Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera

[Dwane]

Hi Ufo,
I think I get it with the parallel coils. Don smith says double the voltage and quadruple the output. Being 90 degrees out of phase simulates double voltage.

Just one other thing. It seems to me that there has to be a disparity between the secondary solenoids and the primary output coil. That it, the secondaries have to have the minimum resistance possible to allow a small magnetic bias current and then enable a greater/ sharper flux force when the "G" modulator is rotating.

Thanks for the feedback

Dwane

[Ufopolitics]

@Citfta

Hello Citfta,

Ok, now you should have realized that your armature wire resistance is what is causing wave to go up-down...as you would be able to measure its resistance by setting meter probes to BOTH brushes...IMHO I do not think resistance would be much, therefore fluctuations of the Field maybe not even noticeable at operating speed (3600 RPM)

So I recommend that you try first at very low RPM'S while feeding primaries, plus use the needle or paperclip trick that MM mentioned before to detect Field Fluctuations.

When you have one brush directly contacting the positive element (peak primary) the second brush is getting both side series windings resistance in parallel at the 180 degrees split...so resistance is even less.

Above are basic points to verify before starting to change or dismiss setups...related to primary secondaries geometries.


Related to NN or NS, it really does NOT MATTER...you will get output either way IF your setup is tuned properly.

Regards


Ufopolitics

[seaad]

Hi Elcheapo , all, look at my thoughts in this post:http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post307838


Quote A comes from Clemente Figuera himself while he was alive 1908. More trustworthy I think.
Quote B and C comes from his partner Buforn later. Maybe not so trustworthy.
Did Buffon understand all the secrets in the Figuera concept or added he some "bogus" statements to the later patents?
Quote B is a tricky one. If true??

Regards Arne

[Ufopolitics]

Hi Ufo,

How much power have you been able to get from your Figuera device? I have just started working with it now that I think I understand the part G. But I also am seeing very low output whether I have the two primary coils aiding or opposing one another. I have some other configurations I want to try but am curious how you have built the primary and secondary coils.

Thanks for anything you want to share,
Carroll

Hello Citfta,

I have built several configurations related to primaries-secondaries...but what I recommend is to make your coils in order that could slide back-forth on core.
The Primaries I built them longer than secondaries, in order that it captures even small fluctuations from primaries to output.
Now, a great starting design would be to build your two primaries thickness (diameter) same diameter as your secondary core (another setup I built where secondary core is greater in diameter than exciter's cores) in order they (primaries) could slide within secondary...this way you could slide the gap between the two primaries without affecting the centering of secondary.
Honestly, on the "typical" OEM Figuera, the way he shows on patent we will not get that much.

Will try to expand further on...got to go...sorry

regards

ufopolitics

[Elcheapo]

Please put your walue in A, B, C according to your opinoin.

C: "meaning when one is at peak, other MUST BE at it lowest potential PLUS NEVER dropping below zero"

Don't we loose opposing force in C ??

Regards Arne

Hi Arne,
Glad to see someone using their brain for a change.
Yes, if you want maximum field strength, then the 2 inductors should be pulsed in unison with both at the same amperage levels.
Of course the poles should be set to N-S .
That way, one side of induced coil will be induced with a positive voltage while the other side gets induced with a negative voltage just like in a regular generator.

Regards
Elcheapo

[citfta]

Hi Ufo,

How much power have you been able to get from your Figuera device? I have just started working with it now that I think I understand the part G. But I also am seeing very low output whether I have the two primary coils aiding or opposing one another. I have some other configurations I want to try but am curious how you have built the primary and secondary coils.

Thanks for anything you want to share,
Carroll

[Ufopolitics]

Thx UFO for your explanation.

Aha, your intrerpetation is that the 'modulation' of the magnetic fields [movement] is ony 20%. Interesting.

According to a previous test of mine I got Zero extra (Ac) output with that principle.

I used a circuit shown in my pic below
and turned the bias so the both low Ac levels to the primary coils where high above zero. Both signal against the output core/ coil where N-N or S-S.

I have earlyer here described that the DC current/ power needed i in that case is far far above the "working/ modulation" power. (3,2W to O.005)

And you can see in the pic that nada extra Watt from the DC input Watt comes out!

