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  • 20 Pole bosh

    Thanks UFO!

    I will probably put my motor core on the grill tonight and burn off all the resin to unwind the coils....sooo is there any benefit to the quad penta 20 pole? since the coils are more balanced....maybe closer to getting a motor running at constant speed at resonance despite load? also will both styles need the brushes to be adjusted a bit? I have been intrigued by the quad penta but if you say the bosh design looks better than i will go with that one. I do remember the 5 pole RS motor i did that was based on the penta design was a little tricky to run in reference to where the brushes were. Just the right adjustment and then it would take off...

    If there is any benefit you see fit by doing this type of motor and testing it let me know, i would feel up to the task....

    -warrensk

    Comment


    • Looking back in time...

      Originally posted by warrensk View Post
      Thanks UFO!

      I will probably put my motor core on the grill tonight and burn off all the resin to unwind the coils....sooo is there any benefit to the quad penta 20 pole? since the coils are more balanced....maybe closer to getting a motor running at constant speed at resonance despite load? also will both styles need the brushes to be adjusted a bit? I have been intrigued by the quad penta but if you say the bosh design looks better than i will go with that one. I do remember the 5 pole RS motor i did that was based on the penta design was a little tricky to run in reference to where the brushes were. Just the right adjustment and then it would take off...

      If there is any benefit you see fit by doing this type of motor and testing it let me know, i would feel up to the task....

      -warrensk
      Hello Warrensk,

      Just looking back in time...and reviewing my Diagrams, Models...etc...I just realized I wounded the 20 Poles BOSCH by grabbing just Four Poles...when I could have done it by grabbing Five (5) Poles per Coil, meaning Ten (10) per Pair...(2P=20/4=5 P per Coil)...I also realized it was the first bigger model I did before Imperial...So, now, I tell you to wind it by grabbing Five Poles per Coil and not Four...this difference would create a bigger enhancement as the Angular and Momentum, Throw Out Forces, would be much bigger than just a four pole coil set up.

      If You look at all other P Series designed afterwards...including Imperial, I used the Max Possible Poles division at the 360 Quadrant...Imperial have a total of 28 poles rotor...and each coil grabs Seven (7)...just because 28/4=7...

      The advantages of the Pentagon Design in General...is a very robust Torque, drawing very little energy to do its work on load...however, speed is not as great as the 20 poles, even grabbing just four poles per coil. This is due to smaller size coils per Pair (4P + 2P in the 20 Poles...and...Two and One (2P+1P) in the Five small motor shown below)

      Please watch video below...on a Five Pole direct drive drill...note speed is not that high...while torque is and won't stop till getting through 2X4 piece of Wood.

      DUAL PENTAGONS/550 MOTOR BODY TESTING - YouTube


      Kind Regards


      Ufopolitics
      Last edited by Ufopolitics; 10-29-2013, 07:32 PM.
      Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

      Comment


      • Reloading Tesla Electrodynamics...

        Hello to All,

        I would like to go over with You all, in detail, related to the way Nikola Tesla conceived and "transferred" the Interactions between Generator to Motors...He was able to make this possible ONLY , because His Systems were Open...just like our Asymmetric Machines...regardless of the type of currents involved...it is about A FLOW...a flow of currents generated at A MACHINE and carried to ANOTHER Machine Via Electric Connections.

        It would be clearly understood that NONE of the Symmetrically Closed Systems we all have today...could do this exchanges and transfers of currents -in a "Progressive Shifting Fashion"- between Motors and Generators or Combined Assemblies of both.

        The way We all have it now...is just by "Summing" ALL power produced at an Enclosed WYE or Delta Wound AC Generator...then sending all this "previously added" energy to Also another Enclosed Wound Motor...to be crashed within Machine into Heat and Non accurate driven Rotation.

        The Main Reason why I want to go over this Transferring of Independent "Progressive Shifting" as He called it...it is basically because We can also reproduce this same effects with our Machines...but greatly increased. Therefore this Old, but Basic Tesla knowledge is highly required to understand further circuits and tests We will be performing...

