My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[erfinder]

Hello Erfinder,
Please do not go...again, I want to congratulate you for finally deciding to open your own thread, where you are exposing very interesting effects/results, as very well built and excellent machines.

I am going to take that as an invitation, and assume that my posting from here on out isn't going to be considered as trespassing. I thank you for your kind words regarding my machines, you have set the bar incredibly high, so, if I want to communicate to you and your audience, my craftsmanship and attention to detail must par with yours.

But please...let's "Coexist" in harmony...Your Machines are a different approach to Electrodynamic Technology in the Brush Less DC design.

Yes, coexistence is the way to go, harmony my goal.

I am not qualified to say with any certainty what if any relation that my work has with the present accepted doctrines and dogma governing "Electrodynamic Technology". With that I try to avoid labels and focus on the effects that I'm interested in manifesting in my devices.

The Machines displayed here are a different approach, even the later ones I have shown which are also BLDC.
Look around Us...we still have brush and brushless motors everywhere...some are good for certain applications...where the others will just not output same performance. Even within the BLDC, we have different structures, like the Outrunners and the Inrunners...different winding types in Symmetry like the Delta and the WYE...and so on and on...

Yes there are commutated and brushless motors in what can be considered as unlimited quantities being applied in various applications. As you pointed out one type is good for one thing while the other type is good for another. The differences are not a concern for me though. What I am interested in is that single thing that unites them. Regardless of if the motor is a brushless type or a brushed type, both behave as if they were generators. From this perspective, that of the generator action, how the device is commutated is immaterial.

We should never disregard any machine or methodology... just because we just came up with a better, newer one...and yes you are right, CEMF at certain point is required to cause certain motor control...certain regulation of some parameters...all technology should "COEXIST"...The same way that Oil should have allowed secondary, alternative energy technologies along all this 130 plus years...

As I pointed out before, it's not about right or wrong. It's not about what's better, none of that matters to me, better or worse can only be judged by one who has accomplished the desired result, and has developed the ability to see, that which was perceived as a weakness as strength. It is not my intention to come across as if to disregard a machine or methodology, it is to identify kinks in the armor, and flaws in design. The brushed DC motor should have been designed differently.

I am of the opinion that CEMF is the system fulcrum. It is the mechanism that keeps all in check, it is from this position where we should be viewing the system, from the golden center. From the perspective of the CEMF the applied EMF is foreign!

I have been watching, reading all your posts in your thread...along with all videos you had uploaded...excellent work!

Your compliment is greatly appreciated.

I can see you have some different "effects" going on at TDC then at JTDC...after your machine is running at TDC very strong and fast...you move the Hall Sensor to JTDC and your Buffer Capacitor starts to produce a very interesting excess of Voltage much higher than source circuit...I see this phenomena very strange, but very worthy to develop and investigate much , but I mean MUCH further on...

This is the effect. One sees the voltage rise on a capacitor in the videos, but it must be understood that to charge the capacitor current is required. I am suggesting that the current charging this capacitor to a higher potential than the source is the exact same current which charges the parasitic capacitance of an unloaded generator coil, please give yourself time for that to sink in.

In my machine the design was specifically chosen so that the location of maximum induced potential is at JTDC, and the point of zero induced potential is at the zero crossing TDC proper. From the video it can be seen that the effect takes place at JTDC. The device is started at JTDC, it will not start at TDC. From here the machine draws maximum current till the RPM enables the CEMF to limit the current, at this point the timing is changed from JTDC to TDC, here there is no CEMF limiting the current and the motor accelerates to its new plateau. The timing is returned to JTDC, and the supply is charged, no drag is experienced during charging because no current is flowing from the source to oppose the charging current.

