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  • P66 motor wind

    Greetings:

    I have wound 21 groups on the P66 armature with 5 turns per per unit.

    My windings aren't tight enough to suit me, so they are coming off and I'll start from scratch again. (Tis good practice, and eventually I'll get good at winding armatures.)

    The question becomes: What is the best way to wind this armature now? Mr. UFOPolitics has been kind enough to make a drawing for me to use with overlapping winds and that is what has been followed.
    Is there a better hack out there now? If so Mr.UFOPolitics, would you extend me another kindness and make a drawing?

    Else, I'll keep on with the current version and try something different using a P56 motor.

    Thanks,

    glen

    Comment


    • Simple test...

      Originally posted by GlenWV View Post
      Greetings:

      I have wound 21 groups on the P66 armature with 5 turns per per unit.

      My windings aren't tight enough to suit me, so they are coming off and I'll start from scratch again. (Tis good practice, and eventually I'll get good at winding armatures.)

      The question becomes: What is the best way to wind this armature now? Mr. UFOPolitics has been kind enough to make a drawing for me to use with overlapping winds and that is what has been followed.
      Is there a better hack out there now? If so Mr.UFOPolitics, would you extend me another kindness and make a drawing?

      Else, I'll keep on with the current version and try something different using a P56 motor.

      Thanks,

      glen

      Hello Glen,

      Let's define all asymmetric machines into a singular concept...

      All Asymmetric Machines work based on the same principle, which is activating/firing/energizing at least two 'circuits' at the same time per brush set...where 'circuits' could be either a single coil, a pair of coils or a group of more than two coils...simple so far.

      Now, one 'short cut' testing, in order to find out the more suitable configuration without going through the time and effort to wind the whole thing is pretty simple.

      Just wind Two adjacent 'circuits' on one end and two more apart by exactly 180...then put motor together, align brushes by spinning shaft until you get contact with first circuit on both ends, where -according to rotation- it will energize first one then number two on both sides, mark shaft and stationary housing in order to make further alignments easier....then apply power to both brush sets apart by 180 and watch/feel/measure which 'circuit' will have more torque as well as more 'displacement', or throw out angle.

      This way you could do all this different winding choices to be tested on just one step of rotation.

      The alignment for all circuits to be fired are all the same, which is basically the 'center' of 'circuit' about 5-10 degrees off stator center or bisector.

      Now, the circuit that would be capable to brake inertia, to the point to maintain a continuous spinning once started, by keep firing just four circuits in the whole armature while keeping a high torque...would be your best choice, even though rotation would be kind of rough, since motor would be 'pulsing' magnetic throws separately (not continuous) by time/space.

      Have to realize that armature total weight would be much greater once all 'circuits' are wound...so your main choice here is looking for best 'take off' Torque/Force from a complete inertia.

      You could try holding firmly the shaft and applying power, use some heavy leather gloves...or you could set shaft to a dynamometer or a digital weight scale through a lever connected to shaft.

      Related to your post...you mention the P66 and P56...which one would you be winding?


      Regards


      Ufopolitics
      Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

      Comment


      • P66 motor wind

        Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
        Hello Glen,

        Let's define all asymmetric machines into a singular concept...

        All Asymmetric Machines work based on the same principle, which is activating/firing/energizing at least two 'circuits' at the same time per brush set...where 'circuits' could be either a single coil, a pair of coils or a group of more than two coils...simple so far.
        .....

        Related to your post...you mention the P66 and P56...which one would you be winding?

        Regards

        Ufopolitics
        Greetings:

        I've been winding the P66 rotor using the drawing that you provided. I'll continue with that.

        Thanks again,

        glen

        Comment


        • UFO-

          I just want to offer my apologies for participating in the hijacked offshoot of YOUR work and project. I was unaware of this and the massive controversy surrounding it until it was brought to my attention via email of someone I contacted, and even more so when a post was made in that thread more or less attempting to put down your work in an incredibly immature and egotistical manner. I will no longer be participating in said thread after last night's investigating.
          Again, I apologize for my participation in said thread and not recognizing that it was what it was. I should have realized this earlier. Hindsight 20-20, as usual.

