My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

Welcome to Parallel Connection...

Hi UFO,

Against your better judgement I wound my 16 pole 2 brush treadmill motor because when I looked at the 12p diagram and compared it with my own 16p diagram when grabbing 5 poles, it seemed to me that it would run.
I hooked the commutators to fire at 180deg from coil.

You were right as far as I can tell at this point. When I tried to run it........
It behaved like it was totally dead. No buzz no heat no spark DEAD!

I decided to exhaust hookup possibilities and brush adjustments.

I found a way to hook it up and it runs like a stallion.

Apparently the gen output is canceled but it has the same characteristics as my little black asym motor. Violent acceleration for example.
Amp draw seems like other motors that I've built.
I've got to do some finishing before is "done".

Here is a link to a simple pic of my hook up.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zpj4076dxd...0PER%20END.pdf

Brushes are accessible from outside and go straight in.

When you have time it will be interesting to hear how it looks to you.

bro d

PS Did I depart from the normally departed? LOL

Hello Donald,


Sorry it took a while to get back at you...was busy with Dana's Imperial and some "Pentagon Affairs"...lol


Ok, according to your drawing you are injecting power to Both Gates, which we call "Dual Parallel Connection"...Input and Output, following the way they "naturally" reverse at output...yes, that is the top performance of this Machines external hook up, however, the commutators tend to heat up much faster this way...very strong running and top RPM's though...sacrificing the return energy...

I have explained before that connection could be used as a "Passing Gear" or Turbo-Boost Mode, when applying it to vehicles as power trains.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Donald Haas]

Hi again Mr UFO,
I blew out the windings on my 16pole and when I took it apart I saw that
one of the brushes was not coming down freely so there was no contact most likely, when it wa running.

Let me rewind it and and get back to you. Don't give it any time for now.
I hope this isn't late because of your so busy.

bro d

Hi UFO,
I rewound the armature of my 16P, 2 brush tread mill motor
and corrected the brush problem. It seems to run well with standard hookup.
I was using double paralllel because of brush problem.
The brushes are perpendicular to the center of the stator mags and
firing pair is 180deg opposite of motor brush.

I put in wedges but have not epoxied the windings yet.
So have yet to push it hard.

This was a 1.5HP continuous duty motor.

Grabbing 5 poles allows the pair to reach the opposite stator at the ends just like the 12 pole while grabbing 4.

There are discrepancies that you will see but at present the motor will do 1000rpm at 6v into. Quite sensitive. I'll report more after the windings are fully secured.

bro d

[Cornboy 555]

Thinking out loud.

Hello UFO
I am doing some thinking and it seems as though you may be alluding to one of two ideas. Ether larger diameter or maybe a flywheel? That may be too simple, I am also waiting to see what your Idea is.
I set the Imperial up as in the diagram and added 12 more volts for a total of 48 volts. Fets have no heat, fan not required. Amp draw is only 5 ,(five), amps at tops and almost no sparking. Both commutators are barely warm. That is the good news. RPM at full open throttle was 1950.??? A good year but not for RPM. Where are my amps? Is it possible that diodes are limiting in some way?

Hello DANA, and UFO, i may be clutching at straws, or speaking out of turn here, but if input and output brushes could be made adjustable on the imperial set up, you may see an increase in RPM and power, especially when output brushes are adjusted in relation to input brushes.

Weather it would be worth the time and effort, is another thing altogether.

Best regards, Cornboy.

[Ufopolitics]

Nope, You do got something there...

Hello DANA, and UFO, i may be clutching at straws, or speaking out of turn here, but if input and output brushes could be made adjustable on the imperial set up, you may see an increase in RPM and power, especially when output brushes are adjusted in relation to input brushes.

Weather it would be worth the time and effort, is another thing altogether.

Best regards, Cornboy.

Hello Cornboy,

Yes, I would not say you are off at all.

I have been testing all day today...I am running with a 60 Volt 5 Batteries Bank, got to 2790-2860 RPM's at 12 Amps...damn brother, just less than 400 RPM's to get there...so Meter will not show error code.

Three 500 Watts Lamps are brightening and heating up...

I have burnt/shorted two NTE576's...they get extremely hot...so I switched Connection to a Full Bridge higher capacity diodes...and they are fine now...The other two diodes I am using to collect the reversed flow and send it back to Battery Bank (red wire)...shown at picture below

[IMG][/IMG]

So I was taking Amps measurements on both ends to P8 and P22 and the readings are NOT even at all there...at P8 it shows around 2.5 to 3.5 Amps...while at P22 shows from 10 to 11. something...and the thing here have to do with the rotation sense Machine is on...which is CCW...so P22 is the "closing/end" Gate, therefore, it collects/sums all Energy from all previous interactions.

