My Asymmetric Electrodynamic Machines

[iankoglin]

Hi Ian I understand that when the current to a rotor segment is cut, the new momentary field will then reverse. But will the new momentary field be aiding the generator segment or opposing the generator segment? I dont have a scope to find out.

G'day asolid
If you print 2 of UFO's drawings cut the rotor and armature from one (not the brushes)
and superimpose over the other and slowly turn the superimposed one in the direction of rotation you will see where the coils are in relationship with stator magnets when the brush just leaves the comm segment and do not forget that the polarity of the coils are reversed and imagine the reaction between the two you should remember that magnets either permanent or electro will try to align each other.
Remember though that the brush and comm segments really need to be the exact size in relation to the real motor so you might have to pull the motor apart to get some exact measurements and that there usually more than one comm segment touching the brush at one time usually 2 sometimes three

Tell us your results

Kindest Regards

Kogs been there done that

[s e t h]

Hi Ian I understand that when the current to a rotor segment is cut, the new momentary field will then reverse. But will the new momentary field be aiding the generator segment or opposing the generator segment? I dont have a scope to find out.

In my opinion as long as the stator and the rotor are both electromagnets then when the current is simultaneously cut to both the rotor and stator segments it won't matter as both coils will iether stay the same or reverse their polarity. If they both follow the same law then the momentary (collapsing?)field will be assisting rotation as the timing of said pulse would be occuring just post optimal time for creating rotation.

a further strange thought on this matter may be that should there be anything special in the collapsing field of a dc pulse it may only be able to create a force 90 degrees to iether rotation or counter rotation

a machine something akin to the below drawing may be suited to such a force

[DadHav]

Hello Midaz,

Well, is good to know you are flexible...



Midaz, like we have discussed in several mails before...it is great we have "doors open" at Imperial Motors, and I agree we can not miss our next hit...since the first attempt was "burnt" already...

I know you are flexible, plus you are also a smart guy... (get ready... )

Midaz, when I first started writing on this Forum...I already had built and experimented with several Asymmetric Motors Structures (not Imperial though, but I had build the BOSCH 20 Poles)..and... of all this Machines the one that really impressed me the most...was the simple Three Pole configuration...when I did the Radio Shack Five Pole...I was happy, however, I noticed the performance and "strange effects" that I had experienced on the 3 pole...were not there on the 5 pole little motor.

However, we kept going and building more complicated machines like Imperial.

I must recognize I was very stubborn then...and I did not listen to great experimenters here on the field of small motors like Dad Hav, now I admit He was right when he tested this Five Pole Radio Shack Motor...

However, this is an Experimental and very new Technology...and none of Us have been able to test this Heavy Machines under rigorous and radical Industrial Typical Testing Environments like Imperial Motors has.

Now going back to the 3 Pole Motor...I did not see any differences at that time related to the Radio Shack Five Pole...now I do, and the reason was to be working on the N-Machines small models, as reading a lot of literature about this machines that goes back to Faraday days...I got to "see" more about Magnetic Fields and their real properties/attributes none of Us was taught before on this fields...then I went back to our Machines...

I will be brief here by jumping to my final conclusions...I re did that Five Pole Radio Shack motor...this time applying those concepts...and making it identical in those attributes to the Three Poles...and guess what?

I wound it with same exact spec's as our typical one (wire gauge, turns etc) but a different winding...that's all...and the difference in the results were too extreme apart my friend...too much difference in "supremacy" over the older model...too much to say..."let's forget about it by now, and keep going the way we did it originally..."

At the same token I feel bad for finding this new approach...I feel bad for so many people that had gone fully in spending their money epoxying and balancing this machines, like I also did with Imperial...but, again, it was not something I knew for a long time...I just found out a few days ago.

The good news is that Structure keeps being the same as before...it is just the way to wind them...and I would be uploading a video where I compare both Asymmetric Small Machines.

I am going to get a UFO Kit to try this on a Four Brush System.



It would be an even better experience, my friend...and I am not starting "N-Machines" here......I would be just showing my new findings on this other type of winding this rotors.

What if I tell you that this new type of winding bring Imperial Amp Draw to less than half or even more than we have right now?...while the Output would be bigger...without loosing , but optimizing all attributes related to Torque and Speed?

What if I say...that now, it will Optimize every single attribute plus adding a much smoother running?

..even testing it with a Power Supply Unit..

Would you become "non flexible" and ask me to still get the old system to Imperial Motors?

It is up to you all guys here... that have this type of Machines and are working on them.

