My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[YahwehisSpirit]

Help

So in the diagram for the 3 pole motor the coils are wound the same direction and one end of the coil is atached to the opostie side of commutator and other end is connected to oposite end of oposite side commutator.. correct? Also can someone fill me in i keep coming across a specific about how the brushes are to be set...?? Here are some pics of what i have so far. If someone can confirm my understanding of how to wrap and connect the coil that would help immeasurably as i could start wrapping the armature.

[HuntingRoss]

If someone can confirm my understanding of how to wrap and connect the coil that would help immeasurably as i could start wrapping the armature.

I have started to do dummy runs on the first group to make sure the timing is correct and that the motor kicks off. I use some old wire and do a quick 5 or 10 turns and test. Chances are when you put it back together and connect it up, the comm on the brushes wont be the one you wired so just spin the rotor in your fingers and it should jump start the process. Test at 5v or so.

Happy Hunting

mark

[Ufopolitics]

Nice work

So in the diagram for the 3 pole motor the coils are wound the same direction and one end of the coil is atached to the opostie side of commutator and other end is connected to oposite end of oposite side commutator.. correct? Also can someone fill me in i keep coming across a specific about how the brushes are to be set...?? Here are some pics of what i have so far. If someone can confirm my understanding of how to wrap and connect the coil that would help immeasurably as i could start wrapping the armature.

Hello YahwehisSpirit,

Nice work, you have plenty of room for wiring there!

Ok, below is the three pole CAD:

[IMG][/IMG]

Coils are color coded with commutator elements, so take a good look first at the way brushes seat related to stators (N-S Magnets).
Then notice the green comm element is making contact to brush, therefore firing green NORTH coil (N-1), which seats right between N-S Upper side, generating a rotation indicated by top arrow.

So, this is all about a 'sweeping angle' generated by comm element-brush and Fired Coil and Stators, like I have shown below:

[IMG][/IMG]

And of course you could adjust the timing by moving the brushes (or magnets, whichever is simpler) either to start firing closer to North Blue Stator CENTER...which would be a higher Repulse mode...OR, by doing the opposite...firing it closer to SOUTH RED Stator CENTER...where it would be more towards "attract mode".

This Diagram is set at a 'Neutral Point' which fires right between both stators equally.

Also, the wiring connections to commutator elements is "relative"...as I have done it right at center of coil...but it could be done on either side, just realizing the basics here.


Thanks and please, post your results when you are done, so others learn from your work...


Ufopolitics

[YahwehisSpirit]

Sweet spot.

Hello YahwehisSpirit,

Nice work, you have plenty of room for wiring there!

Ok, below is the three pole CAD:

[IMG][/IMG]

Coils are color coded with commutator elements, so take a good look first at the way brushes seat related to stators (N-S Magnets).
Then notice the green comm element is making contact to brush, therefore firing green NORTH coil (N-1), which seats right between N-S Upper side, generating a rotation indicated by top arrow.

So, this is all about a 'sweeping angle' generated by comm element-brush and Fired Coil and Stators, like I have shown below:

[IMG][/IMG]

And of course you could adjust the timing by moving the brushes (or magnets, whichever is simpler) either to start firing closer to North Blue Stator CENTER...which would be a higher Repulse mode...OR, by doing the opposite...firing it closer to SOUTH RED Stator CENTER...where it would be more towards "attract mode".

This Diagram is set at a 'Neutral Point' which fires right between both stators equally.

Also, the wiring connections to commutator elements is "relative"...as I have done it right at center of coil...but it could be done on either side, just realizing the basics here.


Thanks and please, post your results when you are done, so others learn from your work...


Ufopolitics

Ok first on wireing I started last night being excited after receiving your reply to post ufo. I shouldn't have as i and my wife were out with the baby all day and i was tired. being tiredi know I have 300 turn but i know i probably have more. Im going to re wrap to be exact. My question for wiring is reading ohms, from what i have read and gather, each coil needs to be at 1ohm? How do i read that? i get no reading with 300 turns, do i strip a little insulation? will that be detrimental if i scratch it much and continue wiring?

Ok UFO about the timing, what if you set the commutator a little off center with the armature to were green comm element is slightly closer too green coil yet still complete opposite side? The magnets in the housing are 1x2 I forced the housing manually with my hands as my wife wrapped the fiberfix around housing, some resin slipped throuh and seld magnets, perfectly because they were repelling. My brush housing caps, because of the way i had to take them off, spin freely in the housing to were i can set their position any way id like anytime. Itll be good for finding a sweet spot i can imagine...?