I was going to recommend some "approach" utilizing the angle where you move the Hall between TDC-JTDC...Now, Do you think you could build a "Dual Hall Sensor" electronic circuitry, say Hall 1 at TDC and Hall 2 at JTDC...where you could switch them on-off at regulated Speed between this two angles through a POT...to a point that both Halls would be pulsating back and forth from TDC to JTDC, plus another POT to Increase One more than the other and vice versa...say by percentage or Duty Cycle...from 50/50 to 80/20 %...I believe if you do this...and not manually like you have shown on videos...you will have more accurate control on your effect...therefore you would be able to play back and forth between the two worlds...high performance and pretty good output ...till you find a suitable spot on Percentage between H1 and H2...as frequency of switching between the two...maybe this would work...maybe not...we never know...but it is just my two cents.
Regards
Ufopolitics

I can and do appreciate your suggestions, early in the research these thoughts crossed my mind, and as you probably have guessed I followed those thoughts to their end. At the end of what appeared to be countless tests, it was determined that the effect manifests without extra switching, and introducing extra switching so as to move between JTDC and TDC proved to be counterproductive. The introduction of extra switching also demonstrated that I didn't really comprehend what I was working with. What I wanted, what the device was showing me was I needed to trigger at JTDC, the point of the anomaly, and draw current at a rate which is equal to that being drawn at TDC, use the CEMF to do this, use the CEMF as a lever which would switch the circuit between the two conditions experienced when moving between JTDC and TDC.

By changing our perspective which as it stands is that of the applied EMF looking into a system where an induced EMF is manifesting and increasing in magnitude with increasing RPM, we should consider the perspective of the CEMF and the circuit parameters which govern its manifestation and maintenance.

The interaction or more accurately the exchange taking place between the induced and applied EMF illustrate a one word mechanism, opposition. Opposition is a funny thing when we look at it deeper for the word itself leads one to mentally experience the force between two magnets with like poles facing one another, while at the same time accepting the "idea" that opposites attract.

Now the more "educated" among us would immediately see this as being a perfect example of double think, and were it not for my experiences would be inclined to agree with them. I am grateful that there have been great minds, giants who came before us and paved the way for deeper understanding, for what some ignorantly call double think, those wise call a magnetic gate.

I look forward to exchanging with you and your group UFO. Keep an open mind, mine is open, were it not I would not be on your thread sharing, not teaching, sharing. It is my hope that you can appreciate what I am suggesting, and that you have the vision to see how it applies to your work and what a combined effort could mean for the future. As it stands, a meshing of ideas isn't realizable owing to certain design complications, I have brought them to your attention in the past, and don't wish to repeat history, with that, I hope you see where I'm coming from and come to the same or similar conclusion that I have, when you do, a melding of material will not only be possible, it will be inevitable.



Regards

[Cornboy 555]

Hello Erfinder, i feel you do realy wish to contribute, so please keep posting.

Regards Cornboy.

[barbosi]

@ Aaron

I won't trespass again.


Regards

Thank you - we'll keep you to your word.

As I don't sense any of the forum's guide lines were infringed, I take this as a silent way to announce a ban, undeserved especially when the thread initiator was welcoming the intervention.

Personally I would have listened to the wise ancestors which have advised: "Do not speak unless you can improve the silence".

Yet, when you say "we'll keep you..." who is there, beside you, to form a "we"?

Regards.

[iankoglin]

G'day UFO and Team
On my You tube site Some one asked what was the watts output he suggested that I hang a 50watt bulb of the output I hung 6 - 24v 21w bulbs of the output and started it up you can see the video here



Wats Output - YouTube

Kindest regards

Kogs always tries to oblige

[Aaron]

erfinder

I won't trespass again.

Thank you - we'll keep you to your word.

[Midaztouch]

@ Team


Please pay attention to these vids by Warren! Then view ALL of his vids. I believe he has found a significant attribute of UFO Asymmetric Motors! This must be reviewed and discussed!!!


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VrqFQRh5I6Y

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NxYDsLhe3fA

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7louzQaVqE

Keep it Clean and Green
Midaz

[Ufopolitics]

Erfinder...

My fellow researchers,

Forgive the intrusion, I would like to share the following food for thought.

Every motor is a generator, and every generator is a motor. Through the proper association of the two (a dedicated motor, and a dedicated generator), the current limiting mechanism associated with the CEMF of the motor can be effectively reversed and or neutralized. Likewise, the torque generated in the generator is effectively reversed and or neutralized.

