My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[Midaztouch]

Hello to All,

Guys, You know me by now...and I would not "sacrifice" all I have displayed here, Criticize my own work rendered here for about two years...unless I will be giving you ALL something MUCH better in Quality, Quantity and Performance...Something "beyond"...

And what really bothers me...is that I (and We all) had it all this time right in front of me (and in front of You too Guys)...but I (or we all) could not see it!!

Remember this little Motor?...My First exposed here because of being made out of Three Poles?

[IMG][/IMG]

You could go back on this Thread and look how many times I mentioned about the "greatness" of this type of little Machine.

Then I jumped to this one...The Five Poles Radio Shack:

[IMG][/IMG]

What MAIN, BIG TIME difference You guys see right in front of our noses...besides the obvious Pole Number of 3 and 5?

Basically am referring to Rotor windings difference...

Simple...the Three Poles does NOT have North-South Pairs rotating within same SPACE RING...They are ALL North Poles...or could be ALL South if we reverse the Input.

When they are all North...Their related South poles are ALL Projecting towards shaft...and viceversa...

The point is...NEVER an opposite Pole will take the SPACE of the other...so ALL NORTHS will ALWAYS be rotating while projecting their fields OUTWARDS...while ALL Souths would be projecting field INWARDS towards shaft...

The Five Pole...or any of the following Higher Poles Models repeat the same attributes the Three Poles had.

Why the difference? ...Does it makes that much of a change?

YES!!

By rotating same polarity at Interacting ends (Eg All Norths)...it takes very little to "enhance" (refill) again the Solid North at times to be fired...no South or reverse flux generated within Steel Cores, and that acts like a transformer here, where all flux travels through and collides every time each opposite pole takes the SPATIAL Positioning of the previous opposite one...

[IMG][/IMG]

Something "similar" to this 3D Diagram...but with the South at center of Cylinder, as also comprehending shaft.

Whenever We use a South next to a North (Symmetry does it at all times...and so we also did except in the Three poles) we get the example below:

[IMG][/IMG]

And My way to know for sure was pretty simple:

Two RS Motors, Five Poles...One, like the Typical P5 shown on above diagram...using EXACTLY SAME awg and number of turns...I wound a Five Poles with ALL NORTH Poles at rotor...that's it.

[IMG][/IMG]

No more Red Lines...or Yellow or Orange...all BLUE or Pale Blues meaning at Motor Stage...vivid dark Blues are being fired...while lighter blues are off the brushes...Then All Greens shades are at Generator Ends...

And of course...using a PSU...Same Input as V & A...plus measuring all parameters like output, RPM's, Torque...plus listening to the smoothest drive ever...sweeet

This type of Homopolar or Unipolar Rotors...can only be achieved by taking the Asymmetries we had before...to an even more radical asymmetry... my friends...

I know it may sound weird to many...but it is the GOD Honest truth Guys.

Well...am pretty sure many of you...with your experience by now at winding...could do this little machine in very short time...trust me is worth it... but please, do not take apart the original P5...so could be compared.


Regards to All


Ufopolitics

Ufo,

I asked questions about this statement before but they weren't answered...

3pole has three separate Uni-Polar Coil. It's focused on repulsion, attraction is secondary. Plus you got max turns.... 5pole has Uni-Polar Coil "Pairs". Paris focuses in on attraction and repulsion. Attraction takes coil turns away from repulsion. Attraction is weak?!

Why didn't the 5pole have five separate Uni-Polar coil, just like the 3Pole? Why did you make pairs? How is the gen action affected?


Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[HuntingRoss]

After much re-engineering and rebuilding. I introduce Beast #3.

No middle gap in the armature, 11 turns 3 poles per coil, 3 coils per group, 12 groups. This is salvaged wire from the 12 turn Beast #1 which built #2 with 9 turns...so I'm losing length each time !!

From above -

A 10v PSU torque test between OEM and Beast #2.

OEM. 0.655kg @ 100mm. Stall amps 9.6
Beast #2. 0.200kg @ 100mm. Stall amps 8.3

Todays results -
10.34v PSU no load
10.21v @ 1.60A @ 3210 rpm with 8.45v out
0.220kg @ 100mm. Stall amps 9.0.

The only thing that would distinguish this build from other replications is I have the stators from both original motors welded back to back.

