My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[MasterBlaster]

I now understand the motor timing and commutating and the 3 pole is bad ....

Norman, did you physically build a 3 pole motor or you just are guessing?

[prochiro]

Norman re: 3 pole

Norman
What masterblaster is referring to is that if you built a three pole setup you would not say or think that it is weak in any way and in fact those little dudes have way more power than they were built for. UFO has stated many times that the three pole is a sturdy creature. Try one, you will like it. It is also the easiest to wind.
Dana

[pmazz850]

Norman,
I can testify to the fact that the 3 pole does indeed work! And quite well!

[norman6538]

3 pole design

Norman
What masterblaster is referring to is that if you built a three pole setup you would not say or think that it is weak in any way and in fact those little dudes have way more power than they were built for. UFO has stated many times that the three pole is a sturdy creature. Try one, you will like it. It is also the easiest to wind.
Dana

I did not make one partly because I did not understand the commutation to wire it and put
it together properly and the 18v motor has such small wires to work with so I decided to do the
very simple Lidmotor as a starter..

Norman

[Sanskara316]

Hi Norman

UFO said 3 pole is better than a Five pole, I have already destroyed the copper brushes for excessive use. Thats the easiest configuration to do and test, I have replicated 3 volt motors and 12 volt motors both of them are 3 poles and working excellent.

[norman6538]

3 pole design

Norman,
I can testify to the fact that the 3 pole does indeed work! And quite well!

The rewiring uses half the wire in a given slot for a motor and the other half for a generator
which means it will use more amps and thus have more power and also the common problem
we see as too much heat.

I'm using the same wire length in the 18v motor on my own coils so I should not have
the heating problem.

Norman

[iankoglin]

Rewiring

The rewiring uses half the wire in a given slot for a motor and the other half for a generator
which means it will use more amps and thus have more power and also the common problem
we see as too much heat.

I'm using the same wire length in the 18v motor on my own coils so I should not have
the heating problem.

Norman

G'Day Norman

I Believe that one coil/strand of wire between 1 pair of brushes is divided in half still one strand half is connected to a commutator segment and wound CCW looking from the outside of the Armature and still the same strand the other half is wound CW looking from the outside of the armature still only one strand and this end of this single strand is connected to the corresponding Commutator segment of the other commutator this single wire is Used both halves as a Generator or both halves as a motor.

At any time when on one end of the armature this strand/ Commutator segment is connected to a Motor brush the corresponding commutator segment on the other end of armature to the corresponding power brush so that this one strand is energised causing half of the single strand to be a magnetic South and at the same time the other end of the single strand is a North pole when the brushes leave these commutator segments the poles are immediately reversed and therefore help to pull/push the armature.

Depending how wide the brushes are they cover more than the one commutator segment pair and therefore more than one strand is energised at any one time.
When the commutator segments come in contact with the Generator brushes the exact opposite takes place and therfore the motor is balanced magnetically and should run smooth.

So any one strand is either a generator or motor coil at any one time Not Both

This is my understanding as to what takes place If I am wrong I am sure I will be corrected.

Kindest Regards


Kogs always working

[Gints]

Antiphase PWM signals

Hi, Ufopolitics,

I have started to test your motor feeding with PWM signal. Can you please explain me the purpose and advantages of using antiphase or opposite phase signals to feed your motor?
Thank you.

[norman6538]

G'Day Norman

I Believe that one coil/strand of wire between 1 pair of brushes is divided in half still one strand half is connected to a commutator segment and wound CCW looking from the outside of the Armature and still the same strand the other half is wound CW looking from the outside of the armature still only one strand and this end of this single strand is connected to the corresponding Commutator segment of the other commutator this single wire is Used both halves as a Generator or both halves as a motor.

At any time when on one end of the armature this strand/ Commutator segment is connected to a Motor brush the corresponding commutator segment on the other end of armature to the corresponding power brush so that this one strand is energised causing half of the single strand to be a magnetic South and at the same time the other end of the single strand is a North pole when the brushes leave these commutator segments the poles are immediately reversed and therefore help to pull/push the armature.

Depending how wide the brushes are they cover more than the one commutator segment pair and therefore more than one strand is energised at any one time.
When the commutator segments come in contact with the Generator brushes the exact opposite takes place and therfore the motor is balanced magnetically and should run smooth.

So any one strand is either a generator or motor coil at any one time Not Both

This is my understanding as to what takes place If I am wrong I am sure I will be corrected.

Kindest Regards


Kogs always working

Thank you Ian for your input. You are the first person to get your head wrapped around
the coil/commutator/btush timing stuff. I'm cogitating/thinking about the cw/ccw point. I did not
hear anyone say the coils had different winding directions. Is that true folks?