In short, the CEMF of the motor is routed towards the CEMF of the generator. The CEMF of the generator serves the same purpose as the magicians assistant, beguiling the audience with her beauty while the illusionist makes his finial preparations and blows your mind by properly applying knowledge. While the induced EMF from your generator has your motors induced EMF preoccupied, the applied EMF from the external power supply can saturate the system with dramatically reduced opposition.

CEMF is not the enemy, it's the genii in the solenoid.

It is not my function to disclose to you a method by which you can realize what I am suggesting. It is my duty however to inform you of my experiences, share information with you that you may not be aware of because its coming from my bench. It is my hope that you take that which is being suggested to heart and investigate at your leisure.


Regards

Hello Erfinder,


Please do not go...again, I want to congratulate you for finally deciding to open your own thread, where you are exposing very interesting effects/results, as very well built and excellent machines.

But please...let's "Coexist" in harmony...Your Machines are a different approach to Electrodynamic Technology in the Brush Less DC design.

The Machines displayed here are a different approach, even the later ones I have shown which are also BLDC.

Look around Us...we still have brush and brushless motors everywhere...some are good for certain applications...where the others will just not output same performance. Even within the BLDC, we have different structures, like the Outrunners and the Inrunners...different winding types in Symmetry like the Delta and the WYE...and so on and on...

We should never disregard any machine or methodology... just because we just came up with a better, newer one...and yes you are right, CEMF at certain point is required to cause certain motor control...certain regulation of some parameters...all technology should "COEXIST"...The same way that Oil should have allowed secondary, alternative energy technologies along all this 130 plus years...

I have been watching, reading all your posts in your thread...along with all videos you had uploaded...excellent work!

I can see you have some different "effects" going on at TDC then at JTDC...after your machine is running at TDC very strong and fast...you move the Hall Sensor to JTDC and your Buffer Capacitor starts to produce a very interesting excess of Voltage much higher than source circuit...I see this phenomena very strange, but very worthy to develop and investigate much , but I mean MUCH further on...

I was going to recommend some "approach" utilizing the angle where you move the Hall between TDC-JTDC...Now, Do you think you could build a "Dual Hall Sensor" electronic circuitry, say Hall 1 at TDC and Hall 2 at JTDC...where you could switch them on-off at regulated Speed between this two angles through a POT...to a point that both Halls would be pulsating back and forth from TDC to JTDC, plus another POT to Increase One more than the other and vice versa...say by percentage or Duty Cycle...from 50/50 to 80/20 %...I believe if you do this...and not manually like you have shown on videos...you will have more accurate control on your effect...therefore you would be able to play back and forth between the two worlds...high performance and pretty good output ...till you find a suitable spot on Percentage between H1 and H2...as frequency of switching between the two...maybe this would work...maybe not...we never know...but it is just my two cents.

Regards


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Awesome Machine!

G'day UFO and Team

I have made a video it is here

Kogs First Imperial Armature Test - YouTube

I now have to dismantle the 4 motors Pack securely and send them 100klms to be varnished then they go on to the other side of Melbourne 500klms to be balanced then back to me to assemble and test some more
The cost
Varnish the 4 motors $20 each =$80

Balancing the 4 motors 2 My Motors $105 each the 1000w Zy motor $120 and the Imperial beast $140 total= $475
All the deliveries $100
The Sum Total = $655
My Camera assistant/Test Driver when she saw the video she could not stop laughing when I asked her why she said she could hear herself chewing Gum

Kindest regards To you all

Kogs getting excited and broke

Hello Kogs!

Nice, very nice and perfectly well built Machine Kogs, congratulations!

You have it all "nailed down"...please do not move that Dial!...meaning, make sure you do mark the brushes settings as far as timing.

By the RPM's is going at 12 and 24 Volts, plus the very "even sound", and no sparking at comm, and output voltage...I can tell all settings plus parameters are in perfect place, after you balance and varnish...it will do even better!

When you hook up that motor into ANY application it is gonna play an awesome performance, I guarantee that.


