My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Ufopolitics]

UFO,
Hey the old delco generator has been a challenge and I got it assembled today.

The brush sets, one at each end, is from the hitachi started generator. The case and armature is delco remy. The field coils and shoes are from 1918 Ford Model T. But it does run and has generator output. Bad on amp draw, around 35 amps!!

Yes, I have a LOT of tweaking to do.

I hope I have it wired correctly. If anyone could tell me the page or post number that shows the circuit of the four stator machines.

Thanks for the help and listening,
wantomake

Hey Wantomake,

Great, it runs...

Yes, there is something wrong...it should not draw that much.

Check separate Stators Amp draw when connecting it to source without firing brushes ..that way you will know if it is rotor or stators, or both...and how much goes to which...

Mechanical Drag is a killer, it will rise your amp draw.

Also timing it too close to South Stators (attract) would tend to get rotor jammed, stiff while running...sometimes not easily noticeable, but it will also rise amp draw. So make sure to fire as close as possible to North Stators center or bisectors.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

That is exactly what I am seeing on my induction motors I am trying to convert.



Well I might like to convert this Bodine I found, 1/20th HP for a demo/test project. Here its is disassembled. Its a single phase motor.

I think the stators have 4 coils, which would mean I put 4 rows of magnets on the rotor?

I'd like it to be an AC generator, so pic 4 is trying to illustrate putting the magnets in as you describe for an AC. So going around the rotor you would have N-N-S-S. This is from the youtube video AC INDUCTION MOTOR CONVERSION TO AC PERMANENT MAGNET GENERATOR I think he made a mistake in the title because he says he is going to use it to charge batteries,and calls it an alternator when he is done and uses your N-S-N-S magnet arrangement.

Pic 2 is my rotor, about 1 3/4" long. I think I could squeeze 2 1/2" magnets in a row.

More magnets, more power?



The rpm is 1725 as a motor. Will it get 110v at that rpm as a generator or just 60cycles/sec?

Hello Sam,

I watched the video...nice music...

I see you are copying this guys by inserting round magnets in rotor drum...

Short Cylinder magnets as exciters , smaller than the Fields Cores will NOT deliver a full power output as those SQUARE Concave Cores-Coils would require to get induced fully .

There need to be MATCHING GEOMETRIES between Exciter Fields and Induced Fields. The advantage of using Neo's is that they have a wider and stronger magnetic field than a regular ceramic magnet.

Actually this guy is exciting only like a Mid Center "Belt" off the Stator Fields area...and loosing all the rest, plus all the missing volume from a round magnet to a rectangular or square area.

You should try to get first, just a couple or four... concave magnets from old motors...I believe you should have a few left over......and match magnets arcs area to match inner stator coils convex area as well as rotor circumference...then it will tell you if you could use two or four.

When I load a post on my Faraday Thread today...you will see what I mean...

UFO, would your new design still use magnets in the rotor on a Ind. motor conversion to a generator then, just rewinding the stators?


TIA Ufo

PS: If I get 8 neo's in the rotor, 1/2" x 1/2", they would cost me almost as much as the motor!

No "conversions from" in new design...it is all different, a new structure, a new concept, must be built from scratch...magnets?...yes, you could use some of your ceramic concave magnets, so start saving and collecting them...


And...it is not about... more magnets, more power, friend...it is about getting the right dimension and strength type of magnets, set at the right positioning.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[sampojo]

Induction motor Conversion to AC Generator

Hello Sam,

The success of an Induction Motor converted into Generator depends basically on the Steel Rotor magnetic Reminiscence, but not only that attribute,...but how magnetic polarity is 'distributed' related to the existing windings in what would be now the "Induced Fields".

Normally the magnetic reminiscence is not strong enough to stand higher loads at higher RPM's...then it drops down.

In a typical Generator Head the magnetic reminiscence is just used as a STARTER low power induction TRANSFER, to PRIME the "Network" between spinning Stator Fields and Static Exciter Fields through a running Capacitor. After a few minutes of running time, the Exciters become stronger and keep gaining magnetic strength to stand higher loads, then magnetic reminiscence is NOT needed anymore.

