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  #1231  
Old 03-31-2012, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by garrettm4 View Post
Jake,

1) L, Leakage Inductance
Q - "The big magnetic fields that push our motors?"
A - My answer would be a resounding NO, leakage inductance can only store energy it CAN NOT TRANSFER ENERGY, thus it would only act as an IMPEDANCE and not as an ADMITTANCE required for the electrical to mechanical transfer of energy to create motion in a motor. The leakage inductance is the exact thing we try to get rid of when designing a motor, and is not something we usually want. There are times when a small leakage inductance can be helpful, this is only when there is a short circuit and the impedance of the leakage inductance prevents catastrophic failure by LIMITING the current of the short circuit.

2) M, Mutual Inductance
Q - "Energy stored in counterspace/innerspace?"
A - Magnetic energy as explained by Mr. Dollard is stored in Normal Space, not the "counter space" as explained by him. Mutual induction of the magnetic field is that which transfers energy in-between two separate coils, there is no storage of energy here, only the transfer of energy from one distinct coil to another. This topic can be found to yield many interesting and practical insights, but I will leave this subject for another time.

3) C, Leakage Capacitance
Q - "The field created by an electrostatic generator, or in a vacuum capacitor?"
A - Inside the vacuum capacitor there is NO LEAKAGE CAPACITANCE, this is normal SELF CAPACITANCE, although if at high frequency, when small capacities are physically meaningful, there is a leakage capacitance associated with the vacuum capacitors outer plate to ground (or any and all surroundings) (and on the topic of high frequencies, EVERYTHING has an associated leakage capacitance). Furthermore, only "quantum physicists" think a vacuum capacitor operates differently from any other capacitor type, at the end of the day there is little to NO difference, aside from the SPEED of DISCHARGE (which is due to permittivity affecting the manifest "velocity of light"). The electrostatic generator is a highly complex induction machine which converts mechanical energy (or seemingly this is the source) to electrostatic potential stored in a condenser. There may undoubtedly be a leakage capacitance associated with the electrostatic generators operation, but don't try to fool yourself into thinking that (leakage capacity) is the only thing going on during operation.

4) K, Mutual Capacitance
Q - "Energy stored in counterspace/innerspace?"
A -ALL DIELECTRIC ENERGY IS CONSIDERED AS A COUNTER SPATIAL ENERGY. Thus, the storage of dielectric energy is greater when there is MORE counter space for the energy to occupy. This can be looked at as the RECIPROCAL of SPACE or a "large space" divided into the "unit" (1) is an equally large "counter space". This is seen in the design of a capacitor, the closer the plates are the more "storage" or "capacity" the capacitor has, it's that simple.

5) Bonus Question on Capacity of a Wire
Q - "On a 20 secondary with spaced windings does approaching the coil with your hand increase its mutual capacity K, or its self capacity C??? but before you answer think what would happen if you had a long straight wire and could measure it's C. What would happen to the meter if you approached the wire?"
A - This is an interesting question and the answer is dependent upon perspective, how do you plan to measure the capacitance? This question answers your question but doesn't really give an answer, so lets work our way through this. First, ALL METALLIC SURFACES HAVE A DEFINITE CAPACITY REGARDLESS OF BEING REFERENCED WITH ANOTHER METALLIC SURFACE. When we measure a capacity we usually place TWO metallic surfaces of interest as close together as possible, we unwittingly try to make lumped elements. When considering a distributed capacity we generally can no longer use the methods and understanding of lumped elements, here lies the problem of measurement, how do we measure only one surface? Well there are techniques to do this but are beyond the scope of your question and my answer. So more to the point, the measurement of capacity is a problem of reference and THERE ARE MULTIPLE CAPACITIES ASSOCIATED WITH THE WIRE IN YOUR QUESTION and consequently multiple answers. An outstretched wire will have a greater "free-space capacity" while the coiled wire will have a greater self capacity to any-one object. Moving your hand closer increases C (leakage capacity) not K (mutual capacity). K is when there are multiple C's that are mutually connected with one another, or MULTIPLE separate metallic surfaces linked via dielectric flux, this in the secondary is seen in-between turns.