Regards Arne

Seaad, sorry but I have no time to start an argument w/ you.
I WROTE IT WAS MM SUGGESTION ABOUT 80%...20% FLUCTUATION
NOW...is that "your Figuera Generator"?..."Arne's Concept"?...
Imagine people who are REALLY REPLICATING FIGUERA ,"AS IS" PER PATENT DESIGN..and they do NOT GET OUTPUT...
Now imagine with your own concepts...

This were exactly SAME ARGUMENTS we have in the past Arne...but NO MORE.

OK?


GOODBYE


Ufopolitics

[seaad]

Thx UFO for your explanation.

Aha, your intrerpetation is that the 'modulation' of the magnetic fields [movement] is ony 20%. Interesting.

According to a previous test of mine I got Zero extra (Ac) output with that principle.

I used a circuit shown in my pic below
and turned the bias so the both low Ac levels to the primary coils where high above zero. Both signal against the output core/ coil where N-N or S-S.

I have earlyer here described that the DC current/ power needed i in that case is far far above the "working/ modulation" power. (3,2W to O.005)

And you can see in the pic that nada extra Watt from the DC input Watt comes out!

Regards Arne

[Ufopolitics]

Please put your walue in A, B, C according to your opinoin.

C: "meaning when one is at peak, other MUST BE at it lowest potential PLUS NEVER dropping below zero"

Don't we loose opposing force in C ??

Regards Arne

Hi Seaad,

Ok, let me see if I understood you well...

On your shown graphic ON LEFT SIDE opposed force, all Inducers are changing EQUALLY into LOW, MEDIUM and STRONG...right?

What happens here is that the Field generated by both exciters would REMAIN RIGHT AT CENTER of INDUCED Core-Coil...The Field would just be weaker, mid or stronger, but it will NOT DISPLACE SPATIALLY through the core axis of the Induced, resulting on a weak spatial change hence poor output induction.

Remember Figuera's words..."mimic how the inductors come and go...(get closer to then get further away) from Induced".

We MUST think, that whether repulse or attract, the FIELD TO OBSERVE is the one created by the result of the TWO EXCITERS FACING EACH OTHER'S INTERACTIONS...and NEVER look at, as separate-independent fields for each exciter....and this is exactly when we succeed.

Now, on RIGHT sequence-column, you are taking the LOW TOO LOW.
The Low Exciter should be NOT TOO CLOSE TO ZERO, but strong enough to allow certain magnetic pressure AGAINST the Higher Exciter.

MM mentioned about an 80% on low side, anything below that, then Higher would prevail, collapsing Induction to high side...or making the FORMED field to displace out of range.

Which means the Fluctuations are somewhere in the 20% range. And this is directly related to the resistance or inductance on part G.


Regards



Ufopolitics

EDIT 1: I want to also add that when we are EQUALLY CHANGING BOTH EXCITERS, like on LEFT IMAGE,

1-We are "stretching" or better said: dilating the COMMON FIELD on LOW
2- On High we are "compacting" COMMON FIELD.
And so on Mid...is no need to explain...HOWEVER THROUGH ALL STEPS, FORMED FIELD REMAINS AT CENTER OF INDUCED CORE.

[seaad]

Please put your walue in A, B, C according to your opinoin.

C: "meaning when one is at peak, other MUST BE at it lowest potential PLUS NEVER dropping below zero"

Don't we loose opposing force in C ??

Regards Arne

[Ufopolitics]

I have also being trying to accommodate the "G" into my understanding of Clemente's generator. When I see parallel output on scope, I see two positive peaks. I am not sure how these merge into one AC waveform. Also, in an AC generator, say with permanent magnets, the change from north to south to north to south, etc happens together. As north starts so too does south. Because the field is wound as one continuous loop. By pulsing in parallel, are we not creating a pulsed DC? It seems to me that the "G" should be wound such as to enable parallel pulses but with different poles. There is only one generator core in Clemente's design, this equals one field for an AC generator. therefore, logic dictates one side of field is North and one side is south. As on the patent.

Have I missed something here?

Great thread

Dwane

Hello Dwane,

Figuera's design uses TWO EXCITERS (inductors or primaries, etc) for ONE INDUCED CORE-COIL sandwiched IN BETWEEN both Exciters ...And so ALL THREE Components form ONE MODULE...which repeats on the 1908 patent...I believe like seven times.

The Two Exciters work in a PUSH-PULL ARRAY and the idea is to form a SINGLE FIELD which SWEEPS (CHANGES) across the core axis of INDUCED OR SECONDARY COIL.

Now, do not get distracted by NN OR SS OR NS...All work as giving an output, Is just the output signal is different for Bucking (repulsing) and for Attracting poles.

