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  • Originally posted by machinealive View Post
    Thing is, besides the priest patent, I want out of brushes as well. I gotta keep going with my builds, using magnets or closed coils on the rotor, instead of stator. Vive le telsa!
    I would like to study in depth this idea.

    Any conductor moving into a magnetic field will suffer a force which oppose the movement. This dragging force is the Lorentz Force, F =I•B•Length

    Wouldn't it be better to keep the wires static (stator) and put the magnets in rotation (rotor)?

    This way there won't be any dragging force in the wires due to the Lorent Force because the wires are now fixed on the stator.

    Please tell if this reasoning is right or maybe I am completely wrong.

    As far as I understand there are two effects opposing the current generation:

    1- The Lenz effect which produce a opposing magnetic field reducing the magnets field

    2- This dragging force (Lorentz Force)

    Regards

    Comment


    • G'day hanon1492
      You Asked the question
      Any conductor moving into a magnetic field will suffer a force which oppose the movement. This dragging force is the Lorentz Force, F =I•B•Length

      Wouldn't it be better to keep the wires static (stator) and put the magnets in rotation (rotor)?

      This way there won't be any dragging force in the wires due to the Lorentz Force because the wires are now fixed on the stator.

      Please tell if this reasoning is right or maybe I am completely wrong.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
      No matter where the magnets or wires are no matter which one is stationary, the movement of either bringing them close together or passing each other still has the same effect.
      Either the wire passes the magnet or the magnet passes the wire they still have the same effect.
      I hope this answers your question

      Kindest Regards

      Kogs just trying to help

      Comment


      • Just like Kogs wrote...

        Originally posted by hanon1492 View Post
        I would like to study in depth this idea.

        Any conductor moving into a magnetic field will suffer a force which oppose the movement. This dragging force is the Lorentz Force, F =I•B•Length

        Wouldn't it be better to keep the wires static (stator) and put the magnets in rotation (rotor)?

        This way there won't be any dragging force in the wires due to the Lorent Force because the wires are now fixed on the stator.

        Please tell if this reasoning is right or maybe I am completely wrong.

        As far as I understand there are two effects opposing the current generation:

        1- The Lenz effect which produce a opposing magnetic field reducing the magnets field

        2- This dragging force (Lorentz Force)

        Regards


        Hello Hanon,

        Just like Kogs wrote, it does not matter which is static or dynamic.

        The Lenz Effect is inherent to any coil being induced by cutting "A" Magnetic field, whether static or moving.

        The Lorentz "Dragging" Force, is nothing more than an extension or a consequence of the Lenz Effect. It is very obvious that two opposed fields WILL Always Attract...and that is the "dragging force". As well as it is also understood that connecting a load to the Induced Fields will close the loop, short circuiting the coils rising the current, just like a "Self Energizing"... therefore, increasing the magnetic field strength...so the dragging force will increase.

        Now relating to what Machine wrote, and you quoted:

        Originally Posted by machinealive
        Thing is, besides the priest patent, I want out of brushes as well. I gotta keep going with my builds, using magnets or closed coils on the rotor, instead of stator. Vive le telsa!
        I believe Machine is referring to the way new design Brushless AC Generators work, like Mecc Alte, for example, where the rotor has two closed or looped coils through diodes each, and they receive a permanent induction/polarization from static coils attached to running capacitors...We have discussed the possibility to use this design to also obtain motor action at same time other coils are induced by this closed-coils rotary stator.


        Kind Regards


        Ufopolitics
        Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

        Comment


        • Very Happy Holidays and Wishful Happy New Year

          Hello to @UFO and All our near and dear friends Very Happy Holidays and Wishful Happy New Year.

          As you stated it is very true:
          @All: Like I have written before, we could expand knowledge and development as our minds and possibilities allow for...no one is restricting anyone here to do so...on the contrary, I have always asked for it to be done...that is the only way to Success, working as a Team, and presenting all data and analysing it in the Open Source.