        I believe it would be enough by "Decoding" just One of Tesla Patents related to this Effect, in order to get the Main idea...I have chosen Patent 381,968 ...In that link all Original Images are clearly available in very nice sizes as also downloadable...In Tesla Universe the text and Images are also clear but not downloadable.

        I have color coded the Connecting Wires as also the corresponding Coils...however, the colors does not mean Polarity whether Magnetic or Electrical...remember, We are referring to AC here...so polarities are constantly alternating.

        FIG 13, 14

        [IMG][/IMG]

        Nikola Tesla's description on above Fig 13-14:

        Fig. 13 is a diagrammatic illustration of a motor and a generator constructed and connected in accordance with my invention. Fig. 14 is an end view of the generator with its field-magnets in section. The field of the motor M is produced by six magnetic poles, G' G', secured to or projecting from a ring or frame, H. These magnets or poles are wound with insulated coils, those diametrically opposite to each other being connected in pairs so as to produce opposite poles in each pair. This leaves six free ends, which are connected to the terminals T T T' T' T'' T''. The armature, which is mounted to rotate between the poles, is a cylinder or disk, D, of wrought-iron, mounted on the shaft a. Two segments of the same are cut away, as shown. The generator for this motor has in this instance an armature, A, wound with three coils, K K' K'', at sixty degrees apart. The ends of these coils are connected, respectively, to insulated contact-rings e e e' e' e'' e''. These rings are connected to those of the motor in proper order by means of collecting-brushes and six wires, forming three independent circuits. The variations in the strength and direction of the currents transmitted through these circuits and traversing the coils of the motor produce a steadily-progressive shifting of the resultant attractive force exerted by the poles G' upon the armature D, and consequently keep the armature rapidly rotating. The peculiar advantage of this disposition is in obtaining a more concentrated and powerful field. The application of this principle to systems involving multiple circuits generally will be understood from this apparatus.
        The Generator utilized on the Right produces AC Sine waves apart by Sixty Degrees (60)...and in order that this progressive shifting works precisely with Induction Motor on Left...Nikola Tesla had chosen Motor with Three Independent Pairs of Coils set apart by 180, and Pairs apart by 60 (I have colored Phases on Generator and Motor with Red Green and Blue) ...Pairs projecting always opposite polarities between them, since they are wound CW and CCW...so, no matter the Alternate Current changes...they will always be opposite facing rotor.

        FIG 15

        [IMG][/IMG]


        Nikola Tesla's description on above Fig 15:

        Referring, now, to Figs. 15 and 16, Fig. 15 is a diagrammatic representation of a modified disposition of my invention. Fig. 16 is a horizontal cross-section of the motor. In this case a disk, D, of magnetic metal, preferably cut away at opposite edges, as shown in dotted lines in Fig. 15, is mounted so as to turn freely inside two stationary coils, N' N'', placed at right angles to one another. The coils are preferably wound on a frame, O, of insulating material, and their ends are connected to the fixed terminals T T T' T'. The generator G is a representative of that class of alternating-current machines in which a stationary induced element is employed. That shown consists of revolving permanent or electro-magnet, A, and four independent stationary magnets, P P', wound with coils those diametrically opposite to each other being connected in series and having their ends secured to the terminals t t t' t'. From these terminals the currents are led to the terminals of the motor, as shown in the drawings. The mode of operation is substantially the same as in the previous cases, the currents traversing the coils of the motor having the effect to turn the disk D. This mode of carrying out the invention has the advantage of dispensing with the sliding contacts in the system.
        Further on Tesla comments about Fig 15 and Fig 17...

        In the particular construction shown in Fig. 15, or in others constructed on a similar plan, the number of alternating impulses resulting from one revolution of the generator armature is double as compared with the preceding cases, and the polarities in the motor are shifted around twice by one revolution of the generator-armature. The speed of the motor will, therefore, be twice that of the generator. The same result is evidently obtained by such a disposition as that shown in Fig. 17, where the poles of both elements are shifted in opposite directions.

