My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[sebosfato]

Great man! Thanks a lot for looking it.

I'm working at it... almost 1/2 done with the windings

i hope to put it to work today

Now i think i'm starting to understand how a motor and generator really work.

Thankful feeling it will help me a lot with my projects.

[thaelin]

Hey UFO:
Since my little motor has 4 magnets instead of 2, how does that change the way you lay it out. I can see it with 4 coils easy enough. Trying to use the wedge layout is a bit fuzzy to me. I would really like to do this which ever way is the most efficient.
The way I look at it, the modified motor will take less than half of the original voltage to run strong. If it has gen coils as well, even less. Not trying to be a bore but this will help out a lot. I have the core stripped and ready to wire up. Shellack is a real pain in the a.. too.

thay

[Ufopolitics]

Four Stators-Four Magnets...

Hey UFO:
Since my little motor has 4 magnets instead of 2, how does that change the way you lay it out. I can see it with 4 coils easy enough. Trying to use the wedge layout is a bit fuzzy to me. I would really like to do this which ever way is the most efficient.
The way I look at it, the modified motor will take less than half of the original voltage to run strong. If it has gen coils as well, even less. Not trying to be a bore but this will help out a lot. I have the core stripped and ready to wire up. Shellack is a real pain in the a.. too.

thay

Hello Thaelin,

If your Motor has Four Magnets or Stators...is even better!!

You will design a Two Pair of Coils (Four Total Coils) each one interacting to assist rotation related to each one of the Four Magnets, at MOTOR-INPUT...that's where you start the analysis..
Then at GENERATOR-OUTPUT...will be another Two Pairs or Four Coils...However, They are supposed to be reversed related to Stators...(looking like they will kill, or counter-effect rotation)...that means they are perfect...I know...it does not make sense right..?...
Well ,figure that when they get there...They will be reversed...that is how you have to figure it out...

Now if you just have a Two Brush Set-up with Four Stators (which is not typical set)...then use Pairs connected in Parallel to each respective positive-negative Commutator Elements...

Understood?



Regards


Ufopolitics

I believe the BOSCH Design will help you there

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Dear Sanskara

Hello UFO

I'm planning to convert this motor from an old vacuum cleaner, It has 24 poles, can this be converted? Planning to do it this weekend, can you give me an advice what type of design I should follow?? is the pentagon design applicable to this one? Thanks

Hello Dear Sanskara,

In your pictures, I see a very short armature core...and bigger commutators...is it a Pancake Design Armature?

A 24 Pole ...Not the Pentagon...they apply to multiples of Five...

For your 24 Pole, use the P12 Later one...(that I have not tested in real model yet), You will have 24 Pairs, or 48 Coils Total (huge thing!)

Or you could go with the 20 Pole BOSCH Concept...which ever one you will feel you understand it better...



Regards


Ufopolitics

[Sanskara316]

Hello Dear Sanskara,

In your pictures, I see a very short armature core...and bigger commutators...is it a Pancake Design Armature?

A 24 Pole ...Not the Pentagon...they apply to multiples of Five...

For your 24 Pole, use the P12 Later one...(that I have not tested in real model yet), You will have 24 Pairs, or 48 Coils Total (huge thing!)

Or you could go with the 20 Pole BOSCH Concept...which ever one you will feel you understand it better...



Regards


Ufopolitics

Hello Ufo , Thanks for the reply, I'm not sure if it a pancake design, I'll give it a try with the 20 pole concept.

[s e t h]

auto scrap yard

in case anyone is having trouble locating motors to modify i found a good selection of cheap motors at an auto scrap yard. several types had a fair number of each making it easy to get 3 of the same type for modding.
the ones i chose were 12 pole designed for some sort of air blower function.

i'll be winding it as a 3 pole initially and building it in such a way that the brushes are in a fixed position, open rotor, magnets rotatable around the rotor so that i can reconfigure the contacts and magnet position between standar symmetrical and assymetrical design.

that should give a half decent platform to test between the two designs using all the exact same components switching only the commutator connections and the magnet position to switch between modded and unmodded design. i'll move on to pulsed stator/rotor later.

if i leave a pole open between the windings i get effectively twice as much space to wind each coil. i hope this won't cause any issues?

each coil will have very low resistance so i can't see this being suitable for the pulsed rotor/stator application.
Ufopolitics in your pulsed stator/rotor video were your rotor coils about 1ohm or as i suspect way less than 1ohm each?

