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  • Troubleshooting "Diagnosis 1"

    Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
    Hello my Friend,

    Yes, indeed they are swapped/rotated from my original Diagram...so, the Troubleshooting goes to "Diagnosis 3"

    Ufopolitics

    UFO,

    Many thanks for all the work you put into the new Graphics you supplied to help resolve the issue.

    Even though my trouble was a diagnosis 3 when opening it up, thought we would take it down to the core so others could see what to look for, reference https://www.dropbox.com/s/ao5j9mvj8ovlpt1/SAM_0074.JPG

    You can see that the center of the red commentator pin on both ends of the shaft form a line in between two poles of the rotor. Is this correct?

    Regards

    Hitby13kw

    Comment


    • That is correct

      Originally posted by Hitby13kw View Post
      UFO,

      Many thanks for all the work you put into the new Graphics you supplied to help resolve the issue.

      Even though my trouble was a diagnosis 3 when opening it up, thought we would take it down to the core so others could see what to look for, reference https://www.dropbox.com/s/ao5j9mvj8ovlpt1/SAM_0074.JPG

      You can see that the center of the red commentator pin on both ends of the shaft form a line in between two poles of the rotor. Is this correct?

      Regards

      Hitby13kw
      Hello Hitby13kw,

      Yes, that is correct Hitby...and I can see the alignment is also perfect!

      Now, where the confusion could arise, as developing in a possible error...is the "location" of that slot where the commutator element line runs by...related to the corresponding Pair that will be triggered/turned on by it.

      Here it is (I have already displayed on My Diagnosis and Troubleshooting Guide post previously)

      [IMG][/IMG]

      The exact location is between the second and third pole...or the Second Slot of the South Coil in the Pair from left to right.


      Now, this is VERY Important to do it EXACTLY HERE...or then...in order to achieve a very good timing...major modification of the Brush boards would have to be done.

      I explained that part in detail on my Imperial Winding Tutorial Part One at the beginning of video:

      Asymmetrical Winding Part 1 - YouTube


      Regards


      Ufopolitics
      Last edited by Ufopolitics; 04-08-2013, 03:36 AM.
      Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

      Comment


      • Hi UFO,

        I got a major problem, please help me out.

        I used a 7.4volt Li-po battery to run my motor(12V 12COMM TORQMASTER). When I short-circuit the GEN. The motor was slowing down instead of speeding up.(I had already double-checked the wiring and connection, no problem)

        There's some possibilities

        Possibility 1: The M(motor) was already Ev=Ea+Ec. Short-circuiting the G(generator) will kill the Ev

        Possibility 2:The rated power is 12V and full RPM at rated power is 3000RPM. I used 7.4 volt to run the motor. So it's too slow to"convert witches in princesses"

        Possibility 3:Electricity generation COP>1 can only achieved by "face to face connection" otherwise it may cause strange effect.

        Regards
        Last edited by Ace_Propulsion; 04-08-2013, 02:48 PM. Reason: TORQMASTER

        Comment


        • Ace
          try this
          WTF IS THE WITCH Photo by ufopolitics | Photobucket

          Do not short output wires.
          I believe what UFO wanted is not to short anything but to set it up as we did the toy motor. Maybe not exactly like the above diagram but similar. While on this site look for his other variations of this motor to test with.
          Dana
          Last edited by prochiro; 04-08-2013, 05:58 PM. Reason: Add statement
          "Today's scientist have substituted mathematics for experiments and they wander off through equation after equation and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality."
          Nikola Tesla

          Comment


          • Generator NOT to be Shorted!

            Originally posted by Ace_Propulsion View Post
            Hi UFO,

            I got a major problem, please help me out.

            Hello Ace, I will try my best...

            I used a 7.4volt Li-po battery to run my motor(12V 12COMM TORQMASTER). When I short-circuit the GEN. The motor was slowing down instead of speeding up.(I had already double-checked the wiring and connection, no problem)
            I have no idea why you want to short the Generator Output?...and YES, if you do so, it is very normal Machine will slow down...and probably overheat with time.

            This Machines have 50-50 Motor Generator, not even a 1% above...so, shorting Gen is like having a Gen Head at Full Surge Power Output...and expect a 50% Prime Mover will make it?...no it will NOT.


            What I meant was to jump "rear/bottom" terminals meaning one from motor one from gen...then feed from the other two on top, again, this is splitting Motor Generator to have B EMF working on our side.

            The other connection would be to feed from "NORMAL" Input and still jump bottom terminals....then read voltage from Top two terminals.

            There's some possibilities

            Possibility 1: The M(motor) was already Ev=Ea+Ec. Short-circuiting the G(generator) will kill the Ev

            Possibility 2:The rated power is 12V and full RPM at rated power is 3000RPM. I used 7.4 volt to run the motor. So it's too slow to"convert witches in princesses"

            Possibility 3:Electricity generation COP>1 can only achieved by "face to face connection" otherwise it may cause strange effect.