        To be Continued next...
        Last edited by Ufopolitics; 10-30-2013, 02:43 AM.
        Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

        Comment


        • to insulated contact-rings e e e' e' e'' e''. These rings are connected to those of the motor in proper order by means of collecting-brushes and six wires, forming three independent circuits. The variations in the strength and direction of the currents transmitted through these circuits and traversing the coils of the motor produce a steadily-progressive shifting of the resultant attractive force exerted by the poles G' upon the armature D, and consequently keep the armature rapidly rotating.
          thank you UFO for Adding a new dimension of understanding Tesla's Patent

          sorry for intruding while you are Flowing

          just that insulated contact-rings e e e' e' e'' e''..... are a perfect match for another version of Tesla's valvular Conduit discussed in another thread

          http://www.energeticforum.com/242263-post636.html
          Last edited by MonsieurM; 10-30-2013, 01:57 AM.
          Signs and symbols rule the world, not words nor laws. -Confucius.

          Comment


          • Reloading Tesla Electrodynamics...2

            In this part I will show the last Embodiment based on the same principle, a bit more complex on the Motor side...just because this motor is all based on Coils...no solid steel drum or disc to rotate based on "following an Attraction"...but based on real, face to face magnetic interactions.

            FIG 17, 18 and 19 ORIGINAL BLACK and WHITE


            [IMG][/IMG]

            Above is the Original Diagrams from Patent...and below I will be displaying My Color Coded and also completed the Circuit on Both Machines, Motor and Generator.

            [IMG][/IMG]

            Nikola Tesla description on above Diagrams/Models:


            In the forms of motor above described only one of the elements, the armature or the field-magnet, is provided with energizing-coils. It remains, then, to show how both elements may be wound with coils. Reference is therefore had to Figs. 17, 18, and 19. Fig. 17 is an end view of such a motor. Fig. 18 is a similar view of the generator with the field-magnets in section, and Fig. 19 is a diagram of the circuit-connections. In Fig. 17 the field-magnet of the motor consists of a ring, R, preferably of thin insulated iron sheets or bands with eight pole pieces, G', and corresponding recesses, in which four pairs of coils, V, are wound. The diametrically opposite pairs of coils are connected in series and the free ends connected to four terminals, w, the rule to be followed in connecting being the same as hereinbefore explained. An armature, D, with two coils, E E', at right angles to each other, is mounted to rotate inside of the field-magnet R. The ends of the armature-coils are connected to two pairs of contact-rings, d d d' d', Fig. 19. The generator for this motor may be of any suitable kind to produce currents of the desired character. In the present instance it consists of a field-magnet, N S, and an armature, A, with two coils at right angles, the ends of which are connected to four contact-rings, b b b' b', carried by its shaft. The circuit-connections are established between the rings on the generator-shaft and those on the motor-shaft by collecting brushes and wires, as previously explained. In order to properly energize the field-magnet of the motor, however, the connections are so made with the armature coils or wires leading thereto that while the points of greatest attraction or greatest density of magnetic lines of force upon the armature are shifted in one direction those upon the field-magnet are made to progress in an opposite direction. In other respects the operation is identically the same as in the other cases cited. This arrangement results in an increased speed of rotation. In Figs. 17 and 19, for example, the terminals of each set of field-coils are connected with the wires to the two armature-coils in such a way that the field-coils will maintain opposite poles in advance of the poles of the armature.
            As I have underlined Tesla's words above to demonstrate on my Colored Drawing that the Generator Armature...and the Motor Armature or Rotors Coils of both Machines are connected opposite while the Static Fields on Motor are connected directly as Generator Armature Coils...this -as Tesla Explains- produces a much faster shifting in speed of Motor, as they always would be creating repulsion-attraction forces between them.

            I have just added the connections from inner hollow shafts from both Machines to their respective Armature or Rotor Coils...for a better understanding of the Complete Circuit.

