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  • About me now...

    Hello to All,

    Like I have written before...I have been very busy working on a fascinating material I will be displaying very soon on a separate Thread...not related to Motors, but to Generators...and actually, not even specifically about Generating Machines...but, about a very new, novel way to Induce Electricity from Magnetic Fields...yes, another type of Induction.

    This Induction is completely different from all we know so far...so, Machines that uses this concept are also very different...

    I am working on building small scale Models to demonstrate all it could do...plus all related written Diagrams and Graphic/Visual Material.


    This is a reason why I have not been that "active" on this Thread as before...

    At the same token, I really do not have the time either -at this stage- to be that active, on simple structured Motor Designs explanations and responses.


    ...and I hope you will understand when you all see what am talking about...


    All I recommend is to tighten your seat belts, for the ride is coming soon...


    Kind Regards to All


    Ufopolitics
    Last edited by Ufopolitics; 11-15-2014, 03:26 PM.
    Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

    Comment


    • Beast #3.1

      Thanks UFO

      I was about to post the following when I noticed your post.

      My problem is being able to build a motor to exact spec as I have no equipment to press out shafts and replace with longer ones. The OEM motor has no space at the bottom for an extra comm. My very first 'quick and dirty' build used the salvage wire from the OEM but only four turns per coil (12 per group) so the resistance was way down. It did work as you may remember...it ran like a horse and when I stepped it up from 5v to 10v it threw a wire and met its demise.

      I understand your concern about rotor mass, but the mass runs quickly up to full speed and after a stall test accelerates back to max almost instantly. So I'm not sure the mass is as much of an impediment to performance as you think.

      The reduction in wire length from #2 to #3 is one turn per coil (3 per group) which is not ideal but has not had a huge impact on the figures. If I was getting better figures on these tests I would wind them to 15 or 16 per coil which is the max I can achive for this gauge (refer to 1 comm asym build).

      I am interested in your alternative 'Pairs' build although I have never been clear what that means when seen it mentioned in other posts. I have an idea but it's not as clear as the groups of 3 to me. I also understand you have many other things going on behind the scenes with limited time to fault find results. So I appreciate your time on this.

      So to my latest result.

      From above -

      A 10v PSU torque test between OEM and Beast #2.

      OEM. 0.655kg @ 100mm. Stall amps 9.6
      Beast #2. 0.200kg @ 100mm. Stall amps 8.3

      Beast #3 (2 stators) -

      10.34v PSU no load
      10.21v @ 1.60A @ 3210 rpm with 8.45v out
      0.220kg @ 100mm. Stall amps 9.0.
      For clartity then. OEM is 1 (one) stator. Beast #1 and #2 are 2 (two) stators in the the original OEM body welded back-to-back.

      Beast #3 above is 2 (two) stators with the middle gap between the laminations removed to make one contiguous lamination stack.

      Beast #3.1 (now) is 1 (one) stator in the original OEM body with the second stator removed. The overall armature / body length has not changed from Beast #3.

      10.31v PSU no load
      10.13v @ 1.98A @ 4975 rpm with 8.2v out
      0.220kg @ 100mm. Stall amps not measured.

      Timing for all these motors is as illustrated in UFO's post -

      Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
      4-All North Groups...Now, if you wanna go for "the Gold"...since you have started on this Thread at this stage...then do this type:

      [IMG][/IMG]
      And confirmed -

      Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
      Originally Posted by HuntingRoss. I don't think I have to do much adjustment to the design.

      If I'm understanding the subject...I just need to make sure that as comm G1 is coming onto the brush that G1 coil 1 bisector is past the centre of the magnet.

      YES!!...You've got it perfectly well!!
      That is the MAIN part for Machine to work perfectly timed!
      Happy hunting

      mark

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
        Hello to All,

        Like I have written before...I have been very busy working on a fascinating material I will be displaying very soon on a separate Thread...not related to Motors, but to Generators...and actually, not even specifically about Generating Machines...but, about a very new, novel way to Induce Electricity from Magnetic Fields...yes, another type of Induction.

        This Induction is completely different from all we know so far...so, Machines that uses this concept are also very different...

        I am working on building small scale Models to demonstrate all it could do...plus all related written Diagrams and Graphic/Visual Material.


        This is a reason why I have not been that "active" on this Thread as before...

        At the same token, I really do not have the time either -at this stage- to be that active, on simple structured Motor Designs explanations and responses.


        ...and I hope you will understand when you all see what am talking about...


        All I recommend is to tighten your seat belts, for the ride is coming soon...


        Kind Regards to All


        Ufopolitics
        Hello Our Dear Friend UFO, take as much time you need and we are waiting patiently. It is the first wave of project that takes most of time.

        Best of very good luck.


        WARMEST REGARDS

        lightworker

        Nikola Tesla quote:
        “If the genius of invention were to reveal to-morrow the secret of immortality, of eternal beauty and youth, for which all humanity is aching, the same inexorable agents which prevent a mass from changing suddenly its velocity would likewise resist the force of the new knowledge until time gradually modifies human thought.”

