My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

Welcome

Hello all,

to all here doing the right thing!

I'm in part of the world where selection is not great.

I would like to work with some power, maybe 1hp or better.
looking at P Kelly's book the 3 pole might be good.

looking at playing with some DC motors. Rewinding for powerful results.

When it comes to purchasing them I need to know more specifics,
they have
3 phase
shaded pole
brushless
perm mag
what rpm,
what voltage?
and more.

all questions I will need to answer,

please point me in the proper direction.

Thanks in advance,

Hello Vertical Lift,

I like your name...Vertical Lift=VTOL (Vertical Take Off and Landing) Crafts...

Ok,

When it comes to purchasing them I need to know more specifics,
they have
3 phase
shaded pole
brushless
perm mag
what rpm,
what voltage?

Permanent Magnets (in Blue) are the ones Dear, none of all the others...are "modifiable"...

Now the Voltage and RPM's do not matter...or torque...You are gonna "blow" all that...so "Spec's" do not matter.

Look for long shafted motors, that are rough build, not "lite"...if they have bearings instead of bushings...MUCH BETTER...and please try to get the "Elongated Bodies" one, meaning NO Pancake Motors...or Flat Bodies.

The Other Motors within the A/C -D/C that are also modifiable are the called "Universal Motors"...they do have brush-commutators...but no magnets...instead two or four wound stators...those are for more experimented replications though...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Thanks Dad Hav

Hey Dave, forgive me for putting my 2 cents in here but do you need to make a wheel with a 1 foot diameter or a 1 foot circumference. There would be a big difference. Remember there may be some heat generated from friction. Are you concerned about using plastic?
J

Hello Dad Hav,

Hey, thanks for finding this error in Dave post...honestly, I did not notice ...it would have been a big set back in time...

Thanks, appreciate that!

Regards


Ufopolitics

[bbem]

Dead lead batteries

Hey Bob or Dana,
If I remember correctly you have been experimenting with charging lead batteries.
Do you know of a setup to desulficate/rejuvenate dead lead batteries?

Is possible with the coil-setup or with a assym motor (since both attrack/generate radiant energy)?

Thanks.

Regards, Bert

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Bob

UFO et al,

I hope to start modifying a motor soon. I may start on the larger motor which has twice as many elements on the comm as poles on the rotor (I hope I got the terminology correct there). I also noticed that the trigger angle shown on one of the drawings crossed the perm. magnets (or N and S fields) at a place that didn't include all of the magnet (or field), but bisected them.

So I have two questions.

1) If I take the 20 poles and divide them into 5 sections (4 poles each) to wind around, can I attach the wire to a set of elements that are 90 degrees around the side so that the brush housing can remain basically where it is normally and still relate to the windings correctly? This way I would only have to adjust the second set of brushes to align with the first which would need no modifying at all.

2) If I wind as described above (having 8 elements for each coil set), can I use only 7 of them as contacts, leaving one unused in order to increase the separation between the firing of the separate coil sets? Could I possibly even leave two as separators? Each element is 9 degrees of rotation (360/40 = 9).

Whatcha think?

Bob

Hello Bob,

Great, I am very glad you are going for it!!

Ok, let me "number" my answers...matching yours...

1) If you have 20 Poles...it would be much better to divide them in Four (4) sections, and wind around Five Poles...why?...You will have a bigger throw angle...more torque, more speed...than just Four pole coils...Now, I believe you do have Four Stators and Four Brush configuration right?...So then do My BOSCH 20 POLES.
If You divide it in Five sections, you will be limited by the Five Poles design...which is for two stators, two brushes.

Ok, now related to Commutator hooking...Yes, you do can attach terminal wires to the element where brush will energize it (in your case at 90)...as long as you keep the same sequence for all of other connections, upper-lower...

2)You can leave One segment-element at commutator...as long as brushes will always be touching at least a "start" of the next element...other wise you will get a "Dead Start Point" right there...if it "falls" in perfect alignment with brush Motor will not start...So, Bob, it also depends on Brush size...per element...that will answer also for more than one element not connected..


Warm regards


Ufopolitics

[Gints]

Rotor 12P/24C/2Com

Hi, Ufo and All,

Here is rewinded rotor from modified motor 2S/12P/24C/2Com/2x2B. The wire I use was 24AWG. Before there was 18AWG coils. The motor now is asambled. It works very good. It is tested for run 15min without stop. Temperature of coils, brushes and shaft not goes up more than 40C.

As next step will be to prepare another similar mod motor and all necessary accessories for testing tasks. The next will be video with motor tests.

