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  • First Baldor Commutator completed with connectors

    Check this out. 40 segments on commutator for 20-pole motor, each segments had 2 19ga wires coming out of it in that retarded symm winding. I wasn't sure how I would handle redoing the wiring so I left the wires in, cut them off about 1/2" long. Since the manufacturing process stamped the wires into the commutator, I did not feel confident the if I just dremmeled out the wires, that I would be able to make a slot that would hold the wires. My other commutator I did dremmel out the wires, some slots look tight, others not, and they just don't look like the will hold since the manufacturer stamped them. I figure there is one more stamp left in it, which is what I will be doing to it when I mount connectors there on the orig 19ga wire. So here is the commutator with 20 connectors BRAZED onto the wires with my acetylene torch with as low a flame as I could get. I am very relieved that I see no heat damage anywhere!



    The challenge with connectors was soldering is verbotten, will melt and splatter when running. I couldn't find the right silver solder, hard stuff, but had some nice brazing rod, lower melting point than gas welding rod. The first few connectors were tough, afraid to heat the commutator too much even with it sitting in a pan of water, and the bazing wouldnt flow into the connector wrapped around the wires even though I had previously brazed the wires into a shaft to hold the connectors. I didn't think I needed flux. Then I came up with the idea to tin the wires with solder and try to get some flux on the top too. Worked good, the solder seemed to act like a flux too, and I figure the solder alloyed into a higher melting point with the brazing, and took less heat as the melting point would be somewhere in between. Connectors look a little long on most, but they should cut down to size easy enough if needed.

    I'll be making faster progress on the other commutator since I will be assembling the connectors & wires without them connected to the commutator. I think that will go easier. I plan on using my propane torch there. Then I will be winding soon. (Hope I got the winding direction right) These comms will lend themselves to multiple redesigns methinks. And since I am using a quad-filar design using 30ga, connectors almost seems necessary for that reason too.



    Kogs! Congratulations. WOW FANTASTIC MOTOR. Ran so tame, purred!!!! even at 9000 RPM!!!! What a pussy cat! Are you sure that isn't a Radio Shack replication??
    I vote for Kogs on the best Imperial replication so far! That is one finished product, ready for manufacture! Nothing left to do but play with the Arduino now
    Hey Midaz Sure you want to race with a motor like that?? No big motor growl!


    PS I guess I am in a good mood. I have been a little slow on my build for a lot of reasons, but for some good ones too, I have my first granddaughter now!
    Last edited by sampojo; 02-24-2014, 04:56 AM. Reason: perfection
    Up, Up and Away

    Comment


    • Request to Ufopolitics

      @Ufopolitics

      I was hoping you could give me your opinion of this generator design that I came up with, based on Bruce DePalma's work.



      Kindest regards,

      Vidbid

      PS: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post251070
      Last edited by vidbid; 02-24-2014, 01:30 AM. Reason: Updated Image
      Regards,

      VIDBID

      Comment


      • Yes Indeed I will...

        Originally posted by vidbid View Post
        @Ufopolitics

        I was hoping you could give me your opinion of this generator design that I came up with, based on Bruce DePalma's work.



        Kindest regards,

        Vidbid

        PS: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post251070

        Hello Vidbid,

        But of course I will!...please just read my intro at my new Thread and you will find your name there...

        http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...1831-date.html

        You just "Forced" Me to start Uploading all this Material...since you started your Thread on Your N-Machine...There are "Basics" there that would lead you to a better understanding as of... why I did it?

        Please be patient.

        Thanks


        Ufopolitics
        Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

        Comment


        • Hey Kogs

          I had a chance to look your vids over. Hats off, Kogs, my friend, you have the winner.. So, UFO, I guess we must have cooked our motors right off the bat last time,. ,
          I bet you've just breathed a new breath of life into these motors, awesome kogs.
          So, now, I have to rewind one of my motors, Kogs, you will have to refresh everyone on what ga, and # turns you used. With amps that low, were are back to more normal priced varistors. And that was all at constant DC, those are amazing results. JEEEEESUS, that thing was moving, 5000 rpm, at 48 v @9 amps, I think that is correct, incredible.
          UFO, have you started rewinding yet.

          Machine

          Comment


          • Originally posted by machinealive View Post
            Hey Kogs

            I had a chance to look your vids over. Hats off, Kogs, my friend, you have the winner.. So, UFO, I guess we must have cooked our motors right off the bat last time,. ,
            I bet you've just breathed a new breath of life into these motors, awesome kogs.
            So, now, I have to rewind one of my motors, Kogs, you will have to refresh everyone on what ga, and # turns you used. With amps that low, were are back to more normal priced varistors. And that was all at constant DC, those are amazing results. JEEEEESUS, that thing was moving, 5000 rpm, at 48 v @9 amps, I think that is correct, incredible.
            UFO, have you started rewinding yet.

