Mr Lester J Hendershot's magnetic generator.

[thx1138]

Parts Sources

I found some U.S. sites for parts. Search "vintage coffee cans" and "vintage telephones" for references in your country.

Phone Co, Inc.
antique coffee cans

I still haven't found any magnets like those shown but have found some arc magnets that are magnetized through the circumference with 2" O.D., 1" I.D., 1" thick, and 30 degrees arc. Three of those would make a 90 degree arc for each end. So we would need 6 of them. They are Neodymium Iron Boron Magnets (NdFeB) Grade 52.
Arc Magnets

Using 2 magnets 1" X 1" X 1" between the two arcs would give us roughly the magnets shown in the pictures. The following link is to NdFeB, Grade 52 magnets of that size.
1 X 1 X 1 NdFeB, Grade 52

I suspect that being neodymium, they will be much stronger than those used originally because neodymium wasn't developed until 1982 but maybe that would only change the position of the neutral line. I don't remember seeing anything about the Gauss or Tesla of the magnets used originally. I'm clueless about other affects the stronger magnets might have. Maybe higher voltages and/or currents?

I haven't heard back from Belden about the thickness of the wire insulation in the 30's to 50's. At this point, I'm not expecting to hear back from them. Does anyone have a friend that does antique radio restoration that might have some of that old wire that could be measured?

[thx1138]

Materials

Make yourself a copy of this in case it disappears.
http://library.liberaenergio.org/fil...t_in_Farbe.doc
There had been an English version but it has disappeared.

I have a copy. I ran the text through google translate to get the English.

Were the capacitors cut open to wind C1 and C2 really 40+80uF as stated ?

I think different caps were used to make C1 and C2 than were used for the others.

Were 40+80uF electrolytics actually available in 1930 ?

I don't have a clue but I would think pretty much anything would be available with military connections.

The dual caps available today are mostly used for motors. I guess start/run caps. But I just don't find those values. I see 80+? uF but the ? is usually low like maybe up to 12uF or so and below. I just don't see 80+40uF. These caps are AC caps and the materials list in the "From The Archives Of Lester J. Hendershot.pdf" document says non-polarized. The schematic, however, shows plus signs. The AC motor start/run caps of today have 3 terminals on top. I'm wondering if the plus signs on the schematic were just to distinguish the non-common terminals rather than polarity. I think the question here would be how are dual caps made? Are they concentric or stacked vertically. If they are concentric that may have some property that is needed.

2. The 20 AWG insulated solid wire is specified as copper in the materials list but not on the schematic so I think that answers that question. I have a request in to Belden to see if they have a historian that might answer the insulation thickness question. Another source might be someone who restores military equipment, be it aircraft, truck, tank, whatever. I think this is important since the insulation thickness will determine the conductor spacing and so affect the inductance of the coils. The lower coils are specified as enamel copper. So why use something different for the upper coils unless it is to get conductor spacing? I think the insulation material doesn't matter that much as long as we get the spacing correct.

I did a comparison between the wire and the dowels in a couple of the photos and, assuming the dowel is 0.125 (1/8"), the O.D. of the wire appears to be 0.080" ot 0.100". Today's Belden solid insulated wire is 0.066".

3. Does anyone know specifically what type of material was used in the U shaped magnet , i.e. AlNiCo, Samarium Cobalt, etc? I saw somewhere that it was from a radar magnetron.

I've done a bit of research on this and I don't think the magnet is samarium just because it is so hard to work with. I haven't seen any shape in samarium other than square or round. I'm leaning away from the radar magnetron magnet because all of the ones I've seen so far are C shaped, not U shaped. I guess the ends of the C could be cut off to make a U and the one in the Hendershot_in_Farbe.doc document shows scratching around the ends but the armature covers the ends where it may have been cut so I can't tell if it was cut or not. Right now I'm leaning toward AlNiCo.

5. Since today's iron mostly has some carbon in it I'm wondering if it would be better to use Paul Babcock's idea of using steel bird shot to make the iron bar or if anyone has a source for the kind of iron needed.

This is a stumbling block for me too.
Actually I believe Lester's successful originals worked because his tin can sleeve cores were of very old fashioned rolled steel quite unlike the modern stuff. I have been wondering whether something like steel mending plates could be used for the armature, these typically being available in 100mm and 150mm lengths.

