My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[ajaya999]

@UFO
Here is a sketch of the setup. Is this enough to go on or would you need pictures or other info first.? This is my first attempt with sketchup.
Dana

hi prochiro,

can you help me with 15-pole asymmetric design. i am also having a 15-pole 1HP dc motor and want to convert. please guide me with the design.

thanks in advance
kumar

[Ufopolitics]

Looking good!!

@all

85% complete!

Keep it Clean and Green

Midaz

Hello Midaz,

That looks great!...make sure the comm wires get really snapped on, and after tap them with a small hammer.

Now, I see you still have factory green epoxy on the outer rotor plates that will face Stators...you still have to cut that epoxy off in a lathe right?

On the Bike...

Have you heard of the 1000rr cassette transmission?...would it be possible to add that to your Motor Drive?

And...guess what?...I've got a very clean, complete assembled and running...1998 CBR 900RR...

I will post some pics later on...


Warm regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Ajaya

hi prochiro,

can you help me with 15-pole asymmetric design. i am also having a 15-pole 1HP dc motor and want to convert. please guide me with the design.

thanks in advance
kumar

Hello Ajaya and Welcome!

Please give more details about your 15P motor...how many stators?...two or four?

You could make a P15...or a Robust Three Poles, by grabbing Five(5) poles single coils...so your both options are good...however, they vary with number of stators.

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Interpoles...

Hey UFO,

I meant pics of your work, not your drawings . But I like your drawings..

You will see them soon...

My 6 " power hacksaw would allow me to cut the stators narrower. My mill is too small.

Well, before doing anything let me calculate areas to match as close as possible...but that would be great...as separated cores could be weighted between them to very precise balancing.

OR
what if I wound the outer stator coils around the interpoles.

Well, Interpoles are too small...so excitement would be very poor if we route it that way...and by the way...I was gonna ask you to remove the interpoles cores...they would be distorting the Outer Stators Magnetic Fields...actually enlarging/spreading them even more...not good.

Now, last thing...The Inner Stators are to be mounted to a bearing mounted to shaft...so they remain static...so, I need that hole width (mm please) which would be outer bearing diameter or OD.

Regards


Ufopolitics

[iankoglin]

@all

85% complete!

Keep it Clean and Green

Midaz

G'day Midaz
Looks pretty neat and tight
I am thinking there seems that there is still enough room so you probably could have had a few more turns.
Please what size wire and how many turns?

Kindest Regards

Kogs keeping an eye on things

[Midaztouch]

Hello Midaz,

That looks great!...make sure the comm wires get really snapped on, and after tap them with a small hammer.

Now, I see you still have factory green epoxy on the outer rotor plates that will face Stators...you still have to cut that epoxy off in a lathe right?

On the Bike...

Have you heard of the 1000rr cassette transmission?...would it be possible to add that to your Motor Drive?

And...guess what?...I've got a very clean, complete assembled and running...1998 CBR 900RR...

I will post some pics later on...


Warm regards


Ufopolitics

UFO

Thank you, it's really hard work but enjoyable! My hands are sore!

The green epoxy coat is very thin. Should I lathe the rotor to the bare metal?


Bike... The motorcycle engineer is a racing professional. He wants to add a transmission. I think that is great but a direct link is great too. We will have to check performance vs efficiency vs weight. My targets are to get our bike around 250lbs/ 115kg, top speed near 150mph/240kmh and a battery pack for 30 mins racing. Yes, It's a tall order but I think it's possible. The "how much voltage" can the motor handle will be the key to success.

The CBR900 is cool bike. We have a CBR900 at our shop. It's a huge bike compared to my cbr250rr... Is it worth stripping down vs selling and getting a bike at the recycle motorcycle yard!? How do you want to drive your bike? What type of batteries will you use? How is your physical size compared to the bike? What's the style you want to show? Will someone be on the back? These type of questions can help you decide, what bike is best for you.

I'm 5'11"/180cm and 208lbs/94kg. I always like to ride with someone on the back. 500cc - 750cc frame feels the best for me.

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[Ufopolitics]

UFO

Thank you, it's really hard work but enjoyable! My hands are sore!

Welcome to the Club!...I bought some gloves...to make the pulls.

The green epoxy coat is very thin. Should I lathe the rotor to the bare metal?

Definitively it should be sanded down to bare metal...Did You already try to insert whole rotor inside Stator Frame?

