Mr Lester J Hendershot's magnetic generator.

[GSM]

Hi thx1138.

Thank you for your last post - I'll reply shortly.

Before I continue, I wish to first mention something I do not wish to become a part of this thread, and it relates to many YouTube reports in some parts of the United States over the last two days, this being falls of fake (polymer based) snow.
Do Internet searches about it. Kids can buy it. Some versions will chemically take up 500X water to the fundamentally active microscopic white powder particles. It does not "thaw" like real snow either.
Now we've all seen un-naturally spreading jet trails up in the sky along flight paths not always at heights or directions of those having flight controlled commercial pemits.
Well I was found unconcious and hospitalised with a serious "kidney infection" during Nov2013, and coincidentally there was a "snowball" in my closed back garden which took about 10 days to disappear even though temperatures were nowhere near freezing. After examining it and realising it was NOT SNOW I stayed well clear, but at that time I was not aware of the existence of fake snow polymers, nor the directly related possibilities now being observed in the USA.
A parallel aspect relates to our mains tap water, for we have distilled all of our drinking water for more than four years without problems. However in Nov2013, just before I found the polymer type "snowball", I noticed this off-white creamy gunge in the bottom of the distiller. It looked as if a bacterial or fungus like sponge, except this was after the tap water had been boiled off at 100'C !
I complained to the Water Board. They took the gunge away for analysis and promised a phone call to let me know what they found.
No reply = no surprise !
There will not be any follow up from me either because I realise that microscopic polymers raining or snowing out of weather controlled clouds is way beyond anything the water boards can control.
My metabolism has still not yet fully recovered from the truly shocking hit I experienced, and I can now imagine wider polymer related damage to our environment and all life within it (human mental capabilities especially) arising via those "authorities" who give themselves rights to act in totally un-natural ways.
See here what I did not drink !
Got yourselves a water distiller yet ?

[thx1138]

Hi thx1138.

I did not reply to your Double Coil Relay contribution because I was not sure why you had included it, and I was not going to make any assumptions.

Sorry, but I missed this one earlier. Remove the vertical magnet between the coils and what remains is a pivoting armature above two coils wound to have opposite polarities.

These devices actually exist and come from pay phones. The coils are triggered to direct the coin to the hopper or the return tray in the pay phone. So maybe LJH wasn't using ringer coils at all but one of these devices with the central magnet removed.
Antique Telephone History Website

Figure 1 at that page shows a drawing of the entire device and figures 2a, 2b, and 2c show that the magent should be easily removable.

[pjotterkjen]

MK1/2 considerations

The ring magnets that I have are 2 3/4" x 1 1/4" x 1/2" not big enough, the ID is a little narrow. The only reason I have not placed a ring magnet inside coil a/b is because I am have a mental problem with the weight of those magnets. The size your suggesting will almost consume the entire space within the coils. I build a/b in a basket weave (not honeycomb) and combined them on the same form (both coils interleaved together) with a 3" dia. it leaves no room for any ring magnet.

OK, I see your point. The weight would be an issue if you consider that it was built in a model airplane. While you are considering double height, I'm considering a total height of only 2-2.5" here. Let's make it 2" height.

IMO the ID of 2.5" should leave enough room to fit in some small coils, but well I'll have to find out at the bench. We know that Major Lanphier stated the first device he witnessed had a ring magnet smaller than 3", but we don't know that for sure. So the OD may well have been a bit more, say 3.5". Then, an ID of 3" would have more space available of course.

However, if coil a/b were 2 separate coils, one inside the other the height would be 1/2 the size and the combined coil could sit on the ring magnet. One of the combinations of coil design was to make the dual coil in a basket weave layer but honeycomb together to overlap the field that could be generated. There are just so many things to try.

If I remember well your pictures, you built a basket coil where two coils are on top of each other. But in the drawings these two coils a/b are on top of each other. The airplane picture does not indicate much height too.

So in the end we'll only need a ring magnet that's about 2-2.5" high. Still the weight could of course be a problem - if building it as an energy source for a model airplane - but I'm not worried about that for the moment as I'm concentrated on the how to make it oscillate mystery.

I am still not sure about the ring magnet on the MK1. At the air force base where the construction was be made the MK2 was the model. Besides the new coils within coil a/b all the other parts were the same as MK1. We are still missing something. The 3" dia coil a/b that I made is only 2" in height, your ring magnet would be taller than the coil. I don't need to copy the MK1/2 I want to understand and just make something work. If the ring magnet will do the trick I am good with that.

According to what I've read, both the MK1 and MK2 were shown at the Selfridge Field; we also know the ring magnet was at least in one of them and I think that would be the MK2 design, where energy was generated in all (I assume horizontal) directions. Major Lanphier confirms having seen a ring magnet too.

We may still be missing things, yes. But we're also getting closer.

Now pay attention to this. I remember having seen a youtube video from a user Magnetflipper, he shows us what he calls the Magnetic Vortex Spinner. See it here: MAGNETIC VORTEX SPIN its against the LAW built by Magnetflipper Sept. 2011 - YouTube

This rotating effect is exactly what Hendershot must have been exploiting while trying to invent a better compass, and then while testing with devices based on the Earth Inductor Compass, he lliterally stumbled upon the effect that the two windings armature must have started spinning without applying any external energy source... so then he got excited and thus changed plans and started his MK1 device.

Looking at the video again, I was struck by the resemblance of the copper blades when comparing them with the two copper windings inside the Earth Inductor Compass.

The Utility Engines article I referred earlier to, which is a document hard to comprehend and mixes up several devices, refers also to these windings rotation and *short-cut* on each side... this is the same case as in the video!

The same document states that the ring magnet and the two wound coils around it (no on it) were only necessary to 'sensitize' the inner windings and get the thing spinning. So this ring magnet later disappeared when Hendershot invented slowly the MK3 design, but then again I could be mistaken. Whatever he did in between we'll never know.

OK. So to continue, whatever you may try to explain the spinning effect - whether it is a magnetic vortex spin or not - there is a resulting force on each of the four blades that amplify the others, and this results in a spin with considerable speed.

We'll need to take this to the MK1/2 devices somehow. Hendershot found a way to not use the rotating inner two windings and commutator... but used instead a set of coils and cores positioned in such a way that somehow inside coil #008 a/b a spinning magnetic field was generated. In this sense, maybe the collector #001 and wire #005 were still necessary to start the magnetic oscillation (and thus not a distraction). This oscillation having a positive feedback by the other components used.

So I'm convinced having found some basic principle to work from, by looking at specific parts of the device, and trying to reason why those parts are actually in the device.

I'd say let the adventure continue!

[GSM]

Hi Mike and pjotterkjen,

I recon coils 008a-b won't work with a large metal, field shunting, ring magnet closely inside of them. A lesser diameter might shunt less but would the overall field polarisation be correct ?

However a larger sized axial field polarising ring magnet external to the coils and close to one end - as a unidirectional Earth field substitute - might have been a possibility concealed within Lester's Mk2 model aeroplane.

Also there is no reason why we should not be able to drill apart older type loudspeaker ring magnets, or fabricate our own with iron/steel wire/rings either side of tiny neody magnets circumferentially spaced.

Cheers ............... Graham.

[mikec_ut]

...
First of all I agree the working of the device is not what it at first seems the most logical explanation. The collector being the main distraction. In my opinion, this small plate does nothing more than shield the underlying components, and may pick up some very small signals to input to coil #006. But that's not the case. After having read other information, it becomes clear that the oscillation starts because of the special arrangements of coil #008 a/b and coil #006. Most likely the oscillation process is positively influenced by coil #004 / soft iron core #003, coils #013 and #015 with soft iron cores #014 and #016 together with resistor #017, and resonator #002.

Wire #005 and collector #001 are - in my opinion - an added distraction. The mystery is around #008 a/b and coil #006. A ring magnet must be added to the build. A big one that fits inside coil #008 a/b (3'' outer diameter, 2.5'' inner diameter, 2-2.5'' thickness, preferably alnico 5, polarization either diametrically or radial). Did you do that mikec_ut or are you planning to?

...

Finally, the coils a/b are part of the mystery to solve here. They must be wounded in a special way, possibly honeycomb, or basket, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are wound using a combination or even a different method.
This is why I'm going to concentrate around this part of the MK1/2 device and am sure to find out some real interesting stuff when I'm finally at the bench, testing.

@pjotterkjen
The ring magnets that I have are 2 3/4" x 1 1/4" x 1/2" not big enough, the ID is a little narrow. The only reason I have not placed a ring magnet inside coil a/b is because I am have a mental problem with the weight of those magnets. The size your suggesting will almost consume the entire space within the coils. I build a/b in a basket weave (not honeycomb) and combined them on the same form (both coils interleaved together) with a 3" dia. it leaves no room for any ring magnet.

