My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[GlenWV]

Thank you sir!

Hello Glen,

GRREAT!!...That is gonna be a very nice Machine!!!


Let's get to work...

[IMG][/IMG]

I believe the best way (not tested yet though) is the Group Winding All North...in your case will have 33 Groups, each Group will have 6 Coils...and each Coil will wrap around FIVE POLES...So the Coil#1 and Coil#6 center pole will dictate your two MAIN NORTH BISECTORS...and that is what you use at times to adjust machine according to Stators.

All Coils Turn same direction...with connecting shaft UP (Your Positive Commutator Input, top)...each coil will wrap CW (clock wise)

Best way to start winding this method is to do first GROUP 1 at left in dark blue...then do GROUP 18 opposed at around 180º...this way you will have better control of Groups positioning...PLUS wires-copper would be more weight balanced.

Then you jump a slot down on GROUP 1 and start GROUP 2 (I put a dot on the start of each group, color coded)

Now go to GROUP 18 and down a slot start GROUP 19...and so on Glen...you do one side, then go to other side...and do another one...one by one...and one on each side, progressing towards the TWO ARROWS with LAST TWO DOTS...that is where you will start your LAST TWO COILS ON EACH ENDS...and done deal!

So your winding goes from G1 to G17 and from G18 to G33 (end coil)...following the arrows direction.

Your P66 have 66 commutator elements, so same as Imperial P56, you will join TWO ELEMENTS to contact ONE GROUP.

The COMMUTATOR ELEMENT P1 and P18 should have changed to "G1 and G18"...but you understand this sequence.

Wire I recommend awg 18...and number of turns per each coil...could be four, five or six...calculate room you have for the most possible turns per each coil (all coils same amount of turns, of course)

Notice that all coils are overlapped here within each Group...as well as Groups overlap with each others...


Let me know...how well you digested all this post...


Regards and great to see you back!



Ufopolitics

Greetings Mr. UFOPolitics:

Thank you for getting on this drawing so quickly. I appreciate it.

Now, I'll sit down and study this layout and then do some practice winds with scrap wire. The practice winding will build expertise for the 'final go', and give me some notion of how much wire can be stuffed into this thing.

My goal for this unit is to drive a generator at fixed speed.

Again sir, my thanks.

GlenWV

[iankoglin]

Kogs Update

Nice Testing Kogs!!

One thing that I will love for you to do...and I know it is hard, cause you already have varnish and balanced those motors...is to go for the ALL NORTH Configuration Kogs...if you could just do another MY1000 Motor like that...preferably a 20 poles...then run the tests and watch the big time difference my friend!

Kind regards

Ufopolitics

G'day UFO
I am very interested first to finish Nessie and then I would probably wind one of my 2 remaining Imperial's all North's then do a comparison with the other Imperial already wound.

I am still wanting to finish Nessie I am Just waiting for some rotary switches 90 amp and some SPDT 80amp relays which I have had made in China already paid for and I believe I should receive within the week.

I have been bench testing My 1000w 24v Chinese motor for Nessie it only draws 1 amp no load and when loaded almost to a stand still only draws 4-5 amps which amounts to50v x 4 amps = 200w but when I really put on the pressure I can not stop it and the amps are off the scale
I am using a UFO's controller the one you asked/showed us to build to display the lighting of the CFL bulbs.
I also used J Stone's monster it performs about the same with regard to amps draw but is harder to produce and you did ask me to run some tests using this controller I am really happy with this controller I used 3 types one using 2 only Mosfets you used in your setup then I built one using 6 Infeon CoolMos Mosfets which are slightly faster and run cooler also purchased from China for $2 each to buy the same in Aus cost $24 this is the controller I am running Nessie with also using one exactly the same but on a smaller heat sink to run the 250 modded motor in my Bicycle
I purchased 6 new 12v SLAB's to run as 36v but found that with 48v it runs better so I use the set up with 4 small SLAB's @48 v when new this batt configuration was rested @ 50.1v and after using these batteries for some time now probably say 10hrs run time they rest @51.25v
I have uploaded a new Video to YouTube here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgG2mS38aAY

The Magura throttle is really a 5K ohms not 5 ohms
about an Hour after making the video the batteries measured 51.3v
I have decided to increase the Cap bank and have ordered 30 of these here

4 7 Farad Supercapacitor Electric Double Layer x10 Pcs Long Life 100000 Cycles | eBay

and should have them also within the week I will use 24 in series

I can't wait to finish Nessie so I can see just what she can do


Kogs still working

[RandyFL]

Radio Shack Motors

26 May 14 / 07:23:00

Hello All

Hello Ufo:
I had to reroof my house before hurricane season...it took a lot money and it took me away from this RS motor project.
Whenst returning to the project... I hadn't secured the RS motors for the actual project...
On the RS website to order the motors they aren't available online anymore.. which doesn't mean that locally their not individual stores...it means you can't get them online :-(
Is there an alternative to the RS motor for beginning newbies...