            On a "side note"...I was fascinated by this Designs from Nikola Tesla...they clearly show how We can use our generators to become a "Driver"...and at the same time a Feeder of the required power to spin our Motors...The Principle is simply shown in not so clever designs on this Patents...not so many poles and Pairs like I have displayed so far...but in the simplicity is where we can learn the very Basic Idea behind this wonderful Concept.

            Please, do not allow that the fact that AC is shown here...could become a limitation at all, in order to expand this same principles to our DC Machines...


            Warm Regards to All


            Ufopolitics
            Last edited by Ufopolitics; 10-30-2013, 02:22 AM.
            Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

            Comment


            • Oui Monsieur M...

              Originally posted by MonsieurM View Post
              thank you UFO for Adding a new dimension of understanding Tesla's Patent

              sorry for intruding while you are Flowing

              just that insulated contact-rings e e e' e' e'' e''..... are a perfect match for another version of Tesla's valvular Conduit discussed in another thread

              http://www.energeticforum.com/242263-post636.html
              Yes, Monsieur M, however, here Tesla refers to "Continuous Slip Rings" where brushes ride on, in order to transfer power through...

              Regards


              Ufopolitics
              Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                Hello to All,

                I would like to go over with You all, in detail, related to the way Nikola Tesla conceived and "transferred" the Interactions between Generator to Motors...He was able to make this possible ONLY , because His Systems were Open...just like our Asymmetric Machines...regardless of the type of currents involved...it is about A FLOW...a flow of currents generated at A MACHINE and carried to ANOTHER Machine Via Electric Connections.

                It would be clearly understood that NONE of the Symmetrically Closed Systems we all have today...could do this exchanges and transfers of currents -in a "Progressive Shifting Fashion"- between Motors and Generators or Combined Assemblies of both.

                The way We all have it now...is just by "Summing" ALL power produced at an Enclosed WYE or Delta Wound AC Generator...then sending all this "previously added" energy to Also another Enclosed Wound Motor...to be crashed within Machine into Heat and Non accurate driven Rotation.

                The Main Reason why I want to go over this Transferring of Independent "Progressive Shifting" as He called it...it is basically because We can also reproduce this same effects with our Machines...but greatly increased. Therefore this Old, but Basic Tesla knowledge is highly required to understand further circuits and tests We will be performing...

                I believe it would be enough by "Decoding" just One of Tesla Patents related to this Effect, in order to get the Main idea...I have chosen Patent 381,968 ...In that link all Original Images are clearly available in very nice sizes as also downloadable...In Tesla Universe the text and Images are also clear but not downloadable.

                I have color coded the Connecting Wires as also the corresponding Coils...however, the colors does not mean Polarity whether Magnetic or Electrical...remember, We are referring to AC here...so polarities are constantly alternating.

                FIG 13, 14

                [IMG][/IMG]

                Nikola Tesla's description on above Fig 13-14:



                The Generator utilized on the Right produces AC Sine waves apart by Sixty Degrees (60)...and in order that this progressive shifting works precisely with Induction Motor on Left...Nikola Tesla had chosen Motor with Three Independent Pairs of Coils set apart by 180, and Pairs apart by 60 (I have colored Phases on Generator and Motor with Red Green and Blue) ...Pairs projecting always opposite polarities between them, since they are wound CW and CCW...so, no matter the Alternate Current changes...they will always be opposite facing rotor.

                FIG 15

                [IMG][/IMG]


                Nikola Tesla's description on above Fig 15:



                Further on Tesla comments about Fig 15 and Fig 17...




                To be Continued next...


                Thanks Heaps UFO, your interpreting and colour coding, of these patent drawings, sure helps me understand.

                One Question, about drawings UFO, The N & S poles shown on the generator drawings as "G", would they have been permanent magnets, or electromagnets?.

                Warm Regards Friend, Cornboy.

                Comment


                • Hey UFO,tried to edit my post to say figure 14 & 18, but it wouldn't go through.
                  Last edited by Cornboy 555; 10-30-2013, 05:59 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Our Progressive Shifting...

