My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Midaztouch]

@ UFO & TAEM

@ Midaz: Imperial Motors could wait...just because we want to bring a Motor for them to test it...I am not going to deviate nor rush the course of this whole Thread my friend...HOWEVER, If anyone of You guys wants to do it...and send the Original Imperial wind type...please be my guest...I know it will do good, but NOT better than whatever we are developing here now...so Midaz will help you to do that...the same way Midas did it together with Dana before...Related to my Imperial, I am not sending it...simply because I will need it for future testings, plus, I will just be winding a whole Armature/Rotor ONLY with the new design, then using same already existing and assembled Housing from the Older Model...to do it faster.

What if I tell you that this new type of winding bring Imperial Amp Draw to less than half or even more than we have right now?...while the Output would be bigger...without loosing , but optimizing all attributes related to Torque and Speed?

What if I say...that now, it will Optimize every single attribute plus adding a much smoother running? ....

Skeptics would say, "Stop blowing smoke up our *ss with pipe dream hopes and finished the first motor!" ... That is a quote.

People that look at the "Big Picture" would say, "There's always room for improvement." ... That's a quote also.

And I say, "Timing is everything".

Unless you think that everything will be on hyper drive to the smooth running of the Imperial. I say that we need months before we get through the 10p, 12p, 20poles and 4 stators. The Imperial is months away! Also, the geometry is questionable at this point for the Imperial.

I think that it's in the best interest for everyone that your Imperial be sent for testing. Our reputation is good at Imperial but the failed first testing has left some questions, in the minds of the engineers and our minds, that need answers. Since we are months away for the Imperial being rewind. I think this is an excellent opportunity to have our current model tested. Plus, it would add to the credibility of our future test projects.

I don't want to ruin our relationship with Imperial. I need to send an email to Joe. UFO, I will ask for assurance that the motor be tested with 36v & 48volts batteries only and the load applied after motor reaches full rpm. Again, I say "Timing is everything".

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[iankoglin]

@ UFO & TAEM

Unless you think that everything will be on hyper drive to the smooth running of the Imperial. I say that we need months before we get through the 10p, 12p, 20poles and 4 stators. The Imperial is months away! Also, the geometry is questionable at this point for the Imperial.

I think that it's in the best interest for everyone that your Imperial be sent for testing. Our reputation is good at Imperial but the failed first testing has left some questions, in the minds of the engineers and our minds, that need answers. Since we are months away for the Imperial being rewind. I think this is an excellent opportunity to have our current model tested. Plus, it would add to the credibility of our future test projects.

I don't want to ruin our relationship with Imperial. I need to send an email to Joe. UFO, I will ask for assurance that the motor be tested with 36v & 48volts batteries only and the load applied after motor reaches full rpm. Again, I say "Timing is everything".

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

G'day Midaz
If a motor is sent to Imperial it is imperative that there is a diagram of how the windings are connected from the motor to the batteries
Like how only one pair(top and bottom) are connected for each pole and that every second pole in series i.e. (next in rotation ccw) is reversed they should really know this BUT if not instructed how I am sure they will still get it wrong and especially also to show how to wire it when the Generator is pushed back into the motor again.

If there was some one here Down Under that was able to Dynamically test a motor this small I would do it. But every where I tried they say my Motor is not large enough for their machine

Kindest Regards friend

[Midaztouch]

Hi Kogs

If a motor is sent to Imperial it is imperative that there is a diagram of how the windings are connected from the motor to the batteries

They have already received all diagrams and videos to connect the motor to the batteries.

Like how only one pair(top and bottom) are connected for each pole and that every second pole in series i.e. (next in rotation ccw) is reversed they should really know this BUT if not instructed how I am sure they will still get it wrong and especially also to show how to wire it when the Generator is pushed back into the motor again.

All they need is a motor with all the switches and connections that are already in place. A just add batteries type deal. Simple

If there was some one here Down Under that was able to Dynamically test a motor this small I would do it. But every where I tried they say my Motor is not large enough for their machine

Imperial can test our motor within days of receiving it. It would be back to UFO in less than a month. That's more than enough time before we get to the Imperial's new winding method.

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[interestedngreen]

i must miss a detail ... please help.