            Regards

            I will display a diagram and detailed explanation later on...no time now...sorry


            Regards



            Ufopolitics
            Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

            Comment


            • Hello Ace
              Do you understand now, if not let me know. When you do get it correct you may be happier with more voltage as UFO said, up to 36 volts, testing as you raise voltage. Then, my friend, you may like to try pulsing that pig.
              We are just making sure you got it running good.
              Dana
              "Today's scientist have substituted mathematics for experiments and they wander off through equation after equation and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality."
              Nikola Tesla

              Comment


              • 2 week hiatus

                taxes and other trouble. Light at the end of the tunnel up ahead. So I would like to try some of the diode hookups Ufo recommended, but when I hook up my dual pentagon RS prime mover to run my double rotor, it gets hot pretty quick, at 12v under load, looks like the commutator, maybe the same kind of issue as the big imperial boys I will look into a lower voltage hookup. But what I am wondering is if there is a bigger design issue, where the resistance is just too low for the commutator?

                Likewise on my 10 pole project, I am wondering about the same issue. Its 24awg original equipment. I have some aluminum magnet wire I salvaged, 24awg I am eyeballing. 42ohm/1000' vs copper 26ohm/1000'. 26awg copper is about the same as 24awg aluminum. Seems I can only get about 8' of 24 awg wire on the half coil and reasonably expect to be able completely wind a full coil before running out of room, putting a coil resistance at about .4 ohm for copper. wow, low

                looking at copper 26awg I think I can get 50% more wire length, say 12' per half coil, or about 1.5ohms per full coil.

                So Ufo, will I be able to run at a higher voltage with the smaller resistance and not be stuck at toy voltage ranges if I use at least the same awg as the original? Have you ever had to downsize and go to a higher AWG?

                Think I will work on my brush plates as I think this over.

                thanks, Joe
                Last edited by sampojo; 04-09-2013, 01:55 AM.
                Up, Up and Away

                Comment


                • Go Higher...

                  Originally posted by sampojo View Post
                  taxes and other trouble. Light at the end of the tunnel up ahead. So I would like to try some of the diode hookups Ufo recommended, but when I hook up my dual pentagon RS prime mover to run my double rotor, it gets hot pretty quick, at 12v under load, looks like the commutator, maybe the same kind of issue as the big imperial boys I will look into a lower voltage hookup. But what I am wondering is if there is a bigger design issue, where the resistance is just too low for the commutator?

                  Likewise on my 10 pole project, I am wondering about the same issue. Its 24awg original equipment. I have some aluminum magnet wire I salvaged, 24awg I am eyeballing. 42ohm/1000' vs copper 26ohm/1000'. 26awg copper is about the same as 24awg aluminum. Seems I can only get about 8' of 24 awg wire on the half coil and reasonably expect to be able completely wind a full coil before running out of room, putting a coil resistance at about .4 ohm for copper. wow, low

                  looking at copper 26awg I think I can get 50% more wire length, say 12' per half coil, or about 1.5ohms per full coil.

                  So Ufo, will I be able to run at a higher voltage with the smaller resistance and not be stuck at toy voltage ranges if I use at least the same awg as the original? Have you ever had to downsize and go to a higher AWG?

                  Think I will work on my brush plates as I think this over.

                  thanks, Joe


                  Hello Joe,


                  Go higher then...higher resistance, higher awg number...thinner wire.
                  I will be showing a video on a Dual Pentagon on two different sized Motors...this things were wired with like 18 awg wire...I did them with the finest red RS Wire...30 gauge...3.5 to 3.9 ohms per Pair.

                  You could run this up to 24-36V...0.95 Amp draw...with rear jump...0.45...Original?....3.5 Amps...
                  One of the Motors attach in an Impact Hammer Drill...Gearbox...
                  They run with 18V NiCd or LiPo batteries...so they will be just great.

                  We have to start making "Applications" of Asymmetry versus Symmetry...my friend.

                  You will see video soon Brother


                  Cheers


                  Ufopolitics
                  Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                  Comment


                  • Promised Diagram here...

                    Originally posted by Ace_Propulsion View Post
                    Hi UFO,

                    I got a major problem, please help me out.

                    I used a 7.4volt Li-po battery to run my motor(12V 12COMM TORQMASTER). When I short-circuit the GEN. The motor was slowing down instead of speeding up.(I had already double-checked the wiring and connection, no problem)

                    There's some possibilities

                    Possibility 1: The M(motor) was already Ev=Ea+Ec. Short-circuiting the G(generator) will kill the Ev

                    Possibility 2:The rated power is 12V and full RPM at rated power is 3000RPM. I used 7.4 volt to run the motor. So it's too slow to"convert witches in princesses"

                    Possibility 3:Electricity generation COP>1 can only achieved by "face to face connection" otherwise it may cause strange effect.

