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Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

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  • Originally posted by Doug1 View Post
    The only credit due to anyone is to Clemente. No one can take any credit of any worth after the inventor unless you can produce a reasonable improvement to the patent which would be pretty damn hard since it is the process which he patented. The design provided was just an easy example by which he could reference his explanation with visual components. Not much point in fighting over who was first, small children fight over who was first and who ate more cookies. At the end of the day no one will care and eventually everyone will forget who was the biggest ass hole. You wont even get credit for being an ass hole. Just never mention each other by name in any thread so those who seek to actually build this can.Without having to wade through all the publicly view able bull **** you two are slinging at one another. It does not make any difference who started it or who last insulted who just stop. Act your age it quit being funny a long time ago. Now you are both impeding the progress of others. First and last post here.
    Well said.

    Last post here also.

    Edit. Not last post to reply to more insults.

    From Richard Feyman, Nobel Prize Winner 1965, in his lectures Vol.2 Chapter 17:


    "So the “flux rule”—that the emf in a circuit is equal to the rate of change of the magnetic flux through the circuit—applies whether the flux changes because the field changes or because the circuit moves (or both). The two possibilities—“circuit moves” or “field changes”—are not distinguished in the statement of the rule. Yet in our explanation of the rule we have used two completely distinct laws for the two cases—v×B for “circuit moves” and ∇×E=−∂B/∂t for “field changes.”
    We know of no other place in physics where such a simple and accurate general principle requires for its real understanding an analysis in terms of two different phenomena. Usually such a beautiful generalization is found to stem from a single deep underlying principle. Nevertheless, in this case there does not appear to be any such profound implication. We have to understand the “rule” as the combined effects of two quite separate phenomena."
    Last edited by hanon1492; 01-10-2017, 02:38 AM.

    Comment


    • E-core backiron

      Originally posted by bistander View Post
      Hi hanon,

      The tube you show is not what I had in mind with E-core. I'll try to get a diagram with better explanation.
      O.K. So I gave it a shot and took CM's simulation:



      And added an E-core:



      Yeah, I know. Not too good with the graphics. But hopefully you can get the idea. I think to use just one section of E-core lamination stack where the cross sectional area is equal to that of the core thru the coils. This way, all the flux from each end of the core thru the coils can go thru the backiron (E-core) to the center leg and there downward thru the seconday coil turns into its core and complete its circuit. The flux lines would cut the secondary conductors at quadrature like I've been telling Ufo they do in generators. The void areas in the E-core (shown in white) represent high reluctance paths and will direct maximum flux where you want it; crossing the secondary coil.

      Just an idea. Use it or lose it.

      bi
      Attached Files

      Comment


      • Hold the phone

        First of all Doug i was not arguing with this fool, i simply brought up the FACT the info he tried to claim as his was NOT HIS TO CLAIM.

        Second, what is with you?? you suddenly pop your head up out of the blue, scold us, then disappear. wow that was real helpful. i say BS.
        thanks pal, what are friends for when you could of been on the continuum all along with no arguing but i guess me trying to find the right people that would listen to you wasn't enough.

        HONON; you are not worth my time nor anyone else's.

        Bistander;

        I still won't work, any metal near the secondary with a fast path to the primary will siphon off so much that you won't get a reasonable output. even the pressure between the primaries will be hard to maintain as nearly all flux will be diverted through the half E.

        test it for yourself please !

        MM
        Last edited by marathonman; 01-09-2017, 08:13 PM.

        Comment


        • Magnetic expert - not

          Originally posted by marathonman View Post

          Bistander;

          I still won't work, any metal near the secondary with a fast path to the primary will siphon off so much that you won't get a reasonable output. even the pressure between the primaries will be hard to maintain as nearly all flux will be diverted through the half E.

          test it for yourself please !

          MM
          Hi MM,

          I'll test it when I can be assured that the Figuera device operates as self powered O.U. energy source. At that time I'll either buy one or build one. But as of this date, I have seen no evidence that it will meet my minimum criteria.

          As to your opinions of the magnetics involved with my idea of use of E-core to improve the magnetic circuit, they don't mean much to me. I don't think you know what you're talking about. I base this on past posts from you regarding magnetics. Most recently, one from the other thread. See below:

          Originally posted by marathonman View Post
          UFOP;
          The reason you are getting erratic behavior is what we talked about on the other thread about a week or so ago. your primaries and secondaries are completely saturated. try dialing down on the voltage and amperage to a small amount then work your way up. this was also verified from Doug as to the cause.
          ...
          MM
          Mr. Ufo has stated enough of his design and operational parameters to do a basic calculation of the flux density in one of his primary coils. That comes out to be about 8 mT (or 0.008 Tesla). And even a cast iron core material would saturate about 0.5 Tesla. So he is about 2 orders of magnitude too low to worry about saturation.

          So what gives with your statement that cores were "completely saturated"? If you care to list your calculations, perhaps we can find the error. Or was your statement sarcastic again?

          Just keep on giving your followers advice. Someday you're bound to get something right.

