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  • Midaztouch
    replied
    Originally posted by joel321 View Post
    Gchilders, sampojo,

    Thanks for the information. I think i'm going to go ahead and experiment...yes I am a tool junkie so I own a lot of tools (my thing) but I also know where to buy just the motors....thanks I will experiment.

    FWIT, I'm loving the brushless technology in portable drills that many tools are coming out with...keep up the good work guys.

    Peace.
    Hi Joel

    Since you like brushless, check out UFOs asymmetric brushless motor videos part 1 & 2
    It's our future focus

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JmTxv1pWFaQ

    Keep it Clean and Green
    Midaz
    Last edited by Midaztouch; 04-18-2014, 03:47 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • joel321
    replied
    Gchilders, sampojo,

    Thanks for the information. I think i'm going to go ahead and experiment...yes I am a tool junkie so I own a lot of tools (my thing) but I also know where to buy just the motors....thanks I will experiment.

    FWIT, I'm loving the brushless technology in portable drills that many tools are coming out with...keep up the good work guys.

    Peace.

    Leave a comment:


  • sampojo
    replied
    RE2 Joel

    Originally posted by joel321 View Post
    Hello all just recently started learning about asymmetric motors. Very very interesting....just a newbie question if some would give me the pleasure to answer.

    If I build one of these motor for a cordless drill (dewalt 18V) will I see many improvements or is this more for big motors...thanks.
    Its for any and everything, all would be better. But you would have to redesign the entire drill to take advantage. It takes parts of 2 motors to build one and it usually bigger than before with brushes on both ends of the motor. (although this thread has run motors with commutators all on one side). the redesigned motor will not fit in the same footprint.

    We are an international design team working out of garages to build electric motors superior in every way compared to corporations with computer aided maunfacturing and engineering teams. We scramble just to build one at a time. Join the effort.

    Build a small hobby conversion as documented at the beginning only use the group windings Ufo is proposing now. Then build bigger. When you have a good demo model make an appointment with a local electric motor company, show them what you have and go into production...
    Last edited by sampojo; 04-18-2014, 02:36 AM.

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  • GChilders
    replied
    Acceleration under load on larger motors

    @ufoPolitics

    ufo I was wondering if perhaps the reason that you are not seeing more acceleration under load on the larger motors was that the load is too light. Instead of using a turn signal bulb, try using a halogen head lamp bulb and see if a larger load gives greater acceleration. It would be an easy and interesting test and may give unexpected results. Wouldn't it be great if the larger motors would accelerate more the larger the load that is put on it?

    Cheers

    Garry

    Leave a comment:


  • GChilders
    replied
    small motors

    @joel321

    The thing to do is what most of us have done. Get 2 radio shack 5 pole motors or 2 gold mine motors at 3.5 each or so and modify them and answer your own question. Are you willing to sacrifice 2 18V cordless drills at about 150 - 200 dollars each on an experiment that you have no confidence in? I would happily do that after all of the motors that I have replicated and can answer with certainty that they will improve in performance. But you must remember that the motors will probably not fit back in the cases they came out of after they are altered. Their rotors will have 2 commutators instead of one and 2 pairs of brushes instead of one pair. If you have a lot of cordless drills that are of the same brand and rotors commutators are the same then, and they are broken then by all means use them to make a replication. Try it, you will like it.

    Cheers

    Garry

    Leave a comment:


  • joel321
    replied
    Hello all just recently started learning about asymmetric motors. Very very interesting....just a newbie question if some would give me the pleasure to answer.

    If I build one of these motor for a cordless drill (dewalt 18V) will I see many improvements or is this more for big motors...thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Midaztouch
    replied
    UFO

    Thank you! Got it


    Keep it Clean and Green
    Midaz
    Last edited by Midaztouch; 04-20-2014, 02:01 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    Originally posted by Zardox View Post
    Hi Midaz
    -I am going to try and answer that in order to test my own understanding of what UFO has just presented. In the above diagram he stated that it was very important that the leading rotor bisector must not be aligned with the stator bisector. I believe if you added a fifth coil to the group you would have exactly that problem.


