My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[JohnStone]

Hello Dear John,

[IMG][/IMG]

I got here your drawing that I have added the Bisectors that You MUST consider in order to understand this Tech.
I have displayed the North and South Coils Angles with an arrow limiting their scope, as well as their respective Bisectors.
Also have displayed the North Stator Bisector (Magenta).
Now the closer that you Fire the North Rotor Coil Bisector to the Stator Bisector-At the Start of Commutator Element sweep-The More Torque as throw out range gain (Your Machine would have then more Speed and torque)-... As you would be also approaching South Rotor Bisector to South Stator Bisector...Your timing adjustment will be based MAINLY on Repulsions Interactions here.
Let me know how you see this now...
Regards
Ufopolitics

Tanks again :-)
I will check it by connecting a pair of coils by flexible wire directly and get a feeling at what angle I get the torque. Experiment is the best teacher!

Yesterday I got my vacuum motor running fine: 2A / 12V / 3300rpm when idling. Stall: 4A. It stays moderate warm at touch of the windings. The stator is still wound in the original 220V state.
Still not fine tuned at brushes. But as it runs in both directions with same parameters - it seems to be tuned fairy well. So first measurements can be taken.
Fortunately I own meters in order to measure all electrical parameters (V/A) at motor armature, motor stator and generator side. Stay tuned!
rgds JohnS

[JohnStone]

Hello UFO
I started the motor with a battery of 12,56 Volts, it draws 11Amps and the motor is being warm (not hot) (one 10 Amps digital galvanometer is broken down)After I put a 1,031 Ohm resistor in series now it draws 8,86 Amps but the feed current was not adequate to spin the motor.So it is too much wattage ,nearly 138,16 Watts besides without load. Now I want to try it with a pulsating current of a PWM source.If the result is the same I change the wire account and try it with a smaller wire diameter and more turns.So like you say perhaps it is beter with a 3,5 – 4 Ohm reistance per coil.What do you suggest for the PWM ?what frequecy and what dutycycle?I thank you in advance for your guide
selnet

Hi Selnet,
let's look to some hints in order to cleare up your problem. If you do not know how to proceed you should question all facts you are shure to be not the problem.
1. Check your coil resistance
regarding this chart.

2. Measuring low resistance
Meters usually are not built for measuring in 1 Ohm area - so we need some workaround.

• Use thick leads at your meter
• Check their resistance first by shorting them at the end
• Make thorough contact to your winding (light touch only will deviate your readings)
• Take a reading at your meter
• Substract the resistance measured before (short cicuit of the leads ) from your reading

3. Check all coils
to have similar resistance


4. Position of brushes
Check if your brushes are in the same position (regarding stator magnets) compared to UFO drawings (i.e. I had to rotate the connections 90 degree)

5. Checking polarity
For checking polarity of magnets use a compass or alternatively:

Get a small bar magnet - let it swim on a piece of foam in water - let it align N/S and mark the north side with paint - glue a toothpick onto the magnet - perpendicularly to the magnetic flux. If you hold the toothpick between your fingers the magnet will align regarding your poles.

You will find errors in your setup and additionally your mind will be educated in matters of motors.

• Check the polarity of stator magnets and mark the poles where the painted side of your check magnet points to.
• Energize one coil pair and check the polarity on your armature - mark electrical + side and north poles
• Check all coil pairs for similar action
• Recheck the armature regarding brushes and stator magnets

6. Check the total setup
if it is conforming what you understood from the thread - if not ASK! But please make shure you performed the actions above - before you ask.

I performed these actions and now my vacuum motor runs fine. BTW the windings are about 7m for a coil pair and 2 times 20 turns - 0.45mm magent wire - about 1 Ohm
rgds JohnS

[wantomake]

which motor is preferred

Hello to All,

What is the best four x four motor to use here? The treadmill motor is a success, but is limited with the 2x2 setup.

Can't afford larger motor Ufo is working with right now.

Am ready to learn more and experiment with this forum.

Thanks to All and some great builds going on here !!!

wantomake

[jokosunday]

Hi Dana, Hi all

Hey Dana, you make me laugh, when I read again my post, you are right, I want to say breath not breast, lol. Otherwise take a breast is pretty cool too.

you're right, I will first start with a small motor.

I recovered this morning a big engine (5.5 kW) but the problem is that it is 380 volts plus it is an induction motor.

I'll try to make this weekend speed controller with a potentiometer, if I understand correctly, it is designed to be powered with a 12 VDC power supply?

I watched several of your videos, which you find a big generator.

For your system in 54 volt input feeds you how many volts, and with anything like power?