Bike... The motorcycle engineer is a racing professional. He wants to add a transmission. I think that is great but a direct link is great too. We will have to check performance vs efficiency vs weight. My targets are to get our bike around 250lbs/ 115kg, top speed near 150mph/240kmh and a battery pack for 30 mins racing. Yes, It's a tall order but I think it's possible. The "how much voltage" can the motor handle will be the key to success.

Asymmetric Motors can take much more voltages than the Closed Symmetrical Systems...I am sure that Motor could handle up to 96 to 120 Volts DC.

You have to calculate the ratio of MPH/RPM's...Normally this Bikes should drive excellent not reaching the 5000 RPM's...after that is abusing of them...however, in a race it happens right?

I have reached over 9000 RPM's with 72 Volts SLA Batteries (AGM) 33 Amps/Hour with our Imperial...I believe 9000 RPM's is some serious Speed/MPH when using direct drive.

The CBR900 is cool bike. We have a CBR900 at our shop. It's a huge bike compared to my cbr250rr... Is it worth stripping down vs selling and getting a bike at the recycle motorcycle yard!? How do you want to drive your bike? What type of batteries will you use? How is your physical size compared to the bike? What's the style you want to show? Will someone be on the back? These type of questions can help you decide, what bike is best for you.

I'm 5'11"/180cm and 208lbs/94kg. I always like to ride with someone on the back. 500cc - 750cc frame feels the best for me.

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

Yes it is a great looking Bike, I love it...beautiful Main Frame...lovely rear swindle arm...very solid made.

My physical size is perfect for this Bike...I am also 6 ft tall, but I only weight around 170 lbs...very "slender"...

I am not trying to make this my only transport...lol...So, I am going to be installing the Imperial on it...Batteries?...don't know yet...but I will take some test drives with the batteries I have...AGM/33 A/h

Regards


Ufopolitics

EDIT_1: Midaz, by using the Quad Four Pulser System to control your Imperial speed...you already have a "built in shifter transmission"...
You could use a set of switches to add(turn on) or turn off channels...the only thing is that in this Electronic Shifter ..it works inverse as a mechanical tranny does...for example, first gear for take off and to brake inertia...you will need all four channels...then as you reach higher speed you could turn off one...leaving just three channels...and so on till you get to two channels at 180 apart (like we normally do as Input)...higher duty cycle (50%), higher speed...your final "victory lane"...

[Midaztouch]

Definitively it should be sanded down to bare metal...Did You already try to insert whole rotor inside Stator Frame?

Ok, I will sand it down today. Yes, I inserted the whole rotor inside. It touched ever soo slightly but it could spin.

Asymmetric Motors can take much more voltages than the Closed Symmetrical Systems...I am sure that Motor could handle up to 96 to 120 Volts DC.

You have to calculate the ratio of MPH/RPM's...Normally this Bikes should drive excellent not reaching the 5000 RPM's...after that is abusing of them...however, in a race it happens right?

I have reached over 9000 RPM's with 72 Volts SLA Batteries (AGM) 33 Amps/Hour with our Imperial...I believe 9000 RPM's is some serious Speed/MPH when using direct drive.

Yes, we will abuse the _ell out of the motors during a 30 mins race. Currently we are looking for a pro shop to balance the motor above 12,000rpm. I want it to run smooth at 9000rmps. For the controller, above 120volts with no heat.(Dana and JS are handling that! So, I'm not worried and neither should you !) Our bike at 250lbs and a rider of 150lbs, Radiance will fly and handle like a dream!

UFO, run your bike in series. Capture the return energy to the lead acid batteries. Try to make the Guinness book of world record for the electric EV distance record on straight DC(You are our leader. I will leave that record for you ). ... I'm going for the perfect 100/100! The first 100mph for 100 miles by an EV!

EDIT_1: Midaz, by using the Quad Four Pulser System to control your Imperial speed...you already have a "built in shifter transmission"...
You could use a set of switches to add(turn on) or turn off channels...the only thing is that in this Electronic Shifter ..it works inverse as a mechanical tranny does...for example, first gear for take off and to brake inertia...you will need all four channels...then as you reach higher speed you could turn off one...leaving just three channels...and so on till you get to two channels at 180 apart (like we normally do as Input)...higher duty cycle (50%), higher speed...your final "victory lane"...

Ok boss, gotcha! And copy that!

Midaz

[iankoglin]

UFO

Thank you, it's really hard work but enjoyable! My hands are sore!

The green epoxy coat is very thin. Should I lathe the rotor to the bare metal?