    Originally posted by Midaztouch View Post
    Zardox

    There are a few ways to wind the groups with the 20 pole. I'm try to understand the magnetic fields. The alignment with the stator would be timing. I guess this is a case of red apples vs green apples. There are the same but different.

    Keep it Clean and Green
    Midaz

    PS. I like green apples

    Hello Zardox and Midas,


    I have done this simple Diagram where I wrap five poles per coil in just two of the Groups...let's look at it.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    One thing I want to make clear...is that IT WILL WORK like this...with Five Poles, as this way this machine would be faster than the Four Poles Coils, just because the Throw Out Angles are bigger...or magnetic fields are wider than a four...

    What I do not like is that G2 Last Coil (4) Bisector is too close to stator S1 Center or Bisector of its Curve...and if you notice I had to turn Commutator and Poles a bit to achieve best timing...this angles we must calculate an approach under Higher RPM's.

    Consider also it will add a bit more resistance since longer horizontal wires...than the four.

    Only way to know is to try both ways...same embodiment, then evaluate results.

    However, I see this part as the Structural side of the build...while we rather concentrate on keeping analyzing the effects of acceleration under load and other ones as connections without jumpers...just using the two Inputs and collecting from two outputs...etc,etc.


    Regards


    Ufopolitics

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  • shylo
    replied
    Perfect

    Hi All, The lay-out for the 20 pole is bang on.
    The only thing is, I think the timing is off by one tooth.??
    The timing needs to advance ,...after it's up to speed. (variable)

    UFO, You are right ,....You cannot tie the grounds together.
    This was why I was getting acceleration under load. I was pulling more amps , for the added load , thus speeding up the motor,...more amps were traveling?

    They can't be tied together , but can you feed the collapse of one to the other??
    artv

    Leave a comment:


  • Midaztouch
    replied
    Originally posted by Zardox View Post
    Hi Midaz
    -I am going to try and answer that in order to test my own understanding of what UFO has just presented. In the above diagram he stated that it was very important that the leading rotor bisector must not be aligned with the stator bisector. I believe if you added a fifth coil to the group you would have exactly that problem.
    Zardox

    There are a few ways to wind the groups with the 20 pole. I'm try to understand the magnetic fields. The alignment with the stator would be timing. I guess this is a case of red apples vs green apples. They are the same but different.

    Keep it Clean and Green
    Midaz

    PS. I prefer green apples
    Last edited by Midaztouch; 04-18-2014, 12:45 AM. Reason: Spelling

    Leave a comment:


  • Zardox
    replied
    Bisectors

    Hi Midaz
    -I am going to try and answer that in order to test my own understanding of what UFO has just presented. In the above diagram he stated that it was very important that the leading rotor bisector must not be aligned with the stator bisector. I believe if you added a fifth coil to the group you would have exactly that problem.

    Leave a comment:


  • Midaztouch
    replied
    Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
    Good question Midaz,

    It is not a Mistake...I have realized the Five Pole for each coil in the Group of my previous 20 Pole Diagram will bring too close, widen too much the Rotor North Bisectors Angles...and I feel more comfortable with Four...


    Thanks


    Ufopolitics
    I know you didn't make a mistake.


    My thoughts are in the difference between amperage and voltage output. Which would give you a stronger amps output, groups of 4 or Groups of 5?

    Keep it Clean and Green
    Midaz
    Last edited by Midaztouch; 04-17-2014, 01:09 AM.

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  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    Groups of Five Poles on a 20 Poles...

    Originally posted by Midaztouch View Post
    UFO

    What are your thoughts on the groups of 5?


    Keep it Clean and Green
    Midaz
    Good question Midaz,

    It is not a Mistake...I have realized the Five Pole for each coil in the Group of my previous 20 Pole Diagram will bring too close, widen too much the Rotor North Bisectors Angles...and I feel more comfortable with Four...