But, remember...can not screw up again with Imperial...or we will loose them.


Regards


Ufopolitics

UFO, I promised not to post as long as my name wasn't mentioned. Well, I have to admit I didn't expect I'd be replying to a compliment. Thanks for that, but it's all water under the bridge for me, I'm to old to worry about how long I can hold a grudge. I like the idea of the winding change on the small motor and think it will probably work better. It would be good to see some positive results on a small project that more people could get involved with. Good luck. Who knows, maybe I'll be taking down or replacing my video soon. Ha, don't forget I still have my R/C plane stuffed with confetti ready for the celebration.
RGDS to all.
John

[asollid]

Hi Ian I understand that when the current to a rotor segment is cut, the new momentary field will then reverse. But will the new momentary field be aiding the generator segment or opposing the generator segment? I dont have a scope to find out.

[sampojo]

Exciting stuff

neurons firing up a bit I see. Nice job UFO! Right under our noses, eh? well excuse me while I try to stay afloat here and keep mine above water level... As soon as I get those taxes done and hold off those doctors, I will see what I can get to! Almost done with my baldor commutators, but I am getting an antsy feeling the old winding might be obsolete. Looks like it still one pole to one commutator connection... Just needs developed for more poles as you mention.

[iankoglin]

G'Day shylo;252697
You wrote here and my replies in Magenta and RED
Hi All ,I would like to attempt winding this motor, but I only have a ten pole, but should be able to follow Kogs diagram?
I would just have twice as many pairs.??
Also I don't understand brush placement , Kogs your pic ,do you feed top com with positive of battery , negative on bottom com?
And then there is a second brush on top com and another on bottom com used for generation collection?

Yes just as UFO stated to keep things standard we have the positive coming in from the TOP the drive end of the motor as I showed in writing at the top of my pic
Also as the commutator rotates the Power brushes on contact with the particular comm segment feed this Motor/Armature coil and drive the motor causing the power brushes to leave this comm segment then this coil then become a generator and when this comm segment reaches the Generator Brushes they collect the generated power.


I'm obviously missing something....can this motor be driven with just a battery for supply or does it require some form of electronic circuitry , to control input feed?

You can use just a battery to run these machines BUT it is more efficient to use a PWM driven Mosfet driver, you can use the one UFO shared with us it is easy to build but I believe that the JS Monster is more efficient but harder to build in any case for starters either one will work here I am using JS's Monster to run my Bicycle motor but in my Nessie(Tricycle) I am using UFO's Mosfet driver because he asked me to do my tests with it on this Chinese 1000w motor and I will continue using it as the tests for my part is using the motor in a real application to show all my friends and sceptics that these motors DO WORK and I am not a MAD scientist.

If when powering pair 1 creating a North electro-magnet, then it rotates and the power is shut off, does P1 now become a South electro-magnet, due to the collapsing field?

Yes I believe that any time a current is applied (The brush touches the commutator segment)to an Inductor in this case (the winding on the armature) an opposing current is immediately dropped across that inductor in the exact opposite direction and as soon as the applied current is CUT (the brush passes the commutator segment) this opposing current continues for a split second and as it is in the opposite direction the Polarity of the winding is also changed to the opposite to what was first intended

Looking forward to your more detailed info, Hopefully I can do a replication.

I am sure you can replicate just as you are doing now first get things straight in your mind and then you will understand what you are doing


Thanks to All especially UFO for the efforts put forward.
artv

We here want all Replicator's to succeed

Kindest Regards

Kogs Just trying to help

[shylo]

Brush locations

Hello my Dear Friend Kogs

For a better communication, we should keep considering the start winding at driving end of shaft, where we apply the Positive to Input Gates.


Ufopolitics

Hi All ,I would like to attempt winding this motor, but I only have a ten pole,but should be able to follow Kogs diagram?
I would just have twice as many pairs.??
Also I don't understand brush placement , Kogs your pic ,do you feed top com with positive of battery , negative on bottom com?
And then there is a second brush on top com and another on bottom com used for generation collection?

I'm obviously missing something....can this motor be driven with just a battery for supply or does it require some form of electronic circuitry , to control input feed?
If when powering pair 1 creating a North electro-magnet, then it rotates and the power is shut off, does P1 now become a South electro-magnet, due to the collapsing field?

Looking forward to your more detailed info, Hopefully I can do a replication.