Garrett M
Thank You very much for your time and answers. I think the biggest road block is consistency of terms.

For example mutual capacitance K and mutual inductance M. Eric has units of per Henry and per Farad for these terms.

Do these units agree with your statements?
i.e. when you talk about mutual inductance M, according to your definition is it in units of per/Henry.
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  #1232  
Old 03-31-2012, 07:17 PM
garrettm4 garrettm4 is offline
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Q & A

Jake,

There are NO inconsistency of terms with what Mr. Dollard has given or even the terms used today or 100 years ago. The problem isn't the terms or definitions its personal comprehension of their significance.

Per Farad is the reciprocal of the Farad. If Farad implied an imaginary conductance per unit time then a Per Farad would be an imaginary resistance per unit time. Its that simple. It all comes down to understanding what a reciprocal means in the physical world we live in, not in the imaginary world of math. People should focus on CRITICAL THINKING and not DEEP THINKING.

Per Farad literally means 1/F and the same goes for Per Henry 1/H. Farad literally means F/1 and the same for Henry H/1. We usually don't write things in this context but when doing dimensional analysis it becomes simpler to do it this way. The terms Henry and Farad are usually replaced with L and C for simplicity. Mr. Dollard uses the actual name to give a more meaningful conversation, but at the same time it is a language barrier for those who aren't familiar.

All of this comes down to understanding the "NORMAL" circuit orientation of the arbitrary element in question. This is seen as SHUNT (or PARALLEL) and SERIES arrangements. Capacitors, enductors and conductances are shunt elements, inductors, elastors and resistors are series elements.

If we place a capacitor in a series arrangement it no longer acts as an imaginary conductance per unit time (capacitive-susceptance), it now is an imaginary resistance per unit time (capacitive-reactance). The same goes for an inductance, if we place it in shunt we now have an imaginary conductance per unit time (magnetic-susceptance), not the original imaginary resistance per unit time (magnetic-reactance).

The capacitive and inductive elements are conjugate to one another, their vector forces rotate in opposite directions, if the capacitor acts as a small imaginary resistance and then becomes a large imaginary resistance per unit time, then an inductor acts as a large imaginary resistance then becomes a small imaginary resistance per unit time.

Stated in another way inductive reactance starts out large and then goes small, capacitive reactance starts out small and then goes large. The same goes for the opposite of reactance, susceptance.

The reason the above explanations are meaningful and correct is from the fact that IMAGINARY RESISTANCES AND CONDUCTANCES STORE ENERGY (AND CAN RETURN THAT SAME ENERGY). Thus as a capacitor gets "full" it can't allow anything to flow but at first it acted as a dead short, the opposite is true with an inductor at first it impedes the flow of current because it is building a magnetic field, as the field is built and expanded the current is then progressively less restricted in its flow and reaches its maximum when the field is fully expanded.

One problem I will admit that exists, is the fact that there are MULTIPLE self and mutual inductions of the dielectric and magnetic fields in any given circuit. The root of the problem comes from the fact that the naming of these various direction and situation dependent inductions sometimes overlap and cause a lot of confusion. I will give more details on this later.

I hope this hip-shot explanation (I'm strapped for time at the moment), can serve as a meaningful (albeit lacking) explanation to your question.

Garrett M
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Last edited by garrettm4; 03-31-2012 at 07:33 PM.
  #1233  
Old 03-31-2012, 07:36 PM
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Fish do not think about water, man do not think about field he is moving in. Only those fishes who surf on water surface jumping into air see difference.
Slap field with transient and it will behave like solid wall. That's how I understand it.
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  #1234  
Old 03-31-2012, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garrettm4 View Post
Jake,

There are NO inconsistency of terms with what Mr. Dollard has given or even the terms used today or 100 years ago. The problem isn't the terms or definitions its personal comprehension of their significance.

