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  • Found washing machine motor

    Hi all.

    I found today a new engine to make asymetric, it's a washing machine motor.

    Hope it will be possible to render asymetric.

    I thought realize first the speed controller, what do you think about this schema ?



    It seems to not support current above 16 Amps, it can hold 160 Amps but only 20 ms.

    I will then disassembled the engine to see the number of poles and how to set the switch to more









    See you later

    Cheers:

    Comment


    • Originally posted by jokosunday View Post
      ....
      I thought realize first the speed controller, what do you think about this schema ?
      .....
      Why that? It will not have any later application in asymmetric matters.
      My advice:
      - Measure Ohms of the statator windings. Often they have two separate windings in order to serve the normal cycle and spin cycle (short time)
      - Try to opperate it as universal motor with DC (you need much less voltage than mains. You might need 24....60V in order to move) Stator and armature/brushes shall be operated in parallel.
      - Look at the commutator and count the segments.
      - Search the thread for related winding diagram.
      - Then start the jurney with us.
      - Don't try shortcuts and own steps conforming standard technology- you need to understand first . Your motor is mainly a means of tutorial and research and not an object of instructables conforming accepted public science.
      BTW:
      1. Your motor looks nice and it could have potential for success. Let's have a look to the internal values!

      2. Your commutator seems to have about 60 segements. The armature will shurely have NOT 60 poles. That is agood news because you can tune the motor later on by deciding which segemnts to conntect in a cluster in order to get an optimized timing.

      3. Where do you get a second commutator with brush holder in order to move it to this motor?.
      Last edited by JohnStone; 10-11-2012, 11:12 AM.
      Experts spend hours a day in order to question their doing while others stopped thinking feeling they were professionals.

      Comment


      • Inside washing machine motor

        Hello JohnStone,

        thank's for your answer, I'm a newbie that's why when I read some posts ago,Ufo say it is possible with ac current.

        Before disassemble the motor, I found 3.2 Ohms between the brushes.

        Ok, so I disassembled the motor and took a photo.



        It seems to be very difficult to place another commutator I will recheck this later.

        Do you think that I can start dewoundering the rotor ?

        I have to place an order to the electronic parts, If anybody can take a look at this list


        A I donĺt know what is this part
        B Trimmer horizontal 250 k╬ę 0,25 W ┬▒30 % pas 10/12.5 mm Piher PT 15 NV 250K sur le site Internet Conrad | 432067
        C R├ęsistance couche m├ętal axiale forme 0207 1 k╬ę 0,6 W 0.1 % sur le site Internet Conrad | 423360
        D Is it important ?
        E R├ęsistance couche carbone axiale forme 0411 68 ╬ę 0,5 W 5 % sur le site Internet Conrad | 405116
        F Irfz44N Trans.N-Mos International Rectifier IRFZ44NPBF sur le site Internet Conrad | 162747
        G Diode standard 50 V 10 A Semikron P 1000 A sur le site Internet Conrad | 160070
        H R├ęsistance couche carbone axiale forme 0204 47 k╬ę 0,1 W 5 % sur le site Internet Conrad | 400459
        I R├ęsistance couche carbone axiale forme 0411 330 ╬ę 0,5 W 5 % sur le site Internet Conrad | 405191
        J R├ęsistance couche m├ętal axiale forme 0207 15 k╬ę 0,6 W 0.1 % sur le site Internet Conrad | 423505
        K R├ęsistance couche carbone axiale forme 0411 100 ╬ę 0,5 W 5 % sur le site Internet Conrad | 405132
        L Ci Ne555P Texas Instruments sur le site Internet Conrad | 152184
        M Condensateur MKS2 0,01 ┬ÁF ┬▒20 % 400 V/DC - 200 V/AC pas 5 mm Wima sur le site Internet Conrad | 459870
        N Diode universelle SOD 123F 75 V 150 mA Diotec 1 N 4148 W sur le site Internet Conrad | 162281

        Sorry for my long post, but I don't want to make a mistake with the electronic part.

        See you later

        Comment


        • I donĺt know what is this part
          "A" Is a Polarized 1 mfd capacitor.
          Last edited by Iotayodi; 10-11-2012, 01:35 PM.