[Ufopolitics]

Wiring-Timing

My question for wiring is reading ohms, from what i have read and gather, each coil needs to be at 1ohm?

Hello YHS,

Ok, one good thing to do first is to make sure your meter is capable of reading low ohms with accuracy, plus read your meter's resistance.

Measure your meter's resistance: Touch both probes, it 'should' read zero, if it don't...then it must be reset to zero...or deduct whatever measure is shown...since that would be your own meter resistance.

Second: Get a low 1-10 ohms resistor and measure it to find out if your meter is accurate.

Some good tutorials:

Multimeter Tutorial/Resistance Tests

Ohmmeter usage

How do i read that? i get no reading with 300 turns, do i strip a little insulation? will that be detrimental if i scratch it much and continue wiring?

With 300 turns, even with 16 gauge (awg) you must get a reading, so there is something wrong with meter or contacts or something else.

If you scratch just ONE wire, is no problem...but two or more strips within short turn distance could short coil...no good.

Ok UFO about the timing, what if you set the commutator a little off center with the armature to were green comm element is slightly closer too green coil yet still complete opposite side? The magnets in the housing are 1x2 I forced the housing manually with my hands as my wife wrapped the fiberfix around housing, some resin slipped throuh and seld magnets, perfectly because they were repelling. My brush housing caps, because of the way i had to take them off, spin freely in the housing to were i can set their position any way id like anytime. Itll be good for finding a sweet spot i can imagine...?

After you are done winding, with identical (or very close) ohms readings on all coils, meaning you are good to go do some timing play...and yes, you could move to fire closer to either one stators center, while measuring draw and RPM's plus Torque...I do it all the time while I am running motors with a PSU (Power Supply Unit)...is the best way to adjust the timing in them.

The Diagram I have shown is based on a NEUTRAL TIMING, meaning, firing coil right at center between both Stators, so there is a 50-50% share of Attract-Repulse. But remember that a three element commutator have a sweeping angle of 120º duration and space travel...so you must look at start and end points location related to stators(magnets).
BUT, considering that NEVER, EVER the Coil center should align with ANY one of the STATOR's CENTER while coil is turned ON!

A "One Ohm" instance is just a unit 'agreement' measure we have taken...but it could be anywhere between 0.6 to 2.0 Ohms per coil...You must realize that the higher the resistance, the more voltage would be required...even if very low amps are drawn.

[IMG][/IMG]

By looking at the pics of your small motor, I would say a 24 to 26 awg with around 30-50 turns per coil will be good enough...but, if you could go a few more turns, please do.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[YahwehisSpirit]

Thnkyou for helping further humanity

Hello YHS,

Ok, one good thing to do first is to make sure your meter is capable of reading low ohms with accuracy, plus read your meter's resistance.

Measure your meter's resistance: Touch both probes, it 'should' read zero, if it don't...then it must be reset to zero...or deduct whatever measure is shown...since that would be your own meter resistance.

Second: Get a low 1-10 ohms resistor and measure it to find out if your meter is accurate.

Some good tutorials:

Multimeter Tutorial/Resistance Tests

Ohmmeter usage



With 300 turns, even with 16 gauge (awg) you must get a reading, so there is something wrong with meter or contacts or something else.

If you scratch just ONE wire, is no problem...but two or more strips within short turn distance could short coil...no good.



After you are done winding, with identical (or very close) ohms readings on all coils, meaning you are good to go do some timing play...and yes, you could move to fire closer to either one stators center, while measuring draw and RPM's plus Torque...I do it all the time while I am running motors with a PSU (Power Supply Unit)...is the best way to adjust the timing in them.

The Diagram I have shown is based on a NEUTRAL TIMING, meaning, firing coil right at center between both Stators, so there is a 50-50% share of Attract-Repulse. But remember that a three element commutator have a sweeping angle of 120º duration and space travel...so you must look at start and end points location related to stators(magnets).
BUT, considering that NEVER, EVER the Coil center should align with ANY one of the STATOR's CENTER while coil is turned ON!

A "One Ohm" instance is just a unit 'agreement' measure we have taken...but it could be anywhere between 0.6 to 2.0 Ohms per coil...You must realize that the higher the resistance, the more voltage would be required...even if very low amps are drawn.