Per Farad is the reciprocal of the Farad. If Farad implied an imaginary conductance per unit time then a Per Farad would be an imaginary resistance per unit time. Its that simple. It all comes down to understanding what a reciprocal means in the physical world we live in, not in the imaginary world of math. People should focus on CRITICAL THINKING and not DEEP THINKING.

Per Farad literally means 1/F and the same goes for Per Henry 1/H. Farad literally means F/1 and the same for Henry H/1. We usually don't write things in this context but when doing dimensional analysis it becomes simpler to do it this way. The terms Henry and Farad are usually replaced with L and C for simplicity. Mr. Dollard uses the actual name to give a more meaningful conversation, but at the same time it is a language barrier for those who aren't familiar.

yup and I said that many moons ago and was shunned for it LOL


All of this comes down to understanding the "NORMAL" circuit orientation of the arbitrary element in question. This is seen as SHUNT (or PARALLEL) and SERIES arrangements. Capacitors, enductors and conductances are shunt elements, inductors, elastors and resistors are series elements.

If we place a capacitor in a series arrangement it no longer acts as an imaginary conductance per unit time (capacitive-susceptance), it now is an imaginary resistance per unit time (capacitive-reactance). The same goes for an inductance, if we place it in shunt we now have an imaginary conductance per unit time (magnetic-susceptance), not the original imaginary resistance per unit time (magnetic-reactance).

The capacitive and inductive elements are conjugate to one another, their vector forces rotate in opposite directions, if the capacitor acts as a small imaginary resistance and then becomes a large imaginary resistance per unit time, then an inductor acts as a large imaginary resistance then becomes a small imaginary resistance per unit time.

Stated in another way inductive reactance starts out large and then goes small, capacitive reactance starts out small and then goes large. The same goes for the opposite of reactance, susceptance.

that is correct and that is not another way but the way for a steady state input. (DC) the rest starts sounding like gobblety gook.

Keep in mind that second semester electronics they teach you all about phase angle. The imaginary number system handles the addition and subtraction etc of different phase angles.

Reactance is always a vector sum at some phase angle other than zero. Hence it has a resistive "effect" and properties.

A pure resistor has zero phase angle



The reason the above explanations are meaningful and correct is from the fact that IMAGINARY RESISTANCES AND CONDUCTANCES STORE ENERGY (AND CAN RETURN THAT SAME ENERGY). Thus as a capacitor gets "full" it can't allow anything to flow but at first it acted as a dead short, the opposite is true with an inductor at first it impedes the flow of current because it is building a magnetic field, as the field is built and expanded the current is then progressively less restricted in its flow and reaches its maximum when the field is fully expanded.

One problem I will admit that exists, is the fact that there are MULTIPLE self and mutual inductions of the dielectric and magnetic fields in any given circuit. The root of the problem comes from the fact that the naming of these various direction and situation dependent inductions sometimes overlap and cause a lot of confusion. I will give more details on this later.

I hope this hip-shot explanation (I'm strapped for time at the moment), can serve as a meaningful (albeit lacking) explanation to your question.

Garrett M

well not exactly.

a magnetic or dielectric field is essentially the same as a dc potential. When that magnetic field is collapased you get the energy, and likewise when the dielectric field is shorted or bridged. until it is in a condition to be kinetic is little different than a charged battery waiting for something to be connected.

I said many posts ago that all this per stuff is the same as 1/x and I did not see the value in calculating it in the opposite quadrant since it is a mirror image anyway.

Eric nor anyone else responded to that. So if there is a significance to it its is lost to me because that and several other points made have went unexplained that I asked about. Oh well....

Worse I started to listen to Erics audios and was forced to turn it off when he started about going backwards in time. So I have been very quiet waiting to see where this is ultimately going to go.

Now we can take that one step farther and again look at Meyl, regardless how many stones people wish to throw at his work its very hard to argue with success, at least you cant argue too much.

Meyl is in th e build stage not theory and has shown this to work real time. Now unless he is flat out lying about the measurements has claimed to get more at the receiver than he was transmitting.