Unfortunately, You do not have those "evolving" Exciting Circuits on a typical Induction Motor, so it is just dependable upon magnetic residual that it is NOT getting stronger, but weaker as you load it.

That is exactly what I am seeing on my induction motors I am trying to convert.

You could add magnets at Rotor, but first You have to count how many poles comprehend each overlapped coil, to know the Arc Size (Width) of the magnets you will need, the height is given by the rotor vertical measure. This arc value is essential to see how many magnets rotor could take, Two or Four...Four Magnets require less speed than Two Rotary Stators as magnets.

Some Induction Motors (1 Phase) have many coil layers as they are different speeds, and they are distributed differently at poles wrapping...so make sure to identify which is which...and where is the start and end of each speed (hot and neutral wires).

If you set at rotor Two Norths...or Two South separated at 180º...then you would have DC.

If you set a North and a South at each end (180º) then it would be AC.

Still, my friend...we are all dealing here with "Toxic" Generators given they are ALL, based on Symmetrical Induction...face to face, mirrored B Fields...Encountering Frontal and opposed Vectors of the Inducer/Exciters and Induced Fields...so, even if you get a "State of the Art" Brushless Meccalte Generator...when it is time to disburse power to a High Load...they get stiff...very hard to turn, requiring-demanding super strong power from prime mover...this the "Game" we are all have been playing here for the last 130 plus years.

I have been working on this for a while now...I found exactly where is the "essence" of this "details" that would allow Us all to UNDERSTAND first...then to design better generators, but I would have to go back to my Faraday Thread...to explain that...then open a new thread where We will be constructing this completely different designed Machines.

It would be soon...stay tuned.


Regards


Ufopolitics

Well I might like to convert this Bodine I found, 1/20th HP for a demo/test project. Here its is disassembled. Its a single phase motor.

I think the stators have 4 coils, which would mean I put 4 rows of magnets on the rotor?

I'd like it to be an AC generator, so pic 4 is trying to illustrate putting the magnets in as you describe for an AC. So going around the rotor you would have N-N-S-S. This is from the youtube video AC INDUCTION MOTOR CONVERSION TO AC PERMANENT MAGNET GENERATOR I think he made a mistake in the title because he says he is going to use it to charge batteries,and calls it an alternator when he is done and uses your N-S-N-S magnet arrangement.

Pic 2 is my rotor, about 1 3/4" long. I think I could squeeze 2 1/2" magnets in a row.

More magnets, more power?



The rpm is 1725 as a motor. Will it get 110v at that rpm as a generator or just 60cycles/sec?

UFO, would your new design still use magnets in the rotor on a Ind. motor conversion to a generator then, just rewinding the stators?


TIA Ufo

PS: If I get 8 neo's in the rotor, 1/2" x 1/2", they would cost me almost as much as the motor!

[wantomake]

It does work

UFO,
Hey the old delco generator has been a challenge and I got it assembled today.

The brush sets, one at each end, is from the hitachi started generator. The case and armature is delco remy. The field coils and shoes are from 1918 Ford Model T. But it does run and has generator output. Bad on amp draw, around 35 amps!!

Yes, I have a LOT of tweaking to do.

I hope I have it wired correctly. If anyone could tell me the page or post number that shows the circuit of the four stator machines.

Thanks for the help and listening,
wantomake

[Midaztouch]

Esesenergy,

We all have to wait and see the range and performance of our handmade $400 A1 Mo-Gen during usage in an EV. If it's not better then an off the shelf AMP Monster of comparable size, then come back here and talk your talk.

Your impatience have been noted but not needed at this time. Relax!

Keep it Clean and Green
Midac

[prochiro]

esesenergy

You know what you and several others remind me of? When a large group of people get together, all like mind, happy with life and what they are doing, someone comes in and tries to tell them how bad life and there efforts are. The fact is, that person is actually telling how he sees life and is miserable with it, not being able to find the life he wants so much. I feel sorry for you and those like you.
Actually, if you looked thru this forum, you will see that threads are started, many people making copies and then adding to the advances in that thread. Most threads live just a few months and go dead. Others plod along but where have they gotten to at this point........I do not see anyone making a house full of power starting with no energy. Even those who have been able to loop back to primary source have vary limited additional run time. Those here on UFO's threads are free to work on other threads but choose not to as we are where we see the most potential. The money we choose to spend is no different than I see spent in many other threads on machining and such.