[IMG][/IMG]

By looking at the pics of your small motor, I would say a 24 to 26 awg with around 30-50 turns per coil will be good enough...but, if you could go a few more turns, please do.


Regards


Ufopolitics

Nope not the meter i had tested resistors and it zeroes out when probs touch eachother. The question was more do i have to scrape away the insulation and touch the probe to the bare wire to get a reading, asking because i dont want to damage my wire.

lol I was using 29awg because it was closer to the gauge that was on the motor, funny thing is they had it wrapped with only about 30-35 turns. I actually have 2 rolls of 24 or 25awg but used the 29 worried i wouldnt have enough of the larger lol!!

ok ill keep that in mind when i start playing with the timeing, What do you think of a bedini circuit recharging the batt that power the motor??

If someone could please answer about shaving or not shaving away some insulation that woulf be amazing!!! Im itching so bad to get it wired!!!

[Ufopolitics]

Nope not the meter i had tested resistors and it zeroes out when probs touch eachother. The question was more do i have to scrape away the insulation and touch the probe to the bare wire to get a reading, asking because i dont want to damage my wire.

lol I was using 29awg because it was closer to the gauge that was on the motor, funny thing is they had it wrapped with only about 30-35 turns. I actually have 2 rolls of 24 or 25awg but used the 29 worried i wouldnt have enough of the larger lol!!

ok ill keep that in mind when i start playing with the timeing, What do you think of a bedini circuit recharging the batt that power the motor??

If someone could please answer about shaving or not shaving away some insulation that woulf be amazing!!! Im itching so bad to get it wired!!!

Hello YHS,

I believe 29 awg is too thin for this motor...yours looks like a 550 body type, not the 256 body or the typical Radio Shack is, which is OEM wound with 30 awg.

I really do not understand why you need to strip wire to measure it before winding coil in motor?!...unless you are going by the wire length table to resistance in ohms.

All you need to do is to wind ONE COIL first...then strip the ends that are going to attach to the commutators elements and read it from the two end terminals.

Just make sure you wind very tight, and pressing it on both sides of coil , MAKING SURE to leave room for the other two Coils seating right next to this first one...that is all.

If you still wanna go with 29 awg, then do like 60 to 100 turns on each coil.

Please write down your turn counting...as all coils must have exactly same total turns.

This is it friend...just get it rolling


Ufopolitics

[YahwehisSpirit]

Sweet!!

Hello YHS,

I believe 29 awg is too thin for this motor...yours looks like a 550 body type, not the 256 body or the typical Radio Shack is, which is OEM wound with 30 awg.

I really do not understand why you need to strip wire to measure it before winding coil in motor?!...unless you are going by the wire length table to resistance in ohms.

All you need to do is to wind ONE COIL first...then strip the ends that are going to attach to the commutators elements and read it from the two end terminals.

Just make sure you wind very tight, and pressing it on both sides of coil , MAKING SURE to leave room for the other two Coils seating right next to this first one...that is all.

If you still wanna go with 29 awg, then do like 60 to 100 turns on each coil.

Please write down your turn counting...as all coils must have exactly same total turns.

This is it friend...just get it rolling


Ufopolitics

Sweet Sweet Sweet!!!! Btw this is exactly what i was asking ->All you need to do is to wind ONE COIL first...then strip the ends that are going to attach to the commutators elements and read it from the two end terminals. Yeah not radio shack motors they're from cordless drill motors made one body with two! Im going to get winding when i get off work tomorrow! Question is which is better 29awg with alot of turns or 24awg with few turns...maybe ill try both...

[YahwehisSpirit]

Sweet!!

Hello YHS,

I believe 29 awg is too thin for this motor...yours looks like a 550 body type, not the 256 body or the typical Radio Shack is, which is OEM wound with 30 awg.

I really do not understand why you need to strip wire to measure it before winding coil in motor?!...unless you are going by the wire length table to resistance in ohms.

All you need to do is to wind ONE COIL first...then strip the ends that are going to attach to the commutators elements and read it from the two end terminals.

Just make sure you wind very tight, and pressing it on both sides of coil , MAKING SURE to leave room for the other two Coils seating right next to this first one...that is all.

If you still wanna go with 29 awg, then do like 60 to 100 turns on each coil.

Please write down your turn counting...as all coils must have exactly same total turns.