My big concern now is about proper 180 degree coil/commutator/brush electrical matched phasing. If this is not right it will degrade the potential and we have to get all the potential
there is. The 2 brush even combination with the odd coil setup is probably designed to make the motor start by never being at a magnet coil lockup point. So for now I am sticking
with two pole where its dead on.

Norman

[Ufopolitics]

Norman...Norman...

Thank you Ian for your input. You are the first person to get your head wrapped around
the coil/commutator/btush timing stuff. I'm cogitating/thinking about the cw/ccw point. I did not
hear anyone say the coils had different winding directions. Is that true folks?

My big concern now is about proper 180 degree coil/commutator/brush electrical matched phasing. If this is not right it will degrade the potential and we have to get all the potential
there is. The 2 brush even combination with the odd coil setup is probably designed to make the motor start by never being at a magnet coil lockup point. So for now I am sticking
with two pole where its dead on.

Norman

Hello Norman,

If this is not right it will degrade the potential and we have to get all the potential

Norman...Norman...it has been less than 24 Hours you have gotten to find about My Machines...it's been less time than that... you are "starting" to "understand" them...and yet...You are trying to focus on "possible mistakes, errors" with this Machines Design?

ONE thing, I recommend you do first is "Study Them FURTHER"... deeper than what you have been "seeing" so far...which to me, the creator...is not enough...You are still not understanding their real behavior-performance...

I honestly consider your "late approaches" a bit daring, ranting...criticizing what you have absolutely NO IDEA CONCLUDED YET...Or very INCOMPLETE.

My "counseling" is that you "rewind" your tape...and go back and re-read everything again, and again...before coming to any wrong conclusions that could get me upset...please.

I have been "nice to you" so far...don't "push your luck".

Appreciate that.


Thanks


Ufopolitics

[iankoglin]

Different winding Directions

Thank you Ian for your input. You are the first person to get your head wrapped around
the coil/commutator/btush timing stuff. I'm cogitating/thinking about the cw/ccw point.
I did nothear anyone say the coils had different winding directions. Is that true folks?

My big concern now is about proper 180 degree coil/commutator/brush electrical matched phasing. If this is not right it will degrade the potential and we have to get all the potential
there is. The 2 brush even combination with the odd coil setup is probably designed to make the motor start by never being at a magnet coil lockup point. So for now I am sticking
with two pole where its dead on.

Norman

G'Day Norman

Take a length of wire say 1 meter long wind it CW around a round piece of pipe wood broomstick or whatever as a core say 20 turns.
Take it off the core and what do you have a coil of wire 20 or so turns
Now carefully bend this coil in half at 180 degrees and now notice that this coil seems to now be one strand two separate windings joined together half CCW and half CW CCW

Kindest Regards


Kogs still at it

[Ufopolitics]

I now understand the motor timing and commutating and the 3 pole is bad but the 5 pole is about right because of the 360 degree rotation design. pole timing commutating understood - first the current goes from brush to coil to brush
from one commutator to the other motor end and are aligned so they are timmed up the same
and each coil is off and waiting till the brush arrives for its one firing in 360 degrees, so one
brush of each end is a set
for the motor and one brush of each end is a set for the generator,

but there is a timing problem with the required efficiency of the 90 degree on/attract and 90 off
to coast
because first of all the brush has width and on begins at its leading edge
and stops at its trailing edge. So if the brush width is 15 degrees that
has to be added to the 120 degrees of the commutator segment giving 135 degrees on
which is way too much...because it will attract back after dead center with power on.
5 pole is a much better because that would be 72 degrees plus 15 giving 85 degrees.

Each coil passes by a motor brush then after 180 degrees it passes a generator brush.

So I am making a lidmotor style simple 2 pole motor to get he wired up right and working.
The small rotor and wires is way too tough for my fingers to manipulate. And I do not
understand why the coils are wound in pairs stretching further than the span of 2 rotor
segments.

Lying down to rest today with my brain turned on brought me to this understanding.
Norman

Norman,

but there is a timing problem with the required efficiency of the 90 degree on/attract and 90 off
to coast because first of all the brush has width and on begins at its leading edge
and stops at its trailing edge.

There are "NO PROBLEMS AT ALL WITH THIS MACHINES"...The "only problem" is that You Do NOT understand them right.
You have not even started to build the first machine yet...do that... and then write, speak...

I have developed this machines for many years back...THINK, THEY DO NOT NEED ANYONE...to walk in here trying to make ANY IMPROVEMENTS...OK?!

You are turning "ON THE COMPLETE WRONG STREET."..there is a complete DEAD END there...

