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  • Zardox
    replied
    Goldmine motor

    This is the motor I used http://www.goldmine-elec-products.co...?number=G18945
    They are larger but I also found them more difficult to work with than the radio shack motors. The shaft is not long enough for one thing. What I did was to cut and put two of them end to end which worked but the alignment has to be just perfect and I am thinking that is where my downfall was. I haven't had the time to take it apart to really see what actually happened. Probably not until winter but by that time I hope to be building something bigger.

    Leave a comment:


  • asollid
    replied
    motor

    Hi Zardox may i ask exactly which Goldmine motor you used? I want to get a couple of them. I hear they are larger than my RS motors. Thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • GChilders
    replied
    Moving forward

    @ufoPolitics,

    I have been extremely busy with many changes recently and unable to post results from some of the tests. I have moved and needed a bit of work on the house that I moved into. Anyway I have ordered 3 ufo kits from Dianne, purchased the wire the wire to rewire them, 18 awg ; and ordered 50 super caps from Mouser. They are the 300f 2.7 volt type. In addition to this I have purchased three quads to convert from gasoline to asymmetrical motor. I am going to leave one of them as a gasoline version, as I have two identical makes and models, for side by side comparisons. I am interested in ordering high speed bearings for the imperials, does anyone have a part# for these? I do not think that I want to spend the money for ceramic at this time.

    Leave a comment:


  • DadHav
    replied
    Originally posted by Zardox View Post
    I did wind a 5 pole Goldmine motor. However I used heavier gage wire than UFO suggested. Even though I never finished getting the timing set right the motor ran very good and I connected a stock motor from a cordless weed wacker to it as a load and a second generator output. The way I contructed the motor was not very good and the rotor caught and is now locked up. Because of circumstances at this time I have not been able to get back to it yet. What I can say is that compared to the RS motor I had built earlier (dual pentagon) this motor seemed to run a lot cooler and also had a higher return voltage from the output coils. Because of my poor build quality I don't feel this was a good comparison. I do have a few more of these motors and I hope to make a better one when I can get back to it.
    Probably not much help but I do feel that that all north winding does have a great potential.
    Hi Zardox, Sorry to hear about your damaged motor. I hope you're able to repair the one you have or build another for testing. Any information you can add is appreciated by everyone. The more the better. What you think might be unimportant might relate to something you're not noticing but others might.
    John

    Leave a comment:


  • Midaztouch
    replied
    Hi Esesenergy

    Originally posted by esesenergy View Post
    which motor is IDEAL or most efficient for assym winding with NN magnets?
    The magnets are factory setting. Regular north and south.... The COILS are all north per right hand rule. We use all north to keep everyone on the same page.

    3pole or 5 pole 20 pole etc etc? is odd numbers or even number poles more efficient? are poles divisible by 2,3, 4,or 5 better?
    When first started the all north coil winds, there were questions asked just like that. We haven't gotten far enough yet but what I can say is that the timing of the coils to the stators bisectors is crucial. The next round of all north coil winds is with the 4 stator.

    The UFO KIT Part# is 0524021
    The price is still $276.15 USD plus shipping.
    Dyann's direct line 1-440-349-4083-ext#117
    Email: derosad@imperialelectric.com

    We are trying to keep everyone in a tight group for this build. This kit is a 56 pole, 4 stator. Dyann said that Imperial will start shipping the kits in about 5 weeks. We suggest that you buy high speed bearings and Nomex paper. You will need 3-5 kg of 18AGW. It will weigh about 45lbs/19kg. Order now if you want to join in with everyone in September.


    Keep it Clean and Green
    Midaz

    Leave a comment:


  • esesenergy
    replied
    which motor is IDEAL or most efficient for assym winding with NN magnets? 3pole or 5 pole 20 pole etc etc? is odd numbers or even number poles more efficient? are poles divisible by 2,3, 4,or 5 better?

    Leave a comment:


  • Midaztouch
    replied
    @ All

    The A1 Mo-Gen/All North winds are having favorable results and opinions.

    Zardox
    What I can say is that compared to the RS motor I had built earlier (dual pentagon) this motor seemed to run a lot cooler and also had a higher return voltage from the output coils..... Probably not much help but I do feel that that all north winding does have a great potential.
    Zardox, that's enough to support that things are headed in a positive direction.

    I know that there are more replicators that have made the all north motors. It might be a little confusing for setting the timing but that can be discussed. Please speak up by stating your results and opinions. Let's talk about it.
    ..........................................

    John
    Hello Richie, You're a really funny guy but I like your light hearted approach to things. My time is very limited these days. Maybe I'll let you know personally what's going on but I don't actually know how deep I can get into this. I certainly don't want to be the one overlooking tests here and I'm really not familiar with the more sophisticated motors and windings you are working with so I don't really know. Yes, I can understand the disappointment that many must of had on the forum. It's been a long journey and I'm impressed at the fortitude that some have to continue on. It doesn't bring satisfaction to me when I question a test result, there's nothing I'd rather do than have something exciting to agree with. I would be very happy if I could post a refreshing video with a new technology that actually has a real life application. I'd give every bit of credit to UFO because that's where it belongs.
    John, I needed you to see that the A1 Mo-Gen, is the final core product. I wanted you to take another look at this new advanced wind; all north the overlapping at each pole using the right hand rule. I had hoped that this would spark your curiosity enough, to get you to build a 5pole A1 Mo-Gen. Then work your testing magic/voodoo.

    At least our dialogue got Zardox to speak up. I hope many others that have and will build the 5pole A1 Mo-Gen, will discuss their results.

    UFO could have given up after the fail dynamometer testing but he showed his resilience by going back to the basics. I respect and support that. That shows his leadership ability and character. After I OBSESSED/play the devils advocate, over this new winding style for the asymmetric motors. With my limited resources, my conclusions led me to believe that the A1 Mo-Gen is a superior technology compared to what's available off-the-shelf... For progress, this has to be a two-way scientific conversation.

    Everyone can see I want things to be serious and lighthearted at the same time. I received an email the other day and they wrote, "You act like you're the CEO of this technology."... Well, I did own a small-medium company. I learnt that it's very important to be very personable and support your team as much as possible. Your team can make you look like a star or push you off of the edge... At this point, I'm just trying my best to help.

    Keep it Clean and Green
    Midaz

    Leave a comment:


  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    No time right now...

    Originally posted by DadHav View Post
    Hi, never mind about RS wind information, it's all right at the beginning of UFO's video right? 8 turns of #26 per leg set, both leg sets wound in the same direction this time. I would sure like more turns but will do the same.
    J
    Hello John,

    Don't have much time now to join in this chat...but the latest videos are based on 12Turns, same gauge (26 awg), same config. as shown on video below:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSs2beNfAP8

    I have made them in many different gauge spec's...same config as shown though.

    Cheers


    Ufopolitics

    Leave a comment:


  • DadHav
    replied
    Hi, never mind about RS wind information, it's all right at the beginning of UFO's video right? 8 turns of #26 per leg set, both leg sets wound in the same direction this time. I would sure like more turns but will do the same.
    J

    Leave a comment:


  • DadHav
    replied
    Originally posted by Midaztouch View Post
    John,
    I think your opinion is needed at this point. I personally think, you ask the tuff questions and present testing parameters that are fair.

    When we had bad motor testing results on the dynamometer with the Imperial 56pole = NO GO(NG)! That was a huge blow! We had to start all over again from the 3pole. All of the original RS north/south asymmetric 5pole replicators have been silent. So, many replicators confidence must of went down the drain. So, UFO is the only one posting results... Major humble pie

    For me the North/South asymmetric motor was the logical first step and was necessary. It worked but its not for Asymmetric motors! Some of the standard parameters for symmetric motors work but they're not ideal for asymmetric motors. So, the next logical and the only step left is all north. Let's keep this as simple as possible but it is just another electric motor/generator .. But it's all part of development.

    UFO you owe it to the readers, past replicators and me to adhere to John's testing requests. John has some validity in his thought process. I think its fair. Plus, we have weeks before the Imperial kits start to arrive.

    Everyone put your egos to the side and Let's get back to the basics and have some fun, together.

    In the sprit of fun, I propose a bet....

    If the symmetric motor wins, my team will post " Dadhav/John is the best CHEIF Electrical Engineer in the World!" for all to see on this thread.

    If we win, John, you have to replicate all of our experiments and post your results here... And all credit goes to UFO on your YouTube channel!

    Rule question for the bet:
    1.)Since the A1 Mo-Gen can recycle energy, can we use that power also?
    2.)Can we use super caps?
    3.)Other rules to be added???
    4.)Amendments to the bet?
    5.)Anyone else wants part of this bet?

    John and UFO Engineering/UFO, do we have a bet!?

    The stakes are high! Will the A1 Mo-Gen win or do Symmetric motors still reigns supreme!?


    Keep it Clean and Green
    Midaz
    Hello Richie, You're a really funny guy but I like your light hearted approach to things. My time is very limited these days. Maybe I'll let you know personally what's going on but I don't actually know how deep I can get into this. I certainly don't want to be the one overlooking tests here and I'm really not familiar with the more sophisticated motors and windings you are working with so I don't really know. Yes, I can understand the disappointment that many must of had on the forum. It's been a long journey and I'm impressed at the fortitude that some have to continue on. It doesn't bring satisfaction to me when I question a test result, there's nothing I'd rather do than have something exciting to agree with. I would be very happy if I could post a refreshing video with a new technology that actually has a real life application. I'd give every bit of credit to UFO because that's where it belongs. My channel has near 7 million views now and the UFO Motor test is actually a very popular video. It would do both of us good if I could do a part 2 with a new look at the motor and some promising results. I feel a need to pursue and understand why there was a 3 amp current reading and low battery drain in UFO's video. If someone want's to remind me of where the most accurate drawing is that represents the motor tested in the video, I might rewind my motor and do some tests. What tests? First I'd test the batteries and cycle them a few times to determine their maximum capacity. If I had the same results as UFO I'd be very happy and surprised. What I was interested in was the way the cap charged for one. The cap was much smaller than the super cap so it charged to near the output rather quickly but then it climbed slowly after that. Here's a test old Bedini guys, why is that? You know. The cap charges from the standard generator effect of the coils but then continues to climb because there is radiant present right? Hmm, well if the batteries are actually accepting a back charge the results might be the same also. What's missing? Some scope shots. I'd try an analog meter in the circuit instead of the clamp meter. If tests where still the same I would take the amp meter out and put a 1 ohm precision resistor in it's place. If there really some sort of energy, voltage or current going in both directions there we would need to see it if we could. Without knowing what it is it's really hard to improve on the effect. With a scope over the 1 ohm resistor you can easily check the current, voltage and possibly get a look at the characteristics of the run / charge cycle. The scope might just show what you would expect to see regarding the energy required to drive the motor but maybe there just might be a spike or something in the opposite polarity. Another good test would be to put a very sensitive sniffer coil on the battery pack itself. Maybe there's a ringing or something else to take note of. Of course, as I mentioned, the test in the video looks like it would be easy to compare some sort of practical results against the stock motor. Is the KV. Strike that is the RPM about the same as the stock motor when ran at the same voltage? or is it still a much higher RPM motor?
    Whoa, a contest? Are you crazy? You want to put UFO and Old DadHav in that position? Remember Dad can demonstrate a motor that goes down in current draw when you connect a bulb to the parallel generator coil that's in the same motor. Just saying. I'll tell you though, comparing the watts from the 3 amp current draw against the watts, if you had the number, of the drain at the source might show heavy overunity no? I don't know if I'd take a bet if I felt confident everything was exactly as shown in the video. I'm not sure what you're talking about on the new motors but do you have several, say 4, sets of generator coils on the same armature? Won't each of these coils also run the motor like the little RS motor with two windings? Do you expect you can get the same result as in UFO's video from each of these coil sets?
    You give me too much credit Richie, especially as it pertains to my career. Maybe I'll give you the whole story some time. My experience was mostly related to the manufacturing of injection molds, molded parts and downstream automation. You know mold design, CNC programing, designing computerized parts handling machines etc. and really doesn't apply much here.