          Patents have killed progress all along their existence...Patents presents everything in the most "general" way in order to be "protected" from being copied or reproduced, what's called fraud...but, it happens that "fraud" is also a form to replicate them, in order to develop ideas and technology...which they prohibit as a "legal way to do it". That is why I support Open Source.




          Some while back (before I joined this forum) I was trying to replicate Don Smith high voltage OU setup.

          https://www.dropbox.com/s/tigzjwnf0t...20Build%20.jpg

          Then thinking back I realized that he showed open models that never did anything or power up. The ones that power up were boxed up or in a suitcase. I recalled once someone asked him if he could show what's in the suitcase. Don started saying he cannot do that because he has already signed non-disclosure contract with certain bodies.

          SADLY HE HAS LEFT THIS WORLD AND TOOK WITH HIM ALL HE KNEW.
          He was all the time preoccupied with millions of $$$$ of wealth which also deceived him.


          So now thinking back the stuff he showed was only partly correct with some items incorrectly placed to mislead.
          Happy to say non of that stuff over here at the ufopolitics r&d. We will get to our destination sooner or later. Although Edison is not among my top favourites however I did like him for the following him:
          After struggling to develop a viable electric light-bulb for months and months, Thomas Edison was interviewed by a young reporter who boldly asked Mr. Edison if he felt like a failure and if he thought he should just give up by now. Perplexed, Edison replied, "Young man, why would I feel like a failure? And why would I ever give up? I now know definitively over 9,000 ways that an electric light bulb will not work. Success is almost in my grasp." And shortly after that, and over 10,000 attempts, Edison invented the light bulb.

          That is the true nature of R&D. Sometimes it comes fast and at other times little later. One thing I really want to distance myself from individuals who do not back up their chit-chat with any attempted experiment tell others what to do.

          I had my fair share of setbacks and to top all that my old laptop that was connected to the dual pentagon goldmine motor rig had hard drive failure.

          So today I got another desktop computer and lcd monitor up and running.
          The rev counter was updated some couple of weeks ago.
          Hopefully now I/we will be able to gather data and analyse soon. Most of the present work also included really time spent on the instrumentation which is one time big investment of time factor.

          Anyway lets all us work towards our success in 2014. There is great power in unity.

          Warmest Regards ALL

          Lightworker1

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post

            The Lorentz "Dragging" Force, is nothing more than an extension or a consequence of the Lenz Effect. It is very obvious that two opposed fields WILL Always Attract...and that is the "dragging force".

            I am still in doubt about this. Note that the Lorentz Force is at right angle to the magnetic field and it will always appear no matter if current is flowing from left to right or from right to left. Therefore it is not related to two opposed field attracting each other. Lenz Law appears only in induced currents. Lorentz Force appears in any system with a charge moving into a magnetic field no matter if induced or not.

            I will keep on thinking about all this. Anyway, thanks for your comments

            Regards

            Comment


            • Lorentz Vectors of Force

              Originally posted by hanon1492 View Post
              I am still in doubt about this. Note that the Lorentz Force is at right angle to the magnetic field and it will always appear no matter if current is flowing from left to right or from right to left. Therefore it is not related to two opposed field attracting each other. Lenz Law appears only in induced currents. Lorentz Force appears in any system with a charge moving into a magnetic field no matter if induced or not.

              I will keep on thinking about all this. Anyway, thanks for your comments

              Regards
              Hello Hanon,

              I thought you were referring to a Dragging Force (Vector) resultant from opposed Magnetic Fields, and not the Lorentz Forces of a charged particle related to time and space displacement.

