Mr Lester J Hendershot's magnetic generator.

[boguslaw]

This is thread related to Edison etheric force. He was not alone to find this. Yes, I believe he found radio waves but it's properties from "near field" or longitudinal waves.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...an-1872-a.html

This is old thread related to Hendershot:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...lications.html

Before you dismiss Edison discovery read carefully what he published as a response to critics. I found it startling, almost thought he lied us.What if not ?

Read the text from picture. More interesting details can be found in Edison papers but it's hard to decode handwritten text.

[GSM]

Aho notes.

http://www.hyiq.org/Library/Downloads/Alex's-Hendershot-Collection/1968_-_Arthur_C._Aho_-_Energy_Unlimited_-_A_Case_for_Space.pdf

[ChrisW]

Cater's device

P.S. You can find a good write-up of Joseph Cater's device in Patrick Kelly's e-book, Chapter 5. http://free-energy-info.co.uk/index.html. It starts on page 138.

[ChrisW]

a starting point?

Graham,

Perhaps as a starting point, you could present all of your "surmisings" (if that's a word!) and thoughts about how the device might work. I think I've presented my case fairly well, and clearly there's lots of room for improvement. I'm so-so in the electronics department, but I don't hold a general class radio license; pretty much everything I know is self-taught.

I don't recall reading anything about the keeper being removed during operation, but it's clearly drawn in nearly all the schematics, hence my question.

There appears to be a great deal of phase shifting taking place, which leaves me wondering if that's how Lester approached this thing ab initio. Add a little inductance here, a little capacitance there, until voltage and current were back in sync, with a power factor pretty close to one. Hmm?

You might try locating Mark, last I heard he was still alive and kicking. From the pictures I last saw back in the mid 90s, I'd say he's probably in his late 40s, maybe even early 50s at present. Best of luck trying to find an original device, however. Mark is probably the ONLY source.

As mentioned, I'd very much enjoy hearing your analysis of the schematics...

Chris

[GSM]

Hi Boguslaw,

I don't think that the Hendershot generator runs at the sort of frequencies associated with spark gap technologies, and it is possible the longitudinal resonance induced within the core could be 30 to 60kHz, so although I suggested a modulated RF generator, it would need to be one running at low RF frequencies, or even be an audio generator having extended HF range. Besides, the TV frame output transformers would still be useful at this sort of frequency, whereas the cores used in mains transformers would be much more lossy.

Also whilst lamps would still run at that frequency your question about other equipment is most valid, because 'no' - a 50-60Hz modulated carrier is quite unlike 50-60Hz mains, and coiled wire heaters might have a self inductance which would effectively reduce their dissipation.

The Thomas Edison observations related to vibration are new to me and likely require further investigation, especially if this related to the vibration of 'magnetic domains'.

Hi Chris.

You know what, I have mused so much about this I find it difficult to find any starting point.

I have not heard of any works by Joseph Cater either, so obviously my studies must continue.

Re the magnet keeper; obviously to maintain maximum field when not in use, for the gap could not have been completely closed during operation.

Also yes, I believe the mass resonance would have been at a carrier frequency, with the those 40uF capacitors able to introduce phase change at such frequency.
Another reason why I think a travelling wave is longitudinally induced within the core is due to the twice phase shifted low impedance outputs of T1/2 being fed to L3 windings with respect to L2 and the single phase shifted drive to L4.

Anyone have an original Hendershot generator I can get my hands on, or even if I might directly question any owner of same to fill in some of the blanks ?

Is Mark Hendershot still alive and amenable to open source questions, for there is no way I would be willing to do this in a non-public way ?
If yes, does Mark communicate via the internet ?

Cheers ............. Graham.

[ChrisW]

modulated 50Hz

Hi boguslaw,

This is exactly the question I brought up to GSM. It's a good question. I don't think the typical power supply (especially one connected to sensitive electronics) would appreciate it. Light bulbs (incandescent, that is), on the other hand, don't give a crap what kind of power you feed them. There are plenty of examples of bulbs glowing on RF power, spikey stuff (Bedini energizers), Tesla coils, and so on.

Could you please post what you have found on the Edison stuff you mentioned. Sounds quite interesting.

Thanks!
Chris

[boguslaw]

It may be crazy idea but Thomas Edison found etheric force working on with vibrator, and his statements were incredible.

Hendershot used something very close, very interesting resemblance...

[boguslaw]

Here is related question which bothers me for a long time but since I don't have much experience with electronics I haven't built any device to proof it yet.