        Comment


        • OK. So I've been trawling for 'all north pairs' and found this from UFO on north-south pairs. If I understand this I just need to wind the south in the other direction to make them both north...seems obvious.

          It also seems to be that 4 (four) comm segments are connected as 1 (one).

          Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
          [IMG][/IMG]
          still hunting

          mark

          Comment


          • Negative Mark...

            Originally posted by HuntingRoss View Post
            OK. So I've been trawling for 'all north pairs' and found this from UFO on north-south pairs. If I understand this I just need to wind the south in the other direction to make them both north...seems obvious.
            Hello Mark,

            Sorry about this, ...but your assumptions are wrong my friend...

            It is not just about changing all the South Coils to North Coils and vualá it will do the All North Pairs conversion...nope...it will work...but not as expected.

            On the other assumption :

            It also seems to be that 4 (four) comm segments are connected as 1 (one).



            still hunting

            mark
            Not right either, all commutator elements are SEPARATED to each INDEPENDENT PAIR...I did this Color Legend (below on Graphic) just to notice which Groups are at Generating side and which at Motor Stage in the Timing sequence.

            In the All North Pairs is much easier...

            [IMG][/IMG]

            Above is a P-10 All North...and in your 12 Pole:

            [IMG][/IMG]

            So, I do not want you to keep struggling all by yourself here, and going wrong ways...so, You get rid of Coil Number Two (2) PLUS expand to SIX TOTAL POLES in the Pair (3+3) (instead of FIVE TOTAL in your previous Group), and...just a bit of "tweaking"...to get the timing right

            Here you will have a wider North (and so a wider South on the other end at 180º, but don't stop thinking here about what is not shown...)

            Use ALL the wire you could split in half between each two poles...and start playing with the alignment towards more repulse, here on diagram is set at Neutral Fire, right between both stator poles bottom gap....and your needle to adjust timing here is based on the common slot at Pairs Center, where P# are written.


            Regards


            Ufopolitics
            Last edited by Ufopolitics; 11-16-2014, 02:53 PM.
            Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

            Comment


            • Once again, thank you UFO

              I stripped the beast this morning and wound it with my wrong assumptions. Just completed it about 30 minutes ago and then plugged it in to 5v.

              There was a small kick but that was it...apart from heat build up.

              On the up side though. My coil pairs are wound just as you describe (all north) with 14 turns per coil (28 the pair) giving about 0.8 ohms. And there is room for maybe 20 per coil.

              I connected each pair to its respective comm element and jumped 4 together so I just need to undo that bit and it might work.

              My timing looks just about the same...the P1 comm aligns with the P1 slot 180 degrees apart.

              I shall adjust this, probably by tomorrow night.

              Best regards

              mark

              Edit. Nope....actually my timing is wrong...the brushes are on the magnet bisector...so I will adjust accordingly.
              Last edited by HuntingRoss; 11-16-2014, 07:33 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DadHav View Post
                Midas, In the early posts several people including myself wound the first motor all north and it didn't work and we where made fun of for making the mistake, but it all makes sense. 4 legs all producing the same pole is to many to work right?
                John
                Hi John

                Yes, I think 4 legs will not work properly. To clarify things. How did you wind the 5pole with 4 legs? One big coil or two coils or...?


                Keep it Clean and Green
                Midaz
                Last edited by Midaztouch; 11-17-2014, 12:56 PM.

                Comment


                • UFO
                  And if you are referring to wrapping just One Coil per Two Poles, STILL, you will be forced to Overlap them.
                  Yes, yes, this is exactly what I was trying to say. One coil per Two Poles tied to comms and finished. Next coil overlaps the first coil and so until all 5 coils are completed. When one coil is energized it will be focused on repel. By the time that coil disconnects, it will be intering the neutral zone. That's far before the next magnet bisector.

                  I've read your post, to me, several times. And yes, you did go over it with me before. I understood it then and I understand it now. Sorry for the misunderstanding and that you had to waste your valuable time to go over that twice

                  I'm looking forward to your next creation!

                  Keep it Clean and Green
                  Midaz
                  Last edited by Midaztouch; 11-17-2014, 12:57 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Midaztouch View Post
                    Hi John

                    Yes, I think 4 legs will not work properly. To clarify things. How did you wind the 5pole with 4 legs? One big coil or two coils or...?


                    Keep it Clean and Green
                    Midaz
                    Hello Midaz, my first wind covered two legs in one direction then the next two in the same direction rather than changing so two would be north and two south. The next wind was as per specs and was represented in my video. The last wind on the motor was the one that had an overlap on the center of three legs and was all north (left to over center and right leg to over center of the three legs). In summary I still do not share the same opinion as others who might be satisfied with their tests.
                    John

                    Comment


                    • Beast #4. One stator. 2 comms back-to-back rotors (bonded) no gaps.