                    Regards
                    Hello Ace_Propulsion,

                    Here is the promised Diagram, any questions?...have your Check Book ready/No Credit Cards accepted...

                    [IMG][/IMG]

                    Connection 1 is the same as the one Dana posted...Ec=The Witch/The 'Forced' B EMF originated by Symmetry Forced (not Natural) Reversal.
                    Connection 2 has no output...energy generated is used to internally feed armature diminishing Amperage Draw to "Nickels and Dimes"...While Motor Performance (Speed/Torque) will not reduce at all....OMG...WTF?!...?

                    Please realize we can do all this External Connections while we are operating Machine (Through switches or electronically guided by sensors)...say a Power Drill...Low Battery?...go on Connection 2...say it is a "Kind" of an "Econo-Drive"...

                    Need to Operate an LED Light to see what you are Drilling?...Go Connection 1...

                    And so on and on and on...The Energizer Pink Bunny Rabbit will turn "Crispy and very well done"...


                    Cheers


                    Ufopolitics
                    Last edited by Ufopolitics; 04-09-2013, 04:46 AM.
                    Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                    Comment


                    • I understand the advantages of efficientcy and control of using multiple monster drivers paired with the aurdino. But I also think that there is merit to the KISS method. If you already have a motor that runs stable at low amp draw with plenty of torque, why not just connect it to the generator with gearing to obtain the needed RPM?

                      Comment


                      • Control.

                        Originally posted by Zardox View Post
                        I understand the advantages of efficientcy and control of using multiple monster drivers paired with the aurdino. But I also think that there is merit to the KISS method. If you already have a motor that runs stable at low amp draw with plenty of torque, why not just connect it to the generator with gearing to obtain the needed RPM?

                        Hello Zardox, maybe i can put in my thoughts here, on your question.

                        It is very unusual to run an alternator/generator with an electric motor, they are nearly always run with internal combustion engines, wich of course polute and maintain the Status Quo.

                        As you probably already understand, gas engines have a mechanical governer system that opens the throttle when a load is applied until the required RPM's are reached to satisfy voltage and Hertz requirement, and of course if the demand excedes the HP ability of the gas engine, it struggles and coughs and spits till it dies.

                        No matter what kind of mechanical load you put on an electric motor you will change the RPM, how much depends on how much load you apply, if you have a small load and it is constant, say a battery charging setup, the KISS principal may be able to be applied.

                        In most circumstances, say household power or EV power, the load has to constantly vary according to use, and the supply to the motor needs to also vary to meet demands of that use, and that's where computerised electronic control, with external sensors will come into play.

                        From what i can see, UFO's Asymmetric motor designs will allow the flexability of control that is necessary, with using as little input as possible, but the control means still have to be worked out completely, and we have GREAT people here to help do that. THANKS JOHN STONE, NICCO, LESTER, etc, etc.

                        Hope this goes some way to explaning your question Zardox.

                        Warm Regards Cornboy.

                        Comment


                        • Comm Protocols...

                          Originally posted by Zardox View Post
                          I understand the advantages of efficientcy and control of using multiple monster drivers paired with the aurdino. But I also think that there is merit to the KISS method. If you already have a motor that runs stable at low amp draw with plenty of torque, why not just connect it to the generator with gearing to obtain the needed RPM?
                          Hello Zardox,

                          Yes, after Cornboy explanation...it is very little to say on this...

                          But it bolts down to a simple Concept...Communication Protocols between Machines...

                          The Generator Head and the Motor MUST ALWAYS BE in a variable speed control network...demand/supply.

                          So, (and I already posted this to Dana before)...even after you get your Motor running, say at 3800 RPM's stable...you think you've got it?...nope...as soon as you couple both machines the simple Gen rotor mass weight and the friction from bearings/coupling, WILL bring down RPM's and rise amps...

                          The relationship between both machines is an "Up-Down Wave" constantly changing...and it depends on Generator Loads...as it depends on the appliance you connect to it. So far we have been shorting out crudely Out Load with Incandescent High Wattage Lamps...and honestly...if it will not be to "prove claims/concepts"...in reality...it is "non sense" at all, to have A Generator, even a Gas one...and connect 12 X 500 Watts Lamps on it...to reach the full 6K load...

                          And actually to prove "A Concept" here...all we need is a PSU that would use 120V/15A (1800Watts)...and a PULSED Buck Boost Convert the Flow to 36V/40A OR 48V/30A DC (Both ways=1440 Watts) still not violating absolutely "NADA"... And that would be enough to keep Imperial running...and batteries disconnected...and charged through another "Smart/pulsing" BMS Circuit...Mecc Alte outputs 6KW...so even drawing 2KW or even 3K...we have 3 to 4K over...