          However, I would like to participate in your work. (possibly being an extension of Tesla's work, and in no way a "hijacking of it" like was suggested several times...) After my ignorance and participation in the 'other' thread, I don't expect you to take any time in assisting me, and that is fine, I understand.

          Regards and many apologies,
          Brian

          btw - I think Tesla would be thrilled that you have revived his ideas after such a long time, and after so much suppression by big-money interests.

          Comment


          • Hi Brian

            There is a subtle but important difference between nescient and ignorant. Nescient is an absence of knowledge and ignorance is a lack of knowledge.

            When you became aware of the situation you acted to correct the absence of knowledge. Ignorance is being aware but not acting.

            You'll notice that I'm relatively new to this forum and I have recieved only helpful advice from those participating in this thread, especially from UFO.

            There is a great spirit of sharing here.

            Happy hunting

            mark

            Comment


            • Welcome here Brian!

              Originally posted by brian516 View Post
              UFO-

              I just want to offer my apologies for participating in the hijacked offshoot of YOUR work and project. I was unaware of this and the massive controversy surrounding it until it was brought to my attention via email of someone I contacted, and even more so when a post was made in that thread more or less attempting to put down your work in an incredibly immature and egotistical manner. I will no longer be participating in said thread after last night's investigating.
              Again, I apologize for my participation in said thread and not recognizing that it was what it was. I should have realized this earlier. Hindsight 20-20, as usual.

              However, I would like to participate in your work. (possibly being an extension of Tesla's work, and in no way a "hijacking of it" like was suggested several times...) After my ignorance and participation in the 'other' thread, I don't expect you to take any time in assisting me, and that is fine, I understand.

              Regards and many apologies,
              Brian

              btw - I think Tesla would be thrilled that you have revived his ideas after such a long time, and after so much suppression by big-money interests.

              Hello Brian516 and Welcome aboard,

              Don't worry about your previous confusion, it is not your fault.

              As you could see this guy is not there to help anyone, just to insist/push his "design" of single poles Imperial as "his own idea"...however, he is using ALL my CAD's and all my designs to run that thread.

              He has never wound any other motor than the Imperial he has been working on for over two years...

              Never has put together a small motor as the one you have.

              One of my first Diagrams here on post#96 written on 7/14/2012 was about a SINGLE COIL THREE POLE MOTOR and Diagram below:

              [IMG][/IMG]

              And as I wrote there, this type of winding is applicable to other configuration in bigger machines.

              But hey, let's talk about your five pole and forget about all 'counterfeit material'

              First do not listen to that guy about winding your motor with a HEAVIER GAUGE, pure nonsense, you use the SAME or FINER GAUGE and motor will run perfectly smooth and fine.

              The Imperial he is working on is originally wound with 16 awg and NOT with 18 awg like he is doing it right now...so, forgive him, he is full of it to the top of his head, and it does not allow him to think properly.

              About the Mechanical Set Up:

              To remove all epoxy resin and separate plastic fan, you will need a very sharp and fine blade and be very careful with fingers. try getting blade in between without damaging the epoxy on rotor metal.

              After fan out and all epoxy in slots, between poles taken out, you need to spread open each commutator hook, going from above to brake them apart to be able to pull wires out with a fine needle nose pliers, do it to both motors commutators. Do not apply heat with a soldering gun, as you may brake the comm copper elements from mica, then commutator is not good anymore.

              To pull one commutator out to use it on main motor you have to do it EVENLY FROM BELOW, meaning, DO NOT PUSH ONLY from one element or it will brake apart. Do not try to turn commutator while on shaft either, shaft has straight splines and you will brake it if forcing to turn it.

              This motors have enough room to add second commutator, but you may have to force shaft a bit up (towards shaft take off power), leaving less space at bottom of motor (back) enough to get shaft inside rear bushing...just measure distances.

