My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[sampojo]

Cutting Magnets

Post 1965 worth a repost especially about the dust part!!!!

You know Ceramic Magnets could be cut?...All you need is a Fine Diamond Blade, (NOT Carbide!) and inject a mixture of water and grease (lithium) as a coolant while cutting...and first you cut shallow lines (@1.0 then 2.0 mm) around area to be cut, on both sides and all around first...lightly while shutting the coolant (this will be your Trace Cut)...then go for it evenly...I have cut many ceramic magnets...and curved ones.

Your "Trace Cut" prevents in the event it cracks on you... it will "go" through those primary lines...then you could use same blade to edge/sand borders...
Got to wear a Heavy Duty Breathing Mask to do this!!...That magnetic dust is a Killer!!

Ufopolitics

This really jogged my brain, I have a diamond saw for cutting ceramics, granite you name it for my tile work, just pours water over the cut. Cost like about 80 buck at Home Depot. Everything is soaked. Shouldn't need a mask?

[sampojo]

Asym Quad pentagon adaptable to 10 pole?

Hi Ufo,

Here is your quad pent bent Y for a 20-pole:


I want to get it all on this little 1 3/4" 10- pole rotor, moving up to a 4 brush pair design. I propose using the quad pent bent Y (Quad for the brushes, in my case ) but just having the poles for 2 pentagons. The bend comes when using 4 brush sets, right?

Here is what I propose:



Is this a good idea?

Thanks Joe

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Sampojo

Hi Ufo,

Here is your quad pent bent Y for a 20-pole:


I want to get it all on this little 1 3/4" 10- pole rotor, moving up to a 4 brush pair design. I propose using the quad pent bent Y (Quad for the brushes, in my case ) but just having the poles for 2 pentagons. The bend comes when using 4 brush sets, right?

Here is what I propose:



Is this a good idea?

Thanks Joe

Hello Sampojo,

According to what you wrote...You have a 10 Poles Four Brush and Four Stators?

Is that correct?

You can not add four brushes without having four stators.

For a Ten (10)Pole I have shown so far all related to Two Stators, Two Brushes:

[IMG][/IMG]

And...

[IMG][/IMG]

Honestly, the P10 (First Diagram) is a much stronger design than the second one.

Related to what you want to do...it must be verified on CAD first...that would be the only way to know if it will work at every interaction/angle.




Regards


Ufopolitics

P.D: When you upload pic's here, Copy it with "IMG Code" not "IMG Thumb Code" or any other on Photobucket...can not be seen the image of what you want to arrange Diagram.

Thanks

[sampojo]

Hello Sampojo,

According to what you wrote...You have a 10 Poles Four Brush and Four Stators?

Is that correct?

You can not add four brushes without having four stators.

Related to what you want to do...it must be verified on CAD first...that would be the only way to know if it will work at every interaction/angle.

Yes definitely am using 4 stators, going to cut the magnets to fit with a ceramic wet saw. So just reducing the quad asym 20 pole down to 10 with each resulting coil sub-tending half as many poles is not a given, is what you are saying. Hope this upload comes out bigger.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I observe that the Asym. Quad Pentagon must use the same winding instructions as for the Dual Pentagon Y (5-pole), i.e. it will require winding all south inner sub-coils first, and using spools to hold wires. Once complete then commence larger N coils on top.

thank in advance, Joe

[Ufopolitics]

Yes it will work then...

Yes definitely am using 4 stators, going to cut the magnets to fit with a ceramic wet saw. So just reducing the quad asym 20 pole down to 10 with each resulting coil sub-tending half as many poles is not a given, is what you are saying. Hope this upload comes out bigger.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I observe that the Asym. Quad Pentagon must use the same winding instructions as for the Dual Pentagon Y (5-pole), i.e. it will require winding all south inner sub-coils first, and using spools to hold wires. Once complete then commence larger N coils on top.

thank in advance, Joe

Hello Joe,

Yes, picture looks awesome now!
It definitively will work then, you are just reducing it, scaling it to a Ten Pole structure, I can clearly see it now.

Yes, same winding method, just a bit more clever, since you will have Two Sets/Groups of South Coils first, and must keep them marked in order not to confuse them, once to extend to outer North Coils...