I have some old metal coffee cans but they aren't that old. The ones I have have indentions pressed into them around the circumference to make them stronger so they don't crush as easily in shipping. I would think that would have had an effect on the magnetic field but don't know if the older ones had those indentions.

I'm also thinking we might get old style steel from military equipment restorers or old buildings with metal frames being demolished. I also thought about cast iron wood burning stove (I have one) and as a last resort go to a blacksmith. They would know all there is to know about iron.

6. I'm looking for 30's, 40's, 50's telephones to get the ringer coils. Does anyone have a source for those parts or today's equivalent?

It is my feeling that the sort of bell coils he used were from a large double bell outdoor ringer, and not the fine wire telephone line powered types.

The wire on these coils shown in the Hendershot_in_Farbe-En.doc document looks fairly fine to me. I think I'll give that a try if I can locate the coils.

7. I saw the AHO notes about sealing the L4 cap-coil with parafin. Does that have any electret properties? I've seen electrects made of combinations of waxes over metal and was wondering if any of that info applies in the Hendershot device.

I don't think that there was any other reason than keeping everything correctly aligned, plus rendering the core-cap value adjustable via clamping.

Agree. It's pretty obvious that it was applied after the coil-cap was built and I don't see running 20kV or more through those coils to get the electret effect and risk detroying the coil after construction.

I'll be out of town for a week or so. I have no internet connection out at my rural property so I'll get back to this when I return. I might be able to locate a farrier out there who would know about iron. Maybe we'll used a straightened out lucky horseshoe for the armature

[GSM]

Don't forget that inventors of yesteryore will specify components that were then available.

Sometimes, nowadays, better ones are in stock but sometimes the originals had some strange property that was essential.

Paul-R

Hi Paul,

Back in the mid '60s I used to repair old radios, wherein *electrolytic* capacitor constructions prior to WW2 were always in rectangular cardboard block exterior, or tubular card covered forms.
Pre WW2 HT electrolytic values also tended to be 1uF, 2uF, 4uF, 8uF and 16uF, and not in bare aluminium cans.
File:PaperElectrolyticCapacitors.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Additionally I suggest that the Pyramid capacitors used by Lester were ones known by him through his US AF work, when the development of electrolytic type capacitor became accelerated due to WW2 war efforts, and values like 40uF and 80uF were probably required by tech specifying back room military engineers.

As you say Paul - "inventors of yesteryore will specify components that were then available".

Hence I conclude that Hendershot's Magnatronic Generator was NOT made before the end of WW2, and quite likely not demonstrated until after Lester's $25,000 - 20 year agreement to remain silent about his first construction expired circa 1950.

Lester also used 1lb. WW2 > 1950's coffee cans as his sleeve cores, and I don't think these were available in the 1930's either.

Regarding the other part of your comment Paul - "but sometimes the originals had some strange property that was essential".

Early electrolytics had to be 'formed' by slowly increasing an HT potential, and then once formed they had a strange C x V product characteristic whereby they had increased C value if operated at a voltage less than the 'rated' one at which they were formed.
Whether this applied to the Pyramid capacitor types used by Lester I do not know; I suspect not.

You likely also realise that when DC polarised electrolytics are used in an AC circuitry they become non-linearly leaky, such that their true equivalence when using genuine AC capacitors would be like having a series diode and resistor connected in parallel.
Thus it might be important to additionally note not only coil and transformer phasing, but the '+' and '-' capacitor connections from the photographs of any once working equipment.
I do know there is mention of capacitors overheating from within the Hendershot notes.


Cheers ............... Graham.

[GSM]

I'm trying to locate materials to build the Hendershot device shown on PDF page 45 of "From The Archives Of Lester J. Hendershot".
I have some questions:

1. I'm not able to locate the dual 40-80 MFD, 450V caps so I'll just use separate caps with those ratings. Is that probably the reason that different photos show a different number of caps. I'm thinking the photos showing 3 caps are actually 3, 40 uF caps, with 2 in parallel to make the 80uF one. Is that right?