After I read your post...I realize yes...we need to adjust timing, take it to a more critical angle, delivering more aggressive forces, that would get Us at higher RPM's ...but, as you have mentioned...and I have explained above...there needs to be some adjustment done, in order that P22 does not take All the Load to itself, as it will lower its amperage value...and that could be done by moving its brushes further away from P1/closer to P15...then it will have less traveling/less energy collecting...not a simple operation to do though...have to take apart everything...and drill new holes for P22 on both caps...




Regards


Ufopolitics

[Cornboy 555]

Bright Lights Comin' UP.

Hello Cornboy,

Yes, I would not say you are off at all.

I have been testing all day today...I am running with a 60 Volt 5 Batteries Bank, got to 2790-2860 RPM's at 12 Amps...damn brother, just less than 400 RPM's to get there...so Meter will not show error code.

Three 500 Watts Lamps are brightening and heating up...

I have burnt/shorted two NTE576's...they get extremely hot...so I switched Connection to a Full Bridge higher capacity diodes...and they are fine now...The other two diodes I am using to collect the reversed flow and send it back to Battery Bank (red wire)...shown at picture below

[IMG][/IMG]

So I was taking Amps measurements on both ends to P8 and P22 and the readings are NOT even at all there...at P8 it shows around 2.5 to 3.5 Amps...while at P22 shows from 10 to 11. something...and the thing here have to do with the rotation sense Machine is on...which is CCW...so P22 is the "closing/end" Gate, therefore, it collects/sums all Energy from all previous interactions.

After I read your post...I realize yes...we need to adjust timing, take it to a more critical angle, delivering more aggressive forces, that would get Us at higher RPM's ...but, as you have mentioned...and I have explained above...there needs to be some adjustment done, in order that P22 does not take All the Load to itself, as it will lower its amperage value...and that could be done by moving its brushes further away from P1/closer to P15...then it will have less traveling/less energy collecting...not a simple operation to do though...have to take apart everything...and drill new holes for P22 on both caps...




Regards


Ufopolitics

Jesssuss, you never say never, UFO, good work, a couple of things,

is the bridge you are using, ultrafast, and what is it's amp rating?

One thing that may help get her all out, and way infront of the witch is just two Cree SiC diodes, probably C3D20060D would suit, they are 600V 28A and Digikey seem to have the best price.

Hope this helps, and good luck, best wishes, Cornboy.

[Ufopolitics]

Jesssuss, you never say never, UFO, good work, a couple of things,

is the bridge you are using, ultrafast, and what is it's amp rating?

One thing that may help get her all out, and way infront of the witch is just two Cree SiC diodes, probably C3D20060D would suit, they are 600V 28A and Digikey seem to have the best price.

Hope this helps, and good luck, best wishes, Cornboy.

Hello Cornboy,

The Bridge is this one here:

http://www.nteinc.com/specs/5300to53...nte5346_48.pdf


However, the bridge is not the cause for the higher amperage at P22...I switch connectors at bridge...still same reading on other side of P22...that takes the bridge off to be the cause...problem is in the Machine/Connection.

I have also disconnected the positive return cable...same deal...

The Diodes are just there to avoid the positive voltage generated at Output Gates (within the Coils) to leak back at negative end of Input Main gates P1-P15.

However, I feel more comfortable having to raise the RPM's at very low amperage draw...rather than bringing it down from 7000 RPM's and much higher amperage...that, can only be done like I proposed a while back...pulsing all four, or at least two channels with a dead time...then John Stone created the Monster Pulser...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Cornboy 555]

OK

Hello Cornboy,

The Bridge is this one here:

http://www.nteinc.com/specs/5300to53...nte5346_48.pdf


However, the bridge is not the cause for the higher amperage at P22...I switch connectors at bridge...still same reading on other side of P22...that takes the bridge off to be the cause...problem is in the Machine/Connection.

I have also disconnected the positive return cable...same deal...

The Diodes are just there to avoid the positive voltage generated at Output Gates (within the Coils) to leak back at negative end of Input Main gates P1-P15.

However, I feel more comfortable having to raise the RPM's at very low amperage draw...rather than bringing it down from 7000 RPM's and much higher amperage...that, can only be done like I proposed a while back...pulsing all four, or at least two channels with a dead time...then John Stone created the Monster Pulser...


