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Is Spacetime Flat or Curved ?

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  • Is Spacetime Flat or Curved ?

    Many cosmologists believe that '' spacetime is curved ''
    ====
    The spacetime (as whole ) is cold continuum.
    The light travels in this continuum in a straight line.
    But near the hot masses of stars light can be curved.
    Not spacetime curves but the movement of light is curved by hot masses.
    #
    Sun changes the road of light like a car changes its movement by road
    but Euclidian geometry of Earth remains unchanged.
    #
    Sun (and its surrounded space) curves the straight movement of light quanta,
    but the geometry of Pseudo Euclidian (Minkovski ) spacetime remains unchanged.

    =====================
    Israel Sadovnik Socratus

  • #2
    I think the math is easier if space is flat and fixed,
    and you see the speed of time changing in various areas
    if mass creates a slower time field, then the bending starlight and gravity makes perfect sense

    even if it is really going on, trying to figure out what is going on when you link space and time, then assume they are curved, it just does not get you much answers.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by spacecase0 View Post
      I think the math is easier if space is flat and fixed,
      and you see the speed of time changing in various areas
      if mass creates a slower time field, then the bending starlight and gravity makes perfect sense

      even if it is really going on, trying to figure out what is going on when you link space and time, then assume they are curved, it just does not get you much answers.
      The speed of time changing in various areas of masses:
      every planet has its own time.

      Comment


      • #4
        Local Curvature of Space
        According to Einsteinís theory of general relativity, massive objects warp
        the spacetime around them, and the effect a warp has on objects is what we call gravity.
        So, locally, spacetime is curved around every object with mass.

        Curvature of Space | Is space flat or curved?

        Only '' around every (local - hot) object with mass.'' light is curved.
        The mass-objects in the universe (as whole) is very few.
        Therefore the universe (as whole) is a flat spacetime (vacuum) continuum.

        ===================================
        Attached Files

        Comment


        • #5
          if space is curved, then things are good,
          if time is curved, then things are good,
          but how does mixing the 2 of them together and seeing it as not separable help us at all ?
          exclusively using the term spacetime seems to be just like using electromagnetism for all it encompasses,
          just think, what if we only referred to a light bulb as converting electromagnetism into electromagnetism. although accurate, it does not help when we say the same description about a radio transmitter. seeing things that way does not let you tell an infrared heater from a light bulb, or a radio transmitter, or tell them apart from a mirror
          I am just saying that we can do better than some nebulous thing (spacetime) that some theoretical guy came up with long ago. especially when what NASA calls the "impossible drive" is going to need a new viewpoint to show what is going on in reality

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          • #6
            Originally posted by spacecase0 View Post
            I am just saying that we can do better than some nebulous thing (spacetime)
            that some theoretical guy came up with long ago. especially when what NASA
            calls the "impossible drive" is going to need a new viewpoint to show
            what is going on in reality
            If ''is going to need a new viewpoint to show what is going on in reality''
            then this new / very old viewpoint can be only vacuum because all
            different objects and all different waves act in vacuum.
            (one of vacuum's name is spacetime because in vacuum space and time are united)

            ========

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            • #7
              I agree that the new ideas are actually old,

              if the terms are not defined, or not defined well,
              then I suggest that we start defining them
              the idea that there is a time field (just like electric and magnetic fields) seems to solve lots of issues. but there is sure more to figure out good definitions for

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by spacecase0 View Post
                I agree that the new ideas are actually old,

                if the terms are not defined, or not defined well,
                then I suggest that we start defining them
                the idea that there is a time field (just like electric and magnetic fields) seems
                to solve lots of issues. but there is sure more to figure out good definitions for
                a)
                '' a time field'' can exist only in gravity systems.
                b)
                There's nothing new thing under the sun -- except maybe light itself.

                https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...1102141857.htm

                And, maybe, the new idea about light is also actually old and
                we can only give a new clothes to an old idea.

                ================================
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • #9
                  Gravity / time

                  Originally posted by socratus View Post
                  a)
                  '' a time field'' can exist only in gravity systems.
                  =======
                  Where (and/or when) would you (or anything) be in a non-gravity system?

                  Perhaps at (or just beyond) the edge of the Universe. But at that point, what's the point? O.K. So maybe time doesn't exist outside our universe. So what?

                  I think I get it. You're saying time exist everywhere. Right?

                  bi

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                  • #10
                    I would suggest that a time field is made slower by mass
                    we have seen tests that show that time is slower on earth than in space
                    so just like diffraction changes the direction of light,
                    an uneven time field makes things move to the slower time field

                    so it is an uneven time field that is the cause of gravity

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                    • #11
                      Gravity / time

                      Originally posted by spacecase0 View Post
                      I would suggest that a time field is made slower by mass
                      we have seen tests that show that time is slower on earth than in space
                      so just like diffraction changes the direction of light,
                      an uneven time field makes things move to the slower time field

                      so it is an uneven time field that is the cause of gravity
                      How about that gravity is force, and not related directly to time? Time is a human concept we use to keep track of sh!t.

                      bi

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I don't mean time as in days
                        I mean a time field, maybe call it a spin field, or a movement field.
                        electricity and magnetism show up at 90 degrees to each other when something is moving, so the other 90 degrees from each of them is movement, take the average amount of movement in an area (usually atoms with internal spin), and that sets the magnitude of this field, I like time field, one person called it a tempic field, but am up for other names
                        this other 90 degrees to electric and magnetic fields can be spinning like in an electric generator, or straight out like with a radio wave at the speed of light
                        see what I am getting at now ?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks for reply

                          Originally posted by spacecase0 View Post
                          I don't mean time as in days
                          I mean a time field, maybe call it a spin field, or a movement field.
                          electricity and magnetism show up at 90 degrees to each other when something is moving, so the other 90 degrees from each of them is movement, take the average amount of movement in an area (usually atoms with internal spin), and that sets the magnitude of this field, I like time field, one person called it a tempic field, but am up for other names
                          this other 90 degrees to electric and magnetic fields can be spinning like in an electric generator, or straight out like with a radio wave at the speed of light
                          see what I am getting at now ?
                          But I don't get it. What do E and M have to do with gravity and / or time?

                          In a generator, EM = F.

                          bi

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            in an electric motor or electric generation
                            there are 3 components, any 2 will at 90 degrees cause the 3rd at the 3rd 90 degrees. they are:
                            magnetism, electricity, motion
                            I am sure you already know this.
                            what I am saying is that they are all field forces
                            the average motion in an area sets this motion field value
                            so maybe call it a motion field then ?
                            movement is typically spin in nature. so that is why I also said it could be called a spin field.
                            but whatever you call it, it is a field force
                            and it is set by the total value of all the motion in an area (this is all the spin of the atoms, planets, and any spin you have created on your own)
                            the totaled motion field sets the speed of light in an area, and mostly set how fast our clocks run
                            how this is linked to gravity is that when this field is running faster in one side and slower on another side, it takes more time for the internal spin of an atom to complete on the slow side, so it tends to move to the slow side, because the atoms make a motion field by just existing, matter tends to fall together. and that effect is gravity

                            not sure if I answered your question well enough. but not sure how else to put it

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Holiday break

                              Originally posted by spacecase0 View Post
                              in an electric motor ...
                              magnetism, electricity, motion...
                              EM = F

                              I don't see motion.

                              Oh well. Carry on. I'll sit and watch.

                              Merry Christmas or happy holiday whatever your belief may be. Peace

                              bi

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