All the best
RandyFL

[Ufopolitics]

Great Kogs!!

G'day UFO
I am very interested first to finish Nessie and then I would probably wind one of my 2 remaining Imperial's all North's then do a comparison with the other Imperial already wound.

I am still wanting to finish Nessie I am Just waiting for some rotary switches 90 amp and some SPDT 80amp relays which I have had made in China already paid for and I believe I should receive within the week.

I have been bench testing My 1000w 24v Chinese motor for Nessie it only draws 1 amp no load and when loaded almost to a stand still only draws 4-5 amps which amounts to50v x 4 amps = 200w but when I really put on the pressure I can not stop it and the amps are off the scale
I am using a UFO's controller the one you asked/showed us to build to display the lighting of the CFL bulbs.
I also used J Stone's monster it performs about the same with regard to amps draw but is harder to produce and you did ask me to run some tests using this controller I am really happy with this controller I used 3 types one using 2 only Mosfets you used in your setup then I built one using 6 Infeon CoolMos Mosfets which are slightly faster and run cooler also purchased from China for $2 each to buy the same in Aus cost $24 this is the controller I am running Nessie with also using one exactly the same but on a smaller heat sink to run the 250 modded motor in my Bicycle
I purchased 6 new 12v SLAB's to run as 36v but found that with 48v it runs better so I use the set up with 4 small SLAB's @48 v when new this batt configuration was rested @ 50.1v and after using these batteries for some time now probably say 10hrs run time they rest @51.25v
I have uploaded a new Video to YouTube here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgG2mS38aAY

The Magura throttle is really a 5K ohms not 5 ohms
about an Hour after making the video the batteries measured 51.3v
I have decided to increase the Cap bank and have ordered 30 of these here

4 7 Farad Supercapacitor Electric Double Layer x10 Pcs Long Life 100000 Cycles | eBay

and should have them also within the week I will use 24 in series

I can't wait to finish Nessie so I can see just what she can do


Kogs still working

Good Morning Kogs !!(here on East Coast U.S)

First...Oh!, how beautiful Nessie looks!...lovely classic Tricycle!

I am glad that all UFO Engineering has worked for you my friend...

That Motor is running super strong friend!...love the Magura "touch" makes it jump, in first gear!

Couple of hints/advices there friend ...

Make sure the Supercaps are 47 and not 4.7 Farads...the link you have shown displays 4.7 F...and 4.7 is too short capacity for long drive storage...I have tried my latest set up with 3.3 Farads...and of course less voltage...what it does is increase the performance when you install them as side banks crossfiring coils...but the drive by itself (self running) is too short.

Try not installing the Capacitor Bank in Parallel to Batteries but...as I have displayed before, for Four Gates Motors...or like:

[IMG][/IMG]

Talking about just C1 and C2 SERIES BANKS...NOT C3/C4 which are Parallel!!

Capacitors are connected to Output Gates in SERIES BETWEEN GATES...or: C1+ to +OUT GATE 2...and Negative(-) of OUT G2 to C2-...then C2+ to + of Output G4...and closing loop G4- to C1 - (end of series connect).

Make a test with your typical capacitors on video (not supercaps) first...and see how it works.
So you will "split" the Bank into Two made of Four Caps each side...and connected to the pure output as displayed above...measure starting voltage and generated with a Meter on each side, like I did on my latest video.

Kogs, I have not tested this Side Caps connection (Cross Fire) with North-South Pair Asymmetric winding type like you have on this MY Motor...so, not sure if it will work or not for the better of performance...only you testing it would know if any advantage over this connect you have now...make sure to take temperature of caps while running...and observe they do not start swelling

The amperage is great under load...however, realize your batteries are 7.2 A/Hour...driving at 10 Amps will reduce running time.

I would like to see a video of you changing "Gears" with all Four Switches, while Magura is full Throttle...and measure RPM's!
I know such test will require of your assistant...