So, in order for the exciting, moving virtual, massless field NOT to collapse, nor to LOOSE COMPACTNESS (therefore strength) The signal sent to BOTH EXCITING COILS MUST BE IN UNISON...One OPPOSITE or REVERSE to the other one, but always OFF PHASE, meaning when one is at peak, other MUST BE at it lowest potential PLUS NEVER dropping below zero...and Figuera insists that brush must be contacting TWO COMMUTATOR ELEMENTS in width.

Figuera uses a DC Signal modulated to MIMIC an AC Signal which NEVER reaches negative signals or even zero...as this would COLLAPSE THE INDUCING FIELD, then INDUCED OUTPUT WILL COLLAPSE AS WELL.

Hope is more clear now



Ufopolitics

EDIT1: Note in Citfta's signals they are NOT in parallel but OFF PHASE, in order when one is peak(top) the other one is at bottom (lowest point)...as both are always positive and above zero.

[Ufopolitics]

Okay,

My testing shows this may be a possible way to make a much simpler part G. And it should be very easy to scale this up. I modified a universal motor to give me the opposing sine waves that do NOT go below zero. The following pictures and description should allow anyone to do this without a lot of machining or other expense.

As most of you know a universal motor will run on DC or AC because it has field windings that change polarity in time with the armature windings. By disconnecting the field windings we now have an armature and two brushes. To modify the motor you need to mark where on the output shaft the bearing is sitting. Now take the motor apart and grind a flat side on the shaft that extends beyond the area where the bearing was. How deep you need to grind the flat spot will depend on what gauge wire you are going to use. We are going to run a wire from one of the commutator tabs through one of the slots in the armature and then down to the output shaft and into the flat area you ground on the output shaft. The wire needs to extend well past the bearing area.

After you put some glue similar to Goop or rubber cement on the wire in the flat area then you slide the front of the motor back onto the shaft and bolt the motor back together. The glue is to keep the wire from moving around and rubbing the insulation off the wire in the area of the bearing. You can see how I did this in the picture number 4 if you look closely.

Next you need to make a slip ring of some kind. I used a wooden dowel and my lathe to drill a hole dead center in the dowel that was slightly smaller than the motor shaft. I then turned the outside of the dowel until it was a very snug fit inside a short piece of copper fitting. I put glue on the dowel and then pressed the copper fitting onto the dowel. I then put glue on the motor shaft and inside the dowel and pressed the dowel onto the motor shaft.

After that glue has dried then you need to solder the wire to the side of the copper fitting. I believe you can also see that in one of the pictures. Now you need to make some kind of brush holder to hold a brush that will contact the slip ring you have made. You can see I just took an old broken brush holder from a junk motor and some hot glue and a couple of pieces of wood to make a quick brush holder. Of course something much better made would be necessary for a real part G. This was just a quick and dirty method to test my idea.

To connect this as a part G you would connect you supply lead to the brush holder for the brush going to the slip ring. Then from each of the original brushes you would connect to the two primary coils of your device. I should mention that the original brushes are not connected to anything else once you disconnect them from the original field coils.

Now you just need a way to power your new part G the same as you had to do to the original part G. For my simple tests I just use my portable electric drill. I tightened my chuck up on the end of the motor shaft and then powered it that way.

I have included some pictures of both ends of the motor and also a scope shot of the signals going to each coil. The slower part G turns the less effect it has on the DC voltage. And of course the faster it turns the more effect it has to the point you can actually see the signal go almost to zero just from the inductance effect.

The signal on the scope looks pretty rough with lots of spikes. Obviously the commutator and brushes are not working real well. But this was only a quick and dirty test of my idea. But you can see that you do have two opposing sine waves. Also this was a very cheap little universal motor.

I believe you could scale this up easily by getting something like a treadmill motor. I am pretty sure almost all of them are DC permanent magnet motors. You would have to remove the magnets of course. We don't want a generator. LOL But you would then have a well built part G with precision brushes and commutator. You would only need to be careful building your slip ring and brush holder.

Maybe this simple idea will help some of you that want to work on the Figuera device but were scared off because of the difficulty of building a part G from scratch.

Carroll

Hi Citfta,

That is a much simpler way to achieve the signals!...If you would have made this variation before...It would've save me a lot of hours building my flat fixed commutator and rotating single brush...