Do not worry about us as it sounds that you already have enough problems of your own.

Prochiro

[Ufopolitics]

What are U talking about?

decades of working on your assym motors and you still cant close the loop? what will be your excuse when the all north setup doesnt work? are you going to reimburse everyone for their time after crying to people to rewind their motors to your new specs over n over? why dont you finish a motor n have it third party validated THEN CRY

What is your frustration now Eses?

Decades?...Decades exposing My Machines?...how do you count time?

Better ask all the ones that have replicated my motors, EVEN THE N-S PAIRS...and see what would they say...

Your problem is simply that you are not capable of building even a Radio Shack 3.99 USD Little Motor...main reason why you are the one always crying for people to sell them to you...


Sorry about that guy!

[esesenergy]

decades of working on your assym motors and you still cant close the loop? what will be your excuse when the all north setup doesnt work? are you going to reimburse everyone for their time after crying to people to rewind their motors to your new specs over n over? why dont you finish a motor n have it third party validated THEN CRY

[Ufopolitics]

Induction Motors to Generators...

How did Ray Bradbury put it "Something wicked this way comes..."

Ufo, thanks for the info on the gen head, time to go diving & digging.... Need that kit!!!

I've been trying to get an induction motor to work as generator on a smaller scale to test some unipolar winding asym motor output. I could not get much out of a 1/40hp motor, lose its power of about 40v without getting to its suposed 110v rpm as a motor. my little GM unipolar asym motor drove a 1/8 hp motor up to about 70v once, but seems a little short on power. That little motor is a worker though. Can't figure out how much caps to use or if I have enough on hand for what it needs. When you overdrive them or overload them, they lose the magnetic fields and just drop off line. A lot of people on youtube are putting magnets into AC induction motor rotor. Not sure if they generate variable AC voltage, or whether they are now DC alternators. I'd like to get about a couple-three amps at 110v out of the generator.

Hello Sam,

The success of an Induction Motor converted into Generator depends basically on the Steel Rotor magnetic Reminiscence, but not only that attribute,...but how magnetic polarity is 'distributed' related to the existing windings in what would be now the "Induced Fields".

Normally the magnetic reminiscence is not strong enough to stand higher loads at higher RPM's...then it drops down.

In a typical Generator Head the magnetic reminiscence is just used as a STARTER low power induction TRANSFER, to PRIME the "Network" between spinning Stator Fields and Static Exciter Fields through a running Capacitor. After a few minutes of running time, the Exciters become stronger and keep gaining magnetic strength to stand higher loads, then magnetic reminiscence is NOT needed anymore.

Unfortunately, You do not have those "evolving" Exciting Circuits on a typical Induction Motor, so it is just dependable upon magnetic residual that it is NOT getting stronger, but weaker as you load it.

You could add magnets at Rotor, but first You have to count how many poles comprehend each overlapped coil, to know the Arc Size (Width) of the magnets you will need, the height is given by the rotor vertical measure. This arc value is essential to see how many magnets rotor could take, Two or Four...Four Magnets require less speed than Two Rotary Stators as magnets.

Some Induction Motors (1 Phase) have many coil layers as they are different speeds, and they are distributed differently at poles wrapping...so make sure to identify which is which...and where is the start and end of each speed (hot and neutral wires).

Ufo, do you know if its still an AC generator when you drop neo's into an induction motor rotor?

PS, just picked up a nice 1/20 hp Imotor, see how that works...

If you set at rotor Two Norths...or Two South separated at 180º...then you would have DC.

If you set a North and a South at each end (180º) then it would be AC.