Regards


Ufopolitics

Hello UFO, OK understand, i think your approach of bringing machine up to spec rather than having to tame it down is great.

I think also, that the JS Monster is the way to go, from DANA's reports sofar, it seems to easily do the job required, and can be triggered with many different options, and multiples of these drivers can pulse gates in a programmed sequence of events.

If time constraints etc prohibit you from building The Monsters, i can build you a pair and ship to you. i could also feel good that i have done something for you for a change.

Please let me know.

Looking at the clock it's probably time to put your Baby to bed for the night,i'm just getting started on filing out epoxy on rotor it's 3:32 in the afternoon here.

Warm Regards Cornboy.

[Ufopolitics]

Yes Indeed...

Hello UFO, OK understand, i think your approach of bringing machine up to spec rather than having to tame it down is great.

I think also, that the JS Monster is the way to go, from DANA's reports sofar, it seems to easily do the job required, and can be triggered with many different options, and multiples of these drivers can pulse gates in a programmed sequence of events.

If time constraints etc prohibit you from building The Monsters, i can build you a pair and ship to you. i could also feel good that i have done something for you for a change.

Please let me know.

Looking at the clock it's probably time to put your Baby to bed for the night,i'm just getting started on filing out epoxy on rotor it's 3:32 in the afternoon here.

Warm Regards Cornboy.

Cornboy,


This Machines have so many ways to externally connect them...and every connection will deliver new data, new parameters...all different in the end.

The Monster is A way to go, but at least there must be pulsed "Off Time" two channels/two gates...two modules...do not know if it would be P1-P15...or P8-P1...Or as many possibilities we could search-test...with the limitations of just two modules.
The Imperial/Monster requires not only -at least- a couple of modules...but also the Microprocessor (Arduino) plus all the software programming...it is not a simple way to make it happen...but definitively it IS A Way.

Thanks for your offer, my friend...but it is not that...

While some of you guys are working with the Monster Pulser and Arduino...I rather stay down here...struggling to make it happen with the least of spending...with little resources...

Once that you discover what I have...my friend, your life changes...it seems like is "part of the whole picture"...

Looking at the clock it's probably time to put your Baby to bed for the night,i'm just getting started on filing out epoxy on rotor it's 3:32 in the afternoon here.

Time has become also a "Non Important Parameter" in my life ...my friend...when it comes to test and research...

I know easily we can make this whole thing happen, as I am also sure I am writing here to you right now...

And We WILL.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Cornboy 555]

Slow But Sure.

There is no Doubt, whatsoever from this end UFO, i know it's only a matter of time.

I have built pulse motors in the past, but your designs of Vortex, asymmetric windings, with seperate coils, and dual commutators, i think is the best possible platform for a breakthrough success.

As you know, i am a big fan of mechanical switching, and properly built commutators and brushes can last for thousands of hours of opperation, which relates to lots of travelling miles in an EV, "so what" if you need to replace a brush set every few years, and two bearings every ten years, small price to pay comparred to gas engine servicing!.

Unfortunatly, no one is going to pay any of us working here a full time salary to progress this quickly, as open source has very little opportunity to Capitalise on, so we will just have to push on at the pace we can afford.

Regards Friend Cornboy.

[Raphael37]

It would be a Great, Awesome Machine!

Regards

Ufopolitics

There is no Doubt, whatsoever from this end UFO, i know it's only a matter of time.

I have built pulse motors in the past, but your designs of Vortex, asymmetric windings, with seperate coils, and dual commutators, i think is the best possible platform for a breakthrough success.

As you know, i am a big fan of mechanical switching, and properly built commutators and brushes can last for thousands of hours of opperation, which relates to lots of travelling miles in an EV, "so what" if you need to replace a brush set every few years, and two bearings every ten years, small price to pay comparred to gas engine servicing!.

Unfortunatly, no one is going to pay any of us working here a full time salary to progress this quickly, as open source has very little opportunity to Capitalise on, so we will just have to push on at the pace we can afford.

Regards Friend Cornboy.

I agree the designs should be based on asymmetry.




This symbol from China suggests that Ufopolitics is on the right path with his asymmetric design IDEAS!

namaste

[prochiro]

Dead time

Hello All @UFO @ Cornboy
I have been thinking about that dead time also. At first I thought we could do it with a second or as UFO said, four, monster circuits. That Arduino's are capable of producing a delayed cycle but that will not solve the problem I believe. The reason it will not do it is because the timing of rotor commutator contact time is much larger than frequency on time in a relative sense. If we take the idea of changing the duty cycle between the two there may be some benefit but more likely a push pull, maybe.