Warm regards


Ufopolitics

[erfinder]

Hey Erfi, who you talking to? This motor has no CEMF! This kind of tells me you really haven't dug through this thread and have no real concept of how this motor works. It's design converts Counter EMF into Assistive EMF.

Hope this helps.

I won't trespass again.


Regards

[sampojo]

Re: Erfi info

Hey Erfi, who you talking to? This motor has no CEMF! This kind of tells me you really haven't dug through this thread and have no real concept of how this motor works. It's design converts Counter EMF into Assistive EMF.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: My apologies if I was a little harsh. I guess what you are saying applys to Mr. Ufo's motor, Its just that it abolishes CEMF in the design. It really can't be called that in these motors anymore. I use AEMF when I talk about to my engineering buddies.

[erfinder]

My fellow researchers,

Forgive the intrusion, I would like to share the following food for thought.

Every motor is a generator, and every generator is a motor. Through the proper association of the two (a dedicated motor, and a dedicated generator), the current limiting mechanism associated with the CEMF of the motor can be effectively reversed and or neutralized. Likewise, the torque generated in the generator is effectively reversed and or neutralized.

In short, the CEMF of the motor is routed towards the CEMF of the generator. The CEMF of the generator serves the same purpose as the magicians assistant, beguiling the audience with her beauty while the illusionist makes his finial preparations and blows your mind by properly applying knowledge. While the induced EMF from your generator has your motors induced EMF preoccupied, the applied EMF from the external power supply can saturate the system with dramatically reduced opposition.

CEMF is not the enemy, it's the genii in the solenoid.

It is not my function to disclose to you a method by which you can realize what I am suggesting. It is my duty however to inform you of my experiences, share information with you that you may not be aware of because its coming from my bench. It is my hope that you take that which is being suggested to heart and investigate at your leisure.


Regards

[Lightworker1]

Hi @Kogs, great works & demo. Will also Look forward to the Finished product.
[Message sent from my google pad]

Warmest regards

Light

[iankoglin]

Hey Machine,

Please post videos of that little build when done!

On the Dual Rotor Imperial, we do not need such sophisticated bridge design like I originally posted...

[IMG][/IMG]

After designing the Three Pole Dual...I realized just another set of laminates without the poles would do...in order to simplify design plus reduce co$t$.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

This way much easier to cut on waterjet...we could use long fine bolts/nuts at common areas to Inner-Outer rotor to secure the whole assembly.


Regards


Ufopolitics

G'day UFO
I like the way you have thought out the new build
I've been pondering over your details above and I think when you draw these inner armature laminations and outer case made of laminations and the bridge laminations in fact all of the laminated sections for production it might be a good idea to place some say 3 or 5mm bolt/rod holes so that the laminations can be aligned when assembled

Kindest Regards

Kogs sometimes thinks a bit too hard

[ajaya999]

Monster Pulser

@Hi Sam,

Thanks for the support and help.

I'm also seriously thinking to get it done here with any local service provider.

One month - though I understand it requires - is some thing unbearable waiting time for me. I kept a target to finish this before 7th Feb ( a deadline I declared to my son to run UFO Machine).

I built a few small joule thief models and lasersaber's jouleringer. That's all.

Let me try my luck Sam. Many thanks for the support.

@Hi Kogs,

Good Video. . Thanks for sharing

Regards and Namaste

Kumar

[iankoglin]

Kogs update

G'day UFO and Team

I have made a video it is here

Kogs First Imperial Armature Test - YouTube

I now have to dismantle the 4 motors Pack securely and send them 100klms to be varnished then they go on to the other side of Melbourne 500klms to be balanced then back to me to assemble and test some more
The cost
Varnish the 4 motors $20 each =$80

Balancing the 4 motors 2 My Motors $105 each the 1000w Zy motor $120 and the Imperial beast $140 total= $475
All the deliveries $100
The Sum Total = $655
My Camera assistant/Test Driver when she saw the video she could not stop laughing when I asked her why she said she could hear herself chewing Gum

Kindest regards To you all

Kogs getting excited and broke