          Regards,

          bi
          Last edited by bistander; 01-10-2017, 06:32 AM. Reason: Typo

          Comment


          • More insults...then I can not leave

            Originally posted by marathonman View Post
            First of all Doug i was not arguing with this fool
            Foolproof is what users of the forum will need to be from now on, without a brake to your intelligent posts.

            Originally posted by marathonman View Post
            you are not worth my time nor anyone else's.
            Challenge not accepted by MM. I guess why.

            Good luck to All.
            Last edited by hanon1492; 01-10-2017, 02:51 PM.

            Comment


            • Really

              Mr What Ever,

              So how else do you explain the Erratic behavior of his scope. please enlighten us with you Genius prophecy minus your sarcastic mouth.....PLEASE. !

              Can you please try to be a little more cordial and a little less smart mouth as i have invoked nothing on my part.
              Test it please as your software will reveal NOTHING as it is dogma programming and does not deal with NN fields.

              Hanon;
              as i said you are a waste of ANYONE's time.

              And again i see both of you were on my profile page looking at my pics and info again. so who is blow smoke up who's back side.

              NOT ME !

              MM
              Last edited by marathonman; 01-10-2017, 02:23 PM.

              Comment


              • Saturation

                Originally posted by marathonman View Post
                Mr What Ever,
                So how else do you explain the Erratic behavior of his scope. please enlighten us with you Genius prophecy minus your sarcastic mouth.....PLEASE. !

                Can you please try to be a little more cordial and a little less smart mouth as i have invoked nothing on my part.
                Test it please as your software will reveal NOTHING as it is dogma programming and does not deal with NN fields.
                Mr What Ever is cordial?

                You ask me for explanations concerning my statements and interpretations but don't give any yourself when I ask. Like how you calculated or otherwise determined saturation?

                I think it is obvious that the erratic behavior of his scope traces is due to erratic commutation. He even mentioned that.

                To what software do you refer? Did you think I used some program for calculating flux? I used the back of an envelope and calculator. The orientation and proximity of another coil or pole doesn't enter into my calculation. If you think it should, please provide your method to calculate flux density to determine saturation.

                Again, please demonstrate your method of determining saturation in his coils/cores.

                Regards,

                bi

                {edit}
                Originally posted by marathonman View Post
                please enlighten us with you Genius prophecy minus your sarcastic mouth.....PLEASE. !
                Are you being sarcastic? Ironic isn't it?
                Last edited by bistander; 01-10-2017, 03:50 PM.

                Comment


                • Who cares?

                  Originally posted by marathonman View Post
                  ...

                  And again i see both of you were on my profile page looking at my pics and info again. so who is blow smoke up who's back side.

                  NOT ME !

                  MM
                  MM,

                  I do remember about a week ago hitting a wrong button while navigating this website using my smart phone. I did in fact notice your profile page loading as the *back* button quickly loaded the previous page. Big deal. Who cares? You I guess. Why? No idea. So what if someone looks at your profile page? Why do you keep track of such things? Are you paranoid? Or vain?

                  Strange indeed.

                  bi

                  Comment


                  • Eddy currents

                    Originally posted by marathonman View Post
                    Eddies will be nonexistent in the primaries as the only time there will be eddies is at initial power up. other then that primaries do not have eddy current. that is why they are so efficient, no flux reversal.
                    ...
                    MM
                    Eddies or eddy currents are currents induced in the ferrous core due to changing flux in that core. Most common is the case in transformers and motors (& generators) where the changing flux is due to AC excitation thereby causing flux reversals or changing polarity of the core. Eddy currents are a manifestation of Faraday's Law of induction. As such, the induced current (eddy) is a result of a change in flux. This change in flux can be a change in magnitude. It doesn't necessarily have to be a change in direction of the flux or change in polarity.

                    The purpose of part G is to change the currents in the primary coils. True, this current does not change direction. Therefore the flux in the primary core(s) does not change direction, but it will continually be changing amplitude. So there will be eddy currents in the primary core(s) and losses associated with those eddy currents.

                    Regards,

                    bi
                    Last edited by bistander; 01-20-2017, 01:31 PM. Reason: Typo

                    Comment


                    • A tip to the builders on the forbidden thread.

                      When you reuse old (rusty) transformers laminations and these have been have machined make sure that ALL EDGES of ALL SINGLE LAMINATION plates have been sanded, no sharp edges left. Secure that EACH lamination plate don't make ANY electrical contact to each other. Use/ spray some varnish again. In my experimentation I found this to be essential. And welded transformers are condemnable.
                      YOU WANT OU, RIGHT!

                      Bistander; right, the guys over there still think they are dealing with DC only.

                      UFOP; The REAL Builder, Yeah!
                      Regards, Arne
                      Last edited by seaad; 01-20-2017, 12:29 PM.

                      Comment


                      • About Eddy Currents and Laminated cores...

                        @Bistander and Seead,

                        I am sorry but IMHO you guys are paying way too much attention to Eddy Currents...as to laminations "insulation" (Seead)

                        Lamination Cores in Transformers is clearly understood, as they are based on AC flow, where the creation of all kind of crazy inner magnetic vortexes of different spin directions are generated within core...so, fragmenting the core into laminations would diminish the area of action of such opposite and therefore "parasitic" vortices.