I do not mean to interrupt a much more significant discussion about testing the imperial motor which I think another giant step toward exposing what has been suppressed all these years, Exciting!!! Thanks for the welcome and the help from Kogs. I appreciate your response to my post. I would like to report that I reread the other post on the latest way of winding a 5 pole motor. Specifically, I went by your post, #6332. I also reviewed the link in your post #6374. Together with Mr. Ufopolitics' latest posting, I understand better that the position of the brushes is just like the original, how the motor came from the factory. So, I opened another unmodified motor and check the position of brushes in relation to the magnets. The brushes are positioned at 90 degrees. Then, to make sure I dd everything right, I rewound my motor again, the one I labeled "modified". This time I wound it CW and I repositioned the brushes at 90 degrees , perpendicular with respect to the magnets(as you can see in the attachment). But it does not run when I power it on. And if I position the brushes at 0 degrees or parallel to the magnets, the motor runs but would heat up. I must have missed a detail.

[Ufopolitics]

Overlapped Coils?

I do not mean to interrupt a much more significant discussion about testing the imperial motor which I think another giant step toward exposing what has been suppressed all these years, Exciting!!! Thanks for the welcome and the help from Kogs. I appreciate your response to my post. I would like to report that I reread the other post on the latest way of winding a 5 pole motor. Specifically, I went by your post, #6332. I also reviewed the link in your post #6374. Together with Mr. Ufopolitics' latest posting, I understand better that the position of the brushes is just like the original, how the motor came from the factory. So, I opened another unmodified motor and check the position of brushes in relation to the magnets. The brushes are positioned at 90 degrees. Then, to make sure I dd everything right, I rewound my motor again, the one I labeled "modified". This time I wound it CW and I repositioned the brushes at 90 degrees , perpendicular with respect to the magnets(as you can see in the attachment). But it does not run when I power it on. And if I position the brushes at 0 degrees or parallel to the magnets, the motor runs but would heat up. I must have missed a detail.

Hello Interestedngreen and Welcome!

In my previous post I wrote:

Now, related to the way to make this new winding is NOT the same as previous, meaning, that just changing coils instead of being one CCW and the other CW, but Both CW would do it...NOPE it will NOT!

Please look at the way brushes are set on the new model, exactly opposite as previous, meaning, just like it comes from factory Symmetrical Model.

Second, notice that we are INTERLEAVING, or OVERLAPPING coils in this new wind, where CENTER POLE is COMMON to Both CW Coils.

Did You noticed this Second statement about windings not been only changing all to CW?

ORIGINAL FIVE POLES:

[IMG][/IMG]

Could You please look at P1...See how each coil wraps around TWO POLES INDEPENDENT OF EACH OTHERS?

Now JUST look at P1 here on the New Style below...

[IMG][/IMG]

See how they share A COMMON CENTER POLE?

I am pretty sure that you are just changing direction of winding, but keeping same pattern of poles from Old Style...that is why it does work when changing brushes to previous/older spec's...it overheats because they lock or tend to... at one stator...creating an enormous drag...keeping coils ON for MUCH more than supposed...and eventually you will burn them if keep trying to run it like this...


Check it again.


Thanks


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Midaz The Negotiator...

@ UFO & TAEM






Unless you think that everything will be on hyper drive to the smooth running of the Imperial. I say that we need months before we get through the 10p, 12p, 20poles and 4 stators. The Imperial is months away! Also, the geometry is questionable at this point for the Imperial.

I think that it's in the best interest for everyone that your Imperial be sent for testing. Our reputation is good at Imperial but the failed first testing has left some questions, in the minds of the engineers and our minds, that need answers. Since we are months away for the Imperial being rewind. I think this is an excellent opportunity to have our current model tested. Plus, it would add to the credibility of our future test projects.

I don't want to ruin our relationship with Imperial. I need to send an email to Joe. UFO, I will ask for assurance that the motor be tested with 36v & 48volts batteries only and the load applied after motor reaches full rpm. Again, I say "Timing is everything".

