My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[ampsvolts]

Summary

So much has been said - so many posts

Maybe a pause to consolidate the knowledge from UFO Guru

Anyone care to add to (or correct) the following important points taken from the many UFO posts?

• One coil pair is recommend to be equal to or just above One Ohm.
• One coil pair is wound as if it was one single coil, opened at the half way point ∞ and applied to each pole set.
• Larger capacity coils produce higher output (torque?) than many more smaller capacity coils.
• A three pole configuration is the simplest, yet the strongest.
• Bifilar rotor coils require bifilar stator coils.
• An asymmetrical prime mover will need to be either a Big Three Pole...a Star of David...or 20 or more poles and Four Element at stator-brushes.
• An aymmetrical generator requires to be elongated... the longer the armature the better...and the more slots (poles) with lots of room...the better...then the more wire-coils you could get...the more power you will get out...
• PWM circuit that powers an asymmetrical wound stator and armature motor is preferred to a linear fed asymmetrical magnet stator motor.
• It is best to balance each wound coil set by wire length as opposed to number of winds.
• Prime Mover face to face connection to generator is the most efficient connection method

Maybe details of balancing prime mover and generator?
Maybe details on addition of capacitors?
etc....

Kind Regards
AV

[thaelin]

One trashed motor later

Well you learn from mistakes, and I did. One really trashed mess left and went home. Things came loose and that was around 3k that spelled disaster for the magnets. One totally pulverized and the rest pieces gone. When things came to rest, then the wires went to smoken too.
Looking now for more to play. So Turion, make really sure you anchor those rotors and stators good. Hate to see you suffer this with your elongated rotor for sure.

Thay

[machinealive]

Hi ampsvolt,

In terms of bifilar coils, I don't think it matters whether you use bifilars or single. More wire allows a stonger magnetic field, which is what matters. With a bifilar you would have almost 4 x as much wire mass with same low ohms. Instead of one 10 ft coil at one ohm, now you could use 2, 20 ft coils with the same 1ohm, but now the mag field is much stronger. But you could use singles, and quadfilars if you want.

I hope that's correct, because I just wound a bifilar stator coil, with single wire rotor coils.

[Ufopolitics]

Hello AmpsVolts, Good morning to All

So much has been said - so many posts

Maybe a pause to consolidate the knowledge from UFO Guru

Anyone care to add to (or correct) the following important points taken from the many UFO posts?

• One coil pair is recommend to be equal to or just above One Ohm.
• One coil pair is wound as if it was one single coil, opened at the half way point ∞ and applied to each pole set.
• Larger capacity coils produce higher output (torque?) than many more smaller capacity coils.
• A three pole configuration is the simplest, yet the strongest.
• Bifilar rotor coils require bifilar stator coils.
• An asymmetrical prime mover will need to be either a Big Three Pole...a Star of David...or 20 or more poles and Four Element at stator-brushes.
• An asymmetrical generator requires to be elongated... the longer the armature the better...and the more slots (poles) with lots of room...the better...then the more wire-coils you could get...the more power you will get out...
• PWM circuit that powers an asymmetrical wound stator and armature motor is preferred to a linear fed asymmetrical magnet stator motor.
• It is best to balance each wound coil set by wire length as opposed to number of winds.
• Prime Mover face to face connection to generator is the most efficient connection method

Maybe details of balancing prime mover and generator?
Maybe details on addition of capacitors?
etc....

Kind Regards
AV

Hello AmpsVolts, Good morning to All,


It is great you have made some great points there, Thanks!...now let me clear some of them...

• One coil pair is wound as if it was one single coil, opened at the half way point ∞ and applied to each pole set.

That is correct, however it brings confusion when we are winding at critical angles (too sharp/closed angles like a VERY close "V") or when Coils in the Pair are right next to each others, example:Turion 16 Poles and the BOSCH Diagram of 20 Poles.

• Larger capacity coils produce higher output (torque?) than many more smaller capacity coils.

I was referring Mainly to ELECTRICAL OUTPUT . As when We apply that concept to Dedicated Generators.
Greater Torque is given by the Throw Out - Sweep Angles , between Rotor Coils and Stators, as also Speed is given by "Playing" with this Angle, and this Angle relates to the number of Poles We comprehend in our Coils.

ALL Other points not cited here are correct.

Maybe details of balancing prime mover and generator?

The correct way to balance Prime Mover to Generator are based on:

• Generator Armature Physical Weight. Now, here is understood the weight refers to a complete wound and commutators assembled ready to be Installed Armature.
  
• Having that Weight, We must calculate the Torque, AND the CRITICAL Parameter here to Obtain is The Power our Prime Mover will achieve. Power is given by
  Ft-Pounds/Sec , therefore, in our Dyno Test, We must Apply that Generator Armature Weight when making the Balancing Calculation and IF We have our Prime Mover Machine running "comfortable*"while standing that weight from 3000 to 4000 RPM's, (trying to be within the "High Side" or over 3600 RPM's) Then our Prime mover WILL rotate that Generator perfectly fine.

*Comfortable Means our Prime Mover is running at a Normal Temperature (Not Excessively Hot) As We are also measuring its Parameters as not be drawing too much Volts/Amps...as We have also checked our Machine Output in Amps Volts WITH and WITHOUT a LOAD.

Now, 3600 RPM's is a basic standard to achieve the 60 Hertz Frequency at the Generator side, as around 3000 will achieve the 50 Hz for European and South America Frequencies. However, We will be adding an Oscillator/Controller to our Prime Mover Machines (We Must!) in order to adjust-set the perfect timing-frequency-steady output as "Final Touches" when we have them running robust and stabilized. And BEFORE adding any Complex and Sensitive Electrical Loads We must check output with our Lab Meters-Loads that could not be damaged like an expensive appliance.

Now, when adjusting timing-speed-output We must realize the Pure Output we have to calculate AFTER we have Looped the circuit to Our BMS (Battery Management System) which is charging the Batteries and keeping them Balanced at a Steady Operating Charge...like a Voltage Regulator/Alternator does in a Vehicle...




Regards


Ufopolitics

[JohnStone]

Ok, so you mean the pair will have 20 turns total...right?

Now it all depends on the Voltage you will be applying to this Motor...cause I believe you may have somewhere in between 0.5 to 0.8 Ohms...IF 0.8 you are great...if below 0.5...even with 12V it will get hot over time...but will get a heck of speed and torque for sure!!
....

Hi Ufo,
thanks for your hints.
I tried today several times to wind more than 10 runs hrd stacked with AWG21 (0.7mm) - impossible. I get 3m wound on one coil pair = 0.05 Ohm. Other wire available in my shop is AWG32 (0.2mm) - that's too thin.

Now I did some calculations and it turned out thet AWG 26 wil give about two times 25 turns (8m) for one coil and 0.9 Ohm. I need to purchase this wire so it will take some additional days :-(

BTW: You talked of aligning same wire length and NOT turns.

So all guys shall note:

• The very first coil pair wound will have a certain count of turns for the given length.
• The following coils being applied as first wind onto the armature gaps - will have some turns less because they overlap the bunch of wires from other coils!
• Later on some windings will live on top of another coils -wound before - as second layer. Those will additionally have some turns less like above -for teh given wire length.

So please note that if you align for same count of turns your coils will have possibly more than 10% of difference between wire length. And that might affect the effects reported by UFO!
rgds John

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Dear John...

Hi Ufo,
thanks for your hints.
I tried today several times to wind more than 10 runs hrd stacked with AWG21 (0.7mm) - impossible. I get 3m wound on one coil pair = 0.05 Ohm. Other wire available in my shop is AWG32 (0.2mm) - that's too thin.

Now I did some calculations and it turned out thet AWG 26 wil give about two times 25 turns (8m) for one coil and 0.9 Ohm. I need to purchase this wire so it will take some additional days :-(

BTW: You talked of aligning same wire length and NOT turns.

So all guys shall note:

• The very first coil pair wound will have a certain count of turns for the given length.
• The following coils being applied as first wind onto the armature gaps - will have some turns less because they overlap the bunch of wires from other coils!
• Later on some windings will live on top of another coils -wound before - as second layer. Those will additionally have some turns less like above -for teh given wire length.

So please note that if you align for same count of turns your coils will have possibly more than 10% of difference between wire length. And that might affect the effects reported by UFO!
rgds John

Hello Dear John,

Ah, I am sorry about the wire size issue...

However you will get much better results now with the 26 awg wire...

Now John...

It is a perfect way to wind Motors and Generators based on wire length, I mean it is the way the "Book" says...However I was referring to Use this Method, basically, on the Dual Pentagons Model...just because there is such difference in wrapping one pole versus wrapping two poles...too asymmetrical volumes there.
However, in symmetrical volumes to be winded, while I perfectly understand what you are talking about of one wire on top of others will end up being different lengths...that 10 % is really not that much of a big difference when Machine is turning at Higher Speeds...They "tend" to balance and stabilize at High RPM's.

But again, I agree that doing it by Length is the RIGHT WAY to do it...it just becomes kind of time consuming as also expensive to have different spools of wire...as also measuring a whole linear length of wire...and for some small motors here is really not worthy it.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[ampsvolts]

Bifilar Rotor / Stator

Hi ampsvolt,

In terms of bifilar coils, I don't think it matters whether you use bifilars or single. More wire allows a stonger magnetic field, which is what matters. With a bifilar you would have almost 4 x as much wire mass with same low ohms. Instead of one 10 ft coil at one ohm, now you could use 2, 20 ft coils with the same 1ohm, but now the mag field is much stronger. But you could use singles, and quadfilars if you want.

I hope that's correct, because I just wound a bifilar stator coil, with single wire rotor coils.

Hi Machinealive,
Great work you are doing... I hope you do not have to rewind..
My Information came from UFO post 1225 - Page 41.
Maybe UFO will clarify that this may or may not apply to your work (hope not)


Hi UFO Guru.
Thanks for the detailed explanation - many things to now consider. -

Machinealive is a good example of the need of this type of guide as there are so many variables to consider... and a lot of work can be implicated.
I hope we can build on the list to save misconceptions.

Cheers to all
AV

[vintasalo]

What about a Power BOX, Self Sustaining

Maybe a little off subject.. But gonna post anyways.

what if you had 4-6 of these motors in a box that had a large battery pack, converter from 12 to 110, and all the necessary resistors/transistors etc..

Sorry, really learning electronics still.

Basically the battery pack would spin the motors to produce the electricity, the amount of electricity to propel the motors would be filtered directly back to the battery pack, the extra amps would be put towards the 12-110 converter and the box would have common wall outlet plugs on top.

Power your devices with purple energy from a box that is self sustainable.

If batteries were dead you could kick start with kinetic energy by a wheel on the side of it manually spun till the right voltage is reached to start the motors.

What you guys think, I could get this funded

[Ufopolitics]

That would be fine

Hi ampsvolt,

In terms of bifilar coils, I don't think it matters whether you use bifilars or single. More wire allows a stonger magnetic field, which is what matters. With a bifilar you would have almost 4 x as much wire mass with same low ohms. Instead of one 10 ft coil at one ohm, now you could use 2, 20 ft coils with the same 1ohm, but now the mag field is much stronger. But you could use singles, and quadfilars if you want.

I hope that's correct, because I just wound a bifilar stator coil, with single wire rotor coils.

Hello Machine,

Yes that is perfectly fine.

The Bifilar concept applies to enhancement of the magnetic field...Not necessarily We need to have Bifilar on BOTH SIDES...and you want to pulse your stator...right?...and you want to get the reversed flow through diodes...and use it..so it a great Stator being Bifilar to do all that...
Adding Bifilar in Modified Rotors will get Us less space...which is not good...we will be very short of room and may have problems at time to secure windings tight.

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Maybe a little off subject.. But gonna post anyways.

what if you had 4-6 of these motors in a box that had a large battery pack, converter from 12 to 110, and all the necessary resistors/transistors etc..

Sorry, really learning electronics still.

Basically the battery pack would spin the motors to produce the electricity, the amount of electricity to propel the motors would be filtered directly back to the battery pack, the extra amps would be put towards the 12-110 converter and the box would have common wall outlet plugs on top.

Power your devices with purple energy from a box that is self sustainable.

If batteries were dead you could kick start with kinetic energy by a wheel on the side of it manually spun till the right voltage is reached to start the motors.

What you guys think, I could get this funded

Hello and welcome Vintasalo,

I think you should keep studying and reading more here...

There is no need to complicate yourself like that...
As it will bring confusion here...

Hope you understand


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Ok Guys..Let's get to work...

Hello to all,

I just purchased a brand new Brushless Mecc Alte Generator Head.

It is a 6 KVA or 6000 Watts/Two Pole...New type Brush-less Design (No need for dual armature set of coils ,Exciter plus Rotary Stator, but just a Rotating Stator) This makes it much lighter armature weight than the older versions of Brush-less...
It was originally built in 2011 in their Headquarters at Creazzo Vicenza, Italy...since they have many Franchises all over Europe and India...I was lucky to find one made by the Masters.

I am going to leave it "As Is"...of course it is just a Generator Head, so I will be adding its AC Plugs, and circuit breakers at output.

It needs to be driven at 3600 RPM's to output its Full power and the 60 Hertz required by AC Components, which is:

120V/50 Amps 240V/25 Amps


I am going to run it with:

Original: Imperial Motor 56 Frame

Modified: An Asymmetric 28 Poles Four Stators/Four Brush System, that originally was 5 HP Motor...I have to make it output 13 plus HP, No sweat at 24 Volts 33 Amps.


I will render a Diagram of this 28 Poles later on this coming week, However, it is based on the P-# of Poles Diagrams I have rendered before here. As also some pictures of the Machines.

I am working in the mechanical coupling of both Machines. Since Generator Head comes without front bearings and have a Female Coupling Shaft where we are supposed to connect the stinking/farting Gas Engine Shaft...and sorry...but...NOT THIS TIME!

So get ready to see it at work soon

The Game and the Myth of Energy is over Ladies and Gentlemen.



Regards to all


Ufopolitics

[Gints]

Hi Ufopolitics,

This is great news from you. I am very intrigued to see your large machine working.

By the way....During all this time I am working on plastic (POM) rotor/stator (except shaft) type of your machine. I assume it will be 1 to 2 kW. I will publish information soon.

Best regards.

[Ufopolitics]

That is great Gints!!

Hi Ufopolitics,

This is great news from you. I am very intrigued to see your large machine working.

By the way....During all this time I am working on plastic (POM) rotor/stator (except shaft) type of your machine. I assume it will be 1 to 2 kW. I will publish information soon.

Best regards.

Hello Dear Gints!!

Well that is great to know!...looking forward to see that beauty at work!!


Regards


Ufopolitics

[john_g]

Will the S16W - 105A also work?

Hi @ UFO

Would the S16W-105A work with your new build or will it have to be the 130A?


http://www.hutchinsonpower.co.uk/spe.../S16W-105A.pdf

Regards

John

[interdesign21]

tips

Hello UFO
Wow ! this is a step beyond that many of us are hoping towards truly quitting oil slavery, huge congrats !!!

in a much lower level:
@Nico
Hola Nico
You posted here about those printer motors.
here attached some construction tips I use while making my machines.
Hope it will be of any help, or inspires you (or any else) in your building.
regards
un abrazo
Alvaro