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  • Originally posted by esesenergy View Post
    never seen so many knowledgeable people so unwilling to help answer couple questions to a person trying to learn.
    G'day esesenergy
    Spend $10 buy a small Goldmine or similar 5 pole motor follow the instructions on rebuilding converting to an asymmetric motor and show your progress and describe your problems I am sure you will have a lot of help the active ones on these forums can only help you replicate and solve your problems If you just want to sit back and do nothing I am sure everyone here can do nothing for You
    Just try and you can be helped
    Kindest regards

    Kogs hobbling around after his Knee Replacement "OUCH"

    Comment


    • Asymmetrical_BLDC Part 1

      ASYMMETRICAL BRUSH LESS MACHINES

      INTRODUCTION

      It has been asked many times before...however, when the time will come I will develop and disclose the Asymmetrical Brush Less Motor...The Time is Now...

      Like in previous Presentations of a completely new Electrodynamic Models...I will start by the simplest construction to replicate...In this case I chose the Radio Shack Brushless Fan 120 mm...I will explain why.

      I have been following the design of this simple motor for a while...in its previous versions, the electronic circuitry and components were kind of complicated...while the winding method remained the same up to now.

      In previous generation, a single Hall Sensor (two legs) was surrounded by diodes, two transistors, and about three resistors...plus the Filtering small Caps.

      Now, thanks to the Electronics development into Micro IC's...We can get all of the above, except the two small caps in a single Chip, the SDC276:

      [IMG][/IMG]

      http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...Ta_vpy7eJk8b9A

      Above is the downloadable version of the Data Sheet.

      SDC276 has Four Legs, Positive (Vcc +), Negative(-) , Pin DO, Pin DOB...That's it.

      Its simple operation is Quoted below:

      The SDC276 is an integrated circuit which includes Hall sensor and output drive circuits. Its widely used in 2-phase brushless DC motor and fan. Its composed of power reverse protection circuit, high stable voltage regulator, Hall voltage generator, a differential amplifier, Schmitt trigger and open collector output (DO, DOB).

      When the south pole magnetic field is close to the IC marking surface and the magnetic flux density higher than operate point (BOP), the DO pin output will turn ON and the DOB pin output will turn OFF. When the north pole magnetic field close to the IC marking surface until the magnetic flux density higher than release point (BRP), the DO pin output will turn OFF and the DOB pin output will turn ON.
      Therefore, it is exactly the design we need for our Asymmetrical Conversion...This IC will NOT reverse feed, or creating a positive-negative square wave...instead, it will just Turn On one Pin, while the other is Off...and according to either North-South sweeping the face of the Sensor.

      In this Disclosure, I will be posting in Both Threads related to Asymmetrical BLDC...This one would be dedicated to Electromagnetic Interactions, Mechanical Design, timings, Basic Structures Configurations etc...while in the "My Motors..." thread, would be dedicated basically to the Electronic Designs and Enhancement of this simple circuit...in order to move into heavier and Bigger Machines.


      THE SYMMETRICAL BLDC:

      [IMG][/IMG]

      I must admit that this version of BLDC, with this configuration of Turning On-Off Coils is not as a "Symmetrical Catastrophic Electronic Collision Center" as all the other models still utilized in the market...mainly the ones dedicated to EV Propulsion...based on the "WYE (Y)" and DELTA Windings Modules.

      The main issue I find with this type...is its lack of power and speed, problem We will resolve with Asymmetrical Independent Coils-Pairs...like we did before...

      The winding of the Symmetrical BLDC is simple, just one long dual strand of wire...following a CW-CCW alternate sequence. They use two different color wires (Red and Gold) of very fine gauge (like a 36)...On Pin (Vcc +) Both wires are attached, then each have different terminal Pins DO and DOB.
      If You follow the two ending Pins towards coils, traveling to +, will realize that by turning on each Pin Independently will cause Electromagnet Reversal on the Four Poles according to Sensor Facing Polarity.

      In other Diagram Representation (Like We use all times) it will be something like below:

      [IMG][/IMG]

      The Outer N-S Circles denotes the changes at each Electromagnetic Salient Poles, while polarity from "Rotary PM Stators" is shown in front of sensor.

      This Design does not collide drastically electrons...however, it does reverses constantly the FLUX in the whole only Two Long Coils.

      The Two Electrolytic 2.2 uf/50V "Filtering" Capacitors are set in each Negative Output Pins in reverse fashion, (+ leg to Negative Pins) in order to collect all residual Radiant Energy left, after Flux canceling due to "All Coils" reversal. In our future Asymmetrical BLDC Machines...this would be our Output from each INDEPENDENT Pair-Coils when at off time would be exhausting HER...