To remove that anomaly I would have to either remove one set of magnets from the build or turn them around to be front to back and thereby eliminating the repulsion force in the middle.

I need to ponder how to achieve that.

mark

[Midaztouch]

Mark,

Thank you for your effort... Just wire the upper section for now. Your beast still has two comms. Let's see if that give you better results

Are you understanding the time better?

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[HuntingRoss]

Thank you for the encouragement gentlemen.

Once again in the interests of science..."I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." Thomas A Edison.

After the last tests to demonstrate relative torque between 3 motors. It seemed apparent that something was amiss with the 'beast'. On reflection the main difference with other reported motors was the middle gap between laminations.

Before I abandon this motor, I hatched a plan to rewind in a way that I thought would strengthen the field around the upper and lower laminations respectively.

I completed the build late last night and tested it just a short while earlier.

A 10v PSU torque test between OEM and Beast #2.

OEM. 0.655kg @ 100mm. Stall amps 9.6
Beast #2. 0.200kg @ 100mm. Stall amps 8.3

So my nifty idea didn't work.

The images below shows the completed wind. Each group was checking out at 0.8 ohms.

[IMG][/IMG]

Now. I've tried to understand the notation for drawing motor winds and I find it confusing. So if you can follow my sketch, it goes like this. These are all north. Wind Coil 1 upper then drop down to Coil 1 lower then over to Coil 2 lower then up to Coil 2 upper then over to Coil 3 upper then down to Coil 3 lower. The coils lap in the same way as usual each coil advancing one pole from the last.

This is a 12 group motor with 3 poles per coil. This is one group.

[IMG][/IMG]

The next version of the beast will be cut down with no gaps and a reduced body length as described by UFO and replicated by others.

Carry on hunting

mark

[Midaztouch]

Mark

Hang in there! Your doing great! At the rate your going, you will be spot on in a few weeks!

I wish your "quick and dirty" setup had two comms and you set the timing like UFO said at the very beginning. Then there would be very little discrepancies, just fine tuning.

Keep pushing

Midaz

[Ufopolitics]

My pleasure...

Thanks UFO

My pleasure Mark, it is really great to assist Members like you my friend..."Go getter's"....Makers...stubborn (in the good sense)...your perseverance and insistence is amazing.

I thought about your 'figure 8' comment most of the afternoon and I get it now...It's like an hour glass.

Exactly right...

I don't think my proposal will fix that but I chopped the beast tonight and will do a couple of 'quick and dirty' builds with just a few turns to get a feel for what I think might be happening inside.

I'll re-build it with your 'winding tips' in mind to try and improve the quality of my layering and see how it performs. If my calculations are correct the proposed re-build should put the resistance up around 1.25 ohms per group.

I don't want to ditch the motor as a learning tool just yet as it interchanges so quickly with the OEM in the scooter. I would say the 'beast' is in its middle age with retirement just around the corner though.

Best regards

mark

Well, you may be amazed what a middle age guy like that could do...

It is a matter of time for you to get everything straight forward...and burning rubber...


Regards


Ufopolitics

[HuntingRoss]

Thanks UFO

I thought about your 'figure 8' comment most of the afternoon and I get it now...It's like an hour glass.

I don't think my proposal will fix that but I chopped the beast tonight and will do a couple of 'quick and dirty' builds with just a few turns to get a feel for what I think might be happening inside.

I'll re-build it with your 'winding tips' in mind to try and improve the quality of my layering and see how it performs. If my calculations are correct the proposed re-build should put the resistance up around 1.25 ohms per group.

I don't want to ditch the motor as a learning tool just yet as it interchanges so quickly with the OEM in the scooter. I would say the 'beast' is in its middle age with retirement just around the corner though.

Best regards

mark

[Ufopolitics]

Number Eight "Pattern"...

Thanks UFO

I understand the frustration of watching a Newbie stumble through the learning curve of a new subject but I do appreciate everyones patience and assistance, especially your helpful nudges to keep me 'straight'.

It was the torque test that crystalised my analysis of the 'beast' and I have a proposal to rewire that motor because I also suspect that something is 'going on' in the middle region. I might have that done for this weekend but this week is looking a little busy.

The 'beast' is not wired as a Figure 8 but I think you mean the 'interactions' rather than physically wound that way...I hope to address that point.

Best regards

mark

It is OK Mark, is all part of learning...