Return back...get the "Straight Road" and I will explain...or keep going as you please....You will hit a solid brick wall.


OK?


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Correct Ian...

G'Day Norman

I Believe that one coil/strand of wire between 1 pair of brushes is divided in half still one strand half is connected to a commutator segment and wound CCW looking from the outside of the Armature and still the same strand the other half is wound CW looking from the outside of the armature still only one strand and this end of this single strand is connected to the corresponding Commutator segment of the other commutator this single wire is Used both halves as a Generator or both halves as a motor.

At any time when on one end of the armature this strand/ Commutator segment is connected to a Motor brush the corresponding commutator segment on the other end of armature to the corresponding power brush so that this one strand is energised causing half of the single strand to be a magnetic South and at the same time the other end of the single strand is a North pole when the brushes leave these commutator segments the poles are immediately reversed and therefore help to pull/push the armature.

Depending how wide the brushes are they cover more than the one commutator segment pair and therefore more than one strand is energised at any one time.
When the commutator segments come in contact with the Generator brushes the exact opposite takes place and therfore the motor is balanced magnetically and should run smooth.

So any one strand is either a generator or motor coil at any one time Not Both

This is my understanding as to what takes place If I am wrong I am sure I will be corrected.

Kindest Regards


Kogs always working

Good Day my Friend!!


Ian you are completely right in your explanation...no corrections required...


Regards friend!


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Gints

Hi, Ufopolitics,

I have started to test your motor feeding with PWM signal. Can you please explain me the purpose and advantages of using antiphase or opposite phase signals to feed your motor?
Thank you.

Hello Gints,

Ok, you are pulsing your motors...that is great...what power input are you using...and can you adjust to low frequencies...starting from zero?

If You do...and you are using either 12 or 24 Volts...do the following.

Get a couple of your NTE576 and connect them to your Machine straight Output (no jumper between bottom terminals)

Connect Diodes blocking your Positive and Negative Outputs...or

Out (+)---l<---DVM Negative Probe (-)
Out (-) --->l---DVM Positive Probe (+)

Then measure with a DVM after diodes...as I wrote above...

You will get a "Positive" Reading there, and if you could "Scope" both measurements in different Channels...(before and after diodes) you will find out they are different voltage signals (by a few volts difference)

Now get a 120 V Neon...and install it after diodes...but pulsing very slow from zero up...dial the pot really slow till you get to see the Neon electrodes a Purple-White very bright Plasma Sphere...wobbling...And I mean this is so slow that Motor Shaft will be just "Pulsing Not whole rotation" at 5-10 degrees or even smaller turns...

That is Radiant Energy right there...Now the Orange light you see at electrodes bottom...is the bad filtering from diodes allowing some hot getting through...You could add two 1N4148...after the NTE576...and get just the purple plasma sphere...

Now the Anti-phase Signal (I have seen you are really going deep into my previous thread...which is great!)...That signal creates a better Network for Radiant to Flow in-out of my Machines...so there will not be a Hot Positive steadily at one side terminal of Input...

By making that test...you will understand that after Inductor reverses its Hot currents (when leaving input contacts)...Radiant is there Opposite to its already reversed flow...

Please let me know how Tests went on.

Regards


Ufopolitics

[norman6538]

motor understanding

Norman,



There are "NO PROBLEMS AT ALL WITH THIS MACHINES"...The "only problem" is that You Do NOT understand them right.
You have not even started to build the first machine yet...do that... and then write, speak...

I have developed this machines for many years back...THINK, THEY DO NOT NEED ANYONE...to walk in here trying to make ANY IMPROVEMENTS...OK?!

You are turning "ON THE COMPLETE WRONG STREET."..there is a complete DEAD END there...

Return back...get the "Straight Road" and I will explain...or keep going as you please....You will hit a solid brick wall.



OK?


Ufopolitics

Here is where I am. I've been working at motors for about 8 years Bedini SG and made the Alexander motor wrong because I did not understand it properly. So now I study to understand properly before I work at the bench so my garage does not get filled up with any more boxes of failed ideas.

No one has been able to explain the simple 3/5 pole motor brush overlap operation to me
so I have to stick with what I can understand at the 2 pole 180 degree design level.
If I succeed there then perhaps I can understand the 3/5 pole design and progress from there.

Remember, I am going back to lidmotor's simple construction.

Thanks for alll of your efforts. I like the design of this motor but I'm in first grade.
I'd love to have a friend close by to work with but those kind of folks are few and
far between. I'd love to attend a workshop on this motor too similar to what
someone mentioned in this forum.

I'm struggleing hard, cut me some slack

Norman

OK?