Adding to your method that it don't need to be a Universal type motor...but any single brushed (symmetrical or series wound) armature from any DC Motor would work as well...except maybe rewinding it to the operating voltage-amperage specs of your setup...

Unless you want to have a full enclosed core embracing rotating armature in order to keep the field within a closed system...however, you do not mention anything related to that above, except to disconnect stator field coils (magnets)

It would be interesting to get a reading though....from the field coils...while armature is excited and feeding the Figuera Primaries.

Regards and thanks for sharing it.


Ufopolitics

[Dwane]

I have also being trying to accommodate the "G" into my understanding of Clemente's generator. When I see parallel output on scope, I see two positive peaks. I am not sure how these merge into one AC waveform. Also, in an AC generator, say with permanent magnets, the change from north to south to north to south, etc happens together. As north starts so too does south. Because the field is wound as one continuous loop. By pulsing in parallel, are we not creating a pulsed DC? It seems to me that the "G" should be wound such as to enable parallel pulses but with different poles. There is only one generator core in Clemente's design, this equals one field for an AC generator. therefore, logic dictates one side of field is North and one side is south. As on the patent.

Have I missed something here?

Great thread

Dwane

[citfta]

Okay,

My testing shows this may be a possible way to make a much simpler part G. And it should be very easy to scale this up. I modified a universal motor to give me the opposing sine waves that do NOT go below zero. The following pictures and description should allow anyone to do this without a lot of machining or other expense.

As most of you know a universal motor will run on DC or AC because it has field windings that change polarity in time with the armature windings. By disconnecting the field windings we now have an armature and two brushes. To modify the motor you need to mark where on the output shaft the bearing is sitting. Now take the motor apart and grind a flat side on the shaft that extends beyond the area where the bearing was. How deep you need to grind the flat spot will depend on what gauge wire you are going to use. We are going to run a wire from one of the commutator tabs through one of the slots in the armature and then down to the output shaft and into the flat area you ground on the output shaft. The wire needs to extend well past the bearing area.

After you put some glue similar to Goop or rubber cement on the wire in the flat area then you slide the front of the motor back onto the shaft and bolt the motor back together. The glue is to keep the wire from moving around and rubbing the insulation off the wire in the area of the bearing. You can see how I did this in the picture number 4 if you look closely.

Next you need to make a slip ring of some kind. I used a wooden dowel and my lathe to drill a hole dead center in the dowel that was slightly smaller than the motor shaft. I then turned the outside of the dowel until it was a very snug fit inside a short piece of copper fitting. I put glue on the dowel and then pressed the copper fitting onto the dowel. I then put glue on the motor shaft and inside the dowel and pressed the dowel onto the motor shaft.

After that glue has dried then you need to solder the wire to the side of the copper fitting. I believe you can also see that in one of the pictures. Now you need to make some kind of brush holder to hold a brush that will contact the slip ring you have made. You can see I just took an old broken brush holder from a junk motor and some hot glue and a couple of pieces of wood to make a quick brush holder. Of course something much better made would be necessary for a real part G. This was just a quick and dirty method to test my idea.

To connect this as a part G you would connect you supply lead to the brush holder for the brush going to the slip ring. Then from each of the original brushes you would connect to the two primary coils of your device. I should mention that the original brushes are not connected to anything else once you disconnect them from the original field coils.

Now you just need a way to power your new part G the same as you had to do to the original part G. For my simple tests I just use my portable electric drill. I tightened my chuck up on the end of the motor shaft and then powered it that way.

I have included some pictures of both ends of the motor and also a scope shot of the signals going to each coil. The slower part G turns the less effect it has on the DC voltage. And of course the faster it turns the more effect it has to the point you can actually see the signal go almost to zero just from the inductance effect.

The signal on the scope looks pretty rough with lots of spikes. Obviously the commutator and brushes are not working real well. But this was only a quick and dirty test of my idea. But you can see that you do have two opposing sine waves. Also this was a very cheap little universal motor.

I believe you could scale this up easily by getting something like a treadmill motor. I am pretty sure almost all of them are DC permanent magnet motors. You would have to remove the magnets of course. We don't want a generator. LOL But you would then have a well built part G with precision brushes and commutator. You would only need to be careful building your slip ring and brush holder.

Maybe this simple idea will help some of you that want to work on the Figuera device but were scared off because of the difficulty of building a part G from scratch.

Carroll

[bistander]

Variac on DC

https://vimeo.com/178144785

From post #1011 back a few years.

Pretty neat.

bi