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

Midaz..."THE NEGOTIATOR"



just "a quote"




Ufopolitics

[shylo]

10 poles

Hi All, Well it took a while ,but finally got it working. It has incredible rpm.
Now I will see where best to place generating brushes.
It does get quite warm though, maybe once the brushes seat it won't be as bad.
UFO , not sure if I did it right , but I just spanned 4 poles, then back around #4 and on to pole 7 , for my coil pairs, then just continued for 10 coil pairs.
I could only fit 10 winds per coil, so 20 per pair.
Thanks for all the info , much appreciated.
artv

[Ufopolitics]

Great Shylo!

Hi All, Well it took a while ,but finally got it working. It has incredible rpm.
Now I will see where best to place generating brushes.
It does get quite warm though, maybe once the brushes seat it won't be as bad.
UFO , not sure if I did it right , but I just spanned 4 poles, then back around #4 and on to pole 7 , for my coil pairs, then just continued for 10 coil pairs.
I could only fit 10 winds per coil, so 20 per pair.
Thanks for all the info , much appreciated.
artv

That's wonderful Shylo!

I see you have both Motor Brushes set around 90º, maybe a bit less...so you should have set the wires to close connection at that exact angle...otherwise it will never run...

Also, you are the first I see that was able to set one commutator on top of the other...wow!...nice!

If there is a way we could see the whole set up in one picture...it would help to see what you are doing...

This type of Asymmetry heats up if the timing is set either too behind or too forward...just because at least one of the coils will tend to lock up against at least one stator, normally this occurs at the attracting one or South...slowing contact time per all rest of coils...that would also contribute to slow down at time to fire.

So, try to move/rotate both brushes (keeping exact angle between them) AWAY from the South Stator...assuming your rotor is all North and NOT All South...make sure, otherwise is the opposite.

Good job Shylo!!


Regards


Ufopolitics

[sampojo]

Multifilar resistance calculation for Baldor etc.

Hey Sam,

You have a Highly Potential Model there...a 20 Pole is exchangeable from a Five Pole to a 20 Pole...no matter if you have only Two Stators.

So, please, make it in order to be simple to take it apart and re-wind it a few times without "bending" twisting or forcing part of its structure so it could brake in every attempt to re make it.

The Multi-Filar is fine , but I do not think just Four Strands of 30 gauge will even move that monster Steel Core you have..

So you have "an idea" of what am talking about...My Bike Motor has like 12 strands of like 23 gauge to produce a 5000 Watts Motor...that have an incredible acceleration.

So, I would do FIRST windings with regular single wire, say 18 awg...or even 20 awg...and remember, resistance should go ABOVE one ohm per Pair.

But the main part of this post...is for you to develop a simple way to take apart machine...as also their windings, hook and unhook like you are using connectors...very wise!...so, no EPOXY Resin here so far!...and do not spend any money having them balanced yet...


Regards

Ufopolitics

Ufo check this post, I think I calculated that quadfilar 30ga comes in around 21ga wire. I calculated about 130ft per coil of the winding I was going to use for the 5 pole RS winding you originally proposed, which would be about 2.5 ohms per coil.

dgms of trifilar vs quadfilar 30ga

ohm calculation

When I was planning on a 20 pole winding, attaction mode we had discussed, the quadfilar winding would come in under an ohm with a 20 coil machine. Even this does not meet your spec of over an ohm per coil. Too low.

The Baldor originally had 19ga. But on the new RS winding I assume you will be using the standard 5pole winding. which would be using about 125 ft per coil on my quadfilar, coming in around 2.5 ohms estd. So no good there then right? Too high. So I guess this is what you mean.

So have you posted enough written info to wind this new RS beast then? Just use the standard symmetric brush position and do not maintain coil winding direction at the transition, correct?

Actually then it is no longer one coil (N&S) but 2 N's, but lets not quibble.

So a Baldor simulation of the New RS winding would subtend 8-Poles?

If so, Here is my main question. Rather than leaving those inner poles empty dead air, how about winding an inner coil on them?

Also when you say around an ohm per coil, you really mean an ohm per 2-coils set of N's (used to be one coil, N-S complement).


So If it is a good idea to wind the inner coils I can definitely play some games, get these 2 coil sets wired in parallel and get the 2.5 quadfilar resistance to drop to 1.25 ohms! If not I will not even get as much copper on this motor as the original symm winding, as Baldor had it completely stuffed!