Correct.
Make yourself a copy of this in case it disappears.
http://library.liberaenergio.org/fil...t_in_Farbe.doc
There had been an English version but it has disappeared.

Were the capacitors cut open to wind C1 and C2 really 40+80uF as stated ?
There was one long foil plus two half size ones, more likely meaning that particular component originally had equal value sections as used to be used with tube rectifiers and choke HT smoothing !

Another point needs to be questioned here -
Were 40+80uF electrolytics actually available in 1930 ?
I worked with many old radios and never came across anything so large in value that long ago. 32 to 50 uF singles were likely the limit of what was available until after WW2; NOT 120uF in one can.


2. The drawing specifies "20 AWG Insulated Solid" for L1 and L2. Should these be copper? It doesn't say. Does anyone have insulated 20 AWG from the 50's or know where to find specs of that era? I'm wondering about the insulation thickness since it will affect the spacing between the wires. They didn't have the plastics back then that we have today so I'm wondering what the insulation was made of and how thick it was. I saw in one of the documents it was "Belden" wire and they still make it today but it uses plastic insulation. The reason I ask is that I recently replaced some wire going to a well pump that was installed in the mid 70's and it had some kind of rubber insulation and a #10 wire was roughly 1/4" outside diameter - much larger than today's plastic insulation.


Military and aircraft cables are like those used by Lester, and maybe similar is still available via CPC, Farnell, RS etc.
I have used solid core lower voltage rated Kaptan, Kynar and Teflon insulated, but these can be hard to source in all gauges. As you have found, most other wires have either thicker insulation or are stranded.


3. Does anyone know specifically what type of material was used in the U shaped magnet , i.e. AlNiCo, Samarium Cobalt, etc? I saw somewhere that it was from a radar magnetron. Has anyone been able to confirm that it was or was not from a radar unit? That's an interesting question regarding LJH's working with the air force in the ealy days. Of course radar wasn't developed until the 40's but that is one of those coincidences that kind of jumps out at me.

4. Some drawings and photos show what appears to be a third pole in the middle of the magnet and some do not. Has anyone confirmed that one way or the other? I noticed in the photo of Mark Hendershot's magnet that it was different but then his device didn't work as far as I know.


I have read of one Samarium magnet being used. Also one magnet photographed had a short centre stub, but drawing always indicated plain N-S magnets, though large ones, no matter what subsequent observers surmised.



5. Since today's iron mostly has some carbon in it I'm wondering if it would be better to use Paul Babcock's idea of using steel bird shot to make the iron bar or if anyone has a source for the kind of iron needed.



This is a stumbling block for me too.
Actually I believe Lester's successful originals worked because his tin can sleeve cores were of very old fashioned rolled steel quite unlike the modern stuff. I have been wondering whether something like steel mending plates could be used for the armature, these typically being available in 100mm and 150mm lengths.



6. I'm looking for 30's, 40's, 50's telephones to get the ringer coils. Does anyone have a source for those parts or today's equivalent?


It is my feeling that the sort of bell coils he used were from a large double bell outdoor ringer, and not the fine wire telephone line powered types.

Again this is where I am working on my own solution. I have obtained two old telephone exchange rack type relays and stripped them down to their solenoid core in order to rewind them myself with the thicker magnet wire as recorded. Telephone relays have a plated copper shorted turn end that must be removed and be replaced with an insulated end former. I shall cut and drill the body of one relay in order to mount both solenoids upon it.



7. I saw the AHO notes about sealing the L4 cap-coil with parafin. Does that have any electret properties? I've seen electrects made of combinations of waxes over metal and was wondering if any of that info applies in the Hendershot device.



I don't think that there was any other reason than keeping everything correctly aligned, plus rendering the core-cap value adjustable via clamping.



Any assistance/clarifications will be greatly appreciated.


Yes indeed - I would agree - Any assistance/clarifications will be greatly appreciated.

Don't forget that inventors of yesteryore will specify components that were then available.
Sometimes, nowadays, better ones are in stock but sometimes the originals had some strange property that was essential.

Paul-R

Hi Paul,

It is possible to use high voltage electrolytics for much lesser AC operation, so maybe Lester had success in this regard with his earlier generators.
Modern electrolytics are much more compact for equal value and are likely much less able to dissipate/ lose induced heat.