I am short of heat sinks now but will try to get some more and put a second Monster on the second line. what I am thinking is that by having both at same frequency but altering duty cycle we may have the same effect, in terms of volume of amps, as shortening or offsetting a brush. I am also thinking that when you say move two brushes, you are not talking about two brushes as on P8, both ends, but are talking about at the rear of P8 and P22. I may have some numbers messed up here but you get what I am (thinking). I am later today going to raise the voltage step by step on the Imperial up to 84 volts, but if you get higher amps (I run at 5 amps on 48v and you get 10 amps at 60v) at
higher volts, we may be heading back to vary high amps with the added baggage of a lot of batteries.
All this is just my thinking at this point and is not proven fact....

Dana

[JohnStone]

Pondering on pulse generation for two channels!

It is now not so easy like one single signal with variable frequency and duty cycle. Seems to be simple but will be deliberately complex. I am confused about the true requirements.

Is the goal i.e. to have 2 channels pulsed alternated while avoiding any simultaneous pulsing (overlapping of pulses).

The dead time between pulse CH1 und pulse CH2 will be directly influenced by duty cycle.
Is this the scheme we want to have?

What is the frequency requried regarding switching of commutator segments?
i.e. 16 segments / 300rpm -> 800Hz motor switching.
Shall we switch the pulser faster?

I'd like to prepare an Ardunio program. Please help with some requirement input.
JS

[prochiro]

@ JohnStone
If what UFO is thinking is that ultimately wants a delay on the second line from the first, he is actually talking about a real off time on the second and not just a 180 frequency switch. At the frequency needed to run the machine, there are many on/off frequency cycles per commutator bar. If I am correct, and I may not be, he may be talking about a real delay, possibly triggered by sensor. In this manner, each commutator bar would have to be hit with a burst of many frequency cycles for a limited time and offset or delayed from the previous circuit. I think this can only be done in a practical manner by moving specific brushes just a bit. I do not think he is talking about a frequency delay, but is talking about a total current on time delay on the second or reversed line thru the motor. I agree that more clarification is needed.
Dana

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Dana, John Stone

@ JohnStone
If what UFO is thinking is that ultimately wants a delay on the second line from the first, he is actually talking about a real off time on the second and not just a 180 frequency switch. At the frequency needed to run the machine, there are many on/off frequency cycles per commutator bar. If I am correct, and I may not be, he may be talking about a real delay, possibly triggered by sensor. In this manner, each commutator bar would have to be hit with a burst of many frequency cycles for a limited time and offset or delayed from the previous circuit. I think this can only be done in a practical manner by moving specific brushes just a bit. I do not think he is talking about a frequency delay, but is talking about a total current on time delay on the second or reversed line thru the motor. I agree that more clarification is needed.
Dana

Hello Dana, Hello John,

Ok, here is a simple test for you (Dana) to make ...as it will physically show you what I mean...

[IMG][/IMG]

As you can see, we are only using here P1 to excite P8,P22 (I have used just one diode for simplicity of diagram...you could use two, one for each gate better) and connected all three gates through SW1...

We have left separated form this circuit to P15...and You are going to pulse P15 with your Monster Pulser.

What would happen is...You turn on SW1, Motor gets in the low amperage low RPM's (1950)...cool commutators, etc...
Then you start SLOWLY hitting the Monster...and would notice a huge jump in Rotor behavior...as it will do spark high on P15 Brushes...please reduce all parameters at start up, all...then start going up slowly watching RPM's and Amperage...as Commutator and your FET's Temperature.

Please make a video to show Us this testing whenever you could get to it...and many thanks Dana!!


What I wanna demonstrate here...is that if we switch/pulse/turn on/off a Gate while keeping a constant rotation...we WILL get an acceleration or deceleration there,depending on how we "administer pulses feed" and here just using ONE gate P15, to do this...
Now, this is NOT the FINAL way to go here...We must maintain an EQUAL DISTRIBUTION of Pulses...through ALL FOUR is the PERFECT WAY to do this...

Regards to all


Ufopolitics

[prochiro]

@UFO
I believe that the second gate you are talking about for a diode is between P15 and pulse, correct? Will also start at 12 volts and work up again. Should be sometime tomorrow nite or early Tuesday I hope.
Dana