My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[iankoglin]

Kogs P56 wire calculation

G'day UFO and Team
I just cleaned up the 3 P56 armatures and wound AWG18 1mm diam wire to fill one slot complete I think I could wind 17 turns per half pole.
I am now in the process of winding .6mm diam. wire to fill one slot completely to see haw many winds/turns I could get to wind bifilar I will let you know before I begin to wind one full armature.
Kindest Regards

G'day UFO and Team

Number of turns per Pole
If you wind completely one half of a pole i.e. fill P1 N or P1 S the number of windings/turns is equal to two full poles i.e. P1 N&S and P2 N&S we can call this number FHP (Full Half Pole) and therefore the number of turns for each pole is FHP divide by 2 also the number of turns for each half pole is FHP divided by 4.

If the Armature is to be Bifilar then the wire is to be thinner and the number of turns for one Pole would be equal to FHP divided by 2. This is the same as normal winding as we are winding only one strand per turn but being Bifilar when winding the real Pole we will be winding two strands together and so the real number of turns is halved and therefore the number of bifilar winds per half pole would be FHP divided by 8.

The Ohms per Pole
Normal winding If you measure the Total Ohms for the FHP then this would be say TOFHP and therefore would be the total Ohms for two whole poles so the Ohms for one pole would be TOFHP divided by 2

Bifilar winding as the calculating of a bifilar Ohms is Half (near enough) of the total single wire Ohms so the Ohms for one pole would be TOFHP divided by 8.

Now the winding of MY P1 is as below
Using the AWG 18 (0.1mm diam.) wire The FHP is 68 turns and therefore the Number of turns per half pole is 17
The TOFHP measured with 2 different DMM is

First DMM is 0.7 Ohms minus the DMM 0.2 Ohms = 0.5 Ohms
Second DMM is 0.9 Ohms minus the DMM 0.4 Ohms = 0.5 Ohms

The TOFHP is for 2 poles and therefore the one pole is 0.25 Ohms

Using Bifilar the AWG 22 (0.6mm diam.) wire The FHP is 232 turns and therefore the Number of turns per half pole bifilar is 29

The Second DMM is 5.1 Ohms minus the DMM 0.4 Ohms = 4.7 Ohms
The TOFHP is for 2 poles and therefore the one pole is 4.7 Ohms divided by 8 =0.5875 Ohms
I did not use the first DMM here

The P1 for AWG 18 =0.25 Ohms The P1 for AWG 22 =0.5875 Ohms

I hope this info is understood

Please any input would be appreciated

Kindest Regards


Kogs now has a headache

[ajaya999]

Thanks a lot Kogs

Hi Kogs,

Thanks for your patience and explanation.

I'll go by these threads.

G'day Kumar
I am sorry You are still not right if you remember in my post to you I sent you a word document please study it until you get the sense of it.

But your attachment to dropbox is still not working for me. I'm giving a screenshot of it here.



Many thanks Kogs for the support. And I'll keep referring to the threads.

I'll try to make some notes so that I won't lose track and referring back will go easy.

Thanks and Namaste

Kumar

[marxist]

Hi kogs,

just to let you know, that I also DO NOT manage to download your document from dropbox.

Has ANYONE without a dropbox-account managed to download kog's document?

Kogs, if you want to veryify that the document can be downloaded by everybody, you have to log out of dropbox and then - while being logged out - try to use the link you provided in this posting http://www.energeticforum.com/248975-post6075.html

[iankoglin]

G'day all
As some have not been able to download the Word Doc I have posted here for all to see

[IMG][/IMG]

Blue is North Red is South I have numbered the slots for clarity in explanation.
To determine the number of turns/winds for each pole each slot will hold 4 parts of 2 poles 2 parts S and 2 parts N
Wind around the top shaft twice to secure the wire.

First turn it is CCW and a SP take the wire down S1 as close to the shaft as you can go and bring it up S6 pull tight across to S1 this is one turn record this turn number.

Second Turn Pull wire tight then down S1 again keeping the wire as close to the shaft as it will go then up S6 again Pull the wire as tight as it will go then go across to S1 record this turn 2.

Each time you go down a slot and pull the wire tight it will push the previous wire up the slot which is OK and what we want to do.

Keep doing this until the S1 and S6 are fully wound and each time record the number of turns as you go This will be the total number of turns required to completely wind 2 Poles as each pole slot will contain 4 Half poles so we divide the total number of turns to fill these slots by 4 and because we cannot wind part turns we discard the remainder this is the number of turns to wind each half pole we will call Nturns now cut the wire about 1 half meter longer this will wind the first 2 poles.