If we have very high frequency AC or DC pulsed current and modulate it to 50Hz would it behave exactly like 50Hz current ? I mean about power transfered to load like resistive electric kettle.

[ChrisW]

getting deeper!

Well, Graham, the well of questions is clearly getting deeper! You've made some interesting points in the prior two posts.

The thin sleeve core is a fascinating idea, since Joseph Cater's device has many such thin cores in its construction. This apparently affects the magnetization curve and so getting the right amount of current flowing through L2 appears critical. Cater used a shorted turn approach, according to the description in his book. If constructed properly, it should be possible to try both methods, shorted and thin gap in the material. I was thinking that something like .002" steel shim material might be a solution. Your thoughts?

The crossed field antenna -- hmm -- this reminds me of Larry Rayburn's TREC device. Your mention of this presents some intriguing thoughts, in light of the L2/L3/L4 arrangement. More food for thought.

As I recall, Lester didn't get around to using the magnetron magnet until quite late in the game, a refinement, if you will. Prior to that, he was using ordinary horseshoe magnets with a keeper across the poles. (Why on earth did he leave the keeper in place, I wonder? Any thoughts on this?)

The modulated carrier idea is a damn good bit of thinking, Graham. Could it be that the buzzer provided the carrier wave, whilst atop it was all the "noise" of the obviously much higher frequency signal of the L2 coils? Was the buzzer operating near 60Hz? It would seem viable, since a mechanical device is limited in frequency. The question now becomes, how would a modulated signal be translated to the load? Is some part of the circuit demodulating and combining the HF energy with the carrier? Would that even be necessary? You're the radio man, so I defer to you on this point.

It would appear some progress is being made -- exciting!

Chris

[GSM]

the magnet

Yet another 'unknown' of the Hendershot generator would relate to the magnets Lester used, for these too have their own internal molecular impedances in series with their electron-spin encapsulated fields, and hence the magnet field would also have been oscillating in tune with the coil assemblies !

What kinds of magnets did Lester use - did he use the magnetron magnet because he knew about its internal mode of balanced oscillation about a central pole ??

Was there ever any indication of whether the output of a Mk3 Hendershot generator was AC or DC ?

So Chris, whilst you might be able to energise Hendershot type coils with a transistor oscillator, I remain convinced that the buzzer generated two frequencies in the form of a modulated carrier, and it is possible that a radio testing bench oscillator offering modulated RF output, with both modulation and RF frequencies being independently tunable, might represent a route for progress by eliminating many unknown buzzer related variables.

Cheers .......... Graham.

[GSM]

sleeve cores

Hi Chris,

That 'steel pipe' is so much more than a former for the capacitor.

I need to say this very clearly to everyone who reads this in order to share experience and understanding.

HF magnetic fields in inductor cores are little different to HF electricity in wires: There is an electron based 'skin effect', due to the 'domain' aligning electrons being intimately related with their parent atoms/ molecules through the body of the material.

At HF a solid high permeability core appears to lose permeability; the effective permeability becomes much less than that specified by the material manufacturer.
This is because a delayed electron spin-wave develops towards the core centre, thus creating an axial field incoherence with respect to the core perimeter.
However, if only a thin sleeve of the material is used near to the energising winding then the HF permeability remains high and the field developed by the thinner core becomes many times greater without need for increased coil energisation !!!!!

Factors which puzzle me about Lester's pipe core are - was it a shorted turn and thus posses characteristics essential to the resonant mode - was it a longitudinally welded pipe - did Lester make a longitudinal cut along it - did its crystalline nature particularly suit this application. ???

Were these coil assemblies something like a 'crossed-field' antenna arrangement ?

And yes - as you say - the third layer within the capacitor could have had a hidden connection not to L1.

Sorry Chris, I appear to be posing more questions than answers.

Yes the buzzer did provide energy, but as I suggested maybe via two modes of physical vibration, and which could not be simulated by a single oscillator, also which could not be imitated unless by full replication of the Hendershot Generator in order to first understand what was really happening, and thus how we might progress.

Morpher on YouTube has already completed many investigations, eg.
Hendershot Fuelless Generator Coil Study - YouTube

Cheers ........... Graham.

[ChrisW]

food for thought...

Greetings Graham,

Well, you've certainly provided plenty of food for thought...