This is it friend...just get it rolling


Ufopolitics

Sweet Sweet Sweet!!!! Btw this is exactly what i was asking ->All you need to do is to wind ONE COIL first...then strip the ends that are going to attach to the commutators elements and read it from the two end terminals. Yeah not radio shack motors they're from cordless drill motors made one body with two! Im going to get winding when i get off work tomorrow! Question is which is better 29awg with alot of turns or 24awg with few turns...maybe ill try both... Btw it would be YIS.

[YahwehisSpirit]

Help

Alright so i wired the armatur 33 winds an arm, .5 ohms a coil. I played with neutral fireing position and every other possible but nothing. my brushes start burning and smoking a few firing positions did create sparks. Do i need a higher resistance in the coils or whaaaaat??? any idears?

[Ufopolitics]

Troubleshutting...1

Alright so i wired the armatur 33 winds an arm, .5 ohms a coil. I played with neutral fireing position and every other possible but nothing. my brushes start burning and smoking a few firing positions did create sparks. Do i need a higher resistance in the coils or whaaaaat??? any idears?

Hello YHS,

Sorry about your problem, first, according to your picture below...

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

You still have room there for more wire, that could be a reason why it don't turn, because your coils generated magnetic strength is not enough compared to your double magnets all together.

Second, re-check your magnets alignment and make sure you don't have a north on top of a south, instead of a south on top of south, etc. If they are stacked in alike array, the rotor would never spin.

I see the way you are hooking the wires to commutator elements, and they are perfect, opposed to each others at 180º (coil-element)...but make sure brushes are touching elements also at center gap between magnets.

Those are all the issues-so far- that I believe you should check.


Take care


Ufopolitics

[YahwehisSpirit]

Hello YHS,

Sorry about your problem, first, according to your picture below...

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

You still have room there for more wire, that could be a reason why it don't turn, because your coils generated magnetic strength is not enough compared to your double magnets all together.

Second, re-check your magnets alignment and make sure you don't have a north on top of a south, instead of a south on top of south, etc. If they are stacked in alike array, the rotor would never spin.

I see the way you are hooking the wires to commutator elements, and they are perfect, opposed to each others at 180º (coil-element)...but make sure brushes are touching elements also at center gap between magnets.

Those are all the issues-so far- that I believe you should check.


Take care


Ufopolitics

If those are the problems Im sure it is the coils being to small. I did the magnet from a string to tell the poles and its n to n, s to s, it actually made it difficult to join the casings because i had to force the magnets together and hold it while my wife wrapped it with the fiberfix which luckly the resin from it leaked into the casing and bonded the magnets which keeps them from repelling eachother. So ill re wind the coils to 50 turns each should make them each about .7-.8 ohms .. And yes the brushes were first set to the "neutral" position which caused the smoking, actually it was the main location that causeed the brushes to smoke, though the smokeing made me think not enough resistance.

[GChilders]

The Battle of the Windings:

@All
I have finished the windings and made new embodiments for the gold-mine 5 pole motors in order to compare the benefits of each and see which ones perform the best. Here is a Photo of the competitors in the order of replications performed by myself. Others came before and so much of this is not new to the thread and is a follow up on my part to make good on a promise that I would build the all north, which I did, and test it which I did. But lately there has been a controversy on which winding will out perform the others, with much calling out and no substance. I do not have a bias in this competition. I have no idea which winding will win overall. What I am hoping to find out through this exercise is that the different windings will have different characteristics that will help all of us to understand better what "UFO", Raul, has been trying to disclose to us. I have not tested the windings against each other prior to this.

The competitors are from left to right, The North South winding; AKA "The Radio Shack Winding". This is the fourth R/S winding that I have replicated and I must say the best that I have done. Second is the Y winding, this competitor has a difficult history and a well deserved reputation for being the toughest replication of all. It will not be competing directly against the first wave of competitors but will come into the battle after a winner is chosen from the first wave. Next is the winding that upset the apple cart and put the entire thread into a tail-spin, The All North winding. This beauty has been slow to catch on but I am hoping we will see more replications of this winding, as it has some very interesting characteristics. This is my second All North winding and I tested the first to destruction. The next competitor is the All North winding developed by UFO and Midaz. This is still an All North winding although significantly different than the original and should be interesting to see how it plays next to the Master's. Last but not least is a winding that is probably the ugliest of all the windings. It is also an All North winding but one that harkens back to the simplicity of the three pole. Each coil is simply wound in a clockwise direction and connected to the commutator on each end. This is the most simple of all. I really do not care for it, aesthetically, but in the interest of exploration, it needs to be included. Last, but not least, is the humble symmetrical motor that was cut up, ground ,welded and rewound to create each of these replications, the gold mine motor, which will be tested side by side with the other windings.

