My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

I am very proud of You All...

Hello to All,

@Sir John Stone, Yes Sir, that IS THE WAY to do a detailed and really Scientific Method for testing, developing, finding and obtaining success, am glad through Dana you all could clearly see what the pulses in a sequential order could do...as how many parameters we have to "play" with, here...as we all must understand this is not an easy task at all...

@ Prochiro/Dana, You wrote once that I "mastered" the Asymmetry...but now I must say "You Master the Controlling Side" entirely...and YES, according to your last post...that is it!...I can see that now you have full knowledge/understanding of what is in your hands...and how to proceed forward...

@Machine, Get together with Dana...to achieve the proper pulsing set up...Your Machine is gonna be MUCH MORE Powerful than it is linearly fed...but reducing amperage to "Nickels and Dimes"...

@Lightworker, Yes you are "shopping" for the "Ultra-Fast" and maybe cheaper ways to Micro-Process all this...I see you are now a "bystander"...but I know what you will be delivering pretty soon...


@Hitby13kw, I know, am sure off...that when you finally get the windings right...you will deliver the "Technical Details" with such accuracy...that no one would be able to refute them...


All your work...including the "small world" on small machines...makes me very happy...it rejoices my soul...no "legal tender notes" on this entire planet could ever...make me feel like I do now...seeing all your achievements.


There is much more work still ahead...however, much less than when we started lighting CFL's and Neon's...watching that small Radiant Light...


Warm regards and Blessings to all of You


Namaste


Ufopolitics

[machinealive]

Hello Comrades

@ midaztouch

Do you have a vid for the last test? Why did you use straight dc for testing? What was the Hz when you had to shut her down?

No Midaz I did not make a vid. I just wanted to get a feel for what kind of rpm's were needed to load gen to 5000 watts(6000), and see if amps went up with increased voltage (yes), and did amps change with increased load(no), would 72 v spin it fast enough to load the gen max(no).
This was done before but not with the gen hooked up.
The rpm was around 4000 on shut down, with approx. 2000 watt load. You can figure out the Hz if you want , Dana gave you the formula.

From what I gathered from Dana's tests, @72volts and 60hz using the pulser, your amp draw should be under 15 amps. That would coincide with Dana's previous tests.

I'm not sure if that's correct. One coil would be around 30 amps at 72 v dc, based on above (2 in parallel), so it will be interesting to see what a pulse does.

Try this, use the pulser @72v and go past 60hz unloaded. The last test you used 36 volt at 227 hz. The motor achieved over 9000 RPM's! Please use extreme caution my friend. Like duck down or create a shield and turn up the hz really high for a few seconds. Video it but hide! If there is an accident, you can get a new camera but not a new you. I want to see if the fets can handle the stress better @72 volts when being pulsed. If your up to it.

That seems like a very long time ago, we don't know what happened there, except that fets died by shorting, and it wasn't reproduced (yet).

I'm going start at 12 v and take it up to 72v, if needed and I think the setup can take it. Too much time and energy into this to start blowing **** up now. This is slow and easy time.

MachineAlive, What the heck is going on over there. Broom handles and melting witches? Oh, you said switches, my bad... You do have something, if you were pulsing, shorted thru. That still sound vary high for straight linear. Please be careful, your one of the last real crazy workers we have. Do a quick continuity test at slow pulse of the fets by no power from battery or motor but test the two legs while pulser is running and hear the beep, beep, beep on all fets, that still does not mean one is gone as it takes both pair to show bad that way. Also what is getting hot, look into that. Fets don't get over 80 degrees at 60 volts. Are your wires longer than suggested or smaller. Check it out and PM me if you want to go over things step by step. You got guts man,,,,,,72 Amps,,,.
Dana

Good one Dana.

Yea, this is "potentially", very dangerous. Seriously folks, I was an electrician in a previous life, and an electronic technician, and I am very respectful of the dangers here, be careful.

It was the brushes and the blocking diodes on input that heated, and the cheap light switch, heated to melting point. It seems reasonable.
Let me start with testing tomorrow night, and I will pm you if there are problems.