Should be a very nice Machine.

The Diamond blade I use is a relatively small one compared to the big sized one used for cutting Tiles...it costs around half of what you are talking about (@$40.00)...So, be careful since a bigger blade cuts much faster than a small one, as also is heavier to maneuver around a small piece of magnet.

The "key" is to make first a Light "Trace Cut", and keep going deeper EVENLY...trying not to stay in same area for too long.
Also the way you press/hold magnet is important, not pressing it in order it create stress on either pieces, forcing to crack it before it divides in the desired cut.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[sampojo]

Great news

Thanks, Ufo, built my endplates and cut the motor body today, out with those bushings, nice set of skate board bearings instead. brush redesign next. spent more time refurbing some shop equipment. So this is really an asymmetric Dual Pentagon Bent Y Quad Stator design. I think I will call it a DuQu Bent Y. ;-)



I want build a generator on the same core, but need some more magnets, and I got lucky at the one junk yard before. Not to much available to buy arc magnets on the cheap online anywhere that I could find.

For a 10-pole generator, Can I adapt the Standard 5-pole RS winding to the 10-pole (with 4 stators)?

Looks like if a coil-pair sub-tends 4-poles (instead of the usual 2), it could be sub-divided into 3 sub-coils nicely.

Thanks,
Joe

[Ufopolitics]

P10 Quad Pentagons

Thanks, Ufo, built my endplates and cut the motor body today, out with those bushings, nice set of skate board bearings instead. brush redesign next. spent more time refurbing some shop equipment. So this is really an asymmetric Dual Pentagon Bent Y Quad Stator design. I think I will call it a DuQu Bent Y. ;-)



I want build a generator on the same core, but need some more magnets, and I got lucky at the one junk yard before. Not to much available to buy arc magnets on the cheap online anywhere that I could find.

For a 10-pole generator, Can I adapt the Standard 5-pole RS winding to the 10-pole (with 4 stators)?

Looks like if a coil-pair sub-tends 4-poles (instead of the usual 2), it could be sub-divided into 3 sub-coils nicely.

Thanks,
Joe

Hello Sampojo,

Spent all morning doing this...
It is not the same as you change all Armature structure...when you reduce the number of poles by half, must realize the "Y" Pattern "bending" will be of a more critical angle(narrower). So You MUST ALWAYS consider Stators positioning, as their bisectors related to the interacting (firing) coils at that "momentum".

It is quite different from the P5 as also from the P20...it's got its own "different look"...

[IMG][/IMG]

Explaining Diagram:

The way I chose to number Coil Pairs, was in a sequence at CCW(Starting by P1...)...and NOT following numbering per Pentagon's Groups, that is why I displayed the way it was done at the two smaller diagrams to the right.

I only set the Pairs at "work" related to brush contact not to populate too much diagram, avoiding confusion...

If you notice the Pairs at "Motor Action" are P1-P6 in Blue-Red, defining their "Y Pattern" delimited by magenta splines...as the Generating Stage are P4-P9, defining their Y Pattern by the turquoise splines(curves) [I did not wanted to hatch them(shade area) in diagram, so I did it at right images...AND if you notice they are "sharing operations here...meaning, the Motor Coils belong to Two Different Pentagon's group, as also the Generating stage.

Note that the Y Patterns between Generator and Motor are NOT Opposed(Mirrored) like in the P20 Design...which makes it easier to wind them all in same sequence.

Please notice I have set the stators bisectors, as also the firing coils bisectors for Motor Action, related to rotation sense.
Observe that P1-P6 Commutator Elements are "starting" to make contact with Motor brushes at that specific bisector positioning of their related Pairs...That, set up as is...is the more critical angle to obtain faster/strongest action...(remember the closer bisectors [Stator-Coils]are, the stronger...as the further away, the weaker machine would be.
They are very close and very well distributed, which will make a VERY STRONG Machine...

I was making a video related to a small dual pentagon I have built...making some testing to show you...but I stopped to do this...since I saw your post going for it...wanted to make sure you do it right...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[sampojo]

Evils of symmetry?