The "Figure Eight" (8) is not about the winding, I know you did it straight...it is about the South Center Shaft exposed/open section, attracting-looping to the outer rotor Norths as they turn on...therefore, weakening them. This will not take place on a compacted top-bottom solid laminated rotor.

Now, if you compact the two rotors, and get stators together...then it would be unfair for the Symmetrical OEM, as magnetic fields will become stronger at the outer fascia. The best comparison would be an identical sized armature/rotor.

For your knowledge, the Imperial P56, have Eight Stators, but they are completely attached together vertically, mating South-South, North-North...at first look they seem just Four Stator-Magnets.

The "Compactness" of all components of an Electromagnet are very important for their field strength output.

1- Compactness of the Core Laminations.
2- Compactness of the wires configuring the coil(s)

When We wind a Coil, it is extremely important to keep a constant tension on wire AND to try NOT TO cross over wires, but to run them tight and very close/PARALLEL one to the other.

The windings should go as 'Layers' from interior to exterior, and then returning from exterior to interior (closer to shaft)...and so on.

Whenever I want to do a very accurate and precise winding I use a very fine, but very strong tape between each layer, I set the tape in the same direction of winding, so that when I pull tape I compact wire even more.

Every Coil and Group must be wound with same consistency and same winding procedure...this will generate identical fields strength when turned on, as well when they generate out.

This Concepts also apply for Generators Induced Coils/Fields.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[HuntingRoss]

Thanks UFO

I understand the frustration of watching a Newbie stumble through the learning curve of a new subject but I do appreciate everyones patience and assistance, especially your helpful nudges to keep me 'straight'.

It was the torque test that crystalised my analysis of the 'beast' and I have a proposal to rewire that motor because I also suspect that something is 'going on' in the middle region. I might have that done for this weekend but this week is looking a little busy.

The 'beast' is not wired as a Figure 8 but I think you mean the 'interactions' rather than physically wound that way...I hope to address that point.

Best regards

mark

[Ufopolitics]

As promised for completeness. The figures for the single comm earth/ground shaft build -

Using 0.425mm wire @ 0.121 ohm/m

12 groups
3 coils per group
15 turns per coil
All earthed to the shaft at the bottom of the groups

I didn't do a resistance test per se but did a calculation based on metres used per group which is 5.2m giving approx 0.63 ohms.

Connection this time was via both wires using the body as the output.

10.34v PSU no load
10.26v @ 1.04A @ 2280 rpm with 4.74v output.
Stall amps approx 5.6A

5.39v PSU no load
5.16v @ 0.92A @ 1080 rpm with 2.64v output.
Stall amps approx 3.4A

For comparison. The OEM motor.

10.3v @ 1.18A @ 1546 rpm.
I couldn't pinch the shaft tightly enough to stall. Amps was 7A and rising.

5.22v @ 1.18A @ 763 rpm.
Stall amps approx 5.9A

--S--

The test today was to rig for measuring torque. It's rough and ready and serves as comparison between all 3 motors.

The arm that I fabricated weighs 175g with the centre of mass 10mm from the shaft centre. Close enough that I discounted the arm from the calculations.

The principle for operation was to manually support the arm perpendicular to the ground (floor) with the balance suspended from the arm and tethered to the ground. Switch the motor on and the balance would record the load applied by the stalled motor. The initial reading drops then stabilises, where, after 2 seconds the balance 'locks' and records the stable result.

24v Battery (from scooter)

OEM. 1.125kg @ 100mm [0.1125 kgm = 1.10 Nm]
Single comm. 0.355kg @ 100mm [0.0355 kgm = 0.348 Nm]
Beast (2 comm). 0.610kg @ 100mm [0.061 kgm = 0.598 Nm]

The OEM is rated at 0.42 Nm @ 2500 rpm...not 1.10 Nm. What ever the reason for the discrepancy, for a baseline test the OEM has almost twice the torque of the Beast and four times the Single Comm.

Keep hunting

mark

Hello Mark,

Well, sorry to tell you, but there is definitively something wrong with your 'beast' my friend.

ALL the Asymmetrical Machines has been so far proven of much higher torque than any Symmetrical original, so either you have a timing issue or something else there.

About your build I will tell you about some things I don't like:

I do not like splitting the rotor and stators in two parts, so there is DOUBLE the rotor mass for the same amount of wire, considering there is absolutely no magnetic interactions at all between the Empty Gap, even though wires are running through it, there is no steel, no stators. This gap would not contribute to more output either...