But just to be sure. Drive 1 is pulsing gate 1, then drive 2 to gate 8, drive 3 to 15, and drive 4 to gate 22. were firing clockwise, but spinning counterclockwise.
I don't have any blocking diodes on fets, nor any on gates, still pondering.

machine

[machinealive]

There is much more work still ahead...however, much less than when we started lighting CFL's and Neon's...watching that small Radiant Light...

Seems like so long ago

[prochiro]

Take a breath

@Machine
Yes to the pattern of gates. When I just test the pulses, I noted that the 1st, then the 2nd, then the 3rd and then the 4th LED that went high(on) was a pattern so P1 went on the 1st LED circuit into the top or shaft end, P8 with the second lit LED into the bottom end, P15 into the top end and P24 into the bottom end. What blocking diodes on input got hot? Do you mean in the Monster or do you have them placed elsewhere? I have no input or output diodes on the positive or negative battery lines nor any between connections thereof . Only diodes are in the Monster. I tried diodes all over the place as we have used them in the past for other connections to smaller motors and I used diodes over 1000 volts and six at a time, but all it did was make trouble. I'm sure you do not have any on the battery lines. When we get this you will pulse with 12 or less amps at top end.
Dana

[prochiro]

Machine
One thing came to me. You said that you were running full out and past the 3800RPM mark. This will heat up the commutators and coils as well before you get the load on. Wait to test high loads until we get some kind of preliminary code to go higher. Without that instant adjustment of duty cycle you may actually crash something. What JohnStone said about using only 100 watts and that only after finding the sweet spot at no load makes sense. For frequency my sweet spot is 10 to 15 Hz. Yes, I know that is unreal. but we actually have four pushes with each one HZ. When I go past 32 Hz the motor quickly loads up on its own.

Dana

[prochiro]

@ All

For those of us that are interested in learning more about what is going on here and just how far an Arduino can go , read this. There is also his Arduino code listed. Nice.

Michael McKGyver McKinley / Firewood_Processor_Governor

Dana

[machinealive]

Hey Dana

I thought that was the firing order, just making sure.
The diodes are a pain. I never noticed a difference with them on input, except that they heated up, so, no more diodes.

All the 72 v talk, heating, melting witches , was previous tests, no pulser, no fets, just dc. There will be no more of that, lets hope.

I am definitely not going to put any loads on the generator, initially, just start slowly adding voltage. Then if things go good start adding just a couple 100 watts.

Thanks Dana, we'll talk soon

[Ufopolitics]

Yes, please, Machine...just pulse the Beast!

Hey Dana

I thought that was the firing order, just making sure.
The diodes are a pain. I never noticed a difference with them on input, except that they heated up, so, no more diodes.

All the 72 v talk, heating, melting witches , was previous tests, no pulser, no fets, just dc. There will be no more of that, lets hope.

I am definitely not going to put any loads on the generator, initially, just start slowly adding voltage. Then if things go good start adding just a couple 100 watts.

Thanks Dana, we'll talk soon

Machine,

I wrote it to you a while back...sequential order/not overlapping square waves at four channels at Imperial... is the way to go...just test it and see it.

Related to your Liquid Solenoid application...you could use it as a "Safety Switch" at your Positive End from Batteries...operating it with a low voltage switch on a much higher resistance and finer wire triggering coil...just in case it goes "South"...then you would not have to take away the Broom from the "Flying Witches" We are all getting rid off here...

@Dana: What a sense of Humor there on witches brooms!!...I was LMAO...you are a "vary" funny guy, my dear Friend!


Warm Regards


Ufopolitics

[Midaztouch]

Someone please answer my questions

Related to your Liquid Solenoid application...you could use it as a "Safety Switch" at your Positive End from Batteries...operating it with a low voltage switch on a much higher resistance and finer wire triggering coil...just in case it goes "South"

Ufopolitics

Does the above statement mean that the find wire will overheat and break, severing the current from the battery to the motor? I know where to place it but how is it used as a "Safety Switch" and why?...Here are some important reasons why the solenoid is so important to me; racing applications, high voltage and I would hate to damage one of the prototype motors we will build in the near future. If we have fet damage during high voltage testing , it would cause an extreme amount of amps. The shock(s) of the extremely high amps could destroy everything. I need solenoid info clear in my mind. Safety first!

Keep it Clean and Green
Richie

[prochiro]

@ Richie
Ufo was talking about the Solenoid as a switch that would not burn closed in case fets went bad. That smaller switch would open the Solenoid using regular wire to operate. The best plan is to have your programs sense an error and shut the system down the best way for that error. As an example if one fet went bad in a race, that fet circuit would be taken out of service and an other would be turned on in its place. The solenoid would be opened by program or manually as double backup. Being in a racing vehicle that is stuck in high gear at full throttle is probably not your cup of tea.
Dana

[s e t h]

allow me to interject for a second cause i'm feeling verbose and there's something i've been thinking of adding for some time.
great work all you gentlemen...this is all fantastic research for sure.
eliminating bemf in any way can only help

the joining of the coils on iether side of the rotor pivot (to reduce amps, double the resistance and do who knows what to the magnetic field strengths) has yielded a somewhat similar to conventioneal reversing current coils...except for the fact that the circuits in this case have true idle time for the coils where they are disconnected from the saturated coils.
magnetic fields/electric currents can't really flow from one set of coils to the next instantly because the coils are not connected as one in a typical symmetricaly style setup.

from all the scope shots i've seen the collapsing field happens at the instant the current is disconnected...the collapsing field is what mushes in a typical symmetrical setup as heat and bemf to no benefit
in the original UFO designs the current/charge/saturation was only allowed to flow through the generator brushes after some delay after current ceased through the independant coils (charge/field carried past the magnet).

we still do not have the instantly collapsing field (if that is what they are trying to do) driving rotation...the original indepent coils carrying their charge past the magnets and then dumping into the generator brushes is no more as far as i can tell...well maybe its still a viable idea but in the short term it appears that apparent input amps reduction is more important.

so now we have the coils joined in pairs when part of the conventional circuit and reversing current direction after an idle period....i might have to try and draw this out but i'm sure i analysed it and came to the conclusione that the new design of linking the coils (input negative to generator positive and putting the battery between the generator and motor/power brushes) has resulted in both reversing coils and double resistance (two coils in the circuit at any given time rather than one coil...naturally leading to massive amp draw reduction)
field torque angles are still less optimal (than typical symmetric setups) but there are still idle times that the coils go through.

k well i've probably made little or no sense to anyone but i want to say one last thing.
it is my feeling that the collasping field/spike must be harnessed at the instand it wants to occur and at the obsolute best angle (for max torque)...this to me seems to logically lead to a need to have the armature coils field collasping at the exact same time as the rotor coils field is collaping...and at 90' (or as close as possible) and in a design where the field polarities are calculated to work driving the rotor in the same direction no matter if the coils are powered or collapsing.

it is my feeling the greatest benefits of 'killing the witch' will only be seen when machines are being built solely with electromagnets in the rotor and armature. fixed permanent magnets lead to the charge in the coil not being of instant rotational benefit the moment the current is cut...the charge has to be carried past the magnet to the generator brushes...(by then who knows what has been lost of the potential of the spike)

and of course i could be completely wrong and barking up totally the wrong tree ;-)
we are after all nothing but ants in the greater scheme of things, 99% similar in every way and probably patheticaly stupid compared to the most advanced inteligences in existence ... we can however give it our best shot

[Midaztouch]

Dana,

Thank you for Guidance.

We have to finish every endurance race, no matter what! We have to prove our system's endurance without a shadow of doubt. We can't shut the system down 100%. Unless, the vehicle has sustained structural damage that prevents us from moving or its a repair that can be done from inside the vehicle quickly. Our feet should never touch the ground. That way, when its time to build the VTOL, we should be all set and all Skeptics will be believers or silent.