However, if coil a/b were 2 separate coils, one inside the other the height would be 1/2 the size and the combined coil could sit on the ring magnet. One of the combinations of coil design was to make the dual coil in a basket weave layer but honeycomb together to overlap the field that could be generated. There are just so many things to try.

I am still not sure about the ring magnet on the MK1. At the air force base where the construction was be made the MK2 was the model. Besides the new coils within coil a/b all the other parts were the same as MK1. We are still missing something. The 3" dia coil a/b that I made is only 2" in height, your ring magnet would be taller than the coil. I don't need to copy the MK1/2 I want to understand and just make something work. If the ring magnet will do the trick I am good with that.

[pjotterkjen]

great info on grinding & cutting tools - precautions

A couple of links follow... (see original post)

Once again thx1138, thanks for the info. Looks very doable. But first I'll have to get my hands on some ring magnets.

And yes, the powder that comes from permanent magnets especially neos can be really dangerous, so we need to take our precautions.

[pjotterkjen]

Possible working of MK1/2

Just a thought on the MK1-2 design. The patent writer was the one that labeled all of the components but I think the operation is backwards. From the components associated with coil #8 it feeds backwards to the end coil and works up to coil #4 which draws in the flapper that breaks the oscillation that will allow it to restart. I am still not sure how all of these components work together but if we can break them down part by part it might become clear.

I originally wanted to your comment mikec_ut on the above, but forgot about it, so I'm here with some more specific thoughts on the MK1/2 designs, trying to break down the different parts.

First of all I agree the working of the device is not what it at first seems the most logical explanation. The collector being the main distraction. In my opinion, this small plate does nothing more than shield the underlying components, and may pick up some very small signals to input to coil #006. But that's not the case. After having read other information, it becomes clear that the oscillation starts because of the special arrangements of coil #008 a/b and coil #006. Most likely the oscillation process is positively influenced by coil #004 / soft iron core #003, coils #013 and #015 with soft iron cores #014 and #016 together with resistor #017, and resonator #002.

Wire #005 and collector #001 are - in my opinion - an added distraction. The mystery is around #008 a/b and coil #006. A ring magnet must be added to the build. A big one that fits inside coil #008 a/b (3'' outer diameter, 2.5'' inner diameter, 2-2.5'' thickness, preferably alnico 5, polarization either diametrically or radial). Did you do that mikec_ut or are you planning to?

Also, the resonator is in my opinion nothing more than an audible indication to indicate oscillation was coming up. But it may also add to the oscillation feedback when touching the core #003 and this way changing the core's magnetic field. Again, this also should be included in the bench testing.

Finally, the coils a/b are part of the mystery to solve here. They must be wounded in a special way, possibly honeycomb, or basket, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are wound using a combination or even a different method.
This is why I'm going to concentrate around this part of the MK1/2 device and am sure to find out some real interesting stuff when I'm finally at the bench, testing.

[pjotterkjen]

From before MK1 to MK3

Just a thought on the MK1-2 design. The patent writer was the one that labeled all of the components but I think the operation is backwards. From the components associated with coil #8 it feeds backwards to the end coil and works up to coil #4 which draws in the flapper that breaks the oscillation that will allow it to restart. I am still not sure how all of these components work together but if we can break them down part by part it might become clear.

Great to see some response of you mikec_ut, hope you now have some time to join the club here and help make progress.

I, like you, am concentrated on the MK1 devices, am still in the process of getting my first materials, but in the meantime have gathered a pretty good understanding of how Hendershot came to the MK designs.

First of all, there has been some confusion about his first devices being a motor or a generator. According to my findings, he has done both things. We know he started out with the Earth Inductor Compass. That is where he got inspired to invent and build a compass that would indicate true North (not the mangetic North).

So the next thing he did was to take a ring magnet, and placed this magnet around the coil armature that he had made according to the one inside an at that time available Earth Inductor Compass (see for reference patent 1047157 of Donald Bliss, 1912).

According to a document I found and which I'm still studying (Utility Engines, "The secret of the Hendershot Motor", you can find it here Lester J. Hendershot : Generator & Motor, he then wound two coils around that ring magnet. The polarization of the magnet is not mentioned, could either be radial or diametrically, if it was diametrically then the flux-gate effect would be present, if radial then I think the natural magnetic field of the earth would be too weak to influence the inner magnetic field at all, but anyways both should be tested.