      ABOUT THE GENERAL BLDC STRUCTURE/INTERACTIONS

      Stage 1: Sensor under North Field Density

      [IMG][/IMG]

      When the Sensor is having in front a North Pole (High Density)*, it generates an alternate Pole disposition as shown in Diagram above in all Four or more Poles.

      *If You notice, each pole have an indentation right at center, spreading the air gap on half way, while the other half have closer gap, this design, ensures that at rest position, PM Rotor will not fall in a "Borderline" between N-S, in which case No Pin would be On, Motor will not start.

      Stage 1: Sensor under South Field Density

      [IMG][/IMG]

      I am in the making of a video, along with the Prototype tests on all parameters to compare.

      The Original Symmetric Model Wires were utilized to wind the Asymmetrical Model in its entire length, to keep same resistance/impedance values per Coil.


      Regards to All


      Ufopolitics
      Last edited by Ufopolitics; 12-02-2013, 05:58 AM.
      Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

      Comment


      • Asymmetrical_BLDC Part 2

        Well...if the Symmetrical looks like this:

        [IMG][/IMG]

        Where All Coils are in series...then our Asymmetrical Spiral would be like this:

        [IMG][/IMG]

        I only have wound P1 and P2...half a Machine, just one sensor...and it does less Amp draw...and more RPM's and Torque than Original Symmetric...

        [IMG][/IMG]

        The Complete Model will have two IC Commutators, like represented above (same thing we did with our mechanical Dual Brush-commutator system)...each IC would handle (turn On-Turn Off) Two Pairs, in order not to overload just one side of the circuit...as also to maintain rotation compensated at 180.

        It would be understood this concept is completely "Modular" as it occurred in all previous P Series Asymmetrical Winding Machines...being expandable to many other number of poles configurations.

        We are just Pulsing/Collapsing Stationary Coils here like we did in my First Thread...so, it is also understood, we could derive Radiant Output from each Pair-Coil in their Off Times.

        Positive is common for all Coils.


        Regards to All


        Ufopolitics
        Last edited by Ufopolitics; 12-02-2013, 06:46 AM.
        Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

        Comment


        • The way I see it

          Hi UFO, your posts' get me thinking,
          The more poles we can add ,the easier it is to switch.
          With 2 fields you have flow in one direction then abruptly change to the other.
          With 4 you can change in half the time , but you only have half the time to create the opposing field. Half the strength.
          Am I even close?
          artv
          Last edited by shylo; 01-25-2014, 11:44 AM.

          Comment


          • Hello Shylo!

            Originally posted by shylo View Post
            Hi UFO, your posts' get me thinking,
            Hello Shylo,

            I am glad they get you thinking!...

            The more poles we can add ,the easier it is to switch.
            Well, the more poles we add the more robust and steady performance would be...

            Now, "easier to switch" depends on your arrangement and how many total pairs you would have...bare in mind that each IC is capable to switch Two Coils or Two Pairs at a time...

            With 2 fields you have flow in one direction then abruptly change to the other.
            With 4 you can change in half the time , but you only have half the time to create the opposing field. Half the strength.
            Am I even close?
            artv
            Have in mind PRIMARILY that We are NOT reversing flow PER EACH PAIR-COIL...We are firing overlapped sequences of INDEPENDENT Pairs-Coils, where each overlapped section is commonly wrapped within same pole core...that is different than reversing same coil, same wire...all in series like in Symmetry.

            The "Time On" is dictated by the length of Circumference of each N-S magnetic field sweeping through sensor...and not necessarily we need to constraint by the size of the real interacting magnets with poles...

            We will NEVER loose strength as long as We keep firing overlapped Pairs or Coils in a constant robust fashion...no matter how many there are in the total configuration.


            Cheers Arty


            Ufopolitics
            Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

            Comment


            • For example...

              Originally posted by shylo View Post
              Hi UFO, your posts' get me thinking,
              The more poles we can add ,the easier it is to switch.
              With 2 fields you have flow in one direction then abruptly change to the other.
              With 4 you can change in half the time , but you only have half the time to create the opposing field. Half the strength.
              Am I even close?
              artv
              Shylo,

              You are showing me a perfect example with that picture of a Sixteen Pole BLDC Outrunner...

              [IMG][/IMG]

              By the way, love the yellow flowers...

              And forget about that winding you have made there my friend.

              Sixteen (16) is divisible by Two(2)...and Four(4). So, if you wrap coils around Four Poles, you would have Four main Coils right?...Say You wrap first Two Coils in series, one CW other CCW...and let's call them "P1", and then, by jumping next pole you start another "P2", same exact config as P1...and so on...till you meet your "starting point" or P1...How many Pairs "P's" you have?