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

G'day Midaz
I had my machinist friend turn the green epoxy off my 3 Imperial P56's it was very hard material and if you do it by hand I am sure it will take a long time he turns them down so they would fit inside the stater's it was so hard he didn't want to take off tooo much and they are perfectly round so they would be easier to balance.

I wont be winding mine yet until I have finished building the 3 smaller motors first that way I will be getting more experience to wind a tighter armature.
@ UFO
I did not turn off all the outside epoxy off the armatures I did not think it would matter as there was plenty of room Do I have to remove all of it they were turned nice and round and they fitted with plenty of room to spare.

Kindest Regards

[ajaya999]

Namaste to the Master

Hello Ajaya and Welcome!

Please give more details about your 15P motor...how many stators?...two or four?

You could make a P15...or a Robust Three Poles, by grabbing Five(5) poles single coils...so your both options are good...however, they vary with number of stators.

Regards


Ufopolitics

Dear Sir,

Namaste. I am from India. I lost for words when I see your message.

My 15-P motor has 2 stator coils - one is on upside and the other one is on downside, when the motor is standing on its legs in horizontal position. Please help me with the design sir.

Dear Sir, one out of the subject I want to share with you. This is not flattery. This is truth. I have shown your video to my 11 year old son in which you were holding a Bosch motor, running on a small battery, with one hand and aggressively addressing the naysayers. You were termed by my son as the one showing VISWARUPA (Vishvarupa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Thanks for the great job you are doing for the mankind Dear Sir.

God should give you all our energies to continue this mission.

Regards
kumar

[Ufopolitics]

Epoxy in the outer...

G'day Midaz
I had my machinist friend turn the green epoxy off my 3 Imperial P56's it was very hard material and if you do it by hand I am sure it will take a long time he turns them down so they would fit inside the stater's it was so hard he didn't want to take off tooo much and they are perfectly round so they would be easier to balance.

I wont be winding mine yet until I have finished building the 3 smaller motors first that way I will be getting more experience to wind a tighter armature.
@ UFO
I did not turn off all the outside epoxy off the armatures I did not think it would matter as there was plenty of room Do I have to remove all of it they were turned nice and round and they fitted with plenty of room to spare.

Kindest Regards

Hello Kogs!,

If it is not touching...then you do not need to take the rotor to bare metal in the outer side...it is not perfect for all motors...mine have some left from factory at some deeper imperfections from laminations.

Now you wrote that you have "plenty" of space?...it is not supposed to have "plenty" of room in the air gap between rotor and magnets stators.


Warm Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Midaz,

Ok, I will sand it down today. Yes, I inserted the whole rotor inside. It touched ever soo slightly but it could spin.

Like I wrote to Kogs...If it spins freely, not binding...then it is ok

UFO, run your bike in series. Capture the return energy to the lead acid batteries. Try to make the Guinness book of world record for the electric EV distance record on straight DC(You are our leader. I will leave that record for you ). ... I'm going for the perfect 100/100! The first 100mph for 100 miles by an EV!

I am working on that......The return should be stored in a fast receiving Cap Bank...more likely an Ultra Cap Bank, set as a buffer between Batteries and Draw (Motor) side.

UFO EDIT_1: Midaz, by using the Quad Four Pulser System to control your Imperial speed...you already have a "built in shifter transmission"...
You could use a set of switches to add(turn on) or turn off channels...the only thing is that in this Electronic Shifter ..it works inverse as a mechanical tranny does...for example, first gear for take off and to brake inertia...you will need all four channels...then as you reach higher speed you could turn off one...leaving just three channels...and so on till you get to two channels at 180 apart (like we normally do as Input)...higher duty cycle (50%), higher speed...your final "victory lane"...

Ok boss, gotcha! And copy that!

Midaz

Midaz, the Four Channels would be your First Gear...and also your "Passing Gear" whenever you need to get out of a hole (hole shot).

On the other hand the switching gears switches...if you use a "three way switch" (on to channel feed/off/on to Batt) could close another circuit to make "regen" back to Cap /Batteries Bank/Motor Draw (Main Pos-Neg Poles) when the second On is activated, meaning, this switch could stop feeding channel (Motor Action), then converting an Input into Output at any time is turned on, without causing the "Braking Effect" we get at regeneration on Symmetrical Motors whether through Brake Regen or Deceleration Regen.

So whenever you are ahead of everybody in the race...you could reduce channels to "refill" tank......(actually you will be running on your output in a higher percent...while the other percent are the inertia forces assisting).

