My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[jeffy39]

Imp-56 wiring

Howdy UFO, Machine, all,
I started wiring armature with 19ga and 17 turns. Wasnt happy with looks,
and probably bad technique, so carefully removed the coils, more-or-less
maintaining coil shape with tape.
Watched the videos again (several times).
I've now wired the first half, P1 thru P14 with 'fresh' wire.
Would it be advisable to straighten as best I can and re-use the wire from the
first attempt? I seem to have plenty of room in the slots, but am wondering
how the ends will be.
Currently the bottom comm is spaced downward to 23mm gap.
If I mill the pedestals that the brush-holder board sits on, it should all clear OK.
Any guidance-comments highly appreciated.
Sincerely, jw39

[machinealive]

Hello everyone.

Just an update. I burnt my controller when I tried to pulse motor, i forgot to unhook cap across bat. So I rebuilt. Hooked up to rheo in series, about 1.4 ohm, motor ran, but cooked rheo. So then I used a 16 ga coil at about .9 ohm in series, motor ran well, smooth, about 23 amps, 19 hz. neon across ds was flashing, so now hook up correct number of neon voltage protection, across ds, start testing. FINALLY. I am very busy right now, but will run a nice test, video test and upload asap. Johnstone, I will get you some scope shots of switching speed, but circuit seems to be preforming fantastic. .

@Jeffy39, It's alright to reuse wire, but if there's bends, and it takes up space, and your almost done,... but the wire just...won't....fit. That would be a drag, so be sure. It's ok if it isn't pretty, resin will secure. IMHO

[warrensk]

Finally finished my 16 pole scooter motor!

Hello All,

After having to rewire it a couple times because of some shorts, its finally done and the best part is that it works!

Heres a neat little way i was able to keep the brushes in while i mounted it onto the back end of the motor.

commutator jimmy.jpg

Heres the finished masterpeice:

16 pole scooter motor.jpg

and here is a video of it running!

Asymmetrical modified scooter motor - YouTube

I need to adjust the brushes a bit, tighten her up, and get the timing just right but she runs well.

Thanks again guys....

This replication was done with 16 feet of (i think 28 gauge?) per coil. there was roughly 17mm of space between rotor and commutator. Besides the rotors sharp edges cutting into my wire at first....I used some high temp paper from the motor i took apart and some electrical tape to ensure there wasnt any shorts. I had my volt meter hooked up to it as I was wrapping it to hear if there were any shorts with the diode setting.

I will be working on making a pulse circuit shortly and seeing what outputs i get from the generator side.

[Ufopolitics]

That is a very nice Motor!

Hello All,

After having to rewire it a couple times because of some shorts, its finally done and the best part is that it works!

Heres a neat little way i was able to keep the brushes in while i mounted it onto the back end of the motor.

[ATTACH]12964[/ATTACH]

Heres the finished masterpeice:

[ATTACH]12965[/ATTACH]

and here is a video of it running!

Asymmetrical modified scooter motor - YouTube

I need to adjust the brushes a bit, tighten her up, and get the timing just right but she runs well.

Thanks again guys....

This replication was done with 16 feet of (i think 28 gauge?) per coil. there was roughly 17mm of space between rotor and commutator. Besides the rotors sharp edges cutting into my wire at first....I used some high temp paper from the motor i took apart and some electrical tape to ensure there wasnt any shorts. I had my volt meter hooked up to it as I was wrapping it to hear if there were any shorts with the diode setting.

I will be working on making a pulse circuit shortly and seeing what outputs i get from the generator side.

Hello Warrensk,


[IMG][/IMG]

Wow, very nice winding!...very well set and wrapped...I would say a Master piece..

Yes, I see you still have to adjust brushes/Pairs bisectors closer to Stators Bisectors, can tell because of start pick up speed is kind of slow still.

Those Scooters Motors come with 28 gauge?...it is 24 Volts right?


But, anyways, wanted to tell you it looks great and very neat!

And yes, it works!


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Sorry about your loss Friend!

Hello everyone.