          Comment


          • Hello Jokosunday

            Originally posted by jokosunday View Post
            Hello JohnStone,

            thank's for your answer, I'm a newbie that's why when I read some posts ago,Ufo say it is possible with ac current.

            Before disassemble the motor, I found 3.2 Ohms between the brushes.

            Ok, so I disassembled the motor and took a photo.



            It seems to be very difficult to place another commutator I will recheck this later.

            Do you think that I can start dewoundering the rotor ?

            I have to place an order to the electronic parts, If anybody can take a look at this list


            A I donĺt know what is this part
            B Trimmer horizontal 250 k╬ę 0,25 W ┬▒30 % pas 10/12.5 mm Piher PT 15 NV 250K sur le site Internet Conrad | 432067
            C R├ęsistance couche m├ętal axiale forme 0207 1 k╬ę 0,6 W 0.1 % sur le site Internet Conrad | 423360
            D Is it important ?
            E R├ęsistance couche carbone axiale forme 0411 68 ╬ę 0,5 W 5 % sur le site Internet Conrad | 405116
            F Irfz44N Trans.N-Mos International Rectifier IRFZ44NPBF sur le site Internet Conrad | 162747
            G Diode standard 50 V 10 A Semikron P 1000 A sur le site Internet Conrad | 160070
            H R├ęsistance couche carbone axiale forme 0204 47 k╬ę 0,1 W 5 % sur le site Internet Conrad | 400459
            I R├ęsistance couche carbone axiale forme 0411 330 ╬ę 0,5 W 5 % sur le site Internet Conrad | 405191
            J R├ęsistance couche m├ętal axiale forme 0207 15 k╬ę 0,6 W 0.1 % sur le site Internet Conrad | 423505
            K R├ęsistance couche carbone axiale forme 0411 100 ╬ę 0,5 W 5 % sur le site Internet Conrad | 405132
            L Ci Ne555P Texas Instruments sur le site Internet Conrad | 152184
            M Condensateur MKS2 0,01 ┬ÁF ┬▒20 % 400 V/DC - 200 V/AC pas 5 mm Wima sur le site Internet Conrad | 459870
            N Diode universelle SOD 123F 75 V 150 mA Diotec 1 N 4148 W sur le site Internet Conrad | 162281

            Sorry for my long post, but I don't want to make a mistake with the electronic part.

            See you later


            Hello Jokosunday,


            Ok, first you should work on motor, before electronics, this motors could run directly from batteries, so you could check them without the controller-oscillator.

            It is a nice motor, but you will need to do quite some work to be converted.
            You should leave the Stator windings as they are, and MAINLY work on your Armature/Rotor.

            First you need to look for another commutator EXACTLY the same as the one Motor has, same inner/outer diameter, and same number of segments. As also another set of brushes with housings and plates (I did not see brushes in pictures)

            You will need to get a longer shaft, and removing the old one must be done after motor is stripped off wires and commutator.
            You will need to use a hydraulic press to pull shaft out easy without splitting core steel lamination's, I tell you it will NOT be an easy job.
            After you have armature with commutators and longer shaft (before winding it) you must mount it on Motor Frame (embodiment) and adjust for free turning, there you will need to extend the bolts and use some spacers between, since your armature/rotor will now be longer.

            Now the Electronics.

            A I used a Tantalum Capacitor, they are polarized, that is why the bent plate in symbol means negative-ground.
            D is a MOV (Metal Oxide Varistor) or simply a Varistor of 12 V, or you could also use a Zener Diode of 12 V to "clamp" voltage not allowing spikes it will prevent high Voltage transients currents to damage your investment...


            Regards


            Ufopolitics
            Last edited by Ufopolitics; 10-11-2012, 01:54 PM.
            Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

            Comment


            • Originally posted by jokosunday View Post
              ...
              ...,Ufo say it is possible with ac current.

              Before disassemble the motor, I found 3.2 Ohms between the brushes.

              Ok, so I disassembled the motor and took a photo.

              It seems to be very difficult to place another commutator I will recheck this later.