I'm really a beginner, so I'll start with the electronics already make power.

M after my project would be on a small train engine, performing a variety of motor - generator producing 230 Volts 50 Hz with a power of 4000 watts (I'm still not clear what is!).

I thought therefore achieve a speed controller that can connect to a 230-volt source without burning the 555 or anything else.

Do you think the diagram on page 52 would allow me to start a 12-volt power small motor asymetric and then later more consistent power an asymetric engine ?

Ufo, if I have understood correctly, you said that with this system could later feed larger engines, is it me you advocate rather one with 4 knobs?

I understood today what is an induction motor, the stator is wounded and the rotor havent brush an collector.
PA050081 - HostingPics.net - Hébergement d'images gratuit
PA050082 - HostingPics.net - Hébergement d'images gratuit

I'm very interested by the brushless motor because I have this one (photos)
PA050083 - HostingPics.net - Hébergement d'images gratuit
PA050084 - HostingPics.net - Hébergement d'images gratuit
PA050085 - HostingPics.net - Hébergement d'images gratuit
a 9 poles, it will be difficult to wound the enameled wires, but it is possible.

The problem is the electronique part, if someone, could help me with some reading, it will be cool.

Good will I have a lot of work reading.

Kind regards

[Michelinho]

Rotary transformer is the solution.

Hi all,

We have a Delco / RCA Rotary Transformer like at this site (they might have a few in stock):
Rotary Transformer Dynamotors

My friend found one at a flea market for $5 CDN. It looks to me like it would
be an easy mod to an asymmetric motor test bed.

Take care,

Michel

[Michelinho]

Another model.

Hi all,

another model is up to auction in the UK:


RAF Aircraft Rotary Transformer Radio Radar Type 119 26 volts Ref: 5UB 5908
RAF Aircraft Rotary Transformer Radio Radar Type 119 26 volts Ref: 5UB 5908 | eBay

Just a cover missing on it I think.

Michel

[selnet]

Hello Ufopolitics
Here Im again .I read your posts as a worty guideline .Before I rewound the rotor I made some experiment with it .I found that there are 2 wiring ways ( Perhaps more but I dont know now )At wiring pic1 you see that it draws 11 Amps at pic2 22 Amps.Which will you emphasize for generator and which for motor? Or you suggest other wirings.I ll rewound it complete and wind again with another AWG and turns .If people are interested in I ll give my results later.
Thanks for guiding
selnet

[JJUK]

Rotary Transformer

Hi all,

another model is up to auction in the UK:


RAF Aircraft Rotary Transformer Radio Radar Type 119 26 volts Ref: 5UB 5908
RAF Aircraft Rotary Transformer Radio Radar Type 119 26 volts Ref: 5UB 5908 | eBay

Just a cover missing on it I think.

Michel

Many thanks Michel! Just wish I'd been 45 minutes earlier in reading your post!!!

[prochiro]

Dynamotor

Many thanks Michel! Just wish I'd been 45 minutes earlier in reading your post!!!

Hi JJUK

If I were you I would safe your money. WHY? Dyna-motors are small. They are also a part of history. Dyna-motors have two different commutators on each end. One side say 28 and the other side say 36. This is not good. To do it right, one must either have two of the same dynamotors or find a commutator that is the identical of one side, not easy. They are packed in varnish and if you have seen what UFO has gone through with his current project, that is slow, dirty and frustrating work. When you are done with it, you will have extreme time, and cost for two dynamotors and still have a small unit that will not light your house or even your garage. Do what UFO suggested save time and frustration. You can not make a motor/generator with one as that requires two more commutators and there is no room. Did I miss anything? They are however a vary interesting historical machine to own in there own right.
Dana

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Michelino and Welcome!

Hi all,

We have a Delco / RCA Rotary Transformer like at this site (they might have a few in stock):
Rotary Transformer Dynamotors

My friend found one at a flea market for $5 CDN. It looks to me like it would
be an easy mod to an asymmetric motor test bed.

Take care,

Michel

Hello Michelino,

Welcome!

Now the Dynamotor "could be" a good model to modify, BUT, as long as you could find a similar commutator to one of the end heads.
They normally, are different from each others...One has less segments...while the other have more...

That would be your main problem there...as also same sized brushes.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Michelinho]

Hi prochiro and Ufopolitics,

The different amount of segments is not a problem is you gang them (28/7 and 36/9). The Delco unit has 2 sets of brushes at each end if I recall well and is about 12" across and around 8" in height. My friend who has the unit is building a house with his lab in the basement and all the crazy stuff he has is in storage.