Wow, thanks for the redesign, didn't mean to take your time like that. I was hoping I could do a "symmetrical" downscale of the 20-pole. So you already have made a 10-pole like this? You seemed to like think the downscale might work at first... But this one you expect is much better then... That is very good. Hoping to get into some good energy return, maybe? And maybe try a pulsing circuit eventually. You didn't need to rush, I am sure I will not get into winding until I jump in the car and go back to some Tesla stomping grounds in his Westinghouse days to visit my family for Easter. When the wife drives, I wind motors...yuk, yuk.

[jeffy39]

arm. wound

Howdy All, Arm. wound, still waiting for my machinist friend.

[Ufopolitics]

Down-scaling...

Wow, thanks for the redesign, didn't mean to take your time like that. I was hoping I could do a "symmetrical" downscale of the 20-pole. So you already have made a 10-pole like this? You seemed to like think the downscale might work at first... But this one you expect is much better then... That is very good. Hoping to get into some good energy return, maybe? And maybe try a pulsing circuit eventually. You didn't need to rush, I am sure I will not get into winding until I jump in the car and go back to some Tesla stomping grounds in his Westinghouse days to visit my family for Easter. When the wife drives, I wind motors...yuk, yuk.

Hello Sampojo,

No problem my pleasure, as there are also many around that have ten poles and like to build them...

The thing about down-scaling is that you MUST consider Stators when designing the Pairs positioning.

I saw clearly what you were trying to do...but you were missing stators, so decided to take it into CAD...And that is my best result.

Related to how much they produce...make the following test:

On your small pentagon, five poles, connect a Diode (I highly recommend the NTE 576 because of being an Ultrafast Rectifier) from Batteries Negative to Motor Gate Input batteries,like this:

Batt (-)--(point of measure)--l<l---(-)Motor Negative In.

Now measure from your Motor Negative Output and the Battery side of Diode, and see what you get. (If You use the Negative probe from DMM in that side of diode...you will get a negative reading...still will be there...


Let me know.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

That Imperial looks grreat!

Howdy All, Arm. wound, still waiting for my machinist friend.

Hello Jeffy,

Wow, nice winding my friend! excellent!


I expanded the commutator gaps on mine...still have it apart, I cleaned it real good and is ready to be mounted, but was working on another video I want to upload...

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Donald Haas]

Commutator Heat

Hi All,
It seems to me (famous first and last words - lol ) that we must deal with the heat issue at the comm's.

Decided to check out splitting the positive into a charging battery to draw some of the heat away from the comm's.

PL did this on motor secrets and the motor ran faster with less amps and the battery charged. I verified his example for myself with a modified series wound winch motor.

I hooked up a simple circuit to my 10 pole asym motor and there is less sparking and it uses a little less amps and the battery charges with an "h" wave. This is an add on rather than a change from what we're doing.

The width of the h wave decreases as the duty cycle increases.

A sweet spot for efficient charging can be located.

I didn't check how this affects the motor gen out wattage, can easily enough.

If you have Bedini SSG experience then this is "old hat."

Here are some links to a simple circuit that I drew and used today.

PDF and Target

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wwla2pn1r1...20POSITIVE.pdf

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zec3cvwr30...POSITIVE.T3001

Also it seems that we might progress with testing of a 3 pole, no comms and IR switching. One might split the pos in resonance by placing the pulse to draw max to charge batt and still get good mechanical power.

Are there more thoughts on comm heat issue.

bro d

[prochiro]

@ Bro d
I believe you are running the motor with your monster circuit from your comments. How many fets are you using at this time if this is correct? I just have nervous jitters about running the motor until I know there is enough power to not fry the fets.
Dana

[JohnStone]

....
Here are some links to a simple circuit that I drew and used today.

PDF and Target

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wwla2pn1r1...20POSITIVE.pdf

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zec3cvwr30...POSITIVE.T3001
.....

I confess to not understand the circuit. The FET circuit seems to be incomplete. Please enlighten us
JS

[warrensk]

16 pole asymmetric Generator?

Hello all

@UFO,

Is there a better winding diagram for the 16 pole as a generator? I am unsure if there is a key difference in winding a rotor as a generator vs a motor. I will be winding a 20 pole 1000 watt motor soon too.

Warrensk