40uF and 80uF were normal after WW2, but back in the 1930's such high values must have been very specialised ! If genuinely available ?

Cheers ............... Graham.

[wrtner]

1. I'm not able to locate the dual 40-80 MFD, 450V caps so I'll just use separate caps with those ratings..

Don't forget that inventors of yesteryore will specify components that were then available.

Sometimes, nowadays, better ones are in stock but sometimes the originals had some strange property that was essential.

Paul-R

[john_g]

Hi John, What a wonderful piece of electromagnet history you have there.
A cannon that would fire out small pieces of iron without need for explosives - 'hands-on' reporting !

You know – few people investigate beyond what they are shown/ taught, such that the majority who do not work hands-on with coils (and even many who do) still don’t realise that whilst the field within a standard spiral wound coil is more concentrated than the field outside of it, its polarity is also completely reversed.
Thus at the tubular ends of a spiral coil winding the field direction quite literally turns through 180 degrees around the end turns with respect to the coil axis !
Where does this leave those who merely draw imaginary field strength lines ?

The writer of that book used the same term as did Wesley Gary - neutral zone;
and yet in both field related examinations there were similar reactions due to iron being placed within a magnetic field.

There was not an axial 'neutral zone' generated by the cannon slightly out from its energised open end -
the still extremely powerful funnel shaped cannon field induced electron spin orbit alignments within the iron object in a non-linear manner.
This caused the object itself to develop a longitudinally differential field which enabled its resting in a position of minimum reactivity.

It was the resultant force which became neutral - not the cannon's field - and hence today I think that today we would not use that term neutral in the same way when discussing magnetic fields;
hence in that magnetised cannon field situation I think that words like minimum and null would be more appropriate.

Cheers .............. Graham.

Graham

Thanks for that explanation. I have made an enlargement of the canon mouth area, as some details of the magnetic field alinement within the bore, did not show up well on the previous picture.

Regards

John

[GSM]

I'm trying to locate materials to build the Hendershot device
Any assistance/clarifications will be greatly appreciated.

Much to discuss here, back shortly.

Cheers ................ Graham.

[GSM]

I found this experiment interesting examining the neutral zone. Has anyone got a copy of the 1888 The Electrical World?:

Hi John, What a wonderful piece of electromagnet history you have there.
A cannon that would fire out small pieces of iron without need for explosives - 'hands-on' reporting !

You know – few people investigate beyond what they are shown/ taught, such that the majority who do not work hands-on with coils (and even many who do) still don’t realise that whilst the field within a standard spiral wound coil is more concentrated than the field outside of it, its polarity is also completely reversed.
Thus at the tubular ends of a spiral coil winding the field direction quite literally turns through 180 degrees around the end turns with respect to the coil axis !
Where does this leave those who merely draw imaginary field strength lines ?

The writer of that book used the same term as did Wesley Gary - neutral zone;
and yet in both field related examinations there were similar reactions due to iron being placed within a magnetic field.

There was not an axial 'neutral zone' generated by the cannon slightly out from its energised open end -
the still extremely powerful funnel shaped cannon field induced electron spin orbit alignments within the iron object in a non-linear manner.
This caused the object itself to develop a longitudinally differential field which enabled its resting in a position of minimum reactivity.

It was the resultant force which became neutral - not the cannon's field - and hence today I think that today we would not use that term neutral in the same way when discussing magnetic fields;
hence in that magnetised cannon field situation I think that words like minimum and null would be more appropriate.

Cheers .............. Graham.

[thx1138]

Sourcing material for build

I'm trying to locate materials to build the Hendershot device shown on PDF page 45 of "From The Archives Of Lester J. Hendershot".


I have some questions:
1. I'm not able to locate the dual 40-80 MFD, 450V caps so I'll just use separate caps with those ratings. Is that probably the reason that different photos show a different number of caps. I'm thinking the photos showing 3 caps are actually 3, 40 uF caps, with 2 in parallel to make the 80uF one. Is that right?