              Correct Answer: Sixteen Pairs, overlapped in between one pole displacement.

              Now, each IC Sensor would handle Two Pairs right?...right. So then Eight Sensors )spaced apart by 45 would be needed to handle Two Pairs each...or you could connect each Two Pairs in parallel at 180 from each others...and only need Four Sensors...it all depends upon your IC's capability on the Driver Side and the Total resistance you have per Pair.

              The only problem here...is that you will have to modify your little magnet outer casing to be just Four Magnetic Fields...N-S-N-S...normally in the typical symmetric BLDC the number of magnets is greater than the number of inner poles...so you should have a Bell of like Eighteen (18) small (size of each pole) magnets...right?


              Hope it gets you to think a bit more...


              Regards


              Ufopolitics
              Last edited by Ufopolitics; 12-03-2013, 02:24 AM.
              Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

              Comment


              • ASYMMETRIC BLDC VIDEO (Part 1)

                ASYMMETRIC BRUSHLESS PART 1 - YouTube
                Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                Comment


                • Number of poles

                  Hi UFO,
                  If I wrap my coils around 4 pole faces, all the wire that travels from 1-4 is just causing a lot of extra resistance .is it not?
                  It doesn't add to the magnetic field, it's just completes the path so electrons can flow in the coil.
                  The only part of the coil that does work is the part that cuts the lines of flux at a 90 degree angle , correct?
                  The case that my rotor came from has 4 magnets in it. When anyone of my coils are centered between 2 of the magnets, and I pulse that coil, it works on repulsion only, it throws the rotor forward , but with the disconnect of the supply , the reverse field created by disconnect , aids in rotation.
                  That's the way it should work , IF what they say is true, or maybe I should say correct.
                  I like your work, but I think there is too much resistance.
                  All that wire holding you back.
                  Definitely interested in that chip. though
                  I'm having a helluv a time making a commutator.
                  Will reed switches work?
                  Thanks for your time..........artv

                  Comment


                  • Nope...

                    Originally posted by shylo View Post
                    Hi UFO,
                    If I wrap my coils around 4 pole faces, all the wire that travels from 1-4 is just causing a lot of extra resistance .is it not?
                    It doesn't add to the magnetic field, it's just completes the path so electrons can flow in the coil.
                    The only part of the coil that does work is the part that cuts the lines of flux at a 90 degree angle , correct?
                    Hi Shylo,

                    You can NOT mix Concepts from Generation of Electricity through Induction...and Motor Electrodynamics...it is comparing Apples with Bananas.

                    In GENERATOR the Vertical wires are the ones who Induce electrical flow because of cutting perpendicularly the magnetic field from Exciters...That is Induction, Generation of Electricity, etc,etc
                    The "resistance" of those horizontal wires is not considered because the amount of Induction flow from both vertical sides (in just one turn/loop) is greater than...comprende?

                    However, one thing to keep in mind is, that the B Field of the Induced Coils is Generated by All wires, vertical Horizontal.

                    When it comes to MOTOR Electrodynamics , we are Building a Magnetic Field with our ENTIRE COIL, Including ALL WIRES wrapped in that LOOP to project a magnetic field, strong enough to Interact with the Static side. So here every single millimeter of wire counts in the creation and all properties of the future field. The Horizontal wires are in charge of the LENGTH of that Field...while the Vertical are in charge of the Height of Field, even the CURVATURE of Coil have to do with Field Volume into the 3D Space.


                    The case that my rotor came from has 4 magnets in it. When anyone of my coils are centered between 2 of the magnets, and I pulse that coil, it works on repulsion only, it throws the rotor forward , but with the disconnect of the supply , the reverse field created by disconnect , aids in rotation.
                    That's the way it should work , IF what they say is true, or maybe I should say correct.
                    I like your work, but I think there is too much resistance.
                    All that wire holding you back.
                    Definitely interested in that chip. though
                    I'm having a helluv a time making a commutator.
                    Will reed switches work?
                    Thanks for your time..........artv
                    Too much resistance?!... I have recommended all along all my threads, to keep around the One Ohm values on most of my designs...is that too much resistance to you?

                    Idk if it would work with reed switches...they are mechanical, never as fast as electronics...so, do not know up to what speed they would be able to keep up.


                    Take care



                    Ufopolitics
                    Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                    Comment


                    • Part 2

                      Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                      @UFO

                      I'm glad you made the supplementary video. I look forward to part 2!

                      Keep it Clean and Green

                      Midaz

                      Comment


                      • Mirror Image

                        Hi U, are the actions taking place in the coils to create motor rotation, not similar to coils being passed by a magnetic field ,to create power?
                        When I start thinking my mind goes in all directions.
                        artv

                        Comment


                        • Shylo...