I have been following the thread since day one and I find what you have all been doing as GREAT. As soon as I am done with my other projects I'll start modding motors.

Keep up the good work,

Michel

P.S.: Michelinho means little Michel in Brazilian Portuguese.

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Selnet,

Hello Ufopolitics
Here Im again .I read your posts as a worty guideline .Before I rewound the rotor I made some experiment with it .I found that there are 2 wiring ways ( Perhaps more but I dont know now )At wiring pic1 you see that it draws 11 Amps at pic2 22 Amps.Which will you emphasize for generator and which for motor? Or you suggest other wirings.I ll rewound it complete and wind again with another AWG and turns .If people are interested in I ll give my results later.
Thanks for guiding
selnet

Hello Selnet,

I found that there are 2 wiring ways ( Perhaps more but I dont know now )

So You "found"...two or more ways to wire-connect My Machines!!??

Selnet, I have displayed already, ALL the possible ways, to hook this Machines...I really "doubt"...there could be another way.

In the First Picture You have changed the connections...the one that draws 10 amps...All you have done is Converted Back to a SYMMETRICAL Machine...You are REVERSING Polarity at every turn, since you have Positive-Negative Input, at same Commutator level...The only difference, is that here, Pairs-Coils are NOT connected in series between them, like a "Typical Symmetry",...but independent from each others...You have No output here...it is just a Motor.
You are killing Radiant Output...and creating back EMF again.

In the Second Pic, 22 Amps...You managed to create a Dual Symmetrical Machine...You are reversing polarity galore there...at upper and lower commutator levels.

Selnet, by doing this type of connections...I honestly tell you...You still do NOT fully understand this Technology.

So, my friend, please, do not try to come here and show me, teach me...there "could be even more ways" to hook this machines...as your conclusions could really bring confusion among other Members starting to read here...I will appreciate if you learn this technology fully first...going by all the several, and very clean diagrams I have displayed so far...before trying to "Improve here"...please and thanks.



Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Dear John Stone

Tanks again :-)
I will check it by connecting a pair of coils by flexible wire directly and get a feeling at what angle I get the torque. Experiment is the best teacher!

Yesterday I got my vacuum motor running fine: 2A / 12V / 3300rpm when idling. Stall: 4A. It stays moderate warm at touch of the windings. The stator is still wound in the original 220V state.

Hello Dear John,

Amazing results John!!...grrreat!!!...

Now, may I ask you...are you pulsing or linear feeding the AC Stators?

Is great to know you have finally got it running at that speed!

Still not fine tuned at brushes. But as it runs in both directions with same parameters - it seems to be tuned fairy well. So first measurements can be taken.
Fortunately I own meters in order to measure all electrical parameters (V/A) at motor armature, motor stator and generator side. Stay tuned!
rgds JohnS

I know you DO John, as well as I know you are awesome at Electronic circuitry Design and Measurements...

Now the way I display My Machines Diagrams...is at a Neutral Positioning related to Pairs/Stators Interactions, meaning that according to that Timing Rotor will turn perfectly CW or CCW...BUT, once you guys have decided the rotation sense you are pursuing according to application...then, you could do a "Dedicated Tuning" to that rotation sense...while increasing Torque and speed.


Warm regards Dear John and


Ufopolitics

[JJUK]

Dynamotor

Hi JJUK

If I were you I would safe your money. WHY? Dyna-motors are small. They are also a part of history. Dyna-motors have two different commutators on each end. One side say 28 and the other side say 36. This is not good. To do it right, one must either have two of the same dynamotors or find a commutator that is the identical of one side, not easy. They are packed in varnish and if you have seen what UFO has gone through with his current project, that is slow, dirty and frustrating work. When you are done with it, you will have extreme time, and cost for two dynamotors and still have a small unit that will not light your house or even your garage. Do what UFO suggested save time and frustration. You can not make a motor/generator with one as that requires two more commutators and there is no room. Did I miss anything? They are however a vary interesting historical machine to own in there own right.
Dana

Thanks for the advice and clarification Dana. I had not looked at the Dynamotors carefully enough to realise that the commutators are not identical.

[prochiro]

Delco?

Thanks for the advice and clarification Dana. I had not looked at the Dyna motors carefully enough to realize that the commutators are not identical.

JJUK Hi
Most of what I said was directed to the typical dynamotor and not to say it could not be done with those but there are obstacles. However after looking at the Delco, that one has four commutators and and would be a neat little setup if done properly. Those high speed rotors are a mess to undo and skill and patients would be needed. It depends on your skill level. That one takes 9 amps to start and seems to be built for heavy action.
Dana