              The other part to do is to 'elongate' or extrude the Main outer casing...where you may have to cut a ring off the end of second motor where brushes are mounted, it is all about doing the right measurements where to cut. At Main Motor you have to cut rear end to solder or glue the brush ring and use the housing and brushes from second motor. When you do all this cutting and soldering is better to remove magnets from casing. I have a 175 Watts Soldering Gun that could do that job easily. If you do not have that kind of gun, you could use epoxy or other glue compounds to 'weld' metal.

              Make sure before soldering the whole ring , tack it first and test freedom of shaft movement (not binding) by assembling the whole motor together with magnets and all brushes.

              When pressing the second commutator, make sure it is perfectly aligned to bottom one (the original that came with motor), meaning, aligning element to element in a linear fashion, as well as when you solder the casing ring, make sure it will hold brushes seating identical above and below.

              About the winding:

              Once you have all mechanical structures finished...the easier part is to wind it.

              The first winding on this Five Pole Motor was displayed here
              and CAD below:

              [IMG][/IMG]

              Here you could use different type of windings, including the Pentagon type or the 'Single Coil' unbelievable idea of this guy..., and I have all drawings to follow up the winding method of your choice.

              [IMG][/IMG]

              However, I recommend to wind the All North Type, where all coils (no matter if single or pairs) are wound all in same direction, like I have shown on the post I cited link above, on the three pole first motor I have shown here.

              Below is a video on a five pole where I test/compare the North-South Pairs versus the All North Pairs.

              [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diY96XR76Fg[/VIDEO]


              Cheers and remember to be careful with blade.


              Good luck friend.


              Ufopolitics
              Last edited by Ufopolitics; 02-15-2015, 02:08 PM.
              Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                Hello to all,

                [IMG][/IMG]

                This is another option to wind the All North Pairs configuration, this time based on overlapping the coils in the pair, and not completely independent like it was proposed before.

                [IMG][/IMG]

                On my previous five poles from Radio Shack motor, I used overlapped coils in the pair, having a common pole for both...but, when I adapted this config to Imperial and larger machines, I used adjacent, separated coils in the pair, not overlapped, my error...I never claimed I can not make mistakes, nor that 'I am perfect' guys...human nature.

                When we overlap coils, as close between them as geometry allows, creating a greater common area, the magnetic field spreads and become stronger than separated coils in series, just because we are concentrating the high magnetic field pressure on the intersection or common area from the overlapped section, and this can only be done with all north configuration, since we could never overlap a north and a south pair without 'chopping' magnetic fields.

                On the Imperial Diagram above, we have P1 and P2...as well as P15 and P16 being energized by making contact to both commutator elements in both circuits, this 'High Side Interaction' happen every time during rotation alternating with full engagement of just one Pair at a time or 'Low Side Interaction'. Therefore, it could be seen the concentration of four bisectors at High Side from the two pairs being fired at both ends of rotor 180 apart, as you guys could notice we are magnetizing a total of Eight (8) poles in rotor from two overlapped pairs...so coils in pair are overlapped, as pairs overlap between them.

                And of course, we have a great gap for adjustment of this Four -very compact- Bisectors during High Side...either getting them closer to repulse or North Stator (5)...or setting them at 'Neutral Zone' (exactly half way between both N-S stator bisectors) ...or closer to attract mode(10-15)...then comparing results for all three timing adjustments.

                So, this is the way I will be winding one of my Imperial Rotors in the All North Pairs...in a near future.

                And there is something else I want to add here:

                This is an Open Source Thread ever since I opened here, therefore, is an open Thread for improvements from any member replicating here, I propose a winding type and only when we build it and test it, we would be able to know and write the real results and overall performance of the new concept versus prior method, as to compare it to previous designs. So, if it has not been built...it can not be 'predicted' or assumed' what it would do just based on 'thoughts'...

                However, I understand many of Us have the experience from many models being built over our time here and before this thread, now, this is a priceless experience that allows just by looking at a CAD design...we can tell how strong and great it would be...or what the possible withdraws and failures it could bring...which is a great attribute for whoever has it.

                As well as there are no Designs better than the other...I love them all!, just because... 'IF' we have not done first the older ones...we would have never come up with top notch designs...it is the law of EVOLVING, of Development...basically in this Open Source Technology, where everyone could test, compare and share results.