2. The drawing specifies "20 AWG Insulated Solid" for L1 and L2. Should these be copper? It doesn't say. Does anyone have insulated 20 AWG from the 50's or know where to find specs of that era? I'm wondering about the insulation thickness since it will affect the spacing between the wires. They didn't have the plastics back then that we have today so I'm wondering what the insulation was made of and how thick it was. I saw in one of the documents it was "Belden" wire and they still make it today but it uses plastic insulation. The reason I ask is that I recently replaced some wire going to a well pump that was installed in the mid 70's and it had some kind of rubber insulation and a #10 wire was roughly 1/4" outside diameter - much larger than today's plastic insulation.

3. Does anyone know specifically what type of material was used in the U shaped magnet , i.e. AlNiCo, Samarium Cobalt, etc? I saw somewhere that it was from a radar magnetron. Has anyone been able to confirm that it was or was not from a radar unit? That's an interesting question regarding LJH's working with the air force in the ealy days. Of course radar wasn't developed until the 40's but that is one of those coincidences that kind of jumps out at me.

4. Some drawings and photos show what appears to be a third pole in the middle of the magnet and some do not. Has anyone confirmed that one way or the other? I noticed in the photo of Mark Hendershot's magnet that it was different but then his device didn't work as far as I know.

5. Since today's iron mostly has some carbon in it I'm wondering if it would be better to use Paul Babcock's idea of using steel bird shot to make the iron bar or if anyone has a source for the kind of iron needed.

6. I'm looking for 30's, 40's, 50's telephones to get the ringer coils. Does anyone have a source for those parts or today's equivalent?

7. I saw the AHO notes about sealing the L4 cap-coil with parafin. Does that have any electret properties? I've seen electrects made of combinations of waxes over metal and was wondering if any of that info applies in the Hendershot device.

Any assistance/clarifications will be greatly appreciated.

[john_g]

I found this experiment interesting examining the neutral zone. Has anyone got a copy of the 1888 The Electrical World?:

[tachyoncatcher]

Public Service Announcement

I do so agree with you about this, but I am almost at the Forum limit for allowed upload memory space, and I do not want earlier photos etc. to drop from server memory, as I have seen happen here before with other contributors on long running threads.
As of today this is particulary concerning due to some related findings I should like to share related to Wesley Gary's neutral zone, and indirectly to the Hendershot Buzzer.

Hey @ALL,
There is a way to avoid upload limits completely. Get a free Photobucket account. Upload your pictures there. They have a tool (Get Links) that creates a forum link for the picture. Click the IMG word and it copies. Then paste in your post. Picture will display in your post as if you uploaded it in the forum and others can copy it as if it was there. But, it's not! No limits! I have been doing this for a couple years now. Works great. Link in my signature is a picture that resides at Photobucket.
Good Luck,
Randy

[GSM]

I'm wondering if anyone has put together a document that does side-by-side comparisons of all of the L. Hendershot, AHO, Skilling, and M. Hendershot versions. At this point I'm pretty confused. I think that's mostly because the documentation is so fragmented

I'm thinking of doing that comparison document on the generator but it looks like a large task. I would like some suggestions for which documents to include and which to exclude and why you think so.

Hi Thx. No I don't think this has been done before, and you already mention the main reporters. Personally I don't think that any can be excluded, though discernment must remain essential.

I also very much like your idea in relation the winding hole templates.

"...thus I find these thoughts most difficult to express." I think I'm with you on this but a diagram in Paint or something would be very useful. Even a photo of a hand drawn diagram would be helpful. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words and would help people from going off in the wrong direction by misinterpreting your meaning.

I do so agree with you about this, but I am almost at the Forum limit for allowed upload memory space, and I do not want earlier photos etc. to drop from server memory, as I have seen happen here before with other contributors on long running threads.
As of today this is particulary concerning due to some related findings I should like to share related to Wesley Gary's neutral zone, and indirectly to the Hendershot Buzzer.

Hence my post here -
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post242176

in relation to the text and Wesley’s genuine *real world free energy generator* machine almost half way down this page –

Wesley Gary's Magnetic Motor

GSM: After going through all the posts in this thread, I think you and Aspden are thinking pretty much the same thing but you call it "neutrino flux" and he calls it "aether" - that great unseen, nearly impossible to detect "something" that fills the universe. You might try looking at his work again and every time you see the word "aether" just substitute "neutrino flux" to get it into your terms.