I am glad you are getting there so soon!


Warm Regards Friend and say hello to your wife...(I heard her in the background helping you)!


Ufopolitics

[iankoglin]

G'day Randy
Try here
DC Motors-Electronic Goldmine
Go through these motors and find the largest ones as they are easier to wind
Kindest regards

Kogs trying to help

[Ufopolitics]

G'day Randy
Try here
DC Motors-Electronic Goldmine
Go through these motors and find the largest ones as they are easier to wind
Kindest regards

Kogs trying to help

Kogs,

I have edited a few times the above post to you...make sure you refresh and read it again.


Thanks and regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

26 May 14 / 07:23:00

Hello All

Hello Ufo:
I had to reroof my house before hurricane season...it took a lot money and it took me away from this RS motor project.
Whenst returning to the project... I hadn't secured the RS motors for the actual project...
On the RS website to order the motors they aren't available online anymore.. which doesn't mean that locally their not individual stores...it means you can't get them online :-(
Is there an alternative to the RS motor for beginning newbies...

All the best
RandyFL

Hello Randy,

They say...they are "Out of Stock Online"...but I am pretty sure they are available on every single store.

Part# is 2730256

Here is the link:

RadioShack Super Speed 9-18VDC Hobby Motor : Hobby Motors | RadioShack.com

If not, then go by Kogs Goldmine suggestion above.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[iankoglin]

Greetings Mr. UFOPolitics:

Thank you for getting on this drawing so quickly. I appreciate it.

Now, I'll sit down and study this layout and then do some practice winds with scrap wire. The practice winding will build expertise for the 'final go', and give me some notion of how much wire can be stuffed into this thing.

My goal for this unit is to drive a generator at fixed speed.

Again sir, my thanks.

GlenWV

G'day Glen
From my experience in winding the armatures is that when winding each portion of wind pull the wire very tight at each corner and make sure the wire is pushed tight into the slot and keep each wire parallel to the last wire that way you can get more wire into each slot
I hope this helps
Kindest Regards

Kogs just trying to help

[iankoglin]

G'day UFO
Thanks for the reply
My replies questions are in blue

Good Morning Kogs !!(here on East Coast U.S)

First...Oh!, how beautiful Nessie looks!...lovely classic Tricycle!

I am glad that all UFO Engineering has worked for you my friend...

That Motor is running super strong friend!...love the Magura "touch" makes it jump, in first gear!

Couple of hints/advices there friend ...

Make sure the Supercaps are 47 and not 4.7 Farads...the link you have shown displays 4.7 F...and 4.7 is too short capacity for long drive storage...I have tried my latest set up with 3.3 Farads...and of course less voltage...what it does is increase the performance when you install them as side banks crossfiring coils...but the drive by itself (self running) is too short.
The super caps are 4.7F but only 2.7v I need at least 63v if I am running with 48/50v and the caps I am using finish only 1.7 Farads

Try not installing the Capacitor Bank in Parallel to Batteries but...as I have displayed before, for Four Gates Motors...or like:

I have not seen any other supercaps other than 2.7v and the ones greater in volts are too pricy for me at the moment If I install the super caps the way you show I would need heaps of them

[IMG][/IMG]

Talking about just C1 and C2 SERIES BANKS...NOT C3/C4 which are Parallel!!

I will have to study this diagram and post a bit closer to make sure I understand it I have been without an internet as my provider went broke and I have not as yet studied all your posts yet

Capacitors are connected to Output Gates in SERIES BETWEEN GATES...or: C1+ to +OUT GATE 2...and Negative(-) of OUT G2 to C2-...then C2+ to + of Output G4...and closing loop G4- to C1 - (end of series connect).

Make a test with your typical capacitors on video (not supercaps) first...and see how it works.
So you will "split" the Bank into Two made of Four Caps each side...and connected to the pure output as displayed above...measure starting voltage and generated with a Meter on each side, like I did on my latest video.

Kogs, I have not tested this Side Caps connection (Cross Fire) with North-South Pair Asymmetric winding type like you have on this MY Motor...so, not sure if it will work or not for the better of performance...only you testing it would know if any advantage over this connect you have now...make sure to take temperature of caps while running...and observe they do not start swelling

The amperage is great under load...however, realize your batteries are 7.2 A/Hour...driving at 10 Amps will reduce running time.