I find that I must take a slightly different approach. It is doubtful at best that any of us could exactly duplicate the device the way Lester created it. Lester himself commented that sometimes he'd get on too many turns, and at other times, too few, and that the device would occasionally "burn up." His son, Mark, apparently tried to duplicate his father's work and never achieved success -- at least not that he's admitted to publically.

Therefore, I would suggest we use our intuition, creativity and modern day knowledge to surmise, quite logically, how the device likely works.

First, would you concur that adding a bit of fresh energy, via the "magnetic buzzer," as you call it, at each half of the sine wave passing through it, would, over many cycles (especially in a resonant circuit) build to a substantial voltage and current being "sloshed" between the two L2s?

If so, then the idea of a small, battery powered transistor circuit to inject such energy into the circuit would suffice to prove the concept.

As for the steel pipe, I think it's safe to say that we'll never know, unless Mark can shed some insight on it. Recall that Lester had also tried a tin can (a coffee can, if memory serves me) which turned out to be inadequate. While it's possible that he was trying for a central magnetic core, it's equally possible, if not likely, that it served only to support the hand-wound capacitor. Why would he go to all the trouble of winding an air core, basket weave inductor, only to change it's resonant frequency with a bit of steel pipe or other ferrous material?

The way C1 was built is indeed intriguing. As I recall, the middle layer (plate) was split in half lengthwise, with a gap between them. That makes me think that he was getting a voltage increase (polarity?) by the charge moving from the larger plate to the smaller one. The schematics indicate a typical, two wire connection to L1, but my intuition tells me otherwise. Presently however, I haven't a clue how he might have wired it.

Again, I believe that if we can enumerate certain likely characteristics, and test them in practice, we'll gain a much better understanding of this little beast.

Chris

[GSM]

Hi Chris,

Good to hear of your motivation, been so involved with other everyday home/family matters here.

I think Lester had a very deep but highly individual understanding of his circuit. He tuned by intuition, ear and feeling, as described when squeezing the coil assembly to peak output. Likely he sensed coil assembly vibration, and this is what makes me think he understood the phonic aspects of magnetic cores.
Surface phonon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Okay - Transistor oscillator ?
Lester's magnetic buzzer was also a series inductance part of the circuit, and we do not know the induced current/voltage phase relationship, so to preserve circuit action any SS generator output might need to be applied to an equivalent series inductance.
If the buzzer ran at an audio frequency then there would not be any problem mechanically driving a core within a solenoid and close to a magnet by using a sine generator and audio amplifier with separate driving solenoid.
However, since the 1927 version Lester had been using cores as electromechanical resonators, and I feel it likely that his L1/ C1 had been tuned to the longitudinal resonance of the buzzer cores. I also feel that the longitudinal resonance of the steel L1 cores had been directly related to the buzzer core, with clamp tuning being significant here too; maybe even L1 core resonant half frequency so that the buzzer cores were second harmonic resonant to L1 ?
If this had been the case then a second oscillator would be necessary to set up all necessary vibration modes related to the composite magnetic buzzer/ coil assembly, for clearly there was so much more going on here than is simplistically observable from the sum of the parts !

Regarding the L1 coils, it is the steel pipe core that has me puzzled; ie, the type of steel and where to obtain same.

Regarding the thought of L1-4/ C1 'winding-to-capacitor' coupling: There were different voltages between windings and opposite voltages at winding ends. Also C1 is a curious rolled design having an unconnected intermediate layer, the action of which I do not understand other than its potential for introducing a reactive delay.

Cheers ............... Graham.

[boguslaw]

Are you sure that Hendershot and Hubbard devices were different ?

[ChrisW]

Moving ahead

Greetings Graham,

I would not discount the possibilites of such phenomena occurring in the device, though I can hardly imagine that Lester could have known or even imagined such concepts in his time.

I would concur that time is short and that we MUST develop a workable device quickly, even if it only exists as a proof of concept.

I suspect that with our combined intuitive and cognitive abilities, we can achieve this goal. Are you up for this?

The most tenuous part of the circuit is the magnetic section, thus I would suggest we design a temporary, battery-powered substite that would emit a properly timed pulse of the appropriate polarity. I envision this as a small transistor circuit powered by a pair of AA batteries. From there, we can explore the oscillator.

I happen to have two basket weave coils, constructed of 18AWG, with nearly identical inductance readings. As well, I have two 24V/3A tranformers which should serve adequately as Lester's 1:5 transformers. Further, I have several 80uF and 40uF capacitors rated at 450 volts, and they fairly well matched. So, as you see, I have come rather well prepared.

I look forward to your reply....

Chris