                    Hello to All,

                    I would like to go over briefly...on the way our Asymmetric Machines achieve rotation...I have based this Analysis on a Four Stator Configuration...since it is the more "complete" when it comes to view the Four 360 Quadrants...

                    [IMG][/IMG]

                    A representation in General, of the way (basically) on how Asymmetric Machines achieve Rotation, not entering into specific details as number of poles or Pairs disposition.

                    We have in the center area the Commutator and Brushes 1,2,3 and 4...

                    On the Area where Coils are "executing" their Interactions with respective Stators....I have drawn Four curved Shaded Areas per each Quadrant...1,2,3 and 4, rising straight at Brush Line, where the "ON" text is displayed...and an Arrow comes out from this ON side to fade-diminish at the curve downside. This is the way I am expressing how the South-Red Area 1 fades out or Fields start collapsing before reaching the following and opposite Stator Bisector (N)...and so on with the rest of Interactions.

                    Apparently this Picture looks very Symmetrical...but it is not, as I will refresh the way Interactions take place...

                    Brush 1 Energizes South Quadrant 1...But it also Energizes North Quadrant 2...because of the Pairs design...remember?...or, depending upon structuring disposition it could do instead North Quadrant 4...but we will do it as a progressive way...meaning Quadrant 2...

                    So Brush 3 will Energize South Quadrant 3 and North Quadrant Four (4)...something similar to Pair 1 and Pair 15 in Imperial P56 Body...right?

                    Now, Brushes 2 and 4 are reversed Input because they reverse "naturally" at Output (when not energized from external source)...But, getting back to Quadrant activation by Brushes...Brush 2 will Energize North Quadrant 2 and South Quadrant 3...As Brush 4 will activate Quadrants N4 and S1...

                    This way Interactions, whenever ALL Gates are Energized...embrace each others having -at least- one common coils between them.

                    Now, I would like You to "practice" an exercise "picturing in your mind" on how interactions will "shift" when we Pulse each Brush set (1.2.3 and 4) with our Quad Pulsers in the sequential order as described above...

                    It will be something like...

                    Brush1>Q1+Q2
                    Brush2>Q2+Q3
                    Brush3>Q3+Q4
                    Brush4>Q4+Q1

                    Right?

                    Now we all realize that this Sequential Order occurs in a very short period of time...as only One Pair or Maximum Two Pairs (whenever fall in contact two elements from comm with brush)... are activated per firing (ON) time per Brush...

                    Later on...this "Scenario" will get a bit more complicated ...an this is all basic knowledge that we all should know pretty well by now...I am just refreshing it and simplifying it with this Diagram...

                    Hope it is all clear.


                    Regards to All


                    Ufopolitics

                    EDIT 1: I want make sure you All understand there is a big difference between the shaded area represented here as Quadrants and Individual Coils in the Pair...The Quadrant is an Area where ALL Coils from the Pairs pass by through Time...Turning ON and OFF for the duration of the Curve within the 90 section.
                    Last edited by Ufopolitics; 10-30-2013, 06:45 AM.
                    Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cornboy 555 View Post
                      Hey UFO,tried to edit my post to say figure 14 & 18, but it wouldn't go through.
                      I am glad you understand it better in colors...Cornboy,

                      Related to your question...Tesla wrote:

                      The generator for this motor may be of any suitable kind to produce currents of the desired character. In the present instance it consists of a field-magnet, N S, and an armature, A,
                      Now related to the Gen in FIG 15, Tesla writes it could be either one...magnet or electromagnet...the main point is about the number of Poles in the Generator Armature...and its relation with Motor configuration.




                      Warm regards


                      Ufopolitics
                      Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                      Comment


                      • sooo....to reiterate...

                        Hello UFO,

                        I will refer to the motor that we pulse as M1 and the motor attached to generator output as M2.....

                        We are going to take our output from generator brushes (from M1), depending on which brushes are pulsed....and put the generator output into a separate "motor" (M2) consisting of a toroid that then turns an armature around....as the armature turns it induces current in other coils that we then put back into our generator side of the motor (M1)...or the coils right before they hit generator stage?