I am going to double the battery size also I am going to see if I can get some of these batteries as they can be charged supposedly wiht a normal battery charger like the car alternator the manager said that I should be able to charge the batteries if I am able to charge lead acid batteries
Products

I would like to see a video of you changing "Gears" with all Four Switches, while Magura is full Throttle...and measure RPM's!
I know such test will require of your assistant...

There was not much of a difference in speed and no difference in amps draw when I changed the gears

I am glad you are getting there so soon!


Warm Regards Friend and say hello to your wife...(I heard her in the background helping you)!
Jill says Thanks

Kindest Regards

Kogs still running behind

[Ufopolitics]

@ Kogs

Hey Kogs,

It is hard to edit my answer to your previous post with all answers in blue...plus my previous post included...but mainly this is about Super Caps...

Super Caps are like Lithium Polymer Cells...that are actually 3.2 Volts each.

However SC are 2.7 Volts.

The Super Caps I showed on video are:

MAXWELL TECHNOLOGIES 310 FARADS, 2.7 VOLTS

They go for around $12.00 USD and the more you buy the cheaper they come out by single price reduction (price list -per unit- shows at right hand side of linked name above)

One thing that worries me when using them in banks for larger voltages...is to keep them balanced per cell, once we build our own "Packs"...

LiPo technology have resolved this issue of "Per Cell Balancing" by using BMS (Battery Management Systems)

One thing that I love about Supercaps...is that they take Radiant or Reverse flow as well as positive flow (Batteries) and that "MIXTURE" fill/charge them out very powerfully in the SERIES (C1-C2) Connection I showed prior...I imagine how much faster it would be with bigger machines than Five(5) Poles...

They already have out a SAB (Supercap Auto Balancing) MOSFET...

And I am sure we could develop a small -per cell- SAB MOSFET BMS circuit to keep each cell balanced at a very low consumption in the future.

Point is...they can NEVER be voltage overcharged -I believe is 2.85 V MAX per cell- or they will break down

When you see "overpriced" Supercaps of Higher Voltages than 2.7 Volts...is that they did the "Packs" themselves...then sell them as a unit...but We could do just better than that..!


Regards and


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

A Zoomed Rotor...P66

Greetings Mr. UFOPolitics:

Thank you for getting on this drawing so quickly. I appreciate it.

Now, I'll sit down and study this layout and then do some practice winds with scrap wire. The practice winding will build expertise for the 'final go', and give me some notion of how much wire can be stuffed into this thing.

My goal for this unit is to drive a generator at fixed speed.

Again sir, my thanks.

GlenWV

Hello Glen,

You are very welcome Glen, anytime.

[IMG][/IMG]

The very nice Machine you will be building soon, (Your own picture shown above) will serve as a guide for all of Us that are also working on Imperial P56 Types ALL NORTH GROUPS, since their similarities in structural architecture...so, please, keep Us informed as to number of possible turns per coil, wire size...and pictures if you could...I see you are using this Forum attachment box, and that is limited, as it don't show to Non Registered viewers...or Cell Phones uploading, etc,etc...therefore I recommend a Free Account on Photobucket or any other reliable picture uploader server...

So, any questions on the making, or testing do not hesitate to ask Us here...

[IMG][/IMG]

Above I made a close/up, a bigger picture of just the Rotor...to notice the winding method better, as also the Commutator Elements positioning, related to each Group.

I have corrected many "left overs" from previous N-S Pairs I did before for your motor...like now you have the right naming of G1, G2, G3 and Right hand winding Groups at commutator level...let's not get involved at this point on the Generating side or Output Gates, as they will "come by itself" as you wind the whole thing.

I added G3 and G20 GROUPS more spread to outside circumference, to notice better each coil in the group...I know once you get the "touch" to this you would be able to do it with your eyes closed......since it is all about a repetition, once you start the first coils.

Again, best way is to start in TWO GROUPS apart EXACTLY at 180º (Check BOTH dark blue Dots at starting slots of each group)...Here they are G1 and G18
Then do G2 on Left Hand Side...then G19 at Right Hand Side.

Now you will wind G3 on Left Side...and G20 on Right Hand Side of Diagram.

This way I guarantee Rotor would be pretty much balanced in both ways...weight and fields magnetic strength.

The Main Pattern of this winding concept is simple...let's look first at Left Side Groups only.