This is an aspect I have considered before, especially with regard to Tesla and TH Moray, but to me the 'classic' Aether is such a 'No-No' that I cannot permit myself to make assumptions about other people's understandings, especially when they make unclarified claims involving an Aether.

Yes I will catch up on Aspden, but just at this moment my mind is on Hendershot 'buzzer' magnetics, as per the Mk3, for I shall need to wind myself the two 20awg series connected solenoid buzzer coils in order to examine aspects of pulsed reactivity as per Wesley Gary.


There are no clear photographs of Hendershot’s magnetic buzzer, though there are comments that it works similarly to an old fashioned earphone.
Now it is my opinion that the Hendershot armature cannot be in direct contact with the magnet poles, for this would lead to it becoming magnetically saturated, and thus more difficult to vibrate.
If gapped from the magnet pole pieces via paper or card spacers, it would then be possible to induce within the armature exactly the same field reversals as occur with a Wesley Gary arrangement, such that the buzzer solenoids both induce and transduce permanent magnet empowered armature field reversals.

Thus questions come to mind here –
Can a Hendershot buzzer empower a high efficiency single phase magnet alternator via a series capacitor *once the alternator has been run up to a speed coincidental with buzzer resonant frequency*, this by returning a phase shifted magnet induced power pulse to the motor, after the motor back-EMF has temporarily and cyclically reversed the buzzer armature field ?
Three resonators for three phase magnet alternators ? Or two with single phase power output ?
Was it this type of armature field impulse generating magnetic buzzer arrangement which really fed Hendershot’s centre coil empowered Mk2 magnet motor at the Air Force demonstration; also the Spirit of St Louis aeroplane motor after it had been spun up via the higher power petrol motor essential for take-off ?
The Mk3 generator was far too unreliable for airframe usage, and with magnet alternators having circa 95% efficiency, it would not take much power in the way of synchronous magnet empowered drive in order to ensure continuous motor operation.

This why single phase magnet alternators are almost as difficult to obtain as neodimium horse-shoe magnets and flat soft iron armatures ?

Model-T Fords and the earlier original 1.6 litre twin opposing cylinder Model-A both utilised large flywheel based magnet alternators. Was some kind of a 'pacing resonator' also included during the first year of production such that a pair of cow magnets (approx 1/2" dia by 3" long each) could enable magnetic re-energisation.

Model T Magnetic Modification

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Figure_11.png

Can a spring be made to have 2 opposite levels of magnetism?
There is a spot where there's neither pole.
A ring magnet has the opposite pole ,in the hole.( that rhymes).
Couldn't a coil spring be placed over the hole , in opposite polarity of its'( the holes') pole orientation.
As the spring gets pushed away ,its' field strength weakens, to a point where it collaspe's, and it starts over???
artv

Took me a while to figure that one Shylo, but I think the answers are 'Yes' and 'Yes'.


Cheers ................... Graham.

[shylo]

spring

Can a spring be made to have 2 opposite levels of magnetism?
There is a spot where there's neither pole.
A ring magnet has the opposite pole ,in the hole.( that rhymes).
Couldn't a coil spring be placed over the hole , in opposite polarity of its'( the holes') pole orientation.
As the spring gets pushed away ,its' field strength weakens, to a point where it collaspe's, and it starts over???
artv

[thx1138]

Hendershot build comparisons

I'm still working through the attachments and referenced docs, but getting there.

I'm wondering if anyone has put together a document that does side-by-side comparisons of all of the L. Hendershot, AHO, Skilling, and M. Hendershot versions. At this point I'm pretty confused. I think that's mostly because the documentation is so fragmented - refer to Appendix X for this drawing and these other Y drawings and this other appendix for this other drawing, etc.

I'm thinking of doing that comparison document on the generator but it looks like a large task. I would like some suggestions for which documents to include and which to exclude and why you think so.