Thanks to All especially UFO for the efforts put forward.
artv

[mikec_ut]

My Thoughts Exactlly

UFO,
Good job on your method of re-booting your motor design. I had this same thought about a month ago about the Magnetic Field is not the physical object of wire and core or some material with a permanent alignment of atoms but those objects project an influence into the space surrounding that object. This influence is what we call the Magnetic Field. I did not realize that Bruce De Palma taught a similar concept. If we go back and look we would probably find that Tesla and others found the same concept but did not explain it in easy terms.

I think you are on the right path. I did build an original concept from the Vid Forum to verify the concept of rotating ring magnets, in fact it does work you do get power with no coils. I used a hard disc platter between my ring magnets. Very interesting.

I am looking forward to your new design, I only have one RS motor. Time to get another one.

[Ufopolitics]

Magnetic Fields...

Hello to All,

The phenomenon of direct extraction of electrical energy from space has a simple explanation based on a re-interpretation of magnetism. Heretofore, it has been believed that the magnetic field comes from the magnet. The phenomenon of the magnetic field can also be explained by positing a primordial energy field, which, in the first order is uniform and homogeneus. The highly isotropic condition of the material of the magnet, if it be the permanent variety, or the condition created by the passage of electric current through a solenoid,causes a distortion of the isotropic spatial field which we know as magnetism. Passing a conducting wire through the spatial distortion adjacent to the pole of a magnet elicits the electric potential across the ends of the wire. Field magnets in electric generators do not run down nor does more electrical excitation need to be applied no matter how much energy is being drawn from the machine. This is because the generated electrical energy is being drawn from the spatial distortion created by the field magnets.

The drag and energy penalty of the conventional two piece induction electrical generator arises from the incomplete understanding of magnetism and the nature of the magnetic field. If we accept the notion that all electricity generation arises from distortion of a primordial energy field than we could look to methods of creating the appropriate distortion and concomitant energy generation without invoking Lenz's Law.

Bruce De Palma

On a brief recollection of my studies about Magnetic Fields, that go back to old books from Faraday first Experiments...and with the great help and development of Bruce De Palma...May His Soul Rest in Peace.

On the following explanation, We must think ONLY about the Magnetic Field and NOT the Magnet...or the Electromagnet composed by Copper Coils and steel cores...those are just the "Generators" or "Pumps" of the Magnetic Fields.

For a better understanding let's imagine a Magnet or Electromagnet as a Pump...a Liquid Pump...and let's imagine the "liquid" to be a mixture of Gaseous and a Viscous Liquid Alloy...with a "special" capacity to defy gravitational forces and hover, linger around SPACE, and ONLY Limited by another viscous Spatial agent called the Ether.

A Pump has a High Pressure Gate where it exhaust, ejects, projects the pumped substance...and another Gate to Suck, Vacuum that substance from a "Source"...when we apply this to a Magnet, our Norths would be the High Pressure Gate...and our South the Low Pressure SUCTION Gate...knowing this facts, would be much better to understand all this.

Imagine We design a Pump System...where every certain nano seconds of repeated/recycling intervals of time...we subtract/suck empty that pump...in order that to "re-start" it needs to re-fill all their inner "SPIRAL" conducts with the pumped liquid, in order to build an INTERNAL OPERATING PRESSURE...wouldn't this be a very INEFFICIENT SYSTEM?


Wouldn't it be a MUCH BETTER SYSTEM, if those Inner Conducts on our Pump, stay full of fluid...in order that a MINIMAL "Push" will create/generate the desired pressure?

If We use in a Motor, the pressure ejected from those several pumps, to direct/project their potential at Stators, which are also composed of Pressure and Suction Gates...wouldn't it be better... not to have Suction Gates rotating "Mixed Up" with Pressure Gates...sucking, therefore weakening, the High Pressure executing process to achieve rotation DIRECTLY with Stators?

After making all this development, I realized all this "interference" we have been designing our machines with for such a long time...involving this transparent, but very important and ESSENTIAL agent, called the Magnetic Field.

By understanding this...We now can "Route" our In-Out Flow Gates to the perfect Patterns that mix/fuse/adapt much better with our rotation forces vectors...creating SPATIAL UNIFORM VORTEXES where the Energy flows without crashing or creating unnecessary suctions at the wrong timings and the wrong SPATIAL positioning.

On this designs I rather keep using NORTH ENDS to Interact with Stators End (for sake of clarity and understanding)...and re-routing/re-directing SOUTH GATES to the Inner end (Shaft) of this Machines....even though it would be very simple to REVERT the whole process by swapping the Input Polarities...and observing behavior of machine...