                      Wound as all north pairs...and salvaged from Sunday's abortive test by ONLY re-hooking the comms to adjust the timing. This motor requires to be re-wound to be (3+3)...It is currently (4+4)

                      14 turns 4 pole per coil...28 turns per pair...12 pairs...0.8 ohms per pair.

                      5.4v PSU no load
                      4.95v @ 3.82A @ 3215 rpm with 1.97v out.

                      10.35v PSU no load
                      9.6 - 3.0v @ 4.50A @ 8215 rpm with 4.8 - 1.9v out

                      No torque test tonight.

                      The voltmeter readings were jumping all over the range and the motor was steadily warming up...I'm assuming arcing is the problem here.

                      The acceleration was slow starting and torque on a simple resistance test was quite low. The timing is too close to attraction and could be retarded by 2 segments (maybe 3).

                      I have more wire on order and will rewire this when it arrives to correct timing and 3+3 poles.

                      happy hunting

                      mark

                      Comment


                      • Hey John
                        Originally posted by DadHav View Post
                        Hello Midaz, my first wind covered two legs in one direction then the next two in the same direction rather than changing so two would be north and two south.
                        Now I understand why a lot of experience builders had failed North north tests. You guys wound the motor wrong.
                        The next wind was as per specs and was represented in my video. The last wind on the motor was the one that had an overlap on the center of three legs and was all north (left to over center and right leg to over center of the three legs). In summary I still do not share the same opinion as others who might be satisfied with their tests.
                        John
                        The north south (NS)motors have the strongest torque but they are very hungry.
                        The north North(NN)has weaker torque because of the factory timing and thinner wire gauge

                        You have a lot of experience building motors. What did you think of my windings proposal @2/5? It's the only option left.

                        Keep it Clean and Green
                        Midaz
                        Last edited by Midaztouch; 11-18-2014, 02:52 AM.

                        Comment


                        • All North Imperial question

                          Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                          I have been very busy working on a fascinating material I will be displaying very soon on a separate Thread...not related to Motors, but to Generators...and actually, not even specifically about Generating Machines...but, about a very new, novel way to Induce Electricity from Magnetic Fields...yes, another type of Induction.

                          This Induction is completely different from all we know so far...so, Machines that uses this concept are also very different...

                          I am working on building small scale Models to demonstrate all it could do...plus all related written Diagrams and Graphic/Visual Material.


                          This is a reason why I have not been that "active" on this Thread as before...

                          At the same token, I really do not have the time either -at this stage- to be that active, on simple structured Motor Designs explanations and responses.


                          ...and I hope you will understand when you all see what am talking about...


                          All I recommend is to tighten your seat belts, for the ride is coming soon...

                          UFO & Team – Can't wait for the new release . . . but maybe I should . . .

                          Many apologies for being off the grid and not at my home lab for so long. Sometimes life is like that and we are unable to control the circumstances, but that’s another story for another time and place.

                          Now is the time to get serious with this new All North winding configuration up scaled to the Imperial. To that end we have already contacted Dyann and have an unblemished shaft-rotor and new Commutators in hand.

                          Have a few " honeydos " left to catch up on before we get free time in the shop, but we are close.

                          UFO have you developed any other pictures of the winding sequence for the Imperial other than what you’ve already posted?

                          Been trying to keep up but may have missed something important.

                          Hitby13kw

                          Comment


                          • This is the timing for the rewind when I have the new wire -

                            [IMG][/IMG]

                            I will also try it retarded by one segment which puts it a cats whisker below the magnet bisector.

                            happy hunting

                            mark
                            Last edited by HuntingRoss; 11-18-2014, 08:25 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Midaztouch View Post
                              Hey John
                              Now I understand why a lot of experience builders had failed North north tests. You guys wound the motor wrong.
                              The north south (NS)motors have the strongest torque but they are very hungry.
                              The north North(NN)has weaker torque because of the factory timing and thinner wire gauge

                              You have a lot of experience building motors. What did you think of my windings proposal @2/5? It's the only option left.

                              Keep it Clean and Green
                              Midaz
                              Hello Richie, I'd probably have to decline comment on any winding suggestions that are other than what is prescribed by UFO. Personally if I where to spend more time on this I would do anything possible to design something that doesn't use brushes. I'm still here waiting to see something that makes me want to get more involved but it's just not materializing yet.
                              John
                              Last edited by DadHav; 11-19-2014, 01:22 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DadHav View Post
                                Hello Richie, I'd probably have to decline comment on any winding suggestions that are other than what is subscribed by UFO. Personally if I where to spend more time on this I would do anything possible to design something that doesn't use brushes. I'm still here waiting to see something that makes me want to get more involved but it's just not materializing yet.
                                John
                                John,

                                You've had a lot to say in the past but now you don't have anything to say. Come on, stop that nonsense. This is all about learning and sharing.

                                I asked you a question on a wind that I don't have any experience with. I want to know what you think. Also, you have your own ideas. I'm interested in them. Be cool

                                Keep it Clean and Green
                                Midaz

                                Comment

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