              Do you think that I can start dewoundering the rotor ?
              ......
              - Yes AC current - but start with basics. I myself do not apply AC yet.
              - 3.2 Ohm menas 2*1.6 Ohm thats seems OK - do not rewind
              - You will use 2 commutator segments for one coil pair. Search the Thread for 18 Pole engine. You will use two segments for one wire connection (coil pair).
              - 2 commutators is a must - do not proceed with this motor if you have no idea for 2nd commutator. As a newby it will be much easyer if you start with a 5 pole DC motor. Please read this thread from the beginning. ALL issues related are discussed before.
              - Regarding electronics see thread from Ufo. He started his discoveries with this one in order to educate basics first. Please read this initial thread from the beginning before this one. You will find lots of hints regarding electronics and controllers.
              - It is essential for you to understand that what we do here is NOT just a bit rewinding and a bit speed control. Ufo teaches issues not being understood by standard science. It is research. Of course you are welcome here but you should start your career along the thread. There is no shortcut possible. If you start wirh shortcuts you will go all ways twice.
              - If you study the threads I recommend to use a mind map tool like the free XMIND (see post). There you can link and copy what you feel to be imptortant for your replication in order to recall essential knowledge later on.
              - The PWM controller is not essential in order to start with a motor replication - it is an addon for enhancement.
              - Essential is to own a power source like one or two lead acid batteries and a menas for charging them or a corresponding PSU wich 5 to 10 A min.
              Warm Regards
              JohnS
              Experts spend hours a day in order to question their doing while others stopped thinking feeling they were professionals.

              Comment


              • thank you for the answers

                Thanks for the answers, I will check the controller later, because I am completely lost in the differents model (Volts, Amps, etc ...) of mosfets.

                So I have to found a press to disassemble the rotor, not easy for sure.

                Don' t you think the hammer is a good solution ? I'm laughing

                Maybe a hub puller can make the job.

                See you later

                Comment


                • hi jokosunday

                  i have very similar motors to your one but it is not complete yet.
                  when i found my second commutator on a motor of the same brand as my first motor i was lucky that the second motor has a much longer shaft.
                  so maybe you can find another similar motor to the one you have now but with a longer shaft to take the two commutators...this will allow you to avoid the process of removing and replacing the shaft.
                  its going to be trouble enough to remove the armature wiring and the commutator on the machine you have now...it took me several hours and as yet i havn't even stripped the second armature.

                  Comment


                  • Hi Seth

                    Hi Seth,

                    yes, I have seen in your earlier post that you have the same motor.

                    Maybe, it is possible to put the commutator on the same shaft, but I don't now later how to fix to a generator, maybe with a belt but with some losses.

                    I though originaly make this motor to have an infinite source of electricity with the overunity Ufopolitics motor.

                    Ha !! if we have listened to Nikola TESLA nowadays energy would be free !!

                    I have to re-read the thread to look for 18 poles winding in diagonal.

                    See you later

                    Comment


                    • i don't think there is an 18 pole design described perfectly yet.
                      maybe have a look at the two 12 pole designs and anything close to 18 poles then adapt the theories for yourself.
                      first person to post an 18 pole wins the game ;-)
                      cheers

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by nico8k View Post
                        Hi Netica,

                        Excellent work!!! That stator tap huge amounts of radiant energy!!!!
                        Again you get less amps as motor load increases!
                        Thanks for sharing your work!

                        Nico
                        Hi nico8k,
                        Glad you liked the video, very happy to share my work.

                        netica

                        Comment


                        • Combined Hello to all

                          Hello Guys!!

                          I have been swamped with work...I had to transfer my shop...the whole thing including Air Compressors, Welders...Office Equipment...Tools, Machine Shop side...and still working on it...

                          @John Stone,

                          Dear John thanks so much for giving such great orientation to the new guys coming in!!...basically NOW to Jokosunday, You are doing it excellent

                          Warm Regards



                          @Jokosunday,

                          Please listen carefully to John Stone, all He is going to tell you is for your fast learning and achieving best results without any crashes in your way.

                          Please ..."Don't Jump the Gun"..I know it is an American saying...and have no idea if in France there is something similar...but it means "do not jump to steps that can cause you serious trouble"...

