My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

Finer versus Coarse wire...

Hi Ufo,

With regard to the winding of the rotor I was wondering if there is any benefit in winding a high amount of maybe 10 to 25 multifiler for coil of finer wire creating a greater surface area, and still aiming for around 1 - 2 ohm, or would it be best to try and fit a single wire of greatest diameter aiming for around 1 - 2 ohms.

Thanks
netica

Hello Netica,

You have been lost!...(some people were thinking you were running to the Patent Office..?!...)

Remember We need for you to please find out the range of frequencies-duty cycle where the Amps effect (No Increase on Mechanical Load) occurred ...

Related to your question now...

Finer wire allows less Amps (lower electron flow Population)...However, you could get a heavier volume of it, when using multi-filar strands, it will increase its Capacitance and magnetic field...and yes it will work like that also...The problem on this Machines is that we have Two Currents traveling within same wire...Radiant (Cold) and Hot...Now Radiant travels great in finer wire...Hot does not...Radiant could get to become very sparky if we allow it to develop further than Hot...So it is always good to keep a "balance"...

Finer wire works best as Secondaries within Rotor and/or Stator Coils...basically on Non Ferrous Cores...then those fine wires will only contain Radiant Flow within without interfering with Machine Operation of Primaries.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Batteries Voltage Increase...

Wow! That's a good thought. I had reflective tape on the pulley, but I didn't paint the wheel black. Will remember to do that next time. I really struggled with getting good readings for you guys as my next video will testify to. I dang near gave up, and I ended up putting the camera down a couple times to deal with stuff, but hang in there. All the data is there if you wait until the end...except the ending voltages. I shut the camera off, but then snapped a picture. They were 12.64 and 12.59. By the way, on the video it sounds like I don't know a volt from an amp. Unless I've been drinking, I really DO.

I have to tell you, the RPM's on this modified motor are so far out of this world it vibrates everything off my bench. My batteries were jumping around so bad it was pulling the clips off and I had to use "L" brackets to secure stuff in place so I could keep it all wired together long enough to do the testing. It makes a difference when you have all the wires on the armature connected like they are supposed to be.

If you build a big one of these and fire it up,you best hang onto your underwear!!

UfO modified motor torque test - YouTube

Since I still have this on the bench, I will hit that wheel with some black paint and pull 6 amps on the pulley setup and video the rpm's again. It will take me some time to get the stock motor back on the bench, but I will do that one too. But just measure rpm's at torqued to 6 amps...not all the other measurements. Ok, modified motor 2750 under load...3905 running free. Standard motor 3610 running free 2967 under load.

I gotta run get cleaned up, but I will charge the batteries and redo the test first thing Monday, now that I know how to make it not jump all over the place when I try to torque down on it.

Hello Dave,

I forgot to mention about the reading you are getting when you started Modified at your DMM's...and that you could not understand...

Batteries Increase voltage as you start Machine, since there is no constant flow through its output gates...meaning "No Electrical Load at Output"...therefore, charges keep "bouncing" inside and getting back at your Input...your Meters detect this increase of electrical flow.
This reading will decrease once you connect a load...but for this Torque tests there in no need to do it... ..As it should also decrease when you add the mechanical load.

Regards


Ufopolitics

[pmazz850]

@Ufo,
Would an MUR410 be a suitable diode to use in place of nte576?

[Ufopolitics]

I believe so...

@Ufo,
Would an MUR410 be a suitable diode to use in place of nte576?

Hello Pmazz,

I was trying to see the Data Sheet...did you compare them?
It is Ultrafast and High amperage at pulsed...
It shows Recovery times of 25 ,50 and 75 ns...but there are other model numbers also
If it is 25 ns is faster than NTE 576, which is 35ns...
On Voltage and Amps ratings it is "super" comfortable...

So yes I think it will work perfect.

Hey, when are we going to see your Machines running Man??!!...

Regards


Ufopolitics

[DadHav]

Hello Dad Hav,

No, I was not kidding...Posts are on Page 47...first MasterBlaster then Bob French (post #1394) here:

DT2234C+ DIGITAL TACHOMETER - www.sinosells.com



MasterBlaster posted first on an European (UK) version...(post#1389) here

Both are the same thing.