Now to wind the First Pole P1
Secure the wires to commutator P1 top. (This is where the batt Positive is connected)

First we wind CCW P1 South take the wire down S1 as close to the shaft as you can go and bring it up S6 pull tight across to S1 this is one turn record this turn number 1. Now take the wire down S1 as close to the shaft as you can go and bring it up S6 pull tight across to S1 this is the second turn record this turn number 2. continue doing this until Nturns is reached this is the South Half of P1. Now we continue

winding CW P1 North Pull the wire tight go across to S10 Pull the wire tight bring the wire up S10 Pull the wire tight go across to S15 Pull wire tight go down S15 as close to the shaft as you can go this is one turn record this number 1 Now bring the wire up S10 pull the wire tight across to S10 Pull the wire tight bring the wire up S10 tight go across to S15 Pull wire tight go down S15 as close to the shaft as you can go this is one turn record this number 2. . continue doing this until Nturns is reached this is the North Half of P1. Now secure the wires to commutator P1 Bottom (This is where the batt Positive is connected)


Now to wind the Second Pole P2
When winding this pole just follow the above directions replacing the S#
Always remember to pull the wires tight if the wires are too heavier gauge to just pull tight you must use some means to make sure the wires are straight alongside each other if they cross over one another they will just take up space and not only reduce the number of turns but where they cross over they will wear the enamel off when they vibrate .

I am sorry that you were not able to download my Doc Was anyone able to Download this File

Kindest Regards

Kogs always trying to oblige

[iankoglin]

G'day All
Sorry for the problem with my drop Box was the Nut on the mouse ME
I could not find how to send the link I have done it now and here it is

This link is Pasted directly in the Post

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u9bdd9e5dm...nding%20P1.doc

This post is pasted through the insert link box


https://www.dropbox.com/s/u9bdd9e5dma7mv8/15%20Pole%202%20Stator%20winding%20P1.doc





Kogs is a Dummy sometimes

[machinealive]

@ Midas
34 hrs,...hard to image people willing to pay for the amount of time and work to build. But, now that people will understand the work involved,...if anyone is actually willing to pay for my work,... I will build motors, only imperials, not balanced or vacuum sealed. That could be done but extra. I would have to get $2000.00 , plus your shipping from my biz.

Now I have two, here now, so I could sell one and since it was done at a prototype level, still works great, fabulous in fact, I would knock $500.00 off.

Hope things are going well UFO, everyone.

Machine

[Lightworker1]

Hello Kogs I hope everything is OK. Your Doc downloaded OK for me
currently taking data measurements with Dual Penta Goldmine motor. More of that later.

Warmest regards

light

[Midaztouch]

@ Midas
34 hrs,...hard to image people willing to pay for the amount of time and work to build. But, now that people will understand the work involved,...if anyone is actually willing to pay for my work,... I will build motors, only imperials, not balanced or vacuum sealed. That could be done but extra. I would have to get $2000.00 , plus your shipping from my biz.

Now I have two, here now, so I could sell one and since it was done at a prototype level, still works great, fabulous in fact, I would knock $500.00 off.

Hope things are going well UFO, everyone.

Machine

I thought a lot higher than $2000! Your used motor is the second UFO motor made! Everyone, who reads this thread, knows that your price is really cheap! You should negotiate a high price for that motor.... And any other UFO motor made! They are a handmade speciality! Super rare!

Keep it Clean and Green!
Midaz


Midaz

[Zara]

New member... but not new to Asymmetric.

New member... but not new to Asymmetric. I'll be posting images of what I have been working on for the last couple of months.

Z

[Cornboy 555]

New member... but not new to Asymmetric. I'll be posting images of what I have been working on for the last couple of months.

Z

Thanks Zara, can't wait.

Regards, Cornboy.

[iankoglin]

Kogs Correct Ohms measurments

G'day UFO and Team
When winding one full half pole for the P56 armature.
I found that just measuring the ohms with a DMM set to Ohms it would only display to one decimal digit and this is not really good enough so I decided to Set my Dick Smith Regulated power supply to 2volts @ one Amp and using my DMM which reads volts to 3 decimal digits which is equal to the Ohms

I have my drop box here Of the circuit( to practice with)

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/aaelhhwxbuexoyd/UMfrcixNL3
I find Photo Bucket easier to use



The 2 samples of wiring of one full half pole is enough for wiring 2 poles and so each should be divided by 2


Using the circuit above you do not have to worry about the resistance of any wires after setting the Volts to what ever I set to 2 volts as I do not want to overheat my coils and the current to one Amp then applying the one amp current across the coil I read the Volts across the coil and this measurement is the Ohms to 3 decimal digits and accordingly to Ohms Law
The 2 samples of wiring of one full half pole is enough for wiring 2 poles and so should be divided by 2