I also had a thought on the coil template I did earlier. It would be a good idea to make 4 of them when you do it. Three would not have the holes drilled all the way through and the fourth one would have the holes drilled all the way through and slightly larger. #1 would be the base for coil A and #2 would the base for coil B. #3 would be used to keep the dowels aligned by placing it on top of the dowels after you insert them in teh base (1 or 2) and while you are winding or, if your'e using glue, while the glue sets in the base. #4 with the holes drilled a little larger and all the way through would just be used to compress the coil windings while you're winding, i.e. do a turn and push #4 down to snug the new turn against the lower turn while you are working the slack out of the basket weave.

Last year I hands-on replicated Wesley Gary's neutral zone.

With a horse-shoe magnet there is a *neutral line* dead centre between a horse-shoe magnet's arms which is neither N nor S.

Now here I wish to make a point:-
The drawing of so called field strength lines can lead to incorrect perceptions of what really happens with magnetic fields, for people who have been conditioned to draw lines of flux almost always get this aspect wrong with respect to the magnet itself by erroneously apportioning their *external* either N or S related field strength measurements as if relating to the magnet itself !

The field strength between the poles of a horse-shoe magnet remains *substantial*.

Yes the externally measured polarity might be zero, but the flux between the magnet arms is not.

This is like having two plates charged at say +/- 100Vdc;
the externally measured centre line charge potential might be zero, but the field in V/m on that centre line between the plates is not !

( Exactly the same misconceptions can apply within the minds of those indoctrinated with a classic understanding of electromagnetic wave radiation and field strengths, hence engineers who became qualified or gained licences for these applications proved that they were obliged to accept a flawed education ..... though that is not the topic here. )

Now Wesley Gary additionally published via his Patent that there is a neutral line at some distance away from the pole faces of a horse-shoe magnet.

Wesley Gary's Magnetic Motor
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ine-space.html

I noted that this neutral zone varies with
magnet strength,
armature dimensions - and -
the direction of the Earth's magnetic field in which the magnet and armature are aligned, this being due to the fact that a ferrite or soft iron armature summates all flux !

Thus an oscillating soft iron bar within a horse-shoe magnet's neutral zone could equally be arranged to be within the neutral zone of horse-shoe transducer coils whereby back-EMF from a motor or L-C reactive circuit could mechanically 'tune' the endlessly free transfer of magnet *charge* from a permanent magnet via the soft iron armature.
As per the Mk3 Hendershot Magnetronic Generator.

Looking back at Lester Hendershot's Mk1 toy aeroplane, this ran only when aligned with compass North, which suggests that the Earth's magnetic field was polarising an element operating within the neutral zone of a magnet.
But suppose *one* of the poles of an horseshoe magnet construction involved spring steel, and this was physically changing its own dimension through being an oscillating bar magnet, with the transducing armature/ winding fixed ?

Or a magnet, or some magnetic material linked to or in the field of a magnet, is induced to vibrate beside, or end-on with, or close to a wound armature separately already summating Earth field flux ?
Could not a bar magnet be made to oscillate via the sideways E-W field of a cored inductor thus energised, as Lester himself stated, and this physically alternate a contribution of the Earth's magnetic field via soft iron core magnetisation within a transducer winding ?

Thus regarding the second stage of Hendershot's Mk1 generator design:
Instead of a fixed horseshoe magnet and an overwound soft iron keeper being oscillated throught the neutral zone as by Wesley Gary,
what about the overwound soft iron keeper being extended to become like a closed magnetic loop - transformer laminates *without the centre core* - exactly as described in Hendershot's first generator circuit,
with the externally oscillating 'magnet' for this second stage of his generator within the body of his model aeroplane being a pair of series connected solenoids as energised by the buzzing magnet and coils situated above the model wheels:

The field induced across one end of a square transformer core could also pass through the other, though this via a parallel horse-shoe core arrangement over a bar armature.

As I do not have a workshop I could not easily test any of this for myself, and thus I find these thoughts most difficult to express. Hopefully however, there are others here who could not just expand via discussion, but take this further on their own benches, for what might have been interpreted by Patent Office employees could easily have had quite different physical properties within the invisible magnetic domain.

Cheers ................ Graham.