                Cheers


                Ufopolitics
                Hello my dear friend UFO, designs are evolving towards the ultimate goal for the Asymmetric Motor Technology that will achieve the stated goals and what's more it is open source. Soon hopefully, I will try this concept on my imperial too. Wish all the best.

                Warmest regards UFO and all the hard working members of this forum

                light

                Comment


                • Advice

                  Is it possible for someone to link me to the part of thread that talks about removing the wires from the comutator And gauge wire best used in rewireing. I ordered 29 and 24 gauge. Im in the process of engineering a portable "self continued energy manifestor" asymmetrical motors are a key in my design.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by YahwehisSpirit View Post
                    Is it possible for someone to link me to the part of thread that talks about removing the wires from the comutator And gauge wire best used in rewireing. I ordered 29 and 24 gauge. Im in the process of engineering a portable "self continued energy manifestor" asymmetrical motors are a key in my design.
                    Yahwe

                    I found the most effective method to lift the tabs was to use some flat nose pliers. Press them flat to the commutator before lightly gripping the tab and then small twists to break the seal. Then a fine blade to ease them open.

                    On the wire gauge question. I understand the gauge is chosen such that the coil pairs or coil groups for your wind are in the region of One ohm.

                    Happy Hunting

                    mark

                    Comment


                    • Thankyou Very Much!!

                      Originally posted by HuntingRoss View Post
                      Yahwe

                      I found the most effective method to lift the tabs was to use some flat nose pliers. Press them flat to the commutator before lightly gripping the tab and then small twists to break the seal. Then a fine blade to ease them open.

                      On the wire gauge question. I understand the gauge is chosen such that the coil pairs or coil groups for your wind are in the region of One ohm.

                      Happy Hunting

                      mark
                      Its Yahweh is Spirit.

                      Yeah on one motor i tried to pry the tabs with a small flat head but eaded up prying one of the copper contacts off the comutator...is that fixable? its a pretty decent 9v motor for a dremmel..
                      My main motor is an 18v motor from a cordless drill I have 2, 1 for extra parts i.e second comutator etc.. Question, does anyone have experience with taking the gear off the motor that runs the gear box??? I pulled and pulled and pulled to no avail

                      As to the gauge of wire does the more wraps increase ohm or is it gauge wrapped? would smaller gauge for more wraps to equal 1 ohm be better than a larger gauge with less ??

                      My electrical technical fire has started again, it hasn't burned like this since i was told what wasn't possible for electricity. A really crazy one is I was really really into radiant energy and got deep into it in 2010 but in 2011 i went and lived in the woods for a year and came back june 2012. When i was into it there wasnt much video to watch on youtube about overunity well not much with alot of meat and what was there you had to dig and dig and do aloooooooooot of reading. Ufopolotics I am greatly appreciative for Yahweh opening your eyes to these simple truths that unify us in his pattern

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by YahwehisSpirit View Post
                        Its Yahweh is Spirit.

                        Yeah on one motor i tried to pry the tabs with a small flat head but eaded up prying one of the copper contacts off the comutator...is that fixable? its a pretty decent 9v motor for a dremmel..
                        My main motor is an 18v motor from a cordless drill I have 2, 1 for extra parts i.e second comutator etc.. Question, does anyone have experience with taking the gear off the motor that runs the gear box??? I pulled and pulled and pulled to no avail

                        As to the gauge of wire does the more wraps increase ohm or is it gauge wrapped? would smaller gauge for more wraps to equal 1 ohm be better than a larger gauge with less ??

                        My electrical technical fire has started again, it hasn't burned like this since i was told what wasn't possible for electricity. A really crazy one is I was really really into radiant energy and got deep into it in 2010 but in 2011 i went and lived in the woods for a year and came back june 2012. When i was into it there wasnt much video to watch on youtube about overunity well not much with alot of meat and what was there you had to dig and dig and do aloooooooooot of reading. Ufopolotics I am greatly appreciative for Yahweh opening your eyes to these simple truths that unify us in his pattern
                        I have never had to fix a broken comm sector but I suppose with reasonable care it could be bonded with an appropriate adhesive. Getting it lined and level sounds like a problem, if it's proud of the true face then the brushes will suffer. Go for small sideways twists and you'll feel the tab release.