Still, my friend...we are all dealing here with "Toxic" Generators given they are ALL, based on Symmetrical Induction...face to face, mirrored B Fields...Encountering Frontal and opposed Vectors of the Inducer/Exciters and Induced Fields...so, even if you get a "State of the Art" Brushless Meccalte Generator...when it is time to disburse power to a High Load...they get stiff...very hard to turn, requiring-demanding super strong power from prime mover...this the "Game" we are all have been playing here for the last 130 plus years.

I have been working on this for a while now...I found exactly where is the "essence" of this "details" that would allow Us all to UNDERSTAND first...then to design better generators, but I would have to go back to my Faraday Thread...to explain that...then open a new thread where We will be constructing this completely different designed Machines.

It would be soon...stay tuned.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[sampojo]

Uh-oh Ufo got a new ufo motor!

How did Ray Bradbury put it "Something wicked this way comes..."

Ufo, thanks for the info on the gen head, time to go diving & digging.... Need that kit!!!

I've been trying to get an induction motor to work as generator on a smaller scale to test some unipolar winding asym motor output. I could not get much out of a 1/40hp motor, lose its power of about 40v without getting to its suposed 110v rpm as a motor. my little GM unipolar asym motor drove a 1/8 hp motor up to about 70v once, but seems a little short on power. That little motor is a worker though. Can't figure out how much caps to use or if I have enough on hand for what it needs. When you overdrive them or overload them, they lose the magnetic fields and just drop off line. A lot of people on youtube are putting magnets into AC induction motor rotor. Not sure if they generate variable AC voltage, or whether they are now DC alternators. I'd like to get about a couple-three amps at 110v out of the generator.

Ufo, do you know if its still an AC generator when you drop neo's into an induction motor rotor?

PS, just picked up a nice 1/20 hp Imotor, see how that works...

[wantomake]

Eyes on the sky

UFO,
That's a great looking machine!!

Hope the next flying saucer I see is yours. Been chasing ufos for long time now and this one is about to move away.

Do want to buy one in near future, but need to finish this old delco first.

My eyes on the sky and hands on the work bench,
wantomake

[Midaztouch]

UFO

I'm glad you got your new UFO Kit! You must have felt like a kid on Christmas morning! September looks to be an exciting month!

Close up pics of the commutators with wiring would be nice. Why are they using wiring on the comms now?

Let the GAMES begin!

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[Ufopolitics]

Imperial Ufo Rotor Kit arrived...

Hello Guys,

For all the Imperial Owners, interested in building the All North set up...the UFO ROTOR KIT Commutators arrived by now (they were on back order as I previously posted)...and I've got mines as well as a brand new shaft-rotor...as shown below...

[IMG][/IMG]

Note:

1-Commutators come with the "pre-winded" wiring for the Symmetrical design...and it must be removed before assembling/pressing it onto shaft.
2-Do not expect that Commutators will slide in easily by just sanding it with a 400 grit paper...they need to be worked on, but shaft comes already with the splines built in on both ends...thanks that this rotor have a cooling fan at back end...grreat.

@Dana (Prochiro) call Dyann...but please, don't you dare to tell her I told you that commutators arrived...


So, Guys...let's Rock and Roll!!


Regards


Ufopolitics

[prochiro]

Oh, I see what you have now. I found a broken generator at a rental place and cut the back end of the engine out where that shaft runs thru, it has the bearing and all in it and just bolted the shaft in the motor and mounted the cut out plate with bearing onto the fixture. It worked well also.
Dana

[Ufopolitics]

Mecc Alte Shaft...

does not have a shaft protruding but rather a hole to accept the standard shaft from a gas engine I think. I remember Ufo holding the component he made or bought to adapt this style of gen head.

Am I off-base?

thanks

Hello Sampojo,

You are right friend, below is the video where I made the shaft...

MECC ALTE SYMMETRIC GENERATOR HEAD ADAPT

However, after all this work I believe Machine Alive found out they sell a 'Front Mount Head Kit'...that includes the whole thing, including a new face plate...

It is written somewhere here...back when We were doing this tests...a good hint is to look up for the dates on video(s), then search here by those dates posts.

Regards


Ufopolitics