    Leave a comment:


  • iankoglin
    replied
    Originally posted by Zardox View Post
    I did wind a 5 pole Goldmine motor. However I used heavier gage wire than UFO suggested. Even though I never finished getting the timing set right the motor ran very good and I connected a stock motor from a cordless weed wacker to it as a load and a second generator output. The way I contructed the motor was not very good and the rotor caught and is now locked up. Because of circumstances at this time I have not been able to get back to it yet. What I can say is that compared to the RS motor I had built earlier (dual pentagon) this motor seemed to run a lot cooler and also had a higher return voltage from the output coils. Because of my poor build quality I don't feel this was a good comparison. I do have a few more of these motors and I hope to make a better one when I can get back to it.
    Probably not much help but I do feel that that all north winding does have a great potential.
    G'day Zardox
    Why did it lock up?
    Even if you have the wire wound very tight if you do not have hedges secured the wire can move even just a little bit out of the slot and jam the rotor
    This is the reason to take time and wind each wind very tight you need to pull tight at every half turn

    I hope this is of some help
    Kindest Regards

    Leave a comment:


  • Zardox
    replied
    For John

    I did wind a 5 pole Goldmine motor. However I used heavier gage wire than UFO suggested. Even though I never finished getting the timing set right the motor ran very good and I connected a stock motor from a cordless weed wacker to it as a load and a second generator output. The way I contructed the motor was not very good and the rotor caught and is now locked up. Because of circumstances at this time I have not been able to get back to it yet. What I can say is that compared to the RS motor I had built earlier (dual pentagon) this motor seemed to run a lot cooler and also had a higher return voltage from the output coils. Because of my poor build quality I don't feel this was a good comparison. I do have a few more of these motors and I hope to make a better one when I can get back to it.
    Probably not much help but I do feel that that all north winding does have a great potential.

    Leave a comment:


  • Midaztouch
    replied
    Originally posted by DadHav View Post
    Richie, You invited me to look at a few videos and render an opinion on how accurately the claims matched the material in the video, at least that's what I thought was going on. What you are talking about above is way beyond that request and is still in a world of speculation and lack of testing as far as I'm concerned. I'll just take a small bite of the pie and try to finish what I started, so I have to say. UFO is very smart and just sitting back in my opinion to see what I would have to say about one particular video.

    The video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4fJEf_WRHg
    Did get my attention. First let me tell you what looked like it could be ordinary: When you charge a battery or a capacitor for that matter the charge side experiences a heavy load until the battery or cap starts to charge and eventually toward the end of the charge the load is almost off the source. This easily explains why when you first connect the capacitor that the source voltage drops very low. As the capacitor starts to charge the load decreases and the the motor increases in speed. At this time the source battery has less of a load to support so it starts to recover and go back toward what it's resting voltage was. This all looks like everything is regenerating and recharging but it's just something that can be done, once again, without a motor at all.

    Now sit down UFO this is where I'll give in a little bit because I've been 100 percent honest all my life. As the capacitor reaches the end of the charge and looks like it's stabilizing the battery also should settle down to what the running requirements are for the little motor. It looked like the batteries where still recovering more than what I would have expected at that point. So could this what we are seeing as the natural recovery of the batteries is actually more like what you are trying to convince us of? Hmm, don't know for sure. Based on the amp reading from your clamp meter I would have to say something isn't right or something is worth further investigation. I tried duplicating the test with the old motor and of course there was no comparison. My battery recovery looked good but get this because I think it's important. When I put the batteries back on the charger I had used 418 ma of their capacity to do one cycle charge of the capacitor that only took about 5 minutes. OK with that being said, I wouldn't be able to dispute what you did in the test unless I rewound my motor and tried the same experiment. A few summary thoughts on this though would be none of the skeptical viewers will believe the content of the video unless you replace the clamp meter with an analog meter. Also a resting voltage is never an accurate measurement of how efficient a test is. Something more believable is to charge the batteries to full to know what the total capacity is then charge them to full again after the experiment and record how many ma it took to fill them back up. So I'm saying there is a large mismatch of readings in the video. Not saying that's bad, but good if you can validate the results. As it looks the motor is running efficiently on just one of the two coil sets, am I wrong about that? Does the effect you demonstrate require the capacitor on the generator side of the motor? If so that's actually good in my opinion. The results of this test indicates you could put this motor in a simple comparative test against a stock motor. Proof of the pudding would be to outperform the stock motor with a simple mechanical test that didn't require instruments.

    How about two mini Nese's, one with the stock motor and one with the north motor. let them run in a circle and see who can go further. It's just my opinion but after a test video as profound as you just posted, something just as profound as a real life demonstration should follow. The motor and setup is even simpler than a standard R/C car or plane. Show us what you can do. Maybe I can put a larger version in the confetti plane.

    Hasn't anyone on the forum rewound their RS motor to confirm these findings?
    John
    John,
    I think your opinion is needed at this point. I personally think, you ask the tuff questions and present testing parameters that are fair.

    When we had bad motor testing results on the dynamometer with the Imperial 56pole = NO GO(NG)! That was a huge blow! We had to start all over again from the 3pole. All of the original RS north/south asymmetric 5pole replicators have been silent. So, many replicators confidence must of went down the drain. So, UFO is the only one posting results... Major humble pie

    For me the North/South asymmetric motor was the logical first step and was necessary. It worked but its not for Asymmetric motors! Some of the standard parameters for symmetric motors work but they're not ideal for asymmetric motors. So, the next logical and the only step left is all north. Let's keep this as simple as possible but it is just another electric motor/generator .. But it's all part of development.

    UFO you owe it to the readers, past replicators and me to adhere to John's testing requests. John has some validity in his thought process. I think its fair. Plus, we have weeks before the Imperial kits start to arrive.

    Everyone put your egos to the side and Let's get back to the basics and have some fun, together.

    In the sprit of fun, I propose a bet....

    If the symmetric motor wins, my team will post " Dadhav/John is the best CHEIF Electrical Engineer in the World!" for all to see on this thread.

    If we win, John, you have to replicate all of our experiments and post your results here... And all credit goes to UFO on your YouTube channel!

    Rule question for the bet:
    1.)Since the A1 Mo-Gen can recycle energy, can we use that power also?
    2.)Can we use super caps?
    3.)Other rules to be added???
    4.)Amendments to the bet?
    5.)Anyone else wants part of this bet?

    John and UFO Engineering/UFO, do we have a bet!?

    The stakes are high! Will the A1 Mo-Gen win or do Symmetric motors still reigns supreme!?


    Keep it Clean and Green
    Midaz
    Last edited by Midaztouch; 07-28-2014, 02:03 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • DadHav
    replied
    Originally posted by Midaztouch View Post
    John,

    The RS 5pole was just a gimme, it's a precursor for what's in store for future testing. *Personally, I think there is some more meat on that bone for testing...

    We are concerned with the
    1.) lighting of lights
    2.) charging a capacitor banks
    3.) strong mechanical output
    with the 4 stator A1 Mo-Gen as separate entities, at the same time.

    The 5pole A1 Mo-Gen test was just to show what it can do. Leaving you with speculation with what a 4 stator with 1 input and 3 outputs can possibly do.

    We are saying that the Generator Action will assist the rotation of the A1 Mo-Gen. Creating more RPMs & torque and gives the capability of charging back the supply. Sounds impossible but this is what we are saying!

    The capacitors are to receive the generator charge, just like in regenerative braking and give strong amperes under load with minimum voltage drop. Giving you superior performance.

    Keep it Clean and Green
    Midaz
    Richie, You invited me to look at a few videos and render an opinion on how accurately the claims matched the material in the video, at least that's what I thought was going on. What you are talking about above is way beyond that request and is still in a world of speculation and lack of testing as far as I'm concerned. I'll just take a small bite of the pie and try to finish what I started, so I have to say. UFO is very smart and just sitting back in my opinion to see what I would have to say about one particular video. The video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4fJEf_WRHg
    Did get my attention. First let me tell you what looked like it could be ordinary: When you charge a battery or a capacitor for that matter the charge side experiences a heavy load until the battery or cap starts to charge and eventually toward the end of the charge the load is almost off the source. This easily explains why when you first connect the capacitor that the source voltage drops very low. As the capacitor starts to charge the load decreases and the the motor increases in speed. At this time the source battery has less of a load to support so it starts to recover and go back toward what it's resting voltage was. This all looks like everything is regenerating and recharging but it's just something that can be done, once again, without a motor at all. Now sit down UFO this is where I'll give in a little bit because I've been 100 percent honest all my life. As the capacitor reaches the end of the charge and looks like it's stabilizing the battery also should settle down to what the running requirements are for the little motor. It looked like the batteries where still recovering more than what I would have expected at that point. So could this what we are seeing as the natural recovery of the batteries is actually more like what you are trying to convince us of? Hmm, don't know for sure. Based on the amp reading from your clamp meter I would have to say something isn't right or something is worth further investigation. I tried duplicating the test with the old motor and of course there was no comparison. My battery recovery looked good but get this because I think it's important. When I put the batteries back on the charger I had used 418 ma of their capacity to do one cycle charge of the capacitor that only took about 5 minutes. OK with that being said, I wouldn't be able to dispute what you did in the test unless I rewound my motor and tried the same experiment. A few summary thoughts on this though would be none of the skeptical viewers will believe the content of the video unless you replace the clamp meter with an analog meter. Also a resting voltage is never an accurate measurement of how efficient a test is. Something more believable is to charge the batteries to full to know what the total capacity is then charge them to full again after the experiment and record how many ma it took to fill them back up. So I'm saying there is a large mismatch of readings in the video. Not saying that's bad, but good if you can validate the results. As it looks the motor is running efficiently on just one of the two coil sets, am I wrong about that? Does the effect you demonstrate require the capacitor on the generator side of the motor? If so that's actually good in my opinion. The results of this test indicates you could put this motor in a simple comparative test against a stock motor. Proof of the pudding would be to outperform the stock motor with a simple mechanical test that didn't require instruments. How about two mini Nese's, one with the stock motor and one with the north motor. let them run in a circle and see who can go further. It's just my opinion but after a test video as profound as you just posted, something just as profound as a real life demonstration should follow. The motor and setup is even simpler than a standard R/C car or plane. Show us what you can do. Maybe I can put a larger version in the confetti plane.
    Hasn't anyone on the forum rewound their RS motor to confirm these findings?
    John

    Leave a comment:


  • Midaztouch
    replied
    Originally posted by DadHav View Post
    Richie, I would just like to address a few things that pertain to the last three videos before anything else. I think one was resolved and for my own experience I'd like to try some things regarding the other two. You don't have to bother anyone to much about a diagram just a simple yes or no to my interpretation is OK. My observation is the bulb was lit with a path from the battery through one of the coils through the filament and then back to the battery. That leaves me with not knowing how anything else is effecting the demonstration as it pertains to just the bulb. I think lighting the bulb is not as important as the motor increase in speed. I have a theory but will hold off until I know I saw the connections right. Of course if people think the bulb is being lit from the generator of the motor then that's a different story. By the way I did use 600 ma of light bulbs and tested the ns rs motor. I had instances that the voltage went above base line and most below. I have to look at what UFO's video looked like at that time of test, but I might have had similar.
    John
    John,

    The RS 5pole was just a gimme, it's a precursor for what's in store for future testing. *Personally, I think there is some more meat on that bone for testing...

    We are concerned with the
    1.) lighting of lights
    2.) charging a capacitor banks
    3.) strong mechanical output
    with the 4 stator A1 Mo-Gen as separate entities, at the same time.

    The 5pole A1 Mo-Gen test was just to show what it can do. Leaving you with speculations on what a 4 stator with 1 input and 3 outputs can possibly do.

    We are saying that the Generator Action will assist the rotation of the A1 Mo-Gen. Creating more RPMs & torque and gives the capability of charging back the supply. Sounds impossible but this is what we are saying!

    The capacitors are to receive the generator charge, just like in regenerative braking and give strong amperes under load with minimum voltage drop. They enhance performance and help optimize efficiency.

    Keep it Clean and Green
    Midaz
    Last edited by Midaztouch; 07-27-2014, 10:40 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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