G1 has Six Coils, 1,2,3,4,5 and 6...then you do G2...and if you notice G2(Coil 1) will wrap exactly where G1(Coil 2) is...and so on like looking from a different perspective (linear view) shown below:

GROUP#1:[COIL#1][COIL#2][COIL#3][COIL#4][COIL#5][COIL#6]
GROUP#2:>>>>>>[COIL#1][COIL#2][COIL#3][COIL#4][COIL#5][COIL#6]
GROUP#3:>>>>>>>>>>>>[COIL#1][COIL#2][COIL#3][COIL#4][COIL#5][COIL#6]

On Right Hand GroupsYou will have:

GROUP#18:[COIL#1][COIL#2][COIL#3][COIL#4][COIL#5][COIL#6]
GROUP#19:>>>>>>[COIL#1][COIL#2][COIL#3][COIL#4][COIL#5][COIL#6]
GROUP#20:>>>>>>>>>>>>[COIL#1][COIL#2][COIL#3][COIL#4][COIL#5][COIL#6]

So, you realize we will have many coils wrapped within same core position (common cores)...meaning, "one on top of the other"..and in REALITY, you WILL wind them on top of the other, NOT starting where previous ends...since that way will take too much space towards outer circumference...but "growing vertically"...to the point of NOT GETTING TOO CLOSE to Commutator, Connectors Area...then you start next or following previous wrap...understand?

At the same token, this way WILL ENHANCE magnetic Fields in a Space Amplified Fashion, in the Progressive Spiral...

Realize that when Brushes are energizing TWO GROUPS at both ends...We will have a beautiful Parallel Bifilar Type Winding...and that happens every nano second...remember bifilar enhances magnetic fields strength.

Hope you get a better view of this type of All North Winding now...

I am pretty sure this Machine would be the next Monster-Beast...


Kind Regards Glen


Ufopolitics

EDIT 1: The Commutator I used here (I realized just now...cause it was not matching perfectly on both extremes) is from the Imperial 56 Elements...NOT 66 Elements...however, the Elements marked in red must follow same pattern, or start touching brushes which should be set at center of each stator magnet...correct me if I am wrong, since I am not familiar with this Machine.
So, the chosen element(s) [they are two elements per Group at each Comm] should fall more or less between the previous and last Pole from Coil#6...

EDIT 2: I replaced the Diagram because of G3 on Comm level showing as G2 (repeated two times) now corrected..

[GlenWV]

Thank you Kogs.

G'day Glen
From my experience in winding the armatures is that when winding each portion of wind pull the wire very tight at each corner and make sure the wire is pushed tight into the slot and keep each wire parallel to the last wire that way you can get more wire into each slot
I hope this helps
Kindest Regards

Kogs just trying to help

Greetings Kogs:

Thank you for the advice, kind sir, I appreciate it and will follow it.

My eyes are on your 'Nessie', you are doing some very nice work. Some very nice work indeed!

@All: Has anyone heard from Dana (Prochiro) or Bob French lately?

Keep going guys!!

GlenWV

[iankoglin]

G'day Glen
I like the look of your Armature it reminds me of the 3 P56's I purchased
I had to do a bit of machining to make the endplates fit easily into the stator/magnet casing so they would turn easily when trying to adjust the position of the brushes to the commutators. Also the green epoxy is hard stuff it needs to be turned off outside so that it fits easily into the case without touching the magnets before winding the armature.

I did not clean any out of the slots except for a few lumps that would impede the winding this epoxy I am sure is to alleviate using slot papers it make life easier when winding as on smaller armatures that I needed slot papers I found it very hard to do any winding as the papers always seem to be in the way.

Looking forward to seeing your progress
Kindest Regards


Kogs just trying to help

[shylo]

12 pole, 2 stators

Hi All, I've got my All north 12 pole working.

UFO, I wired up your diagram ,and my caps charge to ~12volts DC , 2 caps = 24 volts. But when I try a steady dump back to batteries, everything gets hot.
I used blocking diodes,burned a few up.

With 2 transformers in line with the Bat - , and the motor -, the caps charge to their limit (56wv) , alot faster, and nothing gets hot, just warm.

I tested many situations with several trans,...The front transformer has to be closer to a match( sec.& prim.). Where the 2nd is further apart...

Thane Hiens (sp) could really apply here.
artv

[Midaztouch]

Kogs


I would really like to see some solar panels on Nessie! That would be the icing on the cake!
Your almost there buddy!

Midaz