This ring magnet with its two coils wound in opposite way to the inner windings (whatever that exactly may mean, I don't know yet) was applied an pulsating signal to start the armature spinning. The circuit shown shows a spark gap being used. Once the motor was running the pulsating signal was not needed anymore. We have seen this type of electrical circuit 'ignition' used in many other inventions. The document also mentioned there were copper cores inside the windings, this to enable the continuous rotation of the inner armature. So the inner magnetic field must have been a circulating field, initiated by the puls on the coils of the ring magnet, and from there a sustaining oscillating field resulted.

So I guess when Hendershot built his first device is was actually a motor, but a self running one (at that time he already had changed his focus from the true north compass to the self-running motor). I recall having read that in the small airplane model he built for his little son there was a swith and when he turned it on, the motor started running.

However, this model was not shown at the Selfridge Field, since Major Lanphier stated to NYT reporters that the device was not a motor but a generator. So from this information, I guess that Hendershot, having seen the possibility of being able to self-run a small motor, started to build his next device, and wanted to use the concept of the ring magnet but wanted to see if the energy could be harvested through using fixed components. He thought building a generator would serve more purposes. He was a true inventor and had the ability to build on his experiences.

So then he started to place coils and cores, and built his next device, also being a model airplane generator device, with the airplane motor as the load. This was demoed at the Selfridge Field. And that device was replicated by technicians at the field under Hendershot's instructions, without him actually building anything. And it worked.

Then the trouble came for Hendershot. He was not able to publicly expose his devices and findings, something that happened to a lot of other wonderful inventors. But he continued to improve on the device. We'll never know how he got to the MK3 designs, a device that according to Arthur Aho could work with several different specifications, and I believe that to be true.

It was actually a long time, from 1928 until around 1958, that's three decades, really a long time, so realizing this we should all be prepared to invest some considerable time in this project if we want to succeed.

A last note... what we can see from the MK1/2 device is the coil #008 a/b has evolutionized into MK3's two cap-coils. The resonator #002 has become the buzzer. The addition of capacitors with high value was because some means of buffering or storing electrical energy was necessary, and finally to make positive feedback possible so to oscillate the device.

So yes the adventure is continuing, hopefully you guys and many others stick around because together we make at least a small genius.

[mikec_ut]

Thanks for your reply pjotterkjen.

I wonder if Lester might have pulsatilely transduced 'earth field' in his Mk1 at his higher frequency by using iron cored wire for his 008A-B coils, though of course a ring magnet could have been used in association with copper wire there as well for say the Mk2. MikeC, any ideas ?

I find this so very difficult to get my mind around .............

Cheers ........... Graham.

@Graham
I have been busy trying to wrap up 3 other projects. If my memory serves me the MK2 version used a ring magnet in combination with a small flapper of some type to get the oscillation going. (have not had time to figure this out yet). But the MK1 version used a magnetic core in one of the coils within coil 008A/B. This coil when energized would neg-gate the permanent magnet within the coil but when the electromagnet was released the additive effect of the coil and permanent magnet would keep the oscillation going. (have not had time to figure this out yet)

I did not consider iron core wire. I believe it was stated that the basket weave coil (#008) was insulated wire not magnet wire (enamel coated). This could indicate that the wire was different than copper but on the other hand copper wire was every where. In all of the research I have not found any circuits from that period of time that used iron core wire. I need to do more research to give a better answer.

Just a thought on the MK1-2 design. The patent writer was the one that labeled all of the components but I think the operation is backwards. From the components associated with coil #8 it feeds backwards to the end coil and works up to coil #4 which draws in the flapper that breaks the oscillation that will allow it to restart. I am still not sure how all of these components work together but if we can break them down part by part it might become clear.

I am not one that responses much, too busy on many projects but I do scan the forums very often. The Mk3 is very interesting. I found out about Hendershot after seeing the schematic of his MK3 design. It looked very familiar to me but I couldn't remember from where. I finally found the familiar connection. I have had in my possession a unfinished doc from Ed Skilling and had no connection to Hendershot. Doc:
"Electorstatic Power Generator
An electric charge that is resident in an electric field experiences a force of repulsion or attraction depending on the nature of the charge. A high quantity of potential energy is prevalent in all matter on this planet. These microwatts of power are in constant motion between masses of mater in a attempt to neutralize to a balanced state. This motion between bodies of matter creates an electrostatic charged field. Example: The charge between storm clouds and earth, resulting in lightning flashes.
The principle of power generation is this disclosure is based upon the electrostatic principles as described above and upon a hypothesis that by the rapid charging and discharging (kilo megacycles) of these minute power pulses the energy is stored by conventional electronic components and released at a usable rate.
The generator consists of two basic parts, (I) Collector, (II) Translator.
1. Collection
The collector consists of two plates of dissimilar material separated by a dielectric material. Adjacent to and in direct contact with on of the plates is a multi turn coil of insulated wire which serves as the secondary of an air wound transformer. A primary coil is wound around the outside diameter of the secondary and this coil is connected to the plates of the collector capacitor.
High voltage at low current charges the plates of the capacitor.
page 1"