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Seth

in case anyone is having trouble locating motors to modify i found a good selection of cheap motors at an auto scrap yard. several types had a fair number of each making it easy to get 3 of the same type for modding.
the ones i chose were 12 pole designed for some sort of air blower function.

i'll be winding it as a 3 pole initially and building it in such a way that the brushes are in a fixed position, open rotor, magnets rotatable around the rotor so that i can reconfigure the contacts and magnet position between standar symmetrical and assymetrical design.

that should give a half decent platform to test between the two designs using all the exact same components switching only the commutator connections and the magnet position to switch between modded and unmodded design. i'll move on to pulsed stator/rotor later.

if i leave a pole open between the windings i get effectively twice as much space to wind each coil. i hope this won't cause any issues?

each coil will have very low resistance so i can't see this being suitable for the pulsed rotor/stator application.
Ufopolitics in your pulsed stator/rotor video were your rotor coils about 1ohm or as i suspect way less than 1ohm each?

Hello Seth,

Those are great Motors to convert, very rough made.
And yes, you could just jump one Pole, like you have it there...However the only thing I see wrong are your colors...If you are going to be winding a Single Three Pole...then ALL must be Blue-Green or Shades of Both, this Motors have either ALL North...or ALL South...
If you were referring to the David Star...then One triangle is Blue, and the other in the Red side shades...

My Armatures Coils never go too low resistance...for many reasons...

1-A very low resistance (0.7 to 0.5) will never generate a strong magnetic field...plus a definitive short circuit, not meaning for pulsing...but when linear is worst...gets boiling hot...energy is wasted there by tons...as heat increase it drops power...and a burnt wire...

2-Coil storage capacity is at greater amounts of wire (bigger resistance)...we need this as it stores and discharges at all times greater amounts of energy...

3- Use of Bifilar wound Coils, increases magnetic field... lower resistance, but we have to make our "balance" there...but, remember, we are working here , primarily, with the Magnetic Field...and the many Patterns that will generate bringing excellent results.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Iotayodi]

1-A very low resistance (0.7 to 0.5) will never generate a strong magnetic field...plus a definitive short circuit, not meaning for pulsing...but when linear is worst...gets boiling hot...energy is wasted there by tons...as heat increase it drops power...and a burnt wire...

2-Coil storage capacity is at greater amounts of wire (bigger resistance)...we need this as it stores and discharges at all times greater amounts of energy...

3- Use of Bifilar wound Coils, increases magnetic field... lower resistance, but we have to make our "balance" there...but, remember, we are working here , primarily, with the Magnetic Field...and the many Patterns that will generate bringing excellent results.

Do you think a low remanence iron wire would work with this type of winding?

[Ufopolitics]

We never needed steel...Iotayodi...

Do you think a low remanence iron wire would work with this type of winding?

Hello Iotayodi,

Normally the "ideal" type of steel and material in general, for this Machines would be one with the lowest to zero "magnetic memory"...since they are ultra fast swapping magnetic polarities...

Now related to wire...there is a Silver alloy insulated with Teflon...that works better than Copper...very expensive though...and much lighter.

But I am in the making of a Model (as a learning tool video)... of a small motor...where there is no steel, no lamination's...no magnets...just Copper and Wood...and a few small bolts just to hold the assy together...

...and yes... it turns.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[s e t h]

thank Ufopolitics

yes my bad on the colours...they just represent the 3 coils and not N/S in anyway.

my difficulty with getting higher resistance is that i will wind up using thinner wire...which earlier was posted as not being a good idea.
and i'll need the thinner wire even without bifilar layout.
with bifilar it would have to go even thinner than single wire coil i think.

i guess i will do my best to aim for 1ohm on each coil and then also 1 ohm on the pulsed stator at a later stage.
if i burn up thin wire then i will have learned something

thanks again

[thaelin]

Well finally got the wiring done just to find out the commutator side doesn't have enough room to clear now. ;( That was with 20 turns per coil too. I am just about 2mm shy of working so am going to try a stand out on that end.

Der fingers are raw now too. Neck hurts. Where's that advil and a beer.

thay

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Funny commutator

Hello UFO,

OK, I'm starting to get in gear with the new motor building now. I have a motor to modify. It is a .5hp, so it's not going to be a very small undertaking.

My question is: Can I skip every other contact on the commutator as the rotor has 20 divisions (I don't know what they are called) and the commutator has 40 contacts? I was thinking that leaving a space in between each contact would shorten the duty cycle and make a clean break before the next set of poles were formed. The brushes are barely wider than one contact, so with the space already allowed between contacts plus a full contact being dead, then the overlap between coil change would be minimized. What do you think?

I've also got two 1/10th hp motors coming for modifying next, before I take on the above motor.