Just some food for thoughts while you are programming gentlemen.


Keep it Clean and Green
Richie

[Ufopolitics]

Good Post...

allow me to interject for a second cause i'm feeling verbose and there's something i've been thinking of adding for some time.
great work all you gentlemen...this is all fantastic research for sure.
eliminating bemf in any way can only help

Hello and thanks Seth...

the joining of the coils on either side of the rotor pivot (to reduce amps, double the resistance and do who knows what to the magnetic field strengths) has yielded a somewhat similar to conventional reversing current coils...except for the fact that the circuits in this case have true idle time for the coils where they are disconnected from the saturated coils.
magnetic fields/electric currents can't really flow from one set of coils to the next instantly because the coils are not connected as one in a typical symmetricaly style setup.

Ok, Seth, I separated this comment in quotes in order to explain something important here...that it is obvious you are confused with...I bold out and underlined that particular statement you've made...and am sorry but it is not similar to "Conventional Reversing" (I guess you are referring to Symmetric way as "conventional")

There is a huge difference when we energize A Coil...then cut off power, collapsing its magnetic field...versus what Symmetry does...
Symmetry uses Our own electrical flow to inject it opposite to our own flow without any idle time, zero time...coils passes from one flow direction to a completely reversed FORCED flow, right after passing the brushes symmetry plane...and that reversed flow IS OUR OWN ENERGY we are feeding to crash against our own.
(I must remind you here, that Symmetric Coils in ANY Motor...is just a continuous SHORTED/LOOPED giant coil...stopping at every commutator element hook and continuing to next "sub-coil")

Now, in Asymmetry, I have spent a good deal of time on my first thread...where we dedicated to study/develop the "After Collapse" behavior of a Coil or "idling time"...and obviously you either forgot...or never read it...however, I will be more than happy to "refresh that knowledge"

When we collapse a Coil, without forcing an Immediate reverse electric flow...it NATURALLY reverses that flow at idle time...and that is The Radiant Energy Field flow...that natural reversal occurs as soon as coils leaves contact with the energizing brushes...there are a few Milli seconds that coil idles without any input, (180º at Two Brushes, 90º on Four Brushes and 60º on Cornboy's MAG3) allowing the reversed natural radiant field to develop (remember Radiant is much faster than hot currents)...so, by the time Coil hits the "Generator" Brushes it is a strong field and have a constant flow...therefore, "injecting" our flow NOW, at this stage of development and growth of the Radiant Field...will not do the same effect that Symmetry does...Symmetry kills the Radiant Field before it even gets to be born...no time at all. Radiant can not even start to develop, since there is a collision war of our own electron flows forced one against the other...

Resuming here my friend...Symmetry "CREATES" an "Artificial BEMF"...and "very smartly" using our own energy Input to do that...

from all the scope shots i've seen the collapsing field happens at the instant the current is disconnected...the collapsing field is what mushes in a typical symmetrical setup as heat and bemf to no benefit
in the original UFO designs the current/charge/saturation was only allowed to flow through the generator brushes after some delay after current ceased through the independant coils (charge/field carried past the magnet).

we still do not have the instantly collapsing field (if that is what they are trying to do) driving rotation...the original indepent coils carrying their charge past the magnets and then dumping into the generator brushes is no more as far as i can tell...well maybe its still a viable idea but in the short term it appears that apparent input amps reduction is more important.

I hope that you understood my first part...as it contains many answers here...but I will use this as a resume...

Yes, that Spike happens as soon as coils get disconnected ...I suppose you are referring to a Solid State Coil or Inductor...or to the Asymmetric Machines Coils...and again, I refresh what I wrote above...Symmetry creates a FALSE/ARTIFICIAL/FORCED B EMF...Not after "any disconnection" since it never happens in Symmetry...do you understand this difference?