Here are some close up photos of the embodiments and the rotor windings. Each has it's own personality and hopefully will show us completely different characteristics that can be instructive to all. I have had fun building these and will have even more fun testing them!!

The N/S goldmine 5 pole wound in the same manner as the Radio Shack motor.

The four rotor wound with the Y configuration a single rotor that uses four goldmine rotors on a single shaft. Along side is the empty rotor waiting to be wound in the winning configuration.

The original all north 5 pole motor which I have named AN#1.

These two rotor will be tested against the all north. The one on the left is the configuration that UFO came up with for Midaz, and the one on the right is the one most similar to the 3 pole.

And of course the goldmine.

Now a note on the Preparation Of The Contestants.
It has often come up in the thread that these asymmetrical motors have an unfair advantage, more copper, yada, yada, yada. Well I for one do not believe we need to be limited by what the OEM decided was best for us. We decide what characteristics we want our motors to have and then wind them accordingly. Having said that, here is how I wound each of these to make the playing field as equal as possible. I took the time to take the first coil of wire off of the first gold mine rotor completely in tact, so that I could measure the length of the wire after it came off. This is not my usual process as I just want to get the wire off. Then I made an assumption, possibly incorrect btw, that all of the rest of them would be the same length. The length of this wire was 18' 6" or approximately 5.5 meters. So I measured out the R/S and the All North original wind 9'3" and put a piece of tape there and then measured another 9'3" and then wound the first coil to the tape and the second coil of the pair to the end of the wire and tied them off and checked for continuity as I went. There are specific details on how to wind these windings in the thread and I will not go through them here but as everyone knows these are wound differently. The other two windings I simply wound the entire 18'6" on to the rotor. I checked for resistance and continuity. Resistance was 2.5 ohms on each coil pair or coil, plus or minus .1 ohm. Close enough for our purposes. The wire on each was 30 AWG. After this I sprayed the coils with laquer to hold the wires in place and balanced them on a prop balancer. I just purchased this tool and it does an amazing job for such a simple tool. I am impressed with it. I did not want the well balanced symmetrical motor to get an edge here. The motor costs a little over 4 bucks and they balance it, imagine that. So I feel that I have given the competitors the best chances of proving that they have what it takes to win??!!
Next step is to assemble, time them and give each an hour or so burn in period. Then put the competitors on the starting line. May the best winding win.
Every thing in these builds is based on knowledge that I have gleaned from this thread and the other "My Motors got me to Tap into Radiant Energy". I have read many other articles and replicated many other devices but think these are worthy of exploration. Obviously everything exposed here is based on the findings of Nikola Tesla, as were his explorations based upon the findings of Michael Faraday, Oliver Heaviside, and even his old boss Thomas Edison and a host of other great men in the field of electro magnetism. We stand on the shoulders of giants as we hope to gain the knowledge they discovered and bring those discoveries back into useful devices that we may use in our everyday lives.
Stay tuned as I post videos of the competitors in action. UFO got the ball rolling and hopefully he and his students will continue to expand this base of knowledge. He said from the beginning replicators wanted and needed. We have lots of theory but someone has to test these ideas. I have found that what looks good on paper may expose many complications in the real world as we try to implement the design. Small changes in configuration may make a huge difference in the benefits we all may reap.
Cheers
Garry

[GChilders]

Dropbox photos

@All

Sorry guys the images are not posting and I thought that I had shared everything correctly. Maybe the resolution setting needs to be adjusted for the web site here. Does any one have any ideas??

Cheers,

Garry

[GChilders]

Dropbox resolved

@All
Dropbox has changed their method of sharing photos. They once had a public folder for sharing photos. Any way they have made it more difficult to share in the interest of security. Here is a link for those using dropbox that will give you a work around.

Using Dropbox to Host Images on your Website

solved my problem right away. simply change https to http unless you want to encrypt your photos and replace "www.dropbox.com" with "dl.dropboxusercontent.com" and the link will work perfectly, until they decide to change it again obviously.

cheers

Garry