                          Originally posted by shylo View Post
                          Hi U, are the actions taking place in the coils to create motor rotation, not similar to coils being passed by a magnetic field ,to create power?
                          When I start thinking my mind goes in all directions.
                          artv
                          Ok "S",

                          1-The "actions" taking place in the Coils to create motor rotation are "a Direct Creation of a Magnetic Field"...in ANY Motor, the Interacting coils with the static side, are receiving an external source feed, but, this feeding occurs in such a fashion...that fields will never get locked in by attraction...either turning off or reversing electrical flow, before reaching their higher density opposite fields.

                          2-Inert Coils (not energized from an external source) passing by a magnetic field creates an Electrical Flow that runs within that coil wires and could be taken out for use, however, while this occurs IF You add a load at the terminals of that "induced" coil...you are closing the circuit with that load...and in response, that coil uses that created energy to generate a magnetic field within(Self Feeding itself)...but, the only problem we all have...is that according to Lenz laws, the nature of that induced magnetic field is opposite to the one that coil was passing by.,..so NO Motor Action occurs...as both fields tend to lock in, due to attraction forces of different fields or N-S.

                          In General terms and resuming...
                          A-In the Creation of a Magnetic Field , no matter which case of the two above, the WHOLE COIL is the one in charge to create that field.
                          B-And when it comes to Induction, ONLY the VERTICAL WIRES cutting the magnetic field PERPENDICULARLY are the ones who produce electricity...or get Induced.

                          Do some more research on your own Arty, about this BASIC and Fundamental Concepts about Magnetism, they will be very useful for all your future projects.

                          Regards


                          Ufopolitics
                          Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                          Comment


                          • Bldc Four Phase Board

                            Hello,

                            This is how the Four Phase Asymmetrical BLDC would look like when I finish it:

                            [IMG][/IMG]

                            The Four PAIRS of Coils, P1, P2, P3 and P4 are Independently Driven or "Energized Negatively" by each IC's dual Output Pins.

                            Blue heavy lines represent North Coils projecting Fields while Red are South, projecting Outwards, toward Permanent Magnet Rotor, I am starting winding of each Pair by their North end terminal attached to each Positive terminal represented by the Red wires to Positive (I plan on keeping Positive Posts separated (One for each IC) for testing purposes, for now, as this will also could be utilized as a "Two Speed" build in feature)...While the Black wires coming out of each Red-South Coils are the Negative end of each pair attached to each IC Output.

                            This the way I will be firing coils by IC's Commands:

                            IC 1 (Bottom One) will be energizing/firing P1 and P2

                            IC 2 (Top One) will be energizing/firing P3 and P4

                            (Just as a reminder, the Original Symmetric Model were firing IN SERIES the Space that P1 and P3 are taking now, and in the second phase it was P2 and P4.)

                            On my Video I am showing just IC1 firing P1,P2

                            All Four Filter Electrolytic Caps would be grounded (Negative to Negative) and all their Positive (+) end will connect to each of the Four Outputs respectively.

                            Resistance on each Pair is exactly 28 Ohms, Turns have to be balanced according to area volume (Top Coils would have less turns than coils right at laminated core.)

                            I can NOT say anymore (Not because I have signed that NDA with Cornboy and Machine Alive... ) but, till further testing and a video would be released then.


                            Regards to All


                            Ufopolitics
                            Last edited by Ufopolitics; 12-07-2013, 04:28 AM.
                            Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                            Comment


                            • What's Going On??!!

                              Hello to ALL,

                              Could You guys tell me what is going on here?

                              I have not heard from MY BIG TIME REPLICATORS...MY FRIENDS?

                              What's going ON??!!


                              Let me remind Who AM Talking about...


                              Machine Alive?


                              \Cornboy555?


                              Hitby13kw?


                              Midaztouch?


                              DANA alias Prochiro??


                              Please, let me know at least everything is just fine...maybe busy or whatever...


                              Thanks, I really appreciate you all letting me know.


                              Warm regards


                              Ufopolitcs
                              Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                              Comment


                              • post # 5869

                                Hi UFO , sorry I haven't replicated any of your work, I would if I had the time and resources.
                                Also am curious about how strong the magnetic field has to be to operate that switch.
                                I tried to download the data sheet ,but it failed to load.
                                I've been trying to figure out from #5869 how it is supposed to work, but like I said "not the sharpest knife in the drawer"
                                Maybe everybody is waiting, I know I am, but still trying other things.
                                Will an increase in rpm cause failure in that switch?
                                Where can that switch be found in old junk equipment?
                                Everything I use is pretty much salvage, other than, my super caps and one battery.
                                Looking forward to your progress.
                                artv

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