TIA

[GChilders]

new wind

@ ufoPolitics

Well I just ordered 6 more goldmine motors. I have two embodiments that are already welded together. One is the original radio shack wind and the other is for the Y wind. As I understand it the Y wind is what we want to use for the new wind. I have a great deal of adjustment for the brushes built into the embodiments. I will volunteer to test the new wind and give results and also a simpler one without the wider throw angle similar to the three pole and compare the results. ufo did the Y wind have more of the effect that you spoke about than the radio shack wind. I have a Y wind that has an extra long rotor. This has 4 rotors with three stator magnets for each stator from goldmine motors. I am doing some additional experiments with this motor and I want to post the results later today. I have been hung up on getting the tachometer to work correctly with this motor. It responds well to the direct feed method and also to the pulser( I use JS Monster Drivers). It seems to adjust to the rpms and changes frequency and pulse width very well. The problem seems to be with serial communication and the interference that the motor is interdicting the commands. This does not happen when I hook up a drill motor to the timing disc so the problem is not the program or the sensors. I am hoping to resolve this as I am thinking that it will be more difficult to record the results with hand held equipment. I also think that it may affect the readings of other sensors also. For the tests I am doing today I will use hand held devices. Tachometer ammeter and voltmeter.

Cheers

Garry

[Ufopolitics]

Hold ON Sam...

Ufo check this post, I think I calculated that quadfilar 30ga comes in around 21ga wire. I calculated about 130ft per coil of the winding I was going to use for the 5 pole RS winding you originally proposed, which would be about 2.5 ohms per coil.

dgms of trifilar vs quadfilar 30ga

ohm calculation

When I was planning on a 20 pole winding, attraction mode we had discussed, the quadfilar winding would come in under an ohm with a 20 coil machine. Even this does not meet your spec of over an ohm per coil. Too low.

The Baldor originally had 19ga. But on the new RS winding I assume you will be using the standard 5pole winding. which would be using about 125 ft per coil on my quadfilar, coming in around 2.5 ohms estd. So no good there then right? Too high. So I guess this is what you mean.

So have you posted enough written info to wind this new RS beast then? Just use the standard symmetric brush position and do not maintain coil winding direction at the transition, correct?

Actually then it is no longer one coil (N&S) but 2 N's, but lets not quibble.

So a Baldor simulation of the New RS winding would subtend 8-Poles?

If so, Here is my main question. Rather than leaving those inner poles empty dead air, how about winding an inner coil on them?

Also when you say around an ohm per coil, you really mean an ohm per 2-coils set of N's (used to be one coil, N-S complement).


So If it is a good idea to wind the inner coils I can definitely play some games, get these 2 coil sets wired in parallel and get the 2.5 quadfilar resistance to drop to 1.25 ohms! If not I will not even get as much copper on this motor as the original symm winding, as Baldor had it completely stuffed!

TIA

Geez Sam!

You were taking all your sweet time making the Commutators and connectors...and all the sudden...you are all fired up??!!...

That's good, it means we are in Sync...

One thing...please, slow down just a bit, though...

Yes You are right, Your Baldor will use 8 Poles for one Pair of Two North Coils...BUT...Hold On right there!...am working on this "scenario" right now...please, let me finish "moving pictures"...

Hold on... or I will have no other choice but to bring you "The Negotiator" here...LOL

Am working as I write here... on this perfected type of winding...and yes, it applies to Your set up...as well as the Imperial...as to any other out there...

So, stick around


Cheers


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Carbon Fibers will Block Radiant Energy...

@ ufoPolitics

Well I just ordered 6 more goldmine motors. I have two embodiments that are already welded together. One is the original radio shack wind and the other is for the Y wind. As I understand it the Y wind is what we want to use for the new wind. I have a great deal of adjustment for the brushes built into the embodiments. I will volunteer to test the new wind and give results and also a simpler one without the wider throw angle similar to the three pole and compare the results. ufo did the Y wind have more of the effect that you spoke about than the radio shack wind. I have a Y wind that has an extra long rotor. This has 4 rotors with three stator magnets for each stator from goldmine motors. I am doing some additional experiments with this motor and I want to post the results later today. I have been hung up on getting the tachometer to work correctly with this motor. It responds well to the direct feed method and also to the pulser( I use JS Monster Drivers). It seems to adjust to the rpms and changes frequency and pulse width very well. The problem seems to be with serial communication and the interference that the motor is interdicting the commands. This does not happen when I hook up a drill motor to the timing disc so the problem is not the program or the sensors. I am hoping to resolve this as I am thinking that it will be more difficult to record the results with hand held equipment. I also think that it may affect the readings of other sensors also. For the tests I am doing today I will use hand held devices. Tachometer ammeter and voltmeter.