    Thanks


    Ufopolitics

    Leave a comment:


  • Midaztouch
    replied
    UFO

    What are your thoughts on the groups of 5?


    Keep it Clean and Green
    Midaz

    Leave a comment:


  • Ufopolitics
    replied
    Four Stators, All North Asymmetric Analysis...

    Hello to All,

    Below is a 20 Pole, All North, Four Stator Asymmetric Machine...

    [IMG][/IMG]

    I have just displayed the Two Groups Interacting at Each Motor Brushes...So We have G1-G2 being energized by Motor-1 Brushes , as also G11-G12 at Motor-2 Brushes, apart by 180...All Four Groups are projecting North towards Stators, creating a simultaneous Repulse-Attract action.

    I have detailed G1 by showing Coil (1) on both ends, in order to realize is in charge to create the closest point of Repulsion against Stator N1...While Coil(4) is "the furthest" of the Group, towards South Stator S1...therefore creating the closest Attraction on S1.

    It is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT at this specific point, where TWO GROUPS are making Contact...that we Observe G2 (or any numbered Group which is "Ahead" or in "Progression" according to Rotation R) and MAKE SURE...the furthest Coil CENTER/BISECTOR is NOT ALIGNED with Stator Bisector (S1) while contacting Brush-Comm Element...verifying G2 DISCONNECTS BEFORE REACHING S1 CENTER....Once this is done in just one Group Coil, ALL Others will fall within same sequence.

    Finally I have shown the Two South Fields this Four Groups are generating towards center shaft...defined by two arrows areas pointing center shaft.

    Now let's look at what happens when Generating Coils comes into play...

    [IMG][/IMG]

    In the above Diagram I have Incorporated the TWO GROUPS ON EACH SIDE (G6/G7-G16/G17)that HAVE BEEN DISCONNECTED FROM INPUT, and are entering/leaving respectively, GEN-1 and GEN-2 Brushes.

    FIRST, We must realize that this Groups are "swinging Voltages" while disconnected from Source/Input, towards a REVERSED polarity that WILL FAVOR a Generation of a SOUTH FIELD projecting towards Stators "Naturally", meaning "Not Forced"...

    SECOND, We must "see" (not shown on Diagram though) the Two B FIELDS VECTORS that are there at all time between N2 to S1, and between N1 towards S2...If We then note Rotation R, those Groups are traveling towards those Two B Fields, Inducing a Current that would generate Opposite B Fields (Lenz)...then they will ALL in Generation Stage will become South projecting towards Stators...and North towards Center Shaft...This effect will "Open a Gate" for the Two Repelling South Fields coming out of Groups at Input/Motor Stage...So, a REDIRECTION/DIVERTING of SOUTH Fields will take place here...being Attracted by the Inner Norths...REINFORCING the Generated by Induction OUTER South Poles on the Green Groups...assisting Rotation, instead of opposing it.

    THIRD, We then must realize that by adding ANY Closed circuit Load at this GEN GROUPS will be closing the Coils into a Loop or strengthening their South Fields Forces...then an Acceleration Under Load will occur when we do that...no magic...just a simple "fooling" of opposed B FIELDS, plus the correct timing in Space positioning...

    RESUMING:

    1-When We disconnect a Coil/Inductor (or Collapse) we could say -not to create confusion nor arguments again- that Inductor/Coil "Becomes Less North" when it "swings" its voltage polarity at terminals.

    2-By Coils being all North, same direction, both will become South...when passing through an Exciting Field (Stators)...that Induction flow, "favors" the collapsing swinging of voltage.

    Therefore, at least two favorable occurrences here are assisting rotation, then finally closing up/looping Coils at that moment will strengthen magnetic field, South in this case.

    Finally, let's review our older method to wind...where we had a North and a South Coils in each of the Pairs...The advantages are clear...only "Half of the Pairs" (or those North) will benefit rotation under load.

    Still We have to keep making further testing on this type of Machines...and only building them We will get to find out...


    Regards to All


    Ufopolitics
    Last edited by Ufopolitics; 04-17-2014, 12:51 AM.

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