              I posted this Fig before related to those Lorentz Forces:

              [IMG][/IMG]


              Kind regards


              Ufopolitics
              Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

              Comment


              • I like fig 1 also

                Originally posted by MonsieurM View Post
                Just emphasizing the import of the second commutator (this Brazilian Jesuit astutely picked up on from maybe Tesla's patents?), which Ufo has shown as clearly the key in isolating coil BEMF and converting the CEMF to AEMF (A for assistive), the essential ingredient in a good axially wound DC motor design for the future, as I might point out that Midaz is using hopefully to give him the racer's edge! He is really laying it on the line...
                Last edited by sampojo; 12-29-2013, 06:37 AM.
                Up, Up and Away

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                  Hello Sam!



                  Positioning on brushes are relative, you could use their original positioning, if it was other than shown on diagram...the key is to start running the first pair (P1) WIRES to make contact wherever they be...
                  Hi Ufo, trouble following this without the commutators showing the connections. Is it pretty much the same as your P22/2 stator?



                  Not sure but this diagram seems to show a little timing offset too... with the P1 comm segment slightly off CW TDC of the N Stator... which may or may not be applicable to my 20Pole Baldor? The design of my Baldor will allow complete flexiblity in any offset desired as the brush position setting relative to the stators have no mechanical restrictions.

                  I see the N/S stator arrangement is shown differently, but the direction of rotation is still the same... Will anyone beside you ever be able to come up with asym winding?

                  thanks, Sam

                  Happy New Year!
                  Up, Up and Away

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by sampojo View Post
                    Hi Ufo, trouble following this without the commutators showing the connections. Is it pretty much the same as your P22/2 stator?



                    Not sure but this diagram seems to show a little timing offset too... with the P1 comm segment slightly off CW TDC of the N Stator... which may or may not be applicable to my 20Pole Baldor? The design of my Baldor will allow complete flexiblity in any offset desired as the brush position setting relative to the stators have no mechanical restrictions.

                    I see the N/S stator arrangement is shown differently, but the direction of rotation is still the same... Will anyone beside you ever be able to come up with asym winding?

                    thanks, Sam

                    Happy New Year!

                    Hey Sam,

                    Yes you are right, the P1 Comm Segment is kind off timing, considering rotation to be CW.

                    Now, all you've got to do is rotate the whole rotor CCW (in your mind of course, unless you have done this on a CAD Software) then you will realize that this set up (related to element chosen)is mainly based on repulsion from N/Rotor-N/Stator Bisectors. However, it will still rotate the way I had set or CW.

                    Now remember what I wrote before about this motors draining much less amperage if they run based on Attract Mode rather than repulse.


                    Kind Regards and Happy New Year for all!

                    Ufopolitics
                    Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                      Hello Hanon,

                      I thought you were referring to a Dragging Force (Vector) resultant from opposed Magnetic Fields, and not the Lorentz Forces of a charged particle related to time and space displacement.

                      I posted this Fig before related to those Lorentz Forces:

                      [IMG][/IMG]


                      Kind regards


                      Ufopolitics
                      Hello @Hanon, when referring to Hendrik Lorentz, one must keep in mind that we are not going to go far with this man H. Lorentz and his company. He is the culprit that led our world in a dead end direction (see some of the many references):


                      ...
                      Tom Bearden explains: The real problem is, of all things, the sadly flawed old electrical engineering model. That horrible model used today was put together by Oliver Heaviside and others in the 1880s after James Clerk Maxwell was already dead (in 1879). Today it is actually Heaviside's highly reduced vector equations, further severely reduced by Lorentz in 1892 and in 1900. Most EE's have never even seen Maxwell's actual theory (in quaternion-like mathematics) of 20 equations in 20 unknowns. They are lied to and told they are studying "Maxwell's theory", which actually is not taught in any of our universities.
                      ...

                      Simplification - Tom Bearden And 'Free Energy'*




                      and from ufopolitics.com (excellent website)


                      The Symmetrical Systems were the ones adopted by All EE (Electrical Engineering) Universities in the World since the fall of the 19th Century (1880-to late 1890’s), right after the death of Maxwell in 1879, the Heaviside Vectorial Equations started to suffer a “Process of Symmetrization” by Nobel Prize Scientist Hendrik Lorentz , financed by J.P Morgan and Thomas A. Edison…
                      Asymmetrical Systems were completely disregarded from further teachings in any Technological Center or Universities of the related fields in the World.