[s e t h]

functional

it is finally robust enough to switch between asymmetric and symmetric modes and to rotate magnets while running for maximum rpm.
also it hasn't blown up yet powerd by a 12v li-po.

i'll try post a video in a day or so and i think analysing the audio track is going to be the simplest way to measure rpm...unless anyone has got some decent ideas on how best i can achieve that?

the second commutator may need replacing as it adds a lot of resistance when in asymmetric mode :-/

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Clarification

UFO,

Alright...sounds good.

As far as the brushes, the original motor has two (2) brushes and the modified will have two (2) brushes at each end. There are two (2) magnets in the housing (one N, one S). Can I break it up into four (4) sections (which is preferable), or am I limited to the five (5) section setup? From what you said I would think that I am limited to using five (5) sections of four (4) poles each.

The original seems to be wound with 18AWG. Should I use the same size wire for the modification? And keep the coils around 1.4-1.6 ohms per set? My goal here is to provide modest energy generation and to do so frugally.

Thanks again,

Bob

Hello Bob,

Great, I am very glad you are going for it!!

Ok, let me "number" my answers...matching yours...

1) If you have 20 Poles...it would be much better to divide them in Four (4) sections, and wind around Five Poles...why?...You will have a bigger throw angle...more torque, more speed...than just Four pole coils...Now, I believe you do have Four Stators and Four Brush configuration right?...So then do My BOSCH 20 POLES.
If You divide it in Five sections, you will be limited by the Five Poles design...which is for two stators, two brushes.

Ok, now related to Commutator hooking...Yes, you do can attach terminal wires to the element where brush will energize it (in your case at 90)...as long as you keep the same sequence for all of other connections, upper-lower...

2)You can leave One segment-element at commutator...as long as brushes will always be touching at least a "start" of the next element...other wise you will get a "Dead Start Point" right there...if it "falls" in perfect alignment with brush Motor will not start...So, Bob, it also depends on Brush size...per element...that will answer also for more than one element not connected..


Warm regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Hello Gints, great work!

Hi, Ufo and All,

Here is rewinded rotor from modified motor 2S/12P/24C/2Com/2x2B. The wire I use was 24AWG. Before there was 18AWG coils. The motor now is asambled. It works very good. It is tested for run 15min without stop. Temperature of coils, brushes and shaft not goes up more than 40C.

As next step will be to prepare another similar mod motor and all necessary accessories for testing tasks. The next will be video with motor tests.

Hello Gints,

Nice job there!...I am glad you got it running and excellent temperature.!!
Now according to picture, one thing I noted is that you have to secure those wires more tight there..may be because of picture angle, but it seems wire is about to pop out loose from the Poles Gaps...have to pack them with wood or plastic round soft edges (not to strip insulation clear) and see if you could run some hedges there, between poles to contain from coming out again.

Other than that minor detail, they look awesome!

Regards

Ufopolitics

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Seth,

It looks like there is a little room on the comm that you could put a white dot (maybe 1/4" x 1/4" using WhiteOut) and use a inexpensive laser tach to read the rpms.

Great idea to change from Asymmetrical to Symmetrical!

Bob

[Gints]

Thank you for your comment, Ufo!

This loose wire was from last pair of coils...it was re-winded more tighten before rotor was installed in to motor.

[bobfrench@fastmail.fm]

Desulfating Batteries

Bert,

Dana thinks that the very simple Monopole Energizer that we used to build in Bedini's Monopole3 group de-sulfates best. I don't know, but it seems to me that anything that is sending RE into the battery is going to work. I've even been experimenting with a very simple cap dump system to take advantage of the E-Amp effect that Bearden talks about to see it that will do the trick. It definitely charges them, but it will take a little time to see it it conditions them too. I also burst a seam of a 75 Ah battery because of H2 igniting within. (That was fun!) I was using a 30uF, 250v cap charged to about 134v. I think a better approach might be a much smaller cap (1uF?) and solid state timer at around 450Hz. I'm just guessing. Maybe even just a 24v charge might do it. (?)

I'm sure Dana will have some ideas.

Good luck,

Bob

Hey Bob or Dana,
If I remember correctly you have been experimenting with charging lead batteries.
Do you know of a setup to desulficate/rejuvenate dead lead batteries?

Is possible with the coil-setup or with a assym motor (since both attrack/generate radiant energy)?

Thanks.

Regards, Bert

[Ufopolitics]

Ok Bob...

UFO,

Alright...sounds good.

As far as the brushes, the original motor has two (2) brushes and the modified will have two (2) brushes at each end. There are two (2) magnets in the housing (one N, one S). Can I break it up into four (4) sections (which is preferable), or am I limited to the five (5) section setup? From what you said I would think that I am limited to using five (5) sections of four (4) poles each.