And YES, lowering Amperage draw is "very required" to satisfy the Audience who once said..."UFO Motors are just a High Amperage draw motor...that of course delivers a high torque and high speed..." as also to contradict the existing classic physics laws...that sustain the Symmetric Models as a "locked in time" technology...

so now we have the coils joined in pairs when part of the conventional circuit and reversing current direction after an idle period....i might have to try and draw this out but i'm sure i analysed it and came to the conclusione that the new design of linking the coils (input negative to generator positive and putting the battery between the generator and motor/power brushes) has resulted in both reversing coils and double resistance (two coils in the circuit at any given time rather than one coil...naturally leading to massive amp draw reduction)
field torque angles are still less optimal (than typical symmetric setups) but there are still idle times that the coils go through.

See Seth, now you are anticipating conclusions in above statement...and you are wrong...we are not "doubling resistance" at any point here...since we are "feeding following a NATURAL flow"...and not crashing against our own flow...does this makes sense to you?...do You Understand the Difference between this two?

Amperage draw is reduced because we are feeding with just ONE SAME PULSED SIGNAL (referring to our new set up with Arduino/Monster Pulser/Imperial and Dana's Codes based on My Off/Dead Times Channels/Signals Design)...at different angles through time...and in order to do that we must "Fraction" that Signal in as many "Channels" as the system requires...and inject them at sequentially strategic points creating a "Virtually Rotational Signal"...but in the end...is just one feed...at different times/space/angles...

k well i've probably made little or no sense to anyone but i want to say one last thing.
it is my feeling that the collasping field/spike must be harnessed at the instand it wants to occur and at the obsolute best angle (for max torque)...this to me seems to logically lead to a need to have the armature coils field collasping at the exact same time as the rotor coils field is collaping...and at 90' (or as close as possible) and in a design where the field polarities are calculated to work driving the rotor in the same direction no matter if the coils are powered or collapsing.

it is my feeling the greatest benefits of 'killing the witch' will only be seen when machines are being built solely with electromagnets in the rotor and armature. fixed permanent magnets lead to the charge in the coil not being of instant rotational benefit the moment the current is cut...the charge has to be carried past the magnet to the generator brushes...(by then who knows what has been lost of the potential of the spike)

and of course i could be completely wrong and barking up totally the wrong tree ;-)
we are after all nothing but ants in the greater scheme of things, 99% similar in every way and probably patheticaly stupid compared to the most advanced inteligences in existence ... we can however give it our best shot

The advantages of using Wound Stators is -of course- greater than permanent magnets set ups , since, besides there is not magnetic constant drag...they are scalable to any size...as it allow Us, to not only pulse our Rotor Coils...but also our Stator Coils...then a larger Radiant Field gets generated in the whole Structured Machine...

On a separate note...I believe you have some mixed up terms/concepts here....Rotor and Armature are exactly the same thing...


No, You did make a lot of sense...As It is great to have this type of posts!!...It helps a lot to others trying to understand this -not too simple- technology...as also to "see" what Symmetry really is once again...but viewed from different stand points...so, thanks for this post Seth!...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Cornboy 555]

High Amps.

Hello UFO, and all,

@ Seth, i also wish to thank you for your post, good to see you back.

Trying to please the high amp draw Audience, has taken the imperial builds, to a different level, and i believe these excellent replicators will run those gen heads as required.

I'm sure when this is achieved, some members will get back to testing different ways to use the reverse Radiant flow to all our advantages. Who knows where a series Resonate reverse flow might take us.

Duncan is trying to teach us about the X6 power house, perhaps if this info ever sinks in to my brain we could have a hybrid technology with our UFO rotating transformers.

Just thinking out loud, Cornboy.

[arch chicken]

that new thread

HI every one!!!!

@UFO

sir, my congrats on all the replications going on under you tutalege....
i read about the new thread, and now humbly ask the master
if it allready is on, could you be so kind as to direct this lost fowl to that wonderfull thread?

another thing, the desighn and construction of a dedicated assymetric generator, will this be described in the new thread?

your humble slave.....ARCH CHICKEN

thank you!!!!