This is all of the doc that I have except a schematic that has been shown many times on this forum as the original Hendershot diagram, with the 40 and 80 microfarad capacitors, etc. But on my copy is many hand written notes by Ed Skilling that indicates it working is some kind of form resulting in a fried 40 microfarad capacitor near coil L2 on the schematic. This schematic was dated Oct. 26, 1958 and signed by ED Skilling done on Sunday form 11:30 til 2:30 pm. The title note states "75 watt output (with comment) Meter read 110 volt AC after 3min drop to 90 volts and capacitor starts boiling"

I hope this brings happiness to all - it really does work but I just don't know how! This is why I wanted to start with the MK1.

The adventure continues.

[pjotterkjen]

Capacitors not correct

Yes, Graham, I noticed the capacitors used, clearly not correct, but the author does acknowledge it and we should only take from this article what we can use, of course, to progress.

This may well be the reason why the builder's device failed to start oscillating... I think it is worth a try to follow the build but use the Aho device / crusty circuit and yes craft those difficult to make capacitors.

[GSM]

Not so long ago I posted about a Hendershot Generator 'kit' for about $500 on e-bay.
This article uses the exact same parts.

The kit had wrong value electrolytics, and the cores were without foil tuning capacitors.
The central magnetic assembly here also looks completely different.

Cheers ............ Graham.

[pjotterkjen]

fractal exercise on Hendershot's geometry

A fractal exercise on Hendershot's geometry:

Hendershot

Most interesting information, who's work is this?
I guess the MK3 replicators got something interesting to chew on, and hopefully give this Hendershot mystery finally some real progress...!

[Beamgate]

A fractal exercise on Hendershot's geometry:

Hendershot

[GSM]

You mention using iron wire, I assume without using a ring magnet? The iron would serve as a soft iron core, while the MK1/2 had a permanent ring magnet... I'm not sure how to interpret the idea technically, but of course it can always be tested. I'll see if I can get some suitable iron wire as well.

Thanks for your reply pjotterkjen.
I can't help but think it essential we think in ways quite different to those in which we have been 'educated' via school-college science books-labs.

I wonder if Lester might have pulsatilely transduced 'earth field' in his Mk1 at his higher frequency by using iron cored wire for his 008A-B coils, though of course a ring magnet could have been used in association with copper wire there as well for say the Mk2. MikeC, any ideas ?

The magnet-coil axes we have read about within the different illustrated Hendershot oscillator assemblies positioned centrally inside of the 008 coils, were all normal to the 008 coil axes, and thus not directly related to inducable 008 field reversals.
Could 'Core4' have been related to reversing the polarised (energised) 008 coil fields ?

I find this so very difficult to get my mind around .............

Cheers ........... Graham.

[pjotterkjen]

Magnetic lines of force / iron wire

We often see lines of force drawn around magnets, but those "field lines" apply only to the detector describing them.
There are no lines of force until a magnetic material translates them, and these can change in relation to the shape and type of material involved.

In this regard I should like to chuck an idea into the circle; this being that iron wire could have been used for the Mk1 aeroplane basket coils, thus possibly being self cored and earth polarised inductors.

Cheers ............... Graham.

Of course, lines of force do not exists, they are only an indication of direction in the case you place a small compass needle in a specific point, for example. It is a visual representation, easy for the mass to learn.

We also know these lines change when other materials are placed near them, being materials that can influence - attract or repel - the existing magnetic field. Gary Wesley's experiments are very interesting in getting a grip on how different fields interact.

We also know that a magnetic field is a result of magnet domains (groups of atoms) being aligned through some heating and cooling process under the influence of an external magnetic field, whatever the polarization might have been. The combined atom spins add to each other and create the resulting magnetic field.

You mention using iron wire, I assume without using a ring magnet? The iron would serve as a soft iron core, while the MK1/2 had a permanent ring magnet... I'm not sure how to interpret the idea technically, but of course it can always be tested. I'll see if I can get some suitable iron wire as well.