And looking at the magnetic field pattern...you are creating a number eight (8) look alike shape....You must realize that the All North Machines generate the South Pole at the Steel Shaft...magnetism travels through diamagnetic's materials like copper without any influence nor blocking it...so that Gap of South Shaft attracts the North poles generated at rotor fascia, weakening it...that's why the number "8"

A fair approach to compare against the OEM would be to build SAME size Rotor, SAME size Stators...and SAME exact type of wire.

The second part I do not like is your 'calculated resistance'...if true, is way too low...I have repeated here that it MUST BE above 0.7 Ohms minimum per independent Group/Pair, and being 1.0 ohms the ideal scenario. A very low resistance could mean very poor/low magnetic field strength IF you are using a lower gauge wire than original, which is your case...plus a very low resistance per Interaction would definitively rise your amps draw sky high.

I really enjoy and appreciate your enthusiasm on building all this machines and providing all this testings...but at the same time I want you to do it right, in order to achieve satisfactory results towards the Asymmetry...like so many members here have proven so far.

Keep up the great work!


Kind Regards


Ufopolitics

[Lightworker1]

Oscillating LC in Asymmetric Motors

Lightworker

Thank you for your vid. I see you put a lot of effort, time and planning in your setup. Could you explain why you connected capacitors to your motor winding?


Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

Hello Midaz

Thanks for watching the video and appreciating it.
Here is a very simplified description of LC circuit instead of just Inductive Coil in our type of ASYMMETRIC MOTOR.

The circuit is oscillating entity. The energy in the universe can be written as E=hf where h is Planck's Constant and f the frequency.

It is true that even just a simple coil on its own has some self-capacitance.




In reality things are of course much more complex. In our motors other fields will also be playing their role.

Also at LC Resonance, interesting phenomena can also manifest.
For example, Tesla and Don Smith's OU systems use resonance.





The idea of LC has been discussed in this forum before.
See post #3920 by UFOPOLITICS 3 POLE_3 CAPS_10





It is an experimental idea. Furthermore, on the suggestion of UFO, the capacitor temperature monitoring system was put into place in this project as it has been noted by others before that heat death of capacitors is a possibility.

I hope this answers the question. Lets see where this idea of LC takes us to.

Warmest regards

light

[Lightworker1]

G'Day Light
I really enjoyed your setup it's been a lot of work in the making and easy to see all the parameters I cant wait to get back into my projects so as to finish them
Kindest Regards
Kogs

Thanks my dear friend Kogs.
My Prayers are with you that you are back to your R&D Passion ASAP.

Warmest Regards

light

[Midaztouch]

Hi Midaz

The new build of the single comm is just one segment off your suggestion...not 2 as per the 'quick and dirty'...I set the timing back to my original diagram.

I was lucky in deciding on 15 turns per coil rather than my proposed 20 as it was really close to not getting the wedges in...at best I could do one or more per coil...I think as I get more used to winding motors I will be more efficient at layering the wire...but for now it is maxed out.

My next job is to strip the 'beast' and try and get it to equal the OEM...I have one idea for this...beyond that I don't know how to match the OEM which turns out to be quite a formidable little package...when it registered over 1kg today I was extremely surprised.

regards

mark

Mark

Winging these motors is a labor of love! I had to wind the Imperial 4 times to get it right

Don't forget coil gauge must be factored in. Also, the group winding/lap winding focuses more on the generation of power. We can use other windings than that...

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[HuntingRoss]

Hi Midaz

The new build of the single comm is just one segment off your suggestion...not 2 as per the 'quick and dirty'...I set the timing back to my original diagram.

I was lucky in deciding on 15 turns per coil rather than my proposed 20 as it was really close to not getting the wedges in...at best I could do one or more per coil...I think as I get more used to winding motors I will be more efficient at layering the wire...but for now it is maxed out.

My next job is to strip the 'beast' and try and get it to equal the OEM...I have one idea for this...beyond that I don't know how to match the OEM which turns out to be quite a formidable little package...when it registered over 1kg today I was extremely surprised.

regards

mark

[Midaztouch]

Mark

I see your kicking some serious butt, QUICKLY

I see two areas to increase the torque.
1.) Timing to the stator bi-sector.
2.) Can you add more turns to your coils

Time for some fine tuning

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz