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about the Ferrocell (ferrolens)

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  • about the Ferrocell (ferrolens)

    I don't know what happened to my previous thread, but here goes again:

    I'm moving the ferrocell discussion here, away from Ken's thread because it's kinda off topic.

    Questions, Queries, Posers, Comments?

  • #2
    Ferrocell image

    Originally posted by dyetalon View Post
    ...
    I'm moving the ferrocell discussion here, away from Ken's thread because it's kinda off topic.

    Questions, Queries, Posers, Comments?
    Hi dyetalon,

    Thanks for starting this thread. I'd like to start where you left off in Ufopolitic's thread (about Ken's work).

    Originally posted by dyetalon View Post
    I'd like to move this conversation to the General area and leave Kens discussion. I started a new thread there but is not appearing yet.

    For now, open your imagination into a situation where two phases cancel out.
    That leaves nothing. Now you turn on a light. Then you see the "nothing".

    Its the lowest potential. Zero point. The Bloch region.
    Please elaborate. What is it?

    What do you mean using "Bloch"? All credible references which I can find on Bloch wall, Bloch region, Bloch line, or Bloch point puts the feature on the size scale of domains (micrometer scale) or smaller to the atomic or even subatomic scale.

    Then, I have my imagination open and see "nothing". Is that it? How does it apply to the image from the ferrocell?

    Regards,

    bi

    Edit: for reference on Bloch
    http://www.energeticforum.com/309920-post945.html

    http://www.energeticforum.com/309922-post946.html
    Last edited by bistander; 05-14-2018, 04:06 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by bistander View Post
      Hi dyetalon,

      Thanks for starting this thread. I'd like to start where you left off in Ufopolitic's thread (about Ken's work).



      Please elaborate. What is it?

      What do you mean using "Bloch"? All credible references which I can find on Bloch wall, Bloch region, Bloch line, or Bloch point puts the feature on the size scale of domains (micrometer scale) or smaller to the atomic or even subatomic scale.

      Then, I have my imagination open and see "nothing". Is that it? How does it apply to the image from the ferrocell?

      Regards,

      bi

      Edit: for reference on Bloch
      http://www.energeticforum.com/309920-post945.html

      http://www.energeticforum.com/309922-post946.html
      The Bloch region is where North turns into South another way of looking at it: where the 'field' reverses polarity.
      From Wikipedia: "A Bloch wall is a narrow transition region at the boundary between magnetic domains, over which the magnetization changes from its value in one domain to that in the next, named after the physicist Felix Bloch. The magnetization rotates out of the plane of the domain wall, in contrast to Néel walls".

      Perpendicular to the light source- LIKE THIS:





      You can read further about the Neel wall, domains etc. But we're dealing with fields around particles much smaller than a domain and its a relatively new direction for research.

      Now lets talk about potential. Potential is like the lake holding water for the town to use. Until its used, it is only potential. Same thing with a static (stationary) magnetic field. It has a measurable potential. Now if you move the magnet relative to a ferrous metal or a coil of wire, the potential becomes induced and 'electrons' flow thru the conductive circuit.

      What if we were to take the contents of our lake and 'subtract the water' by inverting the potential of the lake and adding it to the non-inverted potential?
      We have zero. And that what we are measuring (visually and with test equipment) with a Ferrocell. We are adding two out of phase fields (N-S), and where they cancel out equals zero. This is the point of minimum potential.

      When you bring light into the 'zero' area, the light will 'scatter' in the zero area and will appear as a band from the source to the magnet and back to the source. It actually makes a Zero. This explanation is what convinced the patent examiners (yes two of them) at the Patent Office to grant my patent.
      Let me add here the width of the 'band' will be directly proportional to the width of the source light. So we're filling in the 'zero' with light.

      Parallel to the light source- SEE:



      This is two small cylinder magnets next to a tiny incandescent lamp (direct rays blocked by black paper) setting below a 50mm cell.

      ANYONE KNOW HOW TO MAKE MY PIX SMALLER?
      Last edited by dyetalon; 05-15-2018, 12:23 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by dyetalon View Post

        ANYONE KNOW HOW TO MAKE MY PIX SMALLER?


        Just quote my post and copy link...below is bigger (1024X768) if you like...



        Do not know if in your pic server you could resize images on the direct links.

        Regards


        Ufopolitics
        Last edited by Ufopolitics; 05-15-2018, 02:12 AM.
        Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.― Leonardo da Vinci

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        • #5
          [QUOTE=Ufopolitics;
          Ufopolitics[/QUOTE]

          Thanks for the info.

          I was wondering if there was some formatting I could apply when I link the image to set the size. Guess I'll have to make sure they're 800x600 on my server.

          Comment


          • #6
            I think this will further add to the discussion...

            http://www.energeticforum.com/310243-post1085.html
            MSc. Electronic and Computer Engineering, TUC, Greece
            MSc. VLSI Systems Engineering, UMIST, U.K.
            BSc. Electronic Systems Engineering, Victoria Univ. Manchester & UMIST

            Comment


            • #7
              My proposition for the Ferrocell vs Iron filings debate

              Ferrofluid ferrimagnetic and superparamgnetic thin film inside the ferrocell aligns parallel to the external magnetic field therefore the magnetic image produced is a perfect copy of the flux of the field under observation.

              Iron filings are attracted by the strongest nearest pole of a magnet thus attracted only by the two strongest potentials of the field of a magnet meaning its two poles, therefore only depicting the N-S axis direction of a magnet and unable to depict the complete flux of the field which has much more than two potentials! They are really just compasses pointing only at the strongest magnetic potential found in an area and unsuitable for any flux observation.

              That's all really.

              And I will not continue this debate in this thread here.

              This thread I believe must be dedicted solely to the Ferrocell (ferrolens).

              EM
              MSc. Electronic and Computer Engineering, TUC, Greece
              MSc. VLSI Systems Engineering, UMIST, U.K.
              BSc. Electronic Systems Engineering, Victoria Univ. Manchester & UMIST

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dyetalon View Post
                Thanks for the info.

                I was wondering if there was some formatting I could apply when I link the image to set the size. Guess I'll have to make sure they're 800x600 on my server.
                https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/foru...ge-with-bbcode

                Comment


                • #9
                  YES ! That's what I was looking for. Good old VBcode.
                  Thanks mikrovolt. This will make life easier.

                  And in response to ricards post on Kens thread:
                  A ferrofluid in sandwiched in a glass with lights below.. but this time..
                  It should have a SLOT in the middle of it for a magnet to go through..
                  Here's a cell I built for Michael Snyder 10 years ago when he was writing his Undergraduate Thesis on the cell for his Masters degree:



                  He put a cylinder magnet in the center (wrapped with black cloth) and took a series of pix, this being one of them:



                  Ring of 36 RGB LEDs around the edge of the cell.
                  I'll ask him if he made any videos of the magnet moving thru the cell center.
                  Back then, LEDs weren't very bright so the lines are not as clear like a modern cell displays.
                  Oh, it was a real b*tch getting the center area sealed!
                  Last edited by dyetalon; 05-15-2018, 01:17 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Markoul View Post
                    EM
                    I think we should discuss the difference between ferromagnetism and ferrimagnetism. Maybe this will help understand whats going on in the cell.

                    Here's the ordering in different materials and a link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_structure

                    What I first notice is the ordering of a ferromagnetic material (All Fe except Fe3O4) is linear in one direction only (iron filings), but the ferrimagnetic material is bi-directional (ferrofluid). There is a major difference in how the light reacts in these two different modes. Bi-directionality has the proper vectors to provide cancellation, where uni-directional materials do not.

                    This is what I refer to when I speak of phase cancellation (N minus S) occurring in the cell. If we graph a magnetic field, we obtain a peak at positive maximum (North) and a peak at negative maximum (South).
                    It actually resembles a sine-wave (as seen on an oscilloscope). If we break this down into math, we get +180 degrees and -180 degrees.

                    What happens if you add these two together?
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by dyetalon; 05-15-2018, 02:24 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      IMG_20180515_162121.jpg

                      Am I getting anywhere?
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Iamnuts View Post
                        IMG_20180515_162121.jpg

                        Am I getting anywhere?
                        Nope. You're a Standing Wave

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_wave

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ferrofluid

                          Originally posted by dyetalon View Post
                          I think we should discuss the difference between ferromagnetism and ferrimagnetism. Maybe this will help understand whats going on in the cell.

                          Here's the ordering in different materials and a link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_structure

                          ...

                          What happens if you add these two together?

                          Hi dyetalon,

                          Glad to have you join the conversation.

                          From your wiki link:

                          Finally, ferrimagnetism as prototypically displayed by magnetite is in some sense an intermediate case: here the magnetization is globally uncompensated as in ferromagnetism, but the local magnetization points in different directions.


                          From what I've learned, for the purpose of ferrofluid, the ferrimagnetic and ferromagnetic materials behave very similarly when we're not concerned with Curie temperature, saturation magnetization, and permeability. I don't know about the optical properties.

                          Here's an interesting look at ferrofluid (I think).



                          From:
                          https://www.mnn.com/green-tech/resea...trate-magnetic

                          I liked this video from that site.
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvtUt02zVAs

                          [VIDEO]v=PvtUt02zVAs[/VIDEO]

                          Originally posted by dyetalon View Post
                          This is what I refer to when I speak of phase cancellation (N minus S) occurring in the cell. If we graph a magnetic field, we obtain a peak at positive maximum (North) and a peak at negative maximum (South).
                          It actually resembles a sine-wave (as seen on an oscilloscope). If we break this down into math, we get +180 degrees and -180 degrees.

                          What happens if you add these two together?
                          Those little arrows in the diagrams (which I posted from your post) represent magnetic moments of the particles, grains, or domains in the material. The gross magnetic field of a significant quantity of the material is the integral of all those moments. As shown in the diagram, ferrimagnetic material has a "favored" direction of magnetic moments aligned by the external magnetic field therefore, as you put it, the N & S phases, will not totally cancel.

                          So what happens when you "add these two together", you get what looks very much like ferromagnetism. So much so, ferrimagnetism is covered, and iron oxide on the chart, at the wiki article, which is a pretty good explanation.
                          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferromagnetism

                          Regards,

                          bi
                          Attached Files

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Bloch wall

                            I
                            Originally posted by dyetalon View Post
                            ...
                            From Wikipedia: "A Bloch wall is a narrow transition region at the boundary between magnetic domains, over which the magnetization changes from its value in one domain to that in the next, named after the physicist Felix Bloch. The magnetization rotates out of the plane of the domain wall, in contrast to Néel walls".
                            ...
                            Hi dyetalon,

                            Yes, thank you, I read that a few times plus much more on the subject. Notice that the first sentence says the Bloch wall is at the boundary between magnetic domains. Magnetic domains are a fraction of a mm in size, or even um. So an inch size magnet, or piece of ferro/ferrimagnetic material will contain millions of magnetic domains and similar order of magnitude number of domain boundaries of which many are likely to be Bloch walls.

                            Ufo, EM, and other members here believe there is a single Bloch wall in a magnet of handheld size and it separates the N domain from the S domain and is located in the middle and perpendicular to the magnetic axis. Here's my opinion on that:
                            Originally posted by bistander View Post
                            Originally posted by Ufopolitics View Post
                            That's right...that one...the one you called "bad science"...Rawls & Davis book.
                            Here is an example what these authors promote which I call bad science. Found in chapter three:



                            Then they end chapter with what I find disgusting:

                            We are closing chapter three with the discussion and drawings presented only to better explain magnetism, the rate of flow direction, the two poles, the division of the two poles, and the potential force as to the electronic charge potential of each pole. This allows a reference to scientists who may not have continued into the physics of electrodynamics. Students and instructors should attempt to upgrade and correct any older text materials that differ from today's concepts and understandings of the basic of magnetism as presented herein.
                            All because they observed a bubble drifting on a microscope slide between magnets in 1936. From what I call tell, this bad science was the beginning of the misuse of "Bloch wall" and spinning static magnetic fields. The origin of fantasy magnetism.

                            As long as I have started and have the Rawls & Davis diagram shown (attch#1), I'll explain some of what's wrong with it. When you do a Google image search for Bloch magnetic domain wall, you see hundreds of hits most looking like attachment #2.



                            From: Domain Wall Magnetoresistance

                            Now compare the two diagrams. The primary discrepancy is the labeling of the N & S surfaces. The arrows represent particle or crystal dipoles and point to the N end of the dipole. So the surface of the domain to which the arrows (dipoles) point will be the N side (pole) of the domain which is the top left as shown in attch#2. Similarly, the bottom right will be that domain's N making the upper right surface S as indicated in attch#2.

                            Notice in attch#1 that Rawls & Davis apparently misread such a diagram and labeled the end surfaces N and S. This makes a huge difference. They continue bad science assuming they're looking at a diagram of a magnet of handheld size when the domains, of which there are two shown, are but a small fraction of a millimeter in size. And then their third piece of bad science is to assign spin to the magnetism. I won't even touch their ridiculous broken figure 8. The whole deal stinks.

                            Regards,

                            bi

                            Originally posted by dyetalon View Post
                            The Bloch region is where North turns into South another way of looking at it: where the 'field' reverses polarity.
                            ...
                            The "Bloch region" actually has a different meaning used in quantum mechanics at the subatomic level. It was in this field where Felix Bloch was awarded the Nobel Prize. I can only wonder if he rolls in his grave.

                            Regards,

                            bi
                            Last edited by bistander; 05-15-2018, 09:59 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              My purpose is to establish to the world the real geometry of the magnetic field shown by the ferrocell.

                              We did 200 years ago a mistake... it is time to rectify it...

                              Do you understand how significant this is? If we got the geometry of the field wrong this will prevent us from going to the stars!!

                              ...everything changes even the dipole magnetic field of the electron!! to the discovery of dark matter and dark energy domain!!




                              EM
                              MSc. Electronic and Computer Engineering, TUC, Greece
                              MSc. VLSI Systems Engineering, UMIST, U.K.
                              BSc. Electronic Systems Engineering, Victoria Univ. Manchester & UMIST

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