                      Lt. Colonel Thomas Bearden writes:

                      “H. A. Lorentz was the man who was elicited to do the necessary “symmetrization” with ease, thereby accomplishing exactly what Morgan decreed to his own advisors that must be done: Get rid of those Tesla systems capable of taking and freely using EM energy from the active medium. H. A. Lorentz (with the “t”) simply lifted and used what L. V. Lorenz (without the “t”) had already done.

                      For the deliberate “fixing” of the already sharply curtailed Heaviside equations, see H. A. Lorentz, “La Théorie électromagnétique de Maxwell et son application aux corps mouvants,” [The Electromagnetic Theory of Maxwell and its application to moving bodies], Arch. Néerl. Sci., Vol. 25, 1892, p. 363-552. [Also in H. A. Lorentz, Collected Papers, The Hague: Martinus Nijhoff, vol. 2, pp. 168-238, esp. p. 168.] This is the work that Lorentz cites later (in 1895) for his proof of the symmetrical regauging theorems (the two equations of symmetrical regauging).

                      This is the “symmetrization” (at the direction of J. P. Morgan) of the Heaviside equations that arbitrarily discarded all remaining asymmetrical Maxwellian systems – thus discarding all systems that receive excess EM energy freely from the “active medium” (active vacuum) and could use this free energy to power loads and themselves. With this “fix”, Morgan was assured that Tesla’s discovery of the active medium – and that EM energy could be extracted from it – would never be taught. (1)

                      All the Motors that we have access up to now are symmetrical.
                      Symmetrical Systems are Closed Systems that equals Zero in a “Balanced Equation” of Energy Conservation.
                      They balance by cancelling and constant reverse electromagnetic interactions.(Motors Related)
                      ...

                      UFOPOLITICS



                      Sadly like most, all the books and lectures I came across in my life made H. Lorentz look like a great man (which was one of the greatest LIES of all time). Only in last some 15 years I started to see some evidence of something beyond typical EE theory. These dark ones would have succeeded but except The Internet. The Internet helped lot of new enlightenments, among them The Linux, ELectro-Dynamics of the Energy from the Vacuum, Anti-Gravity, and so on.

                      Warmest regards and Wish All a Very Happy and Prosperous New Year

                      lightworker1

                      Comment


                      • BRAVO Lightworker,

                        Happy New Year everybody,

                        All the best Cornboy,

                        Comment


                        • Kogs Update

                          G'day UFO, and the rest of the Team

                          I have finished winding MYZY1020 1000w motor

                          I have loaded some pics here

                          Kogs Tricycle Build Photos by Kogs1 | Photobucket

                          I have to get some longer bolts to hold the ends together and because it needs about 8grams to balance it I need to send it about 500klms away to have it balanced and varnished I do not know when or how long that will be I will keep you all updated when I can. I just seem too far away from everything

                          @ Light My feelings exactly, keep us posted on your progress especially the Arduino

                          @ Midas, How is your Radiance driver going

                          @ Machine thanks for organizing the UFO P56 packages I will be winding mine soon cant wait to see your Huge motor/generator working

                          @ cornboy can't wait to see your Mag3

                          @ John Stone thanks for the Monster driver I have 3 of them working OK but each one when the pot is set at zero the LED just flickers, I have 30 Ohms on the gate resistors

                          @ Dana and Garry I really have to get into the Arduino using them to drive my motors.

                          @ The Rest of the Team its good to read all the posts and your help and to see your progress

                          @ UFO Thanks to you for not only starting these threads but for hanging in there so all of us above taking part, can continue to learn from you as you are an excellent teacher. Looking forward to see your latest motor running
                          I wish I could build a bit quicker so I could keep up

                          Kindest regards to you all


                          Kogs exercising his knee

                          Comment


                          • Happy New Year

                            @UFO and the Star Team

                            Here's to breaking barriers and achieving what others might deem impossible, good luck to all working on the projects.