                          Look for Member Sebosfato, search all his post here...He had an 18 Pole Machine and He got it running fine...He posted some diagrams for it...

                          It is based on the "P-# of Poles" Diagrams...is simple...P-1 to P-18, P means Pairs...

                          I will try to see if I got it somewhere...anyways you still have a lot of work before starting to wind...

                          And NO, a Hammer is NOT Good to remove shaft!

                          You could use a Steering Wheel Pulley from Automotive shops...to extract the commutators and Bearings FIRST, BUT You MUST build a plate with a groove (size of shaft) to accommodate under commutator to pull evenly with Pulley Jaws...or else You WILL CRACK IT if the pull is Uneven...or jaws are grabbing a segment/element...

                          Regards and good luck!


                          @Seth,

                          Thanks also for your help to Jokosunday!!

                          Very smart advices on shaft and search in other motors...


                          Regards



                          See You soon again at "Full Time"



                          Au Revoir



                          Ufopolitics
                          Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                            Hello Netica,

                            As always an excellent build!...Stator looks very neat and so does windings...
                            There is a drop down of Currents (around one amp) once that you introduce the Asymmetric Armature while Symmetric Motor running, as also a drop down in speed due to Asymmetric Armature consuming part of the reverse Radiant Field generated. If you measure Asymmetric Armature Coils you will have current there, induced by your Asymmetric Stator.

                            It was great to see you are obtaining the effect of "No Amp Increase Under Load" again, it is an excellent demonstration Netica!

                            The other test you could also do is to feed the Asymm Armature from the Stator Output, and try same test of Amperage decrease under mechanical load to Asymm Shaft.

                            If you look at your combination of both Machines , I mean, just your Stator and the Symmetric Motor, it is already doing that...except you are running that armature inside "Another Magnetic Field" and Frame Embodiment...the Permanent Magnet Field...and of course...it is a Symmetric one.

                            Your Stator will also run a Symmetric Armature.

                            It will be good for others viewers new to this Technology, if you could insert in between frames of your video track, the circuit diagrams just as stills pictures, so everyone have an idea of what you are doing. I mean, We all know how you are doing it...but some have no idea.


                            Thanks, great video as excellent model!


                            Regards and Cheers..


                            Ufopolitics
                            Hi Ufo,

                            Thanks for your comments, always encouraging.

                            "There is a drop down of Currents (around one amp) once that you introduce the Asymmetric Armature while Symmetric Motor running, as also a drop down in speed due to Asymmetric Armature consuming part of the reverse Radiant Field generated. If you measure Asymmetric Armature Coils you will have current there, induced by your Asymmetric Stator."

                            I thought this would be the case also but I have measured very little voltage on the Asymmetric Rotor between .5 and 1.5 volts. I think this may be because there is not enough winds on the rotor.



                            "The other test you could also do is to feed the Asymm Armature from the Stator Output, and try same test of Amperage decrease under mechanical load to Asymm Shaft."

                            I have made these connections and the rotor doesn't even come close to wanting to turn, I think this again is because there are to few windings on the rotor.
                            Also there may not be a big enough magnetic field on the stator. Unfortunately the way the stator is designed alot of wire is wasted on the side. It would be better if maybe there were groups of coils on each side connected together to alleviate all the side part of the windings, but maybe you won't get the same radiant development, i don't know.


                            I can only run the motor for quick bursts as shown in the video because the mosfets heat up so much and so quickly I can't even touch the aluminum plate they are mounted on after a few seconds. There is very little power in the rotor it could be stopped very easily with a light touch, nothing like the power of the symmetric motor in the video.

                            I think it would be better if the wire on the rotor is half the size diameter that it is. It is currently 0.7mm diameter but may be better if it was around 0.3 to 0.4mm diameter. It is well under 1 ohm resistance.
                            You have said to put as large diameter as possible as this is better for radiant and magnatism and also to make it at least 1 ohm. The problem is with the given space you can't have both.
                            There is only so much space on the rotor and unless the diameter of the wire is brought down alot it is to difficult to get it up to 1 ohm or even a little higher or to match the stator winding.