                          I have many other Options...in case Monster Driver Modules and pulsing it...still will not drop amperage below "spec's...


                          Regards


                          Ufopolitics
                          Last edited by Ufopolitics; 04-09-2013, 10:51 PM.
                          Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                          Comment


                          • Reversing.

                            Hello UFO, and all, one the same subject i am really looking forward to using the reverse flow, through SiC diodes, from rotor to feed input brushes, and then seeing what effect altering the position of the output brushes has,without changing anything else.

                            The reverse flow from the stators, well that's a whole other ball game.

                            Regards Cornboy.

                            Comment


                            • Another Ball Game...

                              Originally posted by Cornboy 555 View Post
                              Hello UFO, and all, one the same subject i am really looking forward to using the reverse flow, through SiC diodes, from rotor to feed input brushes, and then seeing what effect altering the position of the output brushes has,without changing anything else.

                              The reverse flow from the stators, well that's a whole other ball game.

                              Regards Cornboy.
                              Hello Cornboy,

                              Yes, absolutely...that's another Ball Game my friend...if you wanna talk about it...

                              In order to "tune" Radiant strong enough that SHE will trigger your rotor coils...there is a lot of testing at different pulsing ratios you will have to try...

                              One special tip I will give you...

                              Have in mind that both coils in communication here , Stators and Rotor coils...MUST BE WOUND IN THE SAME DIRECTION...And here...you would still have to comply with our winding system...so Motor works...this directions of windings are NOT Related to what I have been teaching so far, on winding Asymmetrical Machines, to achieve a North or a South...so pleasing "Both Worlds" here gets a bit complicated to be "digested"...my dear friend.

                              If they are not...the transfer of HER Energy through "Negative Induction" (a Neg-entropy) between coils...would be a big time Zero...

                              I have tested this for a while...and let me tell you...I found this, by testing different armatures with the fiberglass asymmetrical stator set up...but guess what...once that you get the right direction plus "tuning"...your rotor coils will energize at certain angles only...where they coincide in sync with stator coils...you will be surprised that this energy...once transferred...you touch one commutator only...and it will give you a nice smooth shock...
                              This is a future way I plan on running this machines...no commutators required...but it needs tons of research and development...and patience...and of course...time...


                              Regards and hoping I am not getting you more "Cornfused" here...


                              Ufopolitics
                              Last edited by Ufopolitics; 04-09-2013, 11:44 PM.
                              Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                              Comment


                              • Reality.

                                Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                                Hello Cornboy,

                                Yes, absolutely...that's another Ball Game my friend...if you wanna talk about it...

                                In order to "tune" Radiant strong enough that SHE will trigger your rotor coils...there is a lot of testing at different pulsing ratios you will have to try...

                                One special tip I will give you...

                                Have in mind that both coils in communication here , Stators and Rotor coils...MUST BE WOUND IN THE SAME DIRECTION...And here...you would still have to comply with our winding system...so Motor works...this directions of windings are NOT Related to what I have been teaching so far, on winding Asymmetrical Machines, to achieve a North or a South...so pleasing "Both Worlds" here gets a bit complicated to be "digested"...my dear friend.

                                If they are not...the transfer of HER Energy through "Negative Induction" (a Neg-entropy) between coils...would be a big time Zero...

                                I have tested this for a while...and let me tell you...I found this, by testing different armatures with the fiberglass asymmetrical stator set up...but guess what...once that you get the right direction plus "tuning"...your rotor coils will energize at certain angles only...where they coincide in sync with stator coils...you will be surprised that this energy...once transferred...you touch one commutator only...and it will give you a nice smooth shock...
                                This is a future way I plan on running this machines...no commutators required...but it needs tons of research and development...and patience...and of course...time...


                                Regards and hoping I am not getting you more "Cornfused" here...


                                Ufopolitics


                                Would love to talk about IT any time you wish UFO, so are you saying not related to what you have taught so far, in that the rotor coil projecting N field outwards, say wound CW, would not match, CW wound stator coil as it would project N field outwards and S field inwards, creating attraction rather than repulsion?

                                If this is not what you mean ,Could you please elaborate my Friend. Just a simple diagram would be great, and is worth a thousand words to me.

                                I was truely amazed with your video of pulsed fibreglass stator, where the rotor turned without any hot being supplied. I have seen small water pump motors with AC stator and PM rotor do that, but your rotor was wound.

                                There is certainly a lot of work to do yet, i agree, and intend, to see it through to Reality

                                Thanks UFO,

                                Warm Regards Cornboy.
                                Last edited by Cornboy 555; 04-10-2013, 12:51 AM.

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