                            @Kogs

                            That is a beautiful build my friend, I loved the pictures. Are those scooters direct drive or are they going to go through a gear box and then to the rear sprocket?? I have been thinking that gas powered motorcycles and automobiles have gear boxes because they don't have the torque that is needed to get them up to speed quickly. Electric motors have lots of torque for their relative weight. But would it save on the charge life of the batteries if they had a gear box? Just thinking ahead to a few projects that I have in mind.

                            Cheers

                            Garry

                            Comment


                            • Thats blowing the lid off

                              OK starting to stick, H. Lorentz, kiss of death. downloaded that quaternion stuff when it was posted. Have to put it up there with Fast Fourier transform, system mapping theory, now Maxwells real equations, something to try to learn before I die...

                              Here is an interesting video about N. Tesla. Opens the possibility that he let his discoveries die on purpose because they were too dangerous in the hands of the wrong people. Wardenclyffe supposedly functioned at about 8cps, the same frequency alpha waves in the brain operate at, perhaps meaning the same transmissions could be used to affect any population on the planet. Not to HAARP on things

                              The Missing Secrets Of Nikola Tesla
                              Up, Up and Away

                              Comment


                              • 15 pole 1 hp

                                Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                                Hello Kumar,

                                Thanks for being so kind and so patient!...and hoping/wishing you are feeling better of your health!

                                You are gonna need it to finish this Model...

                                Please find below the CAD Diagram for your P15 Two Wound Stators (I represented like solid magnetic blocks projecting their polarity towards Rotor/Armature, same as I do with permanent magnets...however, after you finish your armature...I will like for you to make more tests that would involve to Pulse those wound stators...

                                [IMG][/IMG]

                                In this Diagram, I am just presenting Pair One (P1), as it gives you more clarity to understand the Timing set up, related to the Start of Firing Brush-Commutator Elements shown in the red group of Four

                                First, Your new Asymmetric Design would have Fifteen Pairs of Coils (P15), where each coil in the pair would be connected in series between them, projecting their polarity as shown (Blue=North, Red=South)

                                Therefore, since your commutators are based on 60 elements each, you will be joining/bridging Four Elements per each Pair (60/15=4) on top and bottom commutators, aligned perfectly vertical in a straight alignment line (like all other Asymmetric Models)

                                Please observe each Coil Bisector Alignment related to Stators Bisectors...and also note the four joint group of commutator elements just STARTING to make contact with brush, according to Rotation "R". This is the strongest Firing-Timing alignment you could get out of this arrangement...maybe a few degrees here or there...that only in practical lab testing would tell you for real...


                                [IMG][/IMG]


                                Now, In this Second Diagram I am showing the other Two Pairs adjacent (right next) to P1...or P2 and P15.

                                According to Rotation "R", P15 is almost loosing contact (to be disconnected) from energizing Input Motor Brushes...to allow P1 to start entering into contact (at this time presented on Diagram, both Pairs, P1 and P15 would be "ON")...While P2 is on "Stand By" ready as "next in line" to establish contact.

                                Please learn to "see" Your Coils bisectors, even if not defined by a line...they all would be the Pole number Three (3), starting count from either side...(center pole of Five Total on Coil)...so, now, look again at P15 and P2 Bisectors NOT painted on this CAD...and relate them to Stators Bisectors Positioning...then you would realize that P2 Bisector is "under" or below from passing the North Stator Bisector, now it is "OFF"...But if it would be energized in this position...it will Counter/Oppose to Rotation "R"...taking away from Machine Torque and Speed.

                                On the contrary...P15 Bisector is passed beyond P1 Bisector...so this means P15 would be "assisting" P1 in favor of Rotation "R".