The Bifilar .6mm diam.. (I unwound the wire doubled it and measured it)
Length is 37.7m the turns =232 total for 2 poles means 29 turns per Half pole.
Ohms calculated before was 1.2 now using the above method 1.132
so divide this by 2 = 0.566 Ohms per pole

The single wire 1 mm diam.
Before I said I got 68 turns but when I counted them when unwinding I actually got 73 turns on
Length is 23.5 m the turns=73 total for 2 poles means 18 turns per half pole
Ohms calculated before was 0.5 Ohms now using the above method )0.514 so divide this by 2 = 0.257 Ohms per pole
(if I wind with less turns the Ohms will be even less)

So the difference
Bifilar .6mm = 0.566 per pole 29turns per Half pole
Single 1mm = 0.257 per pole 18 turns per half pole

To me it seems the right option to go for the 0.6mm
I would have to try winding the 1mm again it was difficult but I did get the 18 turns
I think I Should go for the Bifilar it will be more work to measure out the wire and then spooling the 2 together then winding the 2 together


Kogs Trying hard to get it right the first time

[Zara]

Asymmetric 10 Pole

Asymmetric 10 Pole... This is the first picture more to come. Still figuring out the UI on this forum.

[Ufopolitics]

I agree Kogs...

G'day UFO and Team
When winding one full half pole for the P56 armature.
I found that just measuring the ohms with a DMM set to Ohms it would only display to one decimal digit and this is not really good enough so I decided to Set my Dick Smith Regulated power supply to 2volts @ one Amp and using my DMM which reads volts to 3 decimal digits which is equal to the Ohms

I have my drop box here Of the circuit( to practice with)

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/aaelhhwxbuexoyd/UMfrcixNL3
I find Photo Bucket easier to use



The 2 samples of wiring of one full half pole is enough for wiring 2 poles and so each should be divided by 2


Using the circuit above you do not have to worry about the resistance of any wires after setting the Volts to what ever I set to 2 volts as I do not want to overheat my coils and the current to one Amp then applying the one amp current across the coil I read the Volts across the coil and this measurement is the Ohms to 3 decimal digits and accordingly to Ohms Law
The 2 samples of wiring of one full half pole is enough for wiring 2 poles and so should be divided by 2

The Bifilar .6mm diam.. (I unwound the wire doubled it and measured it)
Length is 37.7m the turns =232 total for 2 poles means 29 turns per Half pole.
Ohms calculated before was 1.2 now using the above method 1.132
so divide this by 2 = 0.566 Ohms per pole

The single wire 1 mm diam.
Before I said I got 68 turns but when I counted them when unwinding I actually got 73 turns on
Length is 23.5 m the turns=73 total for 2 poles means 18 turns per half pole
Ohms calculated before was 0.5 Ohms now using the above method )0.514 so divide this by 2 = 0.257 Ohms per pole
(if I wind with less turns the Ohms will be even less)

So the difference
Bifilar .6mm = 0.566 per pole 29turns per Half pole
Single 1mm = 0.257 per pole 18 turns per half pole

To me it seems the right option to go for the 0.6mm
I would have to try winding the 1mm again it was difficult but I did get the 18 turns
I think I Should go for the Bifilar it will be more work to measure out the wire and then spooling the 2 together then winding the 2 together


Kogs Trying hard to get it right the first time

Hello Kogs,


I agree with you that it would be best to try with Bifilar at 0.6 mm...is that approx 23 awg?

What I see great, but at same time it worries me is that you've said that 18 Turns on 18 awg (1.0 mm) will fit perfectly...

My friend, I have tried like all can see on my Imperial winding videos...and I could only wrap 13-14 Turns per Half Pair...So, you must realize the sectional pattern each coil takes...and add all other Coils that must pass by same gap.

Anyways, it would be very interesting to see that Imperial with a Bifilar winding, and still having a good resistance.

On a second note Kogs...according to my experience, you could measure resistance with wires in a spool, or based on length...then wind them in the Motor steel core...and resistance would be different...

Same way that when coils get over room temperature...or at running hot temp, resistance would increase.


Warm Regards Friend


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Welcome Zara!

Asymmetric 10 Pole... This is the first picture more to come. Still figuring out the UI on this forum.

Hello and Zara!!

[IMG][/IMG]

Wow!!...That is a very nice looking Machine Zara!

Zara, I recommend to open a free account at photobucket.com and upload pic's there, since space on this Forum Server is limited, plus outside viewers (not logged in) could not see them.

Then on this UI Editor choose IMG at the little yellow square icon and add link from Image URL from Photobucket at the new small window.

Beautiful Machine!!


Regards and Thanks!


Ufopolitics

[Zara]

Cap Side

This is a picture of the side of the cap of the motor.