Just an update. I burnt my controller when I tried to pulse motor, i forgot to unhook cap across bat. So I rebuilt. Hooked up to rheo in series, about 1.4 ohm, motor ran, but cooked rheo. So then I used a 16 ga coil at about .9 ohm in series, motor ran well, smooth, about 23 amps, 19 hz. neon across ds was flashing, so now hook up correct number of neon voltage protection, across ds, start testing. FINALLY. I am very busy right now, but will run a nice test, video test and upload asap. Johnstone, I will get you some scope shots of switching speed, but circuit seems to be preforming fantastic. .

@Jeffy39, It's alright to reuse wire, but if there's bends, and it takes up space, and your almost done,... but the wire just...won't....fit. That would be a drag, so be sure. It's ok if it isn't pretty, resin will secure. IMHO

Oh Machine,


Sorry about your loss my Dear Friend!...

But it is GREAT to know you finally got it going!!...

Hoping to see that Beast finally tamed!!

But not a piece of cake Uh?...


Warm Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Just like Machine said...

Howdy UFO, Machine, all,
I started wiring armature with 19ga and 17 turns. Wasnt happy with looks,
and probably bad technique, so carefully removed the coils, more-or-less
maintaining coil shape with tape.
Watched the videos again (several times).
I've now wired the first half, P1 thru P14 with 'fresh' wire.
Would it be advisable to straighten as best I can and re-use the wire from the
first attempt? I seem to have plenty of room in the slots, but am wondering
how the ends will be.
Currently the bottom comm is spaced downward to 23mm gap.
If I mill the pedestals that the brush-holder board sits on, it should all clear OK.
Any guidance-comments highly appreciated.
Sincerely, jw39

Hello Jeffy!


That is grreat!...You almost have that Monster done!

Now regarding wire bent...if you have new wire...just use it...

It is exactly like Machine Alive wrote...bent wire will take lots of room...and at the end you will suffer to get in the closing pairs.

The way I straighten it is with my nails, pressing hard and using my nails a the roller...they get hot...oh, not the wires...mi nails...


Regards and hoping to see it running and roaring soon!...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Thanks for Posting!

WoW! Just Imagine.. Just imagine.. :

Winding of an Electric DC Motor - YouTube

Hello and Welcome here Valllhalla!


Yes...Imagine...just Imagine...!


Very nice video...now watch this ones...

ABB Modular traction motors - A new era in traction motor design - YouTube

EMD D32 Generator test run - YouTube


Nice Uh?...Imagine some more?


Regards


Ufopolitics

[4lpha1]

Hello 4alpha,


This Machine are known by NOT overheating at all.
If Your Replication is doing it,could be due to:

1- A high mechanical drag, due to misalignment of either bushings, shaft or body.
2- Bad Timing due to: Incorrect set at brushes, misalignment of commutators or too low resistance in Coils.

You have to measure the exact area, where the heat is being generated by applying a nice directed by LASER and Infrared Temp Sensor...

I don't have an infrared thermometer, or the $100 to get one right now. Soon, though. I've made sure the motor is aligned in the casing, it's hard to keep it in place though with the clamps I have. I can't weld it together until I figure out why it's overheating and not running, though.

The heat is most definitely starting from the coils. The commutators also get very hot, as do the brushes. I think this is due to the fact that it's hard to start.

You must understand very clear the Bisector Timing Alignment between Stators and Firing Interval Timing of Pairs or Coils.

If the timing is too ahead, meaning, bisectors too far apart, motor would be weaker and will get hotter.

I understand how bisector timing alignment works. I've adjusted the brushes and commutators as well as I can.

On the other hand,

Why do you have to put a resistor at Output?

Have you tried to run it without that output resistor...and see if it still heats up?

It is obvious you have not read all my previous posts, where I mention that NO DIRECT SHORTED LOAD should be applied in small motors (small number of poles) to Output gates.

I believe you stated that a load should be applied across the generator brushes so that the energy trapped in the coils would dissipate. Am I incorrect?

This Machines ALL, have Intermittent Short Circuit, NOT Constantly at 100% of times during operation like Symmetrical Motors. And that is a huge difference.



Regards


Ufopolitics

I think this may be causing my overheating issue. The motor is very hard to start and so sits and hums when current is applied. It will start if I spin it with my hand. When I spin it with my hand it feels like the magnetic fields are keeping it stationary.