                        Related to the Figuera device I would rather consider to make all Secondaries with laminated cores...just because the flow there would be purely AC, therefore, reversing current flow, and a laminated core structure will generate a cleaner output sinewave without much distortion.

                        About the Primaries of the Figuera, like you've said, Bistander, they are working with one direction current flow and flux...so Eddies IMO would be negligible there.

                        @Seead: Thanks for the REAL builder "title"...However, let me say that there are many builders which are just not showing their work at Thread...for many different reasons...even being shy...or just not speaking fluently the English Language...an example video is shown below:

                        [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpvWTK-fj3s&t=3s[/VIDEO]

                        About your almost "Surgical Detail" about laminated cores treatment...think that all Transformer Cores have welding stitches running from top to bottom, in order to keep laminations together...as well as in Motors and Generators Rotors and Outer Frames Laminated iron structures also have welding stitching plus steel bolts running across without absolutely any insulation and very tight...meaning, it is really "not that critical" at all...to take so many precautions when dealing with laminated cores...


                        Regards


                        Ufopolitics
                        Last edited by Ufopolitics; 01-20-2017, 03:56 PM.
                        Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                        Comment


                        • Ok UFOP You have your opinion/ experience, I have mine. My choice is ferrite and a much higher freq than 60 Hz. / Arne

                          Comment


                          • MM quote: figuera-device-part-g-continuum-serious-builders-only

                            Keep up the good work guys, it won't be long now.

                            Was BS'ing around today with nothing to do. just playing around

                            always worried what OTHER PEOPLE are doing instead of concentrating on their OWN WORK.


                            YES We*, I are interested and waiting....

                            PS: * 630 views a day
                            Last edited by seaad; 01-20-2017, 08:55 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Eddy currents

                              Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                              ...

                              About the Primaries of the Figuera, like you've said, Bistander, they are working with one direction current flow and flux...so Eddies IMO would be negligible there.
                              ...
                              Hi Ufo,

                              Negligible? Maybe. But there are many devices where the excitation is DC with ripple on the magnetics and they design with laminated or ferrite cores.

                              Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                              ...
                              Related to the Figuera device I would rather consider to make all Secondaries with laminated cores...just because the flow there would be purely AC, therefore, reversing current flow, and a laminated core structure will generate a cleaner output sinewave without much distortion.
                              ...
                              You know? It is the same flux in the primary and secondary cores. And if you get a zero crossing AC in the secondary winding, why don't you think you'll see reversing eddy currents? The eddy is actually like a secondary winding where the conductive core is the single turn "coil" - so to speak.

                              Brings up an interesting concept. Is your moving flux in the secondary core going to induce extra eddies in the core?

                              Let's find out.

                              bi

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by bistander View Post
                                Hi Ufo,

                                Negligible? Maybe. But there are many devices where the excitation is DC with ripple on the magnetics and they design with laminated or ferrite cores.
                                Agree Bistander, however, I believe you are referring to sensitive devices where minor distortions will affect functionality...what we are doing here is different...it is more "rough" or tougher handling of currents and voltages to obtain an Induction output which later could be filtered, smoothed out etc.

                                Same way as in a Home Generator head is build up tough...referring to armature and fields etc...meaning, lots of welding runs (stitches) and bolts-nuts which go across laminations without much care about eddy currents or shorting lamination array.

                                Originally posted by bistander View Post
                                You know? It is the same flux in the primary and secondary cores.
                                And if you get a zero crossing AC in the secondary winding, why don't you think you'll see reversing eddy currents? The eddy is actually like a secondary winding where the conductive core is the single turn "coil" - so to speak.
                                Please, allow me to clarify your bold statement above...just a bit.

                                Sorry but not exactly the same Flux in primary as secondary...secondary flux is a "mix", a fusion from two opposed magnetic polarizations...which generates a repulse field...and so, this formed repulse field is none of the two primaries fields if looking at each independently.

                                So, for an instance, look at this formed repulse field which is what actually generates Induction at secondary...it moves back and forth, so, this forward-backward movement is what generates this back and forth flux within secondary core and coil.

                                Now what takes place at each primary is just a field increase-decrease, gets stronger gets weaker...but same field, no reversing of currents nor flux.

                                Let me put it another way...say we are NOT moving that Repulse Field Back and Forth, like Figuera device does...but a single direction all the time...say a constant rotation movement around a circular coil as secondary (on a Toroid Core maybe?)...we will still get induction at secondary. And so the higher the speed of the repulse field traversing the core...the higher the output.

                                That's exactly how my Repulse Generator works...

                                Originally posted by bistander View Post

                                Brings up an interesting concept. Is your moving flux in the secondary core going to induce extra eddies in the core?

                                Let's find out.

                                bi
                                It might, just because the repulse field resulting from both primaries pressures and the real cause for induction...is moving its flux back and forth along the core and windings...now, this effect does not happens at primaries.

                                Hope you understand.


                                Regards


                                Ufopolitics
                                Last edited by Ufopolitics; 01-20-2017, 07:17 PM.
                                Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                                Comment

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