"...thus I find these thoughts most difficult to express." I think I'm with you on this but a diagram in Paint or something would be very useful. Even a photo of a hand drawn diagram would be helpful. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words and would help people from going off in the wrong direction by misinterpreting your meaning. I find that drawing a diagram of something helps me clarify exactly what it is I'm thinking and how to describe it. I use Paint a lot just because it's easier to redo something on the computer than to have a bunch of scratch outs on a hand drawn one or having to start over.

GSM: After going through all the posts in this thread, I think you and Aspden are thinking pretty much the same thing but you call it "neurino flux" and he calls it "aether" - that great unseen, nearly impossible to detect "something" that fills the universe. You might try looking at his work again and every time you see the word "aether" just substitute "neutrino flux" to get it into your terms.

[GSM]

Magnetic Oscillators

Last year I hands-on replicated Wesley Gary's neutral zone.

With a horse-shoe magnet there is a *neutral line* dead centre between a horse-shoe magnet's arms which is neither N nor S.

Now here I wish to make a point:-
The drawing of so called field strength lines can lead to incorrect perceptions of what really happens with magnetic fields, for people who have been conditioned to draw lines of flux almost always get this aspect wrong with respect to the magnet itself by erroneously apportioning their *external* either N or S related field strength measurements as if relating to the magnet itself !

The field strength between the poles of a horse-shoe magnet remains *substantial*.

Yes the externally measured polarity might be zero, but the flux between the magnet arms is not.

This is like having two plates charged at say +/- 100Vdc;
the externally measured centre line charge potential might be zero, but the field in V/m on that centre line between the plates is not !

( Exactly the same misconceptions can apply within the minds of those indoctrinated with a classic understanding of electromagnetic wave radiation and field strengths, hence engineers who became qualified or gained licences for these applications proved that they were obliged to accept a flawed education ..... though that is not the topic here. )

Now Wesley Gary additionally published via his Patent that there is a neutral line at some distance away from the pole faces of a horse-shoe magnet.

Wesley Gary's Magnetic Motor
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ine-space.html

I noted that this neutral zone varies with
magnet strength,
armature dimensions - and -
the direction of the Earth's magnetic field in which the magnet and armature are aligned, this being due to the fact that a ferrite or soft iron armature summates all flux !

Thus an oscillating soft iron bar within a horse-shoe magnet's neutral zone could equally be arranged to be within the neutral zone of horse-shoe transducer coils whereby back-EMF from a motor or L-C reactive circuit could mechanically 'tune' the endlessly free transfer of magnet *charge* from a permanent magnet via the soft iron armature.
As per the Mk3 Hendershot Magnetronic Generator.

Looking back at Lester Hendershot's Mk1 toy aeroplane, this ran only when aligned with compass North, which suggests that the Earth's magnetic field was polarising an element operating within the neutral zone of a magnet.
But suppose *one* of the poles of an horseshoe magnet construction involved spring steel, and this was physically changing its own dimension through being an oscillating bar magnet, with the transducing armature/ winding fixed ?
Or a magnet, or some magnetic material linked to or in the field of a magnet, is induced to vibrate beside, or end-on with, or close to a wound armature separately already summating Earth field flux ?
Could not a bar magnet be made to oscillate via the sideways E-W field of a cored inductor thus energised, as Lester himself stated, and this physically alternate a contribution of the Earth's magnetic field via soft iron core magnetisation within a transducer winding ?

Thus regarding the second stage of Hendershot's Mk1 generator design:
Instead of a fixed horseshoe magnet and an overwound soft iron keeper being oscillated throught the neutral zone as by Wesley Gary,
what about the overwound soft iron keeper being extended to become like a closed magnetic loop - transformer laminates *without the centre core* - exactly as described in Hendershot's first generator circuit,
with the externally oscillating 'magnet' for this second stage of his generator within the body of his model aeroplane being a pair of series connected solenoids as energised by the buzzing magnet and coils situated above the model wheels:
The field induced across one end of a square transformer core could also pass through the other, though this via a parallel horse-shoe core arrangement over a bar armature.

As I do not have a workshop I could not easily test any of this for myself, and thus I find these thoughts most difficult to express. Hopefully however, there are others here who could not just expand via discussion, but take this further on their own benches, for what might have been interpreted by Patent Office employees could easily have had quite different physical properties within the invisible magnetic domain.

Cheers ................ Graham.