I'll do more troubleshooting.

Cheers!
Cole

I've rotated one of the brush sets around ad nauseam trying to find the proper spot, but the motor is still impossible to start.

[Ufopolitics]

Hello 4lpha

I don't have an infrared thermometer, or the $100 to get one right now. Soon, though. I've made sure the motor is aligned in the casing, it's hard to keep it in place though with the clamps I have. I can't weld it together until I figure out why it's overheating and not running, though.

The Laser IR Thermometer I got was 39.99...and I believe Harbor Freight have them cheaper.
You could use a fast glue to just hold it in place...like Q Bond Compound or even crazy glue...just "tack it" at one spot...while testing rotation...No brushes pressing.

The heat is most definitely starting from the coils. The commutators also get very hot, as do the brushes. I think this is due to the fact that it's hard to start.

The "Symptoms" you are writing fall into bad alignment followed by a mechanical miss align also.

When You are firing Pairs...or single Coils like in a Three Pole...and you fire Rotor Coils Bisectors, too far away from repulsion Bisectors at Stators...Coil gets energized far too long, to the point of passing the Attraction Bisectors...where they ALL do a complete "Brake"...So Motor tends to get stock, magnetically braking...and coil energized...they will get hot, trust me.

I understand how bisector timing alignment works. I've adjusted the brushes and commutators as well as I can.

Cole, I will give it another check...

I believe you stated that a load should be applied across the generator brushes so that the energy trapped in the coils would dissipate. Am I incorrect?

You are completely correct, I did say that...but I also said not to use shorting out Loads, I recommend a CFL...Neons...etc,etc...which are NOT Short Circuit Loads.


Whenever you get your Motor working perfectly fine...and I know you will do it soon...try shorting out the outputs...and see what happens to your fully running speed motor...

I think this may be causing my overheating issue. The motor is very hard to start and so sits and hums when current is applied. It will start if I spin it with my hand. When I spin it with my hand it feels like the magnetic fields are keeping it stationary.

I'll do more troubleshooting.

Cheers!
Cole

I've rotated one of the brush sets around ad nauseam trying to find the proper spot, but the motor is still impossible to start.

I am giving you my advice...as what I think based on my knowledge and experience...However, I could be wrong...In order to be accurate I must look at it in my hands and see it...check it...then I know I will solve the issue in Two Minutes...

Here I am trying to give you my best shot Cole.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Lightworker1]

Towards Electronic RPM Meter (and Arduino)

Hello All (Greatest Team)
This goldmine asymmetric motor with capacitors waiting testing was presenting some challenges:

I could monitor temperature of the caps through the small port hole (see pic) using laser non-contact thermometer which I also used previously in my first video of Ufopolitics Radio Shack asymmetric motor .
However it was going to be little challenging to use second non-contact laser beam RPM meter at the same time (also first used in my first video).

With the view that we are soon moving towards incorporating ARDUINO in our projects, I decided to design the following ROTATIONAL SPEED SENSOR.
For these current tests on this Asymmetric Goldmine Motor I will just rely on my Frequency Meter (VICTOR VC3165).

Sadly my scope's channel 1 has become defective and channel 2 shows display but incorrect amplitude (Tek 2430A). Tek advice is not to waste money repairing 2430A as it is very old but invest in some new scope.




Here is the circuit diagram. Any improvements welcome.






Here is direct link to the CircuitLab

https://www.circuitlab.com/circuit/p...t-leds-output/



Magnet Assembly for use with the A1302 Sensor




Intended location of magnet-assembly on the Asymmetric Motor to be soon tested. Please also notice the port hole for measuring temperature of the capacitors





The port hole for measuring temperature of the capacitors using Non-Contact Lase Thermometer.






Some Calibration Data





Small quick video

https://www.dropbox.com/s/805ty5he9a...all-Sensor.MOV



Data-sheet for A1302


https://www.dropbox.com/s/tanpn4tvnh...302KLHLT-T.pdf

Now I think will be able to safely carry out tests on this current goldmine motor.

warmest regards

light

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Light!