The original seems to be wound with 18AWG. Should I use the same size wire for the modification? And keep the coils around 1.4-1.6 ohms per set? My goal here is to provide modest energy generation and to do so frugally.

Thanks again,

Bob

Ok Bob,


If it is not a 4 Stator-4 Brush, then you can not apply the robust 20 poles set up...I mean you could but not simple deal...
Now, besides the Five Pole type you could use the Dual Pentagon and grab four poles per side...that is a more robust set than the Radio Shack Five Pole type.

The original seems to be wound with 18AWG. Should I use the same size wire for the modification?

It depends Bob, on the space you've got there...normally Symmetric Motors have a lot of room left...

My goal here is to provide modest energy generation and to do so frugally.

Bob, in order to produce electricity, after satisfying the whole system, (Self Sustained) I have already explained...You need more robust machines...Four Stators, Four Brushes, and then Dual Machines...One A Motor and the other A Dedicated Generator for 100% Output.
You have to figure One Machine will produce the Motor force and still render some energy out, but NOT enough to Fulfill the whole thing, that Motor must be robust with high torque-speed...and you will only achieve that with either a Big Three Pole...a Star of David...or 20 or more poles and Four Element at stator-brushes....Then the Generator...the bigger sized elongated... the better...and the more slots (poles) with lots of room...the better...then the more wire-coils you could get...the more power you will get out...

We could get Motor-Generator in ONE single assembly...But investing a lot of Money to make it from scratch...the whole thing design to be the best at bests...but I know we do not have here the funds to make it so...so we are working with what we have...and that is not much...

Now every Energy Generator out there have a 1)Prime Mover and 2) a Generator side...this is exactly the same thing, except, we have a Prime Mover that also generates, but NOT enough to "Self Sustain...but producing a very high torque, and being able to turn the Generator at fast speeds...

So Bob, I can not guarantee that Motor you are building will fulfill your needs...as we are all here experimenting with a new type of technology...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Nice!!

it is finally robust enough to switch between asymmetric and symmetric modes and to rotate magnets while running for maximum rpm.
also it hasn't blown up yet powerd by a 12v li-po.

i'll try post a video in a day or so and i think analysing the audio track is going to be the simplest way to measure rpm...unless anyone has got some decent ideas on how best i can achieve that?

the second commutator may need replacing as it adds a lot of resistance when in asymmetric mode :-/

Nice set there Seth!

Now...Is it the Commutator with the switches the one offering higher resistance?
If so...I asked you about switches resistance...and you said no...they do not have R...
Is it resistance in friction?...or resistance between elements, causing a short?

About Tachometers...I been looking for a Laser one...but Bob...I have not found a "Cheap One"...yet...all range between $70.00 to over $100.00...and not that "Major Brand Name"...
I have an Infra Red...that you need to add a piece of reflective tape...I particularly do not like it...I got it a few years ago...and is a great brand...but the Laser's are much better(precise)..and can go to very small shafts...
There are cheaper ones $29.99 to $32.99 at Harbor Freight...first one (cheaper) is a roller touch type (piece of Sh**T)...and the second is an IR...not bad for the price...

Regards


Ufopolitics

[IndianaBoys]

Tachometer made from a bicycle speedometer (cyclocomputer)

Maybe this will fulfill the requests/needs for a tachometer at a reduced cost:

Tachometer made from a bicycle speedometer (cyclocomputer)
Tachometer made from a bicycle speedometer (cyclocomputer)

You will only need 1 thing:
A cyclocomputer that reads in MPH and that lets you enter a wheel size in millimeters. Almost all of them do.

IndianaBoys

[s e t h]

IndianaBoys - i will try get hold of a cyclocomputer...i did investigate but was told it wouldn't handle the speeds involved...i guess i should just try it and see.
thanks

Ufopolitics - i think its the commutator, brush and wire all together adding resistance and its the set away from the switches.
the switches are used in both configurations and if i measure commutator to commutator the resistances seems decent...but if i measure through the input/output wires i get readings all over the place and generally substantially higher in the asymmetric mode.
the commutator/brushes away from the switches is badly worn with grooves and half length brushes...if i can't fix the problem with sandpaper i'll get a third motor to strip...having higher resistance in asymmetric mode wouldn't be a fair test as i'm pretty sure less current will get through the coils causing weaker magnetic fields and reduced performance.

edit: i have a 420mb video of it running in both modes which i'll try get uploaded...it seems a tad slower in asymmetric mode which considering the extra resistance isn't suprising /edit