All this switching on-off-on could be done electronically and automatically based on Throttle signals...and the percentage could be programmed through the software...but we have not got there yet...so you could make them -for now- as "mechanical switching" like changing gears in a Motorcycle Pedal or in a Bike Handle...


Warm Regards


Ufopolitics

[Midaztouch]

Rotor sanding

@ all

I sanded the rotor today with an air gun sander. Is this ok?

Midaz

[Ufopolitics]

Namaste

Dear Sir,

Namaste. I am from India. I lost for words when I see your message.

My 15-P motor has 2 stator coils - one is on upside and the other one is on downside, when the motor is standing on its legs in horizontal position. Please help me with the design sir.

Dear Sir, one out of the subject I want to share with you. This is not flattery. This is truth. I have shown your video to my 11 year old son in which you were holding a Bosch motor, running on a small battery, with one hand and aggressively addressing the naysayers. You were termed by my son as the one showing VISWARUPA (Vishvarupa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Thanks for the great job you are doing for the mankind Dear Sir.

God should give you all our energies to continue this mission.

Regards
kumar

Hello Kumar,

Namaste...I see You...

Tell Your Son I love him...He knows, kids have such clear minds...they could see where we can not...just because we are filled with lots of noise we acquire during our lifetime on this planet...

Related to your 15 poles motor/Two Stators:

Fifteen is divisible by Three, and as long as Five Poles Area are about the same area of One Stator or greater...You could be making a very powerful Three Poles Machine. This winding would be the simplest to build for you as a beginner, and yet very strong and fast.

Now, how many elements does commutator have?...Thirty?...or Fifteen?...If 30, then you could join every ten elements together, if 15 then just five...and...Do you have an extra commutator and set of brushes?...or a second motor to use as parts?

Do you have enough room at shaft to add the second commutator?

It should have (for two stators) two brush set at 180š from stators bisectors (Typical Symmetrical setup)

Could you take a couple of picīs from above and sides of motor without the brush cap?

The other way to wind it would be as a P15...or Fifteen Pairs of Coils...but that would be a bit more complicated...and I will have to set it on CAD...and will be a while...no time right now...as I still working on a 33 poles for another member here.


Warm regards and Namaste


Ufopolitics

[iankoglin]

Kogs Update

Hello Kogs!,

If it is not touching...then you do not need to take the rotor to bare metal in the outer side...it is not perfect for all motors...mine have some left from factory at some deeper imperfections from laminations.

Now you wrote that you have "plenty" of space?...it is not supposed to have "plenty" of room in the air gap between rotor and magnets stators.


Warm Regards


Ufopolitics

G'day My Friends UFO and team
@ UFO Thanks for the quick reply when I said plenty of room I meant mean that it fits snug and that it rotates quite freely unless of course the bearing collapses

Kogs Update
My engineering friend still has to modify one MY1060 motors when we were pressing off the commutator the metal supports we fitted under the commutator between the comm and the laminations was just a bit thin we could not fit something thicker and when we pressed the comm off the metal bowed under pressure as the comm was on tight and when it gave way it sprung the comm off sideways and the comm cracked .He said I was giving him a hand and so it's not all his fault. I replied well sometimes things just happen and it would probably be cheaper and quicker to buy a new MY1060 motor $40 than to try to buy just the comm.
when I got home I decided to pull it apart where the crack was it was hard to do so and I placed it together and tried to pull it apart again it was still hard to do so I recon a permanent band aid would fix it and some SUPER GLUE was added and clamped together its like New.
I am waiting for him to machine a new shaft and then wind them.

Just Now I am debugging my failed Monster Drivers I find that the lands on 2 Circuit boards I made with the blank PCB's I purchased on EBay seem to lift in some places when I solder them @ 35 deg, when soldering it seems that the solder is bubbling like there is water in the boards and it evaporates as I am soldering and in use they have broken continuity and therefore become useless. Using strong Magnifying glasses I examined them thoroughly and fixed them by soldering a small piece of wire across the open circuit. I made about 10 of them and will not use them any more

3 Earlier ones I made with better quality PCB blanks seem to be better

One other I found the OPTO was not working and another one the gate resistors were fried and still another one, one of the P6Ke250Ca's had Blown I have almost finished debugging them up to the fet stage
Then I will fit the Fets and check them again.

@ John Stone
Thanks John for showing me how to test each part and for directing me to Eagle software I will have to learn how to use it I was just getting used to Target 3000

I am going to Rewind one of MY1060 motors and fit it to my bike and then show my results when finished that then on to the 1000 watt motor Trike and then the P56's

Kindest Regards to you all

Kogs still plodding along