            Machine
            Machine...

            So...┐Do You REALLY wanna race Kogs Imperial NOW??!!

            Yeah, I know...Me and my Spanish double quotation marks......I feel it better emphasizes the question...

            Kogs Used EXACTLY same wire I ORIGINALLY recommended or 18 awg...NOT 19 like You chose!!...

            He went more turns than Me (and you I guess)...15 Turns per coil (I fitted 12-13)...total of 4-6 more than mine at each Pair...guess that made this difference.

            Me rewinding my epoxied Imperial again??!!...No Way JosÚ...rather buy another UFO Kit...


            Regards Friend


            Ufopolitics
            Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

            Comment


            • I only tacked mine, I hoped, in a sad twisted way, someone would wind one better. Now I have a new goal set, now we can all see it can be done. It reminds me of Dana! and the monster. Once someone gets it right, it gives everyone else a goal, lessons doubt, if you're getting, tired.

              Btw, UFO, I got about 2-3 weeks left of hard labor, cutting firewood(my free, backbreaking energy ), and clearing a small lot of maples to tap next year, swwweeeeeet . Then I can get to my buds with the water cutter. I did manage to get 5 coats of insulation and varnish on 75 12"x 12", steel sheets.

              Also, I would like to say go Canada Olympic hockey. Yeah baby, men's and woman's gold, gold, gold. The woman's game, was a heart stopper.
              Sorry, hope there is at least one other hockey fan. .

              Machine

              Comment


              • Hockey

                I'm from western PA, and a Penguin fan so I took pleasure, when Crosby was on the ice. All the time it was Crosby this and Crosby that, getting and keeping the puck in play.
                Up, Up and Away

                Comment


                • Kogs,

                  You have to ride the trike across Australia two Cornboys farm!! 12v @ 50amps with 1:3 gearing, should make for an EPIC adventure! Take your smart phone and video it... I will follow your every move!

                  Keep it Clean and Green
                  Midaz

                  Comment


                  • Crosby, Nova Scotia's pride., he has a house across the lake from my sister-in-law. Might be a hotel. The boats are nonstop in the summer, people trying to see him and his hockey friends.
                    Congrats on the new granddaughter, I became a great uncle on the weekend too!

                    Machine

                    Comment


                    • Baldor comm connectors backward

                      Well of course I got it the opposite of what I was trying to follow on this diagram.


                      Dgm 1
                      Here is my comm



                      If you rotate the comm upwards on the horizontal axis, looking at its front and installing it on the front of the rotor, the connectors under the left brush will be pointing downwards. Following Diagram 1, the blue wire comes in from the top, and will not be able to connect.

                      Ufo: So going with the flow, Can the wires be reversed and it will still run in the attraction mode, but just in the opposite direction as shown in this second diagram?


                      Dgm. 2 EDIT: This diagram rotation direction is WRONG, DOES NOT CHANGE FROM DIAGRAM 1

                      Thanks
                      Last edited by sampojo; 03-03-2014, 03:52 PM.
                      Up, Up and Away

                      Comment


                      • Correct...but,...

                        Originally posted by sampojo View Post
                        Well of course I got it the opposite of what I was trying to follow on this diagram.


                        Dgm 1
                        Here is my comm



                        If you rotate the comm upwards on the horizontal axis, looking at its front and installing it on the front of the rotor, the connectors under the left brush will be pointing downwards. Following Diagram 1, the blue wire comes in from the top, and will not be able to connect.

                        Ufo: So going with the flow, Can the wires be reversed and it will still run in the attraction mode, but just in the opposite direction as shown in this second diagram?


                        Dgm. 2

                        Thanks
                        Hello Sam,

                        Remember, the way I have set this Diagram is at NEUTRAL setting.

                        And yes that is correct (related to what you are asking me)... just reverse the North-South (Colors change red to blue) whenever you reverse the voltage input...then follow reactions between P1 rotor and Red South stator and it will give you the rotation sense.

                        However, I do not see right the lower picture...rotation arrow, versus rotor coils polarity positioning related to south stator... it has not changed from upper diagram...so why should it turn reverse?


                        Regards


                        Ufopolitics
                        Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                        Comment


                        • difference between dgm 1&2

                          Ufo, Since my direction is not what I needed on the comm connectors, i.e. pointing up toward the blue N coil, I cannot follow dgm 1. I then must connect downward to the south coil ON THE FRONT COMMUTATOR on dgm 2. The difference is indicated in the names of the blue and red comm connection keys in the lower corners of the diagram, as they are reversed from diagram one, and also the colored comm segments are flip-flopped where the wires hook to the Comm.