And yes I know they are not that accurate as they could be triggered by many reflections, false lighting etc...(talking in general)
But I am developing a very cheap method to obtain the best and more accurate RPM readings...BUT...ONLY on my Machines... ..I have to test it still... but it is about an electrical contact set within Machine, without altering anything...and No Physical Contact required...except couple of probes...to the digital Tach...

And there are two types of Tachometers that does not require physical contact:

1) The IR (Infra Red) that requires a reflective tape is the older version, I have one, and it was very expensive...I got it a while back...
2) The LASER Tachometer does not requires tape...aim right at shaft...just like a Temperature sensor...Many Members here have them...one of them is Vincevl...He shows it at work on His video here...

Asymmetric Electrodynamic DC Motor - YouTube

Note Vince is just aiming at the very small shaft...no tape there...watch from 4:30 to 7:55 of video...

See Dad Hav...you were making wrong conclusions again... ...I was NOT trying to get you outta here searching for all this sites...so I get you out of my hair...I got them all for you...


Regards


Ufopolitics

UFO, So then are you saying you helped me with the links because you like my company and would rather have me hanging around here? OK to get serious. The link to the tachometer on E-bay that you have here says the tachometer comes with reflective tape. I wonder if Master or Bob are actually using this model without tape? The one in the video from Vince is a different kind from the looks of it. Vince could I ask you to give us more information about the tach you are using? And Bob, I hate to bother you but are you using this model without reflective tape? I'd appreciate it very much. Nice video by the way Vince.
John Hav
PS. I've searched for some time now (sorry UFO I appreciate your help) and can't find an advertisement anywhere with a non contact digital tachometer that doesn't need reflective tape. I found one small obscure add that said in a few rare cases the instrument would measure without tape but it wasn't advised. I hope no one will take this the wrong way but has anyone tried their no tape tachometer with reflective tape to see if there was a difference in readings? The test would have to be a non reflective surface with the reflective strip on it.
PS again. OK UFO, I did find this and it might be what you are talking about as the expensive alternative to a no reflector tachometer:
Speed Sensor measures turning speeds from a distance., Computational Systems, Inc.
This is news to me. I would never have said it was possible without some sort of register.
J

[Gints]

Ufopolitics Motor Torgue test

Hi Ufopolitics & All,

Here will be my attempt to test torgue of your asymmetric motor. This video was filmed before your comments about caps I used.

Ufopolitics Asymmetric Motor Torgue Test - YouTube

The next will be some re-arrangements and tests what about you wrote before.

Best regards.

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

John H,

Yes, I use it w/o reflective tape, but it helps to have a dark background and a white dot or stripe for the infrared light to hit. I found that shining it so that the light does not reflect straight back also helps. My friend has a larger model that he has to hold back a ways (?). Mine works well. It may or may not be super accurate (I have no way to tell), but it does give relative data.
Hope this helps.

Bob

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

G18945 Motor from Electronic Goldmine

UFO et al,

I got 3 motors (G18945) from Electronic Goldmine for $3.49 each, used 2 to make a Dual Pentagon motor using 33ft. of 30AWG (3.8 ohms) on each coil set. It was great to work on, much stronger and bigger than the RS motor. It runs well, but 300rpm slower than the original, for 60mA more, and gets hot. After talking to Dana I have decided to re-wind it bifilar of 30AWG half the length but doubled up, so I will have the same amount of wire, but half the ohms (about 1.9 ohms). Also with 12.5v input, it's output is 11.4v.

Any other suggestions would be welcomed.

It's good to be building on this again!

Bob

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Everyone,

I forgot to mention that I put the extra motor on the output and ran it very easily, but the amp draw reflected that. (I was hoping to have it run for free!) Once I get the new motor working well I'll do it again and see what it does.

Bob

[Rl2003]

Tach

Dav and All,

I bought and received this item and it does say Digital Photo Tachometer.
It also comes with reflective tape, and does produce a red laser type beam emitting
from the meter. I will let you know if was worth the 16 bucks..