                        I recently read an 'Instructable' on cordless drills being chopped for robot builds. It covered the left hand threads and small lock screws, so I think that would give you all the info required to strip one down. It didn't seem that excessive force was required.

                        Happy hunting

                        mark

                        Oh...and I forgot to mention the coils...more turns of thinner wire seems to be the best way to boost the resistance.
                        Last edited by HuntingRoss; 02-21-2015, 09:24 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Thankyou!

                          Originally posted by HuntingRoss View Post
                          I have never had to fix a broken comm sector but I suppose with reasonable care it could be bonded with an appropriate adhesive. Getting it lined and level sounds like a problem, if it's proud of the true face then the brushes will suffer. Go for small sideways twists and you'll feel the tab release.

                          I recently read an 'Instructable' on cordless drills being chopped for robot builds. It covered the left hand threads and small lock screws, so I think that would give you all the info required to strip one down. It didn't seem that excessive force was required.

                          Happy hunting

                          mark

                          Oh...and I forgot to mention the coils...more turns of thinner wire seems to be the best way to boost the resistance.
                          My wire just came in the mail just now! Two rolls of 24awg and 1 roll of 29awg though now i feel i should have gotten two 29awg or even 3! Yeah while at work i read up on it and even found a tool on ebay for 12$ with diff rods for diff size motor to remove pinions called a "pinion puller".

                          Question: Can i buy just any stainless steel 3mm rod to then cut for a longer shaft? And may someone point me to a good plac to find out how to safely remove comutators to use on other motors!!!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by YahwehisSpirit View Post
                            My wire just came in the mail just now! Two rolls of 24awg and 1 roll of 29awg though now i feel i should have gotten two 29awg or even 3! Yeah while at work i read up on it and even found a tool on ebay for 12$ with diff rods for diff size motor to remove pinions called a "pinion puller".

                            Question: Can i buy just any stainless steel 3mm rod to then cut for a longer shaft? And may someone point me to a good plac to find out how to safely remove comutators to use on other motors!!!
                            Selected quotes from UFO's post #7374 above.

                            To pull one commutator out to use it on main motor you have to do it EVENLY FROM BELOW, meaning, DO NOT PUSH ONLY from one element or it will brake apart. Do not try to turn commutator while on shaft either, shaft has straight splines and you will brake it if forcing to turn it.

                            When pressing the second commutator, make sure it is perfectly aligned to bottom one (the original that came with motor), meaning, aligning element to element in a linear fashion, as well as when you solder the casing ring, make sure it will hold brushes seating identical above and below.

                            you need to spread open each commutator hook, going from above to brake them apart to be able to pull wires out with a fine needle nose pliers, do it to both motors commutators. Do not apply heat with a soldering gun, as you may brake the comm copper elements from mica, then commutator is not good anymore.
                            I avoided all the commutator and shaft issues by taking two motors and bonding them back to back. The one issue to resolve in that build is alignment of shafts, but it was pretty straight forward with care.

                            Happy Hunting

                            mark

                            Comment


                            • How bad is it?

                              Originally posted by HuntingRoss View Post
                              Selected quotes from UFO's post #7374 above.



                              I avoided all the commutator and shaft issues by taking two motors and bonding them back to back. The one issue to resolve in that build is alignment of shafts, but it was pretty straight forward with care.

                              Happy Hunting

                              mark
                              What do you mean by bonding two motors?

                              ok so i managed to pull the tabs pretty decently but i damaged it a little bit when i was getting it off the shaft. I thought i cut off all the bonding on the shaft but not all Im posting some pictures can someone tell me if the comutator is damaged beyond use!!!!!
                              Attached Files

                              Comment


                              • Re shaft

                                Oh and again can i get any stainless steel sheft 3mm to use in the motor?

                                Comment

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