                          Can't quite do the math on what this change is doing to directionality or whether I need to do like you are saying about switching the position of the N-S magnets to go along with the Comm switch. I try to rotate it in my mind and everything explodes. Must take a lot of practice to do brain CADS like Tesla did, I hear.

                          PS: A light went on. So with my reversal of my front/rear red/blue connections, I am really changing the +/- inputs too. And as you say this will maintain dgm 1 direction of rotation? I think I got by George!

                          OK I think I am filling in a blind spot in motor winding 101. When you put Blue for North on your diagrams, does that mean that connection takes the positive voltage connection?
                          Last edited by sampojo; 02-27-2014, 06:26 PM. Reason: more questions
                          Up, Up and Away

                          Comment


                          • Positive Connection...

                            Originally posted by sampojo View Post
                            Ufo, Since my direction is not what I needed on the comm connectors, i.e. pointing up toward the blue N coil, I cannot follow dgm 1. I then must connect downward to the south coil ON THE FRONT COMMUTATOR on dgm 2. The difference is indicated in the names of the blue and red comm connection keys in the lower corners of the diagram, as they are reversed from diagram one, and also the colored comm segments are flip-flopped where the wires hook to the Comm.

                            Can't quite do the math on what this change is doing to directionality or whether I need to do like you are saying about switching the position of the N-S magnets to go along with the Comm switch. I try to rotate it in my mind and everything explodes. Must take a lot of practice to do brain CADS like Tesla did, I hear.

                            PS: A light went on. So with my reversal of my front/rear red/blue connections, I am really changing the +/- inputs too. And as you say this will maintain dgm 1 direction of rotation? I think I got by George!

                            OK I think I am filling in a blind spot in motor winding 101. When you put Blue for North on your diagrams, does that mean that connection takes the positive voltage connection?


                            Hello Sam,


                            I have always instructed to use the CONNECTING DRIVE SIDE of Shaft as the Positive Input Commutator as a REFERENCE.

                            That term is RELATIVE though, the side you decide to feed positive could be changed to bottom commutator (opposite to driving end of shaft)...and I believe that is ALL you have done here...If so, that will NOT affect the rotation sense nor the Coils Polarity for Pairs at all, You are just changing the way to feed through commutators the coils...as long as you are using the same wiring sequence from coils/pairs when you originally wound them from start to end, then rotation would be the same as originally conceived

                            But if you swap the way wires were supposed to be fed...then your rotor coils would be opposite in magnetic polarity...Rotation sense would be reversed.


                            Regards


                            Ufopolitics
                            Last edited by Ufopolitics; 02-27-2014, 07:02 PM.
                            Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                            Comment


                            • Reversing the Battery terminals reverses the current and changed direction

                              G'day Sampojo
                              I really had a problem trying to understand the same as what you are trying to understand
                              I have always applied the Negative from the top and the positive from the bottom and yet my motors always run the right way it all depends which way you wind the coils UFO said to me I should follow convention and that was HE always showed the Positive on the Top or Drive end of the motor.
                              In your posts above you only show changing/Reversing the wires so the current goes in the opposite direction and this is confusing because You still show the polarity of the coils the same you need to recognize that the polarity of the coils are also changedand therefore you cannot follow just what is happening.
                              I have here 2 drawings showing what happens when you change the direction of the current.
                              The first shows the Negative from the top/drive end of the motor here is wound to run CCW now runs in reverse


                              Notice where the commutator for P1 is in relation to the Brush and notice the polarity of the windings of P1

                              Now here we show what the motor looks like when you JUST swap the battery wires so NOW the positive is to the top/Drive end this is the way this motor is intended to go



                              The current being reversed changes the polarity of the windings of armature and that causes the motor to run in reverse.

                              This motor was wired to run CCW you can see the difference that just changing the polarity has as to where the armature is in relation to the Magnets when it fires when in reverse the motor is not so powerful

                              I hope my friend that this is of some help
                              Kindest regards


                              Kogs trying to help
                              Last edited by iankoglin; 02-28-2014, 10:04 PM. Reason: Correction

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                              • As you know that the mobile phone signal jammer can cut off the signals of the mobile phones and soon make it impossible to make phone calls or send messages. In this way when you need the peaceful condition and want to stay in it, you can just use the best mobile phone jammer to help you achieve your goal. And now as the technology develops with high speed the advanced 3g 4g jammer has come into the market and are well welcomed by the group of people who need the jammer product.
                                Last edited by DamionLiu; 03-04-2014, 10:28 AM.

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