Mark

Quality Digital Laser Photo Tachometer Non Contact RPM Tach for Motor Industrial | eBay

UFO, So then are you saying you helped me with the links because you like my company and would rather have me hanging around here? OK to get serious. The link to the tachometer on E-bay that you have here says the tachometer comes with reflective tape. I wonder if Master or Bob are actually using this model without tape? The one in the video from Vince is a different kind from the looks of it. Vince could I ask you to give us more information about the tach you are using? And Bob, I hate to bother you but are you using this model without reflective tape? I'd appreciate it very much. Nice video by the way Vince.
John Hav
PS. I've searched for some time now (sorry UFO I appreciate your help) and can't find an advertisement anywhere with a non contact digital tachometer that doesn't need reflective tape. I found one small obscure add that said in a few rare cases the instrument would measure without tape but it wasn't advised. I hope no one will take this the wrong way but has anyone tried their no tape tachometer with reflective tape to see if there was a difference in readings? The test would have to be a non reflective surface with the reflective strip on it.
PS again. OK UFO, I did find this and it might be what you are talking about as the expensive alternative to a no reflector tachometer:
Speed Sensor measures turning speeds from a distance., Computational Systems, Inc.
This is news to me. I would never have said it was possible without some sort of register.
J

[DadHav]

Dav and All,

I bought and received this item and it does say Digital Photo Tachometer.
It also comes with reflective tape, and does produce a red laser type beam emitting
from the meter. I will let you know if was worth the 16 bucks..

Mark

Quality Digital Laser Photo Tachometer Non Contact RPM Tach for Motor Industrial | eBay

Hello Mark, I'm sure you'll be happy with the way the tachometer works as long as you are using the reflective tape on a non reflective background. Don't forget to be aware of overhead lighting especially fluorescent. If you're having trouble dim the light and see if it helps. If you try a reading from the shaft without tape and it seems to be working the same as with tape let us know.
Good luck
John Hav.

[DadHav]

John H,

Yes, I use it w/o reflective tape, but it helps to have a dark background and a white dot or stripe for the infrared light to hit. I found that shining it so that the light does not reflect straight back also helps. My friend has a larger model that he has to hold back a ways (?). Mine works well. It may or may not be super accurate (I have no way to tell), but it does give relative data.
Hope this helps.

Bob

Thanks Bob, we haven't talked in a long time. I hope you're getting a handle on your power requirements. It does help to know you are using an index of some kind for your reading. I got knocked out of my socks when I saw someone take a reading from a tiny shiny little shaft with not reflective tape or index consideration. I must have the toy that can do that.
Take care.
John

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Bob

UFO et al,

I got 3 motors (G18945) from Electronic Goldmine for $3.49 each, used 2 to make a Dual Pentagon motor using 33ft. of 30AWG (3.8 ohms) on each coil set. It was great to work on, much stronger and bigger than the RS motor. It runs well, but 300rpm slower than the original, for 60mA more, and gets hot. After talking to Dana I have decided to re-wind it bifilar of 30AWG half the length but doubled up, so I will have the same amount of wire, but half the ohms (about 1.9 ohms). Also with 12.5v input, it's output is 11.4v.

Any other suggestions would be welcomed.

It's good to be building on this again!

Bob

Hello Bob,

Yes those are the 550 Embodiment while the RS was the 250...

Now, your new Dual Pentagon should NOT get Hot...there must be something wrong there causing this to happen...
And Bob, I want you to take a reading there before you take it apart (I hope it is not too late by now..)
Set Your Positive Meter probe on the Battery Positive (Input) and your Negative Probe on the Negative of Output (the one right next to (+) Input above)...without adding the lower jumper between Positive Output-Negative Input...and see what it reads...

Then I want you to pulse it with your Oscillator...then do same readings on output...As you could set the diodes at output and connect the diode while pulsing it very low...like I showed on the diagram...and let Us know.


Thanks


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Zardox]

Just finished winding the radio shack motor with the dual pentagon and did a preliminary run and it seems to run great. I put some nail polish enamel on the windings and am waiting for that to dry before I weld the case back together and do more testing.
I also wanted to say that I used the original wire that I originally removed from the armature. I measured each one (they were all a little different) and cut them off at 9'. I then marked the 4-1/2' with tape before winding the first South coils.
Let you know when I get to testing.

[Ufopolitics]

Machine Torque-Power-Efficiency Calculations

Hello To All,

I made this Diagram-Chart in order to make it easier for You All to understand the Way this Calculations Must be made:

We BASICALLY need FOUR PARAMETERS TO BE READ ALL at the SAME EXACT MOMENTUM (time)

And they are:

1) Input Voltage (V In)
2) Input Amperage (A In)
3) Total Force (Scales Values)
4) RPM's



[IMG][/IMG]

Once We get them ALL TAKEN at SAME TIME, We can turn everything Off and start calculating...

INPUT CALCULATIONS

1) First We calculate Our Input Power Applied at that precise Momentum, given in Watts: (V In) X (A In)= Watts In
2) Then We have to Convert Watts In, to Horse Power In (HP In), knowing that One (1) HP is equal to 746 Watts Power then Watts In/746 W= HP Input


OUTPUT CALCULATIONS

Output Calculations are divided in different sections in order to obtain the different required results. Now, here difficulties could come at time when we have to convert them from One given value to another, but it is really simple if we have a Known Unity (of Our Value) equal to The Value to be Converted
Then We could use the simple "Rule of Three Known Values" ...



1) OUTPUT SPEED/DISPLACEMENT or Revolutions of known length per "given time" where HERE they MUST be given in Feet per Second (Ft/Sec), to do this We start by our given Parameters...RPM's and Circumference Length.

1a) SPEED Conversion from RPM's to RPS [Revolutions Per every One Second], simple, rule of 3, One Minute=Sixty (60) Seconds, so...RPM's value divided by 60=RPS

1b) DISPLACEMENT Now, in the event that our wheel is not EXACTLY EQUAL TO ONE (1) FEET...

First We MUST convert our given "C" (Circumference) or "L" ("Length" is called in other regions outside English-American Engineering Zones) Value (If other than Feet) to Feet...

Now, Peter Lindemann on His Video Secrets of Electric Motors recommends for wheel to be of exactly One Feet or "of known value" ...One Feet value is in order to make calculations easier to understand...since we still have to multiply RPS(Speed) By Feet (Displacement) in order to obtain required Combined Parameter FOOT-POUNDS/SECONDS or simplified: Ft-Lbs/Sec...However, Multiplying by One (1) Feet...there is absolutely "No Change" in original values of RPS, however, now they are at: Ft-Lbs/Sec...

But, if We have a wheel of say...8.5 Inches (like Turion/Dave), and One(1) Feet=12 Inches...then "X" = 0.708 Feet (from 8.5 divided 12) then at time of Multiplying by the RPS...It WILL DO change completely.

I will run an example of all this Calculations based on Gints Tests later on...


OUTPUT FORCE/TORQUE/POWER

1) FORCE Is measured on this Test, through our Two Scales readings...Why Two Scales?...One Scale Reads the Positive to Rotation Force (Vector of Force F2A on Diagram-Chart) .While the other Scale measures the deviation of Angle of Acceleration Forces (Left Red Curve) and represented by Vector of Force F2B...Now if this Vector direction becomes perfectly parallel to F2A, then reading results in Zero at Front Scale, this Angle of deviation could change if we slightly move our belt or while holding scales move their positioning, as also by creating a Drag on Wheel that deviates the belt angle...

To obtain a true Total Force read-out, We Must ADD both Scales Measurements, of course, IF both are showing Positive Values.

However, We must make sure we have RESET BOTH SCALES TO ZERO, before start Testing.

2) TORQUE is given by Pounds-Foot, (meaning FORCE by DISPLACEMENT) therefore, our Torque would be our measurement of Pounds of Force times the Displacement in feet .

3) POWERis the Parameter given by Foot-Pounds/Second (Meaning TORQUE measured at a given Speed) .
Now, One (1) Horse Power is equal to 550 Ft-Pounds/Sec, therefore Our Motor Power divided 550 Ft-Pounds/Sec= Our Motor HP Output


CALCULATING EFFICIENCY

Efficiency is given by Our Motor HP Output divided by Our HP Input and multiplied by 100, given in Percentage (%)


************************************************** *************************

Further I will run the Calculations based on Gints latest Video Tests, in order that all this conversions and calculations will be based on A Real Test...


Regards


Ufopolitics