                        Since the phase is "shifted" it will always induce current into the coils just before they hit the generator time phase (in M1)? This assists rotation from M2 into M1 by creating "independent" circuits/coils that are not electrically attached to generator output?

                        This is a very interesting concept I am trying to wrap my head around....please let me know if I am on the right track...I will wait eagerly for more information and illumination.

                        Thanks for posting!

                        warrensk

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                          Yes, Monsieur M, however, here Tesla refers to "Continuous Slip Rings" where brushes ride on, in order to transfer power through...

                          Regards


                          Ufopolitics
                          Indeed different name .... same function

                          i was wondering where was the corresponding piece to the Valvular conduit .... in his other patents , now i know .... Thanks UFO
                          Signs and symbols rule the world, not words nor laws. -Confucius.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by warrensk View Post
                            Hello UFO,

                            I will refer to the motor that we pulse as M1 and the motor attached to generator output as M2.....

                            We are going to take our output from generator brushes (from M1), depending on which brushes are pulsed....and put the generator output into a separate "motor" (M2) consisting of a toroid that then turns an armature around....as the armature turns it induces current in other coils that we then put back into our generator side of the motor (M1)...or the coils right before they hit generator stage?


                            Since the phase is "shifted" it will always induce current into the coils just before they hit the generator time phase (in M1)? This assists rotation from M2 into M1 by creating "independent" circuits/coils that are not electrically attached to generator output?

                            This is a very interesting concept I am trying to wrap my head around....please let me know if I am on the right track...I will wait eagerly for more information and illumination.

                            Thanks for posting!

                            warrensk
                            Hello Warrensk,

                            It is kind off...but not quite the main idea...

                            What we need to achieve...is a Generator that -when rotated- sends out a "Sequential Progressive Shifting" outputting from Gate 1, 2, 3 and 4, then to start at G 1 same sequence again...connected in "orderly fashion" to Motor Gates 1,2,3 and 4...to "execute" rotation...get it?

                            Now, the success would be to make each Generator shifting or "Induction"...per Gate, to be much greater than just one or two Pairs that would take place at Motor end ...in order that a minimum turn from Generator would build enough energy to create a robust sequential rotation at Motor...

                            I want to achieve that just One "slow" Turn of Generator make a "few" strong and fast turns at Motor...imagine that?...

                            Hope You understand this "hint" ...

                            Tesla gave Us this Hint...back since 1888...and then "They" said ...it will not work...



                            Warm Regards


                            Ufopolitics
                            Last edited by Ufopolitics; 10-31-2013, 12:37 AM.
                            Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                            Comment


                            • About "Reloading" Tesla Electrodynamics...

                              Hello to All,

                              On my latest posts I have been displaying some of Nikola Tesla Methods and Configurations on Electrodynamics...and, before I started this Posts...I thought about opening a New Thread, just dedicated to this Material...however, all of it is Directly related to the way our future Asymmetric Machines would be...from connections, electromagnetic interactions and even, some changes to the way we see the cores-laminations of all our existing Generators and Motors of "Today"...

                              I believe it is very important to have a complete domain to this knowledge, before proceeding to New Structures.


                              Sincerely


                              Ufopolitics
                              Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                                Hello to All,

                                On my latest posts I have been displaying some of Nikola Tesla Methods and Configurations on Electrodynamics...and, before I started this Posts...I thought about opening a New Thread, just dedicated to this Material...however, all of it is Directly related to the way our future Asymmetric Machines would be...from connections, electromagnetic interactions and even, some changes to the way we see the cores-laminations of all our existing Generators and Motors of "Today"...

                                I believe it is very important to have a complete domain to this knowledge, before proceeding to New Structures.


                                Sincerely


                                Ufopolitics


                                Thanks UFO, it would seem that Mr Tesla, put pieces of a larger puzzel, scattered in all his patents, and combined is a description of his work.

                                I do believe UFO, that you can help us all, see these ideas more Clear, and Thank You for this help.

                                Warm Regards Cornboy.

                                Comment

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