Cheers

Garry

That's great Garry!


Wow, that Model with three magnets per stator sounds different!...please show Us later!

On Your Radiant Interference...Try Carbon Fiber Sheets...if you have them in hard type with resins...if not, see if you could find just a piece of the Mat or Cloth Material...then cover your sensors from the Motor Area...

One of the very few materials that would stop/block Radiant Energy Rays...is the Carbon Fibers...and in some direct involvement it will just kill it...it will not get generated at all...unless you restart everything.

I have done those Tests...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[GChilders]

Carbon fiber sheets

@ufo

thanks for the info ufo. I need to find a source, will look into the carbon fiber sheets.

Cheers

Garry

[Ufopolitics]

So...Let's do Groups instead of Pairs...

Hello to All

Here is another option on this big sized Machines windings...

Instead of winding Coils into Pairs...why not do it into GROUPS?

Groups of Coils with much less turns each, overlapped every ONE pole, but keeping within same Timing Limits (set by Start-End Coil Bisectors) as shown in previously displayed Diagrams.

In the Generation Stage I see advantages...like MUCH more Vertical wires separated by Space and Time...allowing smooth more robust Induction.

In the Motor Stage I see One Bisector per Individual Coil...filling out the whole Angle of Interaction for a Group of...say SIX...for the Imperial..means Six Bisectors sweeping the Area.

We can then use heavy gauge wires for winding...no more room problems...

Let's see what will this Groups look like for a Twenty Pole...

IMPORTANT NOTE: IN BOTH DIAGRAMS BELOW I AM ONLY REPRESENTING THE GROUPS AT INTERACTIONS, MEANING MOTOR AND GENERATOR GATES.
GROUPS WILL SUBSTITUTE PAIRS HERE...
FOR THE TWENTY POLES, USED TO HAVE 20 PAIRS...NOW WILL HAVE TWENTY GROUPS OF FIVE COILS EACH GROUP.
AND FOR AN IMPERIAL WITH 28 PAIRS...NOW WOULD BE 28 GROUPS OF SIX COILS EACH

[IMG][/IMG]

And...The Imperial would look like this:

[IMG][/IMG]

Realize We have SIX SMALLER COILS, (spread over Ten Slots) taking the Place where ONLY TWO BIGGER ONES (Taking only Three Slots, Start, Center and End) FOR "PAIRS"...Meaning, if we do just SIX TURNS PER COIL...We will have 36 Total Turns per Group...more than 15+15=30Turns Total as per Kogs Imperial...And I believe we could do more than six turns per Coil...and of course am talking about 18 awg here..!!

At the same token...realize Groups will Overlap other adjacent Groups...behind and ahead of them...forming a very robust Spiral!

Now...this answers your question Sampojo...About having Eight(8) Poles Per Pair...so Now You could figure GROUPS...BUT REMEMBER...Groups MUST stay within Bisector Limits...

In the case of Group Windings...The Limiting Bisectors would be given by the First/Start and End Coils for each Group.

I am gonna wind first my BOSCH Twenty Poles this way..to confirm it will work fine.

If anyone have another type of structure that is not 20 or 28 poles let me know and I will render Diagrams to re do them.

See it did not take "Months" to do this?

If it works for just one...it must work for all the rest...

Still working on Five Pole Video...


Kind Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Just be careful...

@ufo

thanks for the info ufo. I need to find a source, will look into the carbon fiber sheets.

Cheers

Garry

Hey Garry, just be careful...there are a lot of Plastic imitations to Carbon Fiber sheets ...basically in the Automotive Industry...

Regards


Ufopolitics