Hello All (Greatest Team)
This goldmine asymmetric motor with capacitors waiting testing was presenting some challenges:

I could monitor temperature of the caps through the small port hole (see pic) using laser non-contact thermometer which I also used previously in my first video of Ufopolitics Radio Shack asymmetric motor .
However it was going to be little challenging to use second non-contact laser beam RPM meter at the same time (also first used in my first video).

With the view that we are soon moving towards incorporating ARDUINO in our projects, I decided to design the following ROTATIONAL SPEED SENSOR.
For these current tests on this Asymmetric Goldmine Motor I will just rely on my Frequency Meter (VICTOR VC3165).

Sadly my scope's channel 1 has become defective and channel 2 shows display but incorrect amplitude (Tek 2430A). Tek advice is not to waste money repairing 2430A as it is very old but invest in some new scope.




Here is the circuit diagram. Any improvements welcome.






Here is direct link to the CircuitLab

https://www.circuitlab.com/circuit/p...t-leds-output/



Magnet Assembly for use with the A1302 Sensor




Intended location of magnet-assembly on the Asymmetric Motor to be soon tested. Please also notice the port hole for measuring temperature of the capacitors





The port hole for measuring temperature of the capacitors using Non-Contact Lase Thermometer.






Some Calibration Data





Small quick video

https://www.dropbox.com/s/805ty5he9a...all-Sensor.MOV



Data-sheet for A1302


https://www.dropbox.com/s/tanpn4tvnh...302KLHLT-T.pdf

Now I think will be able to safely carry out tests on this current goldmine motor.

warmest regards

light

Hello Light!


Nice Work my Dear Friend!

Excellent set up with the Hall Effect Transistor/speed sensor and calibration based on Laser Tach, I believe it is pretty accurate now.

You need to display also the Factory Spec's for that Goldmine Original Motor, and I will tell you what happens...

In Symmetrical Motors, they have a range of voltages they can handle as a limit, like RS Motor could go only up to 18V and will do 18,000 RPM's no load.
If You exceed that Voltage rating, the Copper in their windings starts to go into a "fatigue", due to the high level of reversing electronic flow within their "One and Only" CLOSED LOOP Coil...so what happens is that the Virtual Symmetrical Magnetic Field that steadily causes the rotation will loose strength...while copper would be at excess temperature above their operating levels...if you keep raising V and A...it will definitively "smoke"...to a crispy toasted melted rotor.

Asymmetrical Motors, since they are OPEN LOOPS, they can handle higher V/A Ratings within the same embodiment as Original Symmetric, without causing fatigue at Copper Windings, since they are NOT FORCED to Reverse V Polarity therefore, Electronic Collision does NOT Occur there...and Coils get a "brake", an Idling Time where they dissipate flow through their output gates or re send energy back to input...while keeping it stored within their magnetic fields without reversed collision disturbance...That is why they can "afford" to keep performing excellent, at much Higher Voltage/Amperage levels than Symmetrical ones.

Now since you have Caps at each Coil/Pairs the Energy stored within Coils Magnetic Fields by Input have an Assisting Friend...the Cap. And they will start a "Dance"...a back and forth flow of Energy between them at each parallel Coil-Cap Circuit. That will definitively enhance their ability to maintain a stronger magnetic field within...as also a stronger energy flow, not in "decay mode" anymore...

Your little Caps should not get hot...AS LONG AS they can handle the Amount of Incoming flow from Rotor coils at the pulsed rate you will be Inputting into their Gates.
IF you EXCEED that rate...then they will heat up and blow.

Have you ran a linear/straight feed Test to the Asymmetrical Motor?
It would be good to connect a Cap at Output Gates, a pretty good capacity cap, like 2200 uF...in order that excess flow could be hosted/stored there in case you reach an overflow...and check-measure that Cap output...

Warm Regards my Dear Friend, and eagerly waiting for the Test on that Motor...


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

21 Poles...

Hello Ufopolitics ,

Thank you very much UFO for freely sharing all your hard work with us . I have followed your threads for the past few months on the side lines. I'm from Bulgaria. I would like to replicate your IMPERIAL Asymmetric Motor. Unfortunately, the UFO Kit can not be delivered to Bulgaria. I don't want to waste your time.
Let's get to the point. I just want to do my part. I've got a DC motor from Bulgarian manufacture.


