the FAT COIL.

                        Say we use TWO FAT COILS in order to have two N-N or two S-S (Primaries)...and so, say we LOOP THEM BOTH INDEPENDENTLY with Diodes which will allow currents in one direction, therefore, Field would be a DC...just like in a BRUSH-LESS TYPE CONFIGURATION:

                        [IMG][/IMG]

                        We must ALSO realize that Figuera Induction works FROM OUTSIDE-INWARDS...While a Typical Generator works FROM INSIDE OUTWARDS...Based on Magnetic Vectors Directions of their Poles.

                        This fact above makes Us configure the Exciting Components in Hierarchy Order should be positioned from Outside-Inwards...where our Innermost Set of Coils should be the Mains Generating Fields...as the further Out, should be the Small, Thin Exciting Field Coils (P1), which we will pulse at 60 Hz, so they will fill up the FAT COILS (P2)...See IMG below:

                        [IMG][/IMG]

                        The P2 are looped with Ultra Fast Diodes, and so they should just "Mirror" the Fluctuations from Both P1, both (P1-P2) are wound same direction. So, P2 does not require any direct feeding connection, but based on TRANSFERRED INDUCED POWER SIGNALS from both P1's.

                        If we have a "Response Issue" by P2, since they are heavier turns, therefore higher reactance/impedance, then we could pulse P1 Faster than 60Hz...until P2 reach the required frequency.

                        Like I wrote in the beginning of post...this is just "Out loud Thinking"...However, I have tested Diodes Looped Coils and they do exactly the same way as in a Brushless Type Gen.

                        Sorry if too long of a post...


                        Regards


                        Ufopolitics
                        Last edited by Ufopolitics; 03-03-2017, 05:21 PM.
                        Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                        Comment


                        • Steel coils

                          Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                          I decided to do full length of coil strips, closed (making contact steel start with steel end) like a ring...so, no slit, meaning, not open.

                          See, this laminated strips create a "Magnetic Circuit", not electrical...so, closing it would generate a stronger expanding wave for the layer beneath...and so on.

                          The smaller strips "spirals" will create gaps which make next layer uneven...and sloppy, plus more possibilities of shorting out if temp rises too much.

                          Plus too much work...


                          Ufopolitics
                          Hi Ufo,

                          This is a bad idea. The added steel "circuit" is oriented incorrectly to aid the primary magnetic path. Magnetic-wise it will do as much or more harm than good mostly as leakage paths. But the real killer is the electrical aspect. It is a conductor. So expect eddy currents and loss associated with those. But even worse, the steel wrap(s) are shorted "secondary" turns which will experience high currents and get hot quickly.

                          Just my opinion.

                          bi

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by bistander View Post
                            Hi Ufo,

                            This is a bad idea. The added steel "circuit" is oriented incorrectly to aid the primary magnetic path. Magnetic-wise it will do as much or more harm than good mostly as leakage paths. But the real killer is the electrical aspect. It is a conductor. So expect eddy currents and loss associated with those. But even worse, the steel wrap(s) are shorted "secondary" turns which will experience high currents and get hot quickly.

                            Just my opinion.

                            bi
                            Hello Bistander,


                            I do highly appreciate your opinion, as I consider to be very valuable, thanks!

                            Basically, I am trying to "Enhance" or Magnify even more the Magnetic Field than just the center steel core does...

                            What if thinner strips are used...in a one inch length coil...to use LESS THAN 1/4 strips in an open spiral shape (not contacting each others)...which was my second option?


                            Thanks


                            Ufopolitics
                            Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                            Comment


                            • Another Disadvantage We have...

                              Hello at All,

                              Another huge disadvantage we all have in the Figuera Design...is that in the "LINEAR CONFIG" we are only using One End of the Full Compressed Field by Like Poles...Completely wasting the opposed poles, which are open out to Space...and even though in my testing we still collect "some" energy...we are wasting close to a Fifty percent for not having face to face repulsion poles.

                              We must realize a Magnetic Field "EXHAUST" Energy from BOTH POLES...and so by only using the pulses from one side...the other one is lost...at least in a high percent.

                              My Future tests would be done in a Toroid Geometry Core...but wanna have first, the Full working configuration linearly, before I migrate to that set up...


                              Regards


                              Ufopolitics
                              Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                              Comment


                              • Core

                                Ufo,

                                Adding steel inbetween winding layers will not enhance the magnetics. If you want to add steel, put it in the core or extend the core to actually make a steel magnetic circuit. What you have now is over half air. As such, you have very high reluctance and low flux in your present core even with as high of mmf as you dare in your primary coils. In other words, with that straight bar core, you're not fully utilizing the steel now and certainly don't need to add more in the coils.

                                Regards,

                                bi

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