Can you suggest how big a motor would be needed to provide 300w of power and charge batteries to continually cycle the energy for running the motor? What's it going to take to have a system that is self sustaining?

Thanks again and don't let some of the guys get you down. You don't have to prove anything...you are the gift giver! If they don't want to prove it for themselves, let them miss out.

You friend,

Bob

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Neon switch.

UFO,

Also, today I ran 120v AC into a FWBR, then took the DC Pos. to the Pos. of a 12v, 16Ah lead acid battery. The DC Neg. I ran to a 220 ohm resistor, to a 20uF cap, to a NE-2 neon bulb, then to the Neg. of the battery. It is charging the using the neon as a 90v spark gap. Measuring the Amps at the resistor I get a 3mA draw. I get the 120 from an inverter running off a 12v battery, so I need to measure the draw there. I haven't done that yet. Hopefully it won't be to awfully much. But I was thinking that I could use a voltage multiplier instead of the inverter and maybe saves some amps there. (?)

Any ideas?

Bob

[Ufopolitics]

Hello UFO,

OK, I'm starting to get in gear with the new motor building now. I have a motor to modify. It is a .5hp, so it's not going to be a very small undertaking.

My question is: Can I skip every other contact on the commutator as the rotor has 20 divisions (I don't know what they are called) and the commutator has 40 contacts? I was thinking that leaving a space in between each contact would shorten the duty cycle and make a clean break before the next set of poles were formed. The brushes are barely wider than one contact, so with the space already allowed between contacts plus a full contact being dead, then the overlap between coil change would be minimized. What do you think?

I've also got two 1/10th hp motors coming for modifying next, before I take on the above motor.

Can you suggest how big a motor would be needed to provide 300w of power and charge batteries to continually cycle the energy for running the motor? What's it going to take to have a system that is self sustaining?

Thanks again and don't let some of the guys get you down. You don't have to prove anything...you are the gift giver! If they don't want to prove it for themselves, let them miss out.

You friend,

Bob

Hello Dear Friend,

That Motor will be great, Bob!!
Now, if it has 20 Poles (that is how "the divisions" are called, some call them teeth also) 20 Poles and 40 Commutator Elements...Your great design there would be the BOSCH Type...Now, how many Stators-Magnets?...If it is a 5HP should be Four Stators and Four Brushes...is that right?

Related to leaving every other element contact at commutator could leave room for motor not to start at that "dead point"...it would be better to join two elements with your Pair of Coils wire...making the Commutator a 20 Elements. At the end it will have more "time on" as also more "delivery time on" at Generator stage...
However Bob, you could try that at both ways...after winding it...just jumping each two comm segments-elements and taking read outs...

Can you suggest how big a motor would be needed to provide 300w of power and charge batteries to continually cycle the energy for running the motor? What's it going to take to have a system that is self sustaining?

A Self Sustaining System that works in a "relax mode" at continuous duty...meaning not stressed and overheated over time...requires a "Duality" of My Machines related to Armatures, but singled shafted, that dual armature would be wrapped around a Common Stator (like the Asymmetric Singled Coiled one I have shown before)...We will collect Energy Out from Motor's Coils, from Generator at full side of its Fields ...and also from Our Huge Stator Coil Fields... ...Want more?!...

300 Watts ...will be produced with a 36 Battery Bank with at least 8.33 Amps (Which is nothing in Amps)...as power source...to the system above...then you will get it multiplied at output...depending on Machine Design, it will easily recharge that Battery Bank and get you greater Output than 300 Watts...

However, it could be also calculated with a smaller Bank of 24 V...and smaller machine..

Motor needs to be of low consumption, heavy torque...Therefore a Three Single Coil or a Star of David would be the best choices...
Generator Armature needs to have as many poles as we could get, as also as elongated as possible...and we will wind it with as many short but long Pairs of Coils as we could fit there...

I still have to go over the Coil-Capacitor application here...that will enhance everything...as you also know for that kind of generating systems.


Regards Dear friend

Take care


Ufopolitics

[JJUK]

UFO Learning Tool

Hi UFO,

But I am in the making of a Model (as a learning tool video)... of a small motor...where there is no steel, no lamination's...no magnets...just Copper and Wood...and a few small bolts just to hold the assy together...

...and yes... it turns.

Having seen Lidmotor's successful efforts with his learning tool I am very much looking forward to your version UFO. Sounds to me as though that's the one that those of us with less experience (I'm including myself in that statement) should be starting with. Hopefully it will also allow more flexibility for modification so more learning can be had!

JJUK