No other working theory with that regard has been proposed or demonstrated that I can see at this point. Meyls has put out a theory as to why this happens and I have not seen any theory here refute Meyls functionally. So I am left shrugging my shoulders.

Maybe I expected too much, but I have to admit I expected to be looking the holy grail square in the face and have not had the pleasure of that expectation.

Lots of great theory but sadly nothing that crashed any of my einstein education yet.

But I have hope that maybe something is forth coming.
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Last edited by Kokomoj0; 03-31-2012 at 10:40 PM.
  #1235  
Old 03-31-2012, 10:57 PM
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a tank circuit is exactly like this:

Making standing waves

when you reach f0 the the reactances create a null and look to the circuit like a pure resistance you get the highest waves.

I pointed out in this and other threads that theic can be measured by either a real meter or a simple make shift VSWR meter by tapping into the circuit.

The old timers have done this since the invention of dirt.

more

Standing Waves

which takes up to wave phase:

Wave Phase

interference

Wave Interference - Wave Pulse

Electric Fields

Capacitors

Electric Currents - Magnetic Fields

Electric Currents - Magnetic Fields

this is what I explained that everyone forgets when talking about the "impulse". the relationship between V I and time
Transformers - Power Transmission

finally
RC Circuits

LR Circuits Theory Part 1

LC Circuit - YouTube

LC Circuit - YouTube

LC Circuits Theory Part 1

LC Circuits Example 1 Part 1

LC Circuits Example 1 Part 2

LC Circuits Example 1 Part 3

LC Circuits Example 1 Part 4 The End

AC Circuits Example 1 Part 1 - YouTube
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  #1236  
Old 03-31-2012, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Kokomoj0 View Post
Now we can take that one step farther and again look at Meyl, regardless how many stones people wish to throw at his work its very hard to argue with success, at least you cant argue too much.

Meyl is in th e build stage not theory and has shown this to work real time. Now unless he is flat out lying about the measurements has claimed to get more at the receiver than he was transmitting.
?? I haven't seen Meyl demonstrate anything of significance. His description of the boats even sounds wrong. I'd like to see his boat working 10 metres or more away from the transmitter using his proposed method.
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  #1237  
Old 04-01-2012, 12:32 AM
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@kokomojo
"yup and I said that many moons ago and was shunned for it LOL"

What page did that happen?? I think that might be the answer to my current question.

@garrett
I need to read your post again at last two times
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  #1238  
Old 04-01-2012, 01:03 AM
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?? I haven't seen Meyl demonstrate anything of significance. His description of the boats even sounds wrong. I'd like to see his boat working 10 metres or more away from the transmitter using his proposed method.
didnt he say they were 60+ meters apart at glauscau when they tested?
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  #1239  
Old 04-01-2012, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Kokomoj0 View Post
didnt he say they were 60+ meters apart at glauscau when they tested?
You mean the boat? There's no way he'd have the boat working at that distance using the configurations he shows. He has missed the fundamental part of the whole thing - the ground. In 7 mins of the 2nd video he explains:

Meyl - Scalarwave-Technology - The european website of www.k-meyl.de

"No battery, no earthing line, but only have water as the way back to the earth"

The 2nd image here is in direct conflict with the Tesla patent shown right above it:

SmartLINK

They are right outside the window with the transmitter right next to it. And where is the ground connection as shown in Tesla's patent?

Do you believe that his transmitter is having such an effect upon the earth that it will transfer through the ground, up through his puddle of water and power that motor? He's just using the puddle as a virtual ground, just like you can do with an Avramenko plug. The coil (metal) would make a nice antenna for an improved effect over more crude AV plugs, and the puddle of water would make a nice virtual ground. You can place whatever you like there, be the "ground" yourself if you want. But I don't believe for one second that his system is receiving the energy via the ground, or via the water.

And here the same again:

Transmission of Power Without Wires (Scalar Waves) - YouTube

My opinion on it is that