                            netica

                            Comment


                            • Hello Netica,

                              Originally posted by Netica View Post
                              Hi Ufo,

                              Thanks for your comments, always encouraging.

                              "There is a drop down of Currents (around one amp) once that you introduce the Asymmetric Armature while Symmetric Motor running, as also a drop down in speed due to Asymmetric Armature consuming part of the reverse Radiant Field generated. If you measure Asymmetric Armature Coils you will have current there, induced by your Asymmetric Stator."

                              I thought this would be the case also but I have measured very little voltage on the Asymmetric Rotor between .5 and 1.5 volts. I think this may be because there is not enough winds on the rotor.



                              "The other test you could also do is to feed the Asymm Armature from the Stator Output, and try same test of Amperage decrease under mechanical load to Asymm Shaft."

                              I have made these connections and the rotor doesn't even come close to wanting to turn, I think this again is because there are to few windings on the rotor.
                              Also there may not be a big enough magnetic field on the stator. Unfortunately the way the stator is designed alot of wire is wasted on the side. It would be better if maybe there were groups of coils on each side connected together to alleviate all the side part of the windings, but maybe you won't get the same radiant development, i don't know.


                              I can only run the motor for quick bursts as shown in the video because the mosfets heat up so much and so quickly I can't even touch the aluminum plate they are mounted on after a few seconds. There is very little power in the rotor it could be stopped very easily with a light touch, nothing like the power of the symmetric motor in the video.

                              I think it would be better if the wire on the rotor is half the size diameter that it is. It is currently 0.7mm diameter but may be better if it was around 0.3 to 0.4mm diameter. It is well under 1 ohm resistance.
                              You have said to put as large diameter as possible as this is better for radiant and magnatism and also to make it at least 1 ohm. The problem is with the given space you can't have both.
                              There is only so much space on the rotor and unless the diameter of the wire is brought down alot it is to difficult to get it up to 1 ohm or even a little higher or to match the stator winding.

                              netica
                              Hello Netica,

                              Ok, if there is not that much current-voltage on rotor...and it is running weak and slow...then you could have:

                              1) Rotor MUST be wound exactly same direction as Stator. You may have it reversed.
                              And what I mean is that the Pair Coils (that are in series), when aligned at Input Brushes, (Energizing Coils) the positive Brush terminal, must be on the same side as Stator Positive...and then you should check the windings directions if they are identical on both (Stator Pair of Coils VERSUS Stator Winding)

                              This is a "MUST" here Netica!...If you have it differently wound...they will be very weak, since Radiant will not be able to Induce negatively.

                              Remember when I was talking about Secondaries in my first Thread?
                              Remember I always insisted that Secondaries MUST be wound exactly the same winding directions?
                              Radiant Induction propagates as a Transformer effect ONLY into Coils that are Identical in winding direction. Remember Your Non Ferrous Stator Core does not Induce Hot Flux...but very, very weak...not so with Radiant.

                              Well...the same thing Applies here...

                              2) Also, Try making Rotor Coils Bifilar, I know you have room-space problems...so use a 23 awg...double strand..or even a 26 will do...

                              The Stator Wound-Levels should be balanced...meaning same amounts on both sides, from a "imaginary center plane"...I don't see why yours is wasting too much on just one side...miscalculation?...don't worry I did it also on my first wound Asymmetric Stator...as also on my second one... ...I know is not simple to make it even on both sides...but it could be done right?

                              Edit 1: Try bigger Heat Sinks...a Big, thick Aluminum Common Bar for all MOSFET's bolted heavily there...as it will be your Drain Bus Bar...
                              Try using thicker wires at Drain-Positive (Output from your Oscillator to Stator)

                              Regards Netica, and keep making such beautiful Models please!


                              Cheers...


                              Ufopolitics
                              Last edited by Ufopolitics; 10-12-2012, 04:17 AM.
                              Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                              Comment


                              • @Netica,

                                @Netica,

                                Please "Refresh Screen (F5)" since I have done many edits and corrections on my respond post to yours


                                Regards


                                Ufopolitics
                                Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

                                Comment

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