                                This Three Pairs together...will give you a better understanding of "Close and Start of your Pairs" in the total winding sequence... as also the Four Elements positioning-connected on Commutator for each related Pair.

                                Your new Asymmetric Motor would be a very strong and very fast Machine (much more than it was in Symmetric Winding)...and also would give you a great Output, since always more than one Pair would be connected to the Generator Brushes at 180º apart...

                                Your Motor type is categorized within the "Universal Motor Configuration"...and that means...that your nice looking Asymmetric Machine...would operate with AC and DC Currents...giving all of Us very interesting results with each different type of electric feed...

                                All I ask you in return...is to keep posting here your progress, for all of Us to enjoy...as, if possible...some pictures of your model.

                                Or else I would have to ask your son for the Pictures......Tell Him the Vishwaroop already send you the Diagram...so now is all in your hands to make it happen...

                                Kumar, you will be building a very interesting machine...and like I wrote before...please, do not touch your Stators windings!!...leave them just like they are now, just transform-modify your Armature/Rotor into Asymmetrical Type...but not the Stators (for now)...

                                Later on You could perform different types of Connections between Stators and Brushes...like Series between Stator/Motor...or Parallel...as you could also assist feeding to Stayors from Machine Output side...and so on and on...but finish rotor first...


                                Kind regards , Namaste


                                Ufopolitics
                                Dear Sir,

                                Namaste. Sorry for coming back to you very late. I did the rewinding almost 2 months back. but couldn't manage to come to you as i continued experimenting with it.
                                I started winding between pole 1 and pole 15 going right passing 15,14,13,12 and 11 clockwise. I took 20 turns of 23 SWG. Once the 20 turns were completed i took it anti clockwise from pole 1,2,3,4, and 5( here i did wrong. this is not as you suggested sir. you suggested 2,3,4,5 and 6). So my clockwise winding went as you suggested, but anticlockwise winding started one pole earlier and closed one pole earlier, though it covered 5 poles.

                                I mistook brush positioning also while giving you the specs. Foolishly I counted only one pole of stator( not axis) and mentioned they are 180 degree to stator poles. but they are 90 degree to stator pole axis. Sorry for this mistake sir.

                                My stator coil mfg specs are 230V and .4 Amp

                                Armature coils Mfg Specs 230V and 4 Amp

                                I bought a DC drive to run this motor.

                                After winding the armature ( sorry MY MISTAKE, not as suggested by you as i forwarded my winding by one pole on anticlockwise winding),I powered the stator coil from the drive i bought and i conneted brushes to 12V 7.5Amph battery. It RAN sir . It ran with about 120 rpm, though the torque was not good.

                                (Before this winding, i did the winding without keeping paper, out of anxiety to wind it quick, to protect it from shorting and all winding burnt out )

                                But when i tried to connect the drive to the armature, the winding atarted burning.

                                Regarding the original armture winding, it came with 300 turns (15 coils - each coil 20 turns) 23 SWG, but all connected in series. I didn't check the Resistance of it sir.

                                Then I bought a used .5 hp ac motor and coupled this 1 hp redesigned(though wrongly ) DC motor. When the stator was powered, the RPM was not getting effected. the voltage was coming, but not usable.

                                I did a very mature video shoot of it. It came for 5 min and 7 min. but delivering not that quality information.

                                But now i learned how to present it in videos as well sir.

                                And now I can make a DC motor sir( though can't Design).

                                Any difficult winding for others is not so to me

                                Dear sir, please guide me and i will not miss this time every minute detail.

                                I'm attaching the link of my uploaded photos here. Every photo is titled with serial number and detail of it.

                                ajaya999's's Library | Photobucket

                                here are my amature video links
                                1 - YouTube
                                2 - YouTube

                                Promise I'll improve the content quality of my videos sir hereafter

                                A very happy new year to you sir and to every one here.

                                Thanks and Namaste

                                Kumar

                                Comment

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