The rotor has 21 poles with 42 Commutator Elements. Rotor diameter - 92mm. Commutator diameter - 40mm. Stator with four magnets /Four Brush System.


The point is that I can't figure out which diagram would be the best for winding the coil on the rotor. I've read all posts and I couldn't find anything for 21 poles.
According to your post on 11-03-2012, 10:50 PM #2465 - The magnificence of three – should I try to make stator with 6 magnets and Three Pairs of Input Brushes for this rotor with 21 poles.
Please help if you have time. If not, It is understandable.

Best Regards
smitev

Hello again Smitev,


I did not forget about your request...

I have been working on this since day one you posted this...but it was not an easy deal, 21 does not brakes the Quadrant perfect in any option...and choosing the right number of poles per coil that will work...was not easy at all.

Anyways, here it is, not much modification on your original config...same Four Stators Four Brushes (understanding it is Four Brushes above , Four below.

It was a lot of CAD Work...but I saw your name there at the bottom of the Thread...waiting patiently...every time I logged In...so here it is my friend.

[IMG][/IMG]


I have grabbed SIX poles per Coil (12 on Pair), and they (Pairs) are "sharing" all, one pole above, one below for every opposed pair, now, notice the Bisector Angles between all rotor coils comparing to Stators Bisectors are NOT EQUAL...Therefore when adjusting Brushes-Timing for more gain-performance (Magenta Arrows showing a Plus Sign in front), PLEASE GO BY THE MINIMAL ANGLE (Minimal Angle is defined by P12 South Bisector and Interacting South Stator Bisector)...Meaning, You can only adjust brushes by traveling according to magenta arrows a bit less than that Angle.

Motor Brushes (Orange) are "Firing" P2-P12
Generator Brushes (Green) are exhausting Energy from P7-P18 (Note they are NOT Aligned exactly at 180º, as also is understood that P8 is outputting its Energy as well...a "Very Asymmetric" configuration, it should output pretty "Up Down" flow fluctuations...

I also figured that if you want to feed through Output Gates (In the same fashion they show Polarity Out, meaning, reverse related to the way Input Polarity is)...you could do it "safely"...increasing Torque and Speed gain...

Any questions, doubts...let me know.


Regards


Ufopolitics


Edit: You have a 42 Element Commutator, therefore, you will be joining/attaching Two Elements, to make it a 21 Element Commutator...You may have figured that out...but I feel like letting you know in advance...

[warrensk]

16 pole modification...

Heres a new video, with the motor tightened up and measuring the output wired in series.

Asymmetric Scooter motor with output voltage - YouTube

[soundiceuk]

Amazing work UFO & guys contributing and building!!!!!!!

UFO do you need a bulletin board / forum / website to organise all the relevant information into easier to find locations?

This is what I have done for two seperate inventors on Earth ION Energy and GravInert

These sites are progressing as and when I find the time to. I could set up yours and hand over the reins to whoever you liked or just make the progress myself but slowly.

It doesn't have to be a forum to start with or at all..... Just a place to organise the information.


I also thought doing something like this guy has would be beneficial for the R&D.

TeslaTronix- Tesla Power For The Masses by TeslaTronix - Kickstarter

There are a growing number of builders who could be involved in something like this.

These are just a few of my ideas that I wanted to share for some brainstorming.

Best regards,

Paul

[machinealive]

Hello,

Well, I went out to do some testing, real excited, you know, and I knocked over my table and cooked my controller, I couldn't believe it. So now I need to reorder some fets. I will try the other two I had, 300v@120amps.

Here is a video I made, before the accident, not much and I wasn't gonna post, but it may be a week or two before I get rebuilt. I don't have much for scope shots, I was planning to do that, sorry.

I guess I will start mounting the mecc alte, and learn arduino, while i wait for fets, I think I'll look for higher rated (voltage) fets, and make several drivers, to bump up the current.

Anyway, hereis a video of 56, being pulsed, and working. @ 36v, hard to get RPM up to 3000.

56 test with new controller, finally working. - YouTube