This Concepts and learning about Magnetic Fields, would not only be "applicable" to Electrodynamic Machines...but also to Gravitational Fields that would allow Us to directly interact, and learn how to "balance/play" with Gravity Forces...and very inexpensive to run...


Regards to All


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Perfect!

G'day UFO
I am trying to get my mind around what you are saying

I have modified this drawing would you please peruse this and see If I have got it right



If I have it right then I have some Goldmine 5 pole motors I would like to try first

Kindest Regards

Kogs wanting to advance

Hello my Dear Friend Kogs,


That is exactly right...no more CW and CCW in one Pair or Coil...this time we are "redirecting" all Souths to the same SPATIAL side of the VORTEX...

This Motors start at certain low amp draw...then, after few seconds we see a reduction over that already low start draw...and if we disconnect and re-connect we notice a super low decrease...and reaching back is instant to running amp draw.

Another interesting attribute is to observe that rotor keeps spinning for a bit when power is cut off...not happening with other model, that "brakes" like having a hydraulic disc-caliper design...

For a better communication, we should keep considering the start winding at driving end of shaft, where we apply the Positive to Input Gates.

I will post better drawings with better explanations later on.


Kind Regards Friend


Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

Exactly Right

Hello ufo,
thanks for presenting this.
Is my understanding correct, that in the position you depicted, coil-pair 1 would be fired/energized (see attached image)?
With the result, that the energized north-pole(s) of rotor-coil-pair 1 will
- repel from the north-pole of stator and SIMULTANEOUSLY
- be attracted to the south-pole of stator?

Is this what will happen ?

Hello Marxist,

That is exactly how it works, and we must use this Interaction as a MODULAR way to transfer them and MULTIPLY them to greater number of Poles Machines.

edit:
I just read your last post again and I found you have already answered it:

So I guess it's true: The fired coil-pair interacts with both stator poles, producing simultaneous attraction and repulsion, with both effects (attraction and repulsion) creating torque.

If this is correct so far, is it then also correct that once the rotor has turned half way or 180° that this same coil pair 1 will be fired again, but with reversed polarity and thus will create magnetic south poles (radiating outward as previously did the north poles) which will cause
- repulsion from the south-pole of stator and SIMULTANEOUS
- attraction to the north-pole of stator?

In my development of this new approach I have built an ALL NORTH Little RS Motor...No South Poles interacting at all...it works, but it does not generate great output (was expected), plus the magnetic friction of all same nature, invokes higher amperage draw to keep "filling the pumps"...

All experiments and tests, no matter if they are NOT successful, but a complete Failure, allow Us to define a better path to understanding, correcting our direction into more perfect definitions.


Regards


Ufopolitics

[Zardox]

Makes me think of like a newman motor or a bedini window motor but with multiple poles.

[iankoglin]

G'day UFO
I am trying to get my mind around what you are saying

I have modified this drawing would you please peruse this and see If I have got it right



If I have it right then I have some Goldmine 5 pole motors I would like to try first

Kindest Regards

Kogs wanting to advance

[marxist]

wich coil-pair is firing ?

Hello ufo,
thanks for presenting this.
Is my understanding correct, that in the position you depicted, coil-pair 1 would be fired/energized (see attached image)?
With the result, that the energized north-pole(s) of rotor-coil-pair 1 will
- repel from the north-pole of stator and SIMULTANEOUSLY
- be attracted to the south-pole of stator?

Is this what will happen ?

edit:
I just read your last post again and I found you have already answered it:

...vivid dark Blues are being fired...while lighter blues are off the brushes...

So I guess it's true: The fired coil-pair interacts with both stator poles, producing simultaneous attraction and repulsion, with both effects (attraction and repulsion) creating torque.

If this is correct so far, is it then also correct that once the rotor has turned half way or 180° from the depicted position, that this same coil pair 1 will be fired again, but with reversed polarity and thus will create magnetic south poles (radiating outward as previously did the north poles) which will cause
- repulsion from the south-pole of stator and SIMULTANEOUS
- attraction to the north-pole of stator?

[Cornboy 555]

Hello UFO, et al, i have been following your new direction from the sidelines, because of my workload, and have to say that old, is the new, new. There is so much that has been deliberatly kept from us mere mortals.

As ssenergy said "everything happens for a reason", i firmly believe that.

I have been hesitating winding, my 36 pole rotor, 6 stator all electromagnet motor for a while now.

When you have the time UFO, could you please have a think about the best possible way to move forward whith my scratch motor. i don't mind making a new design rotor, 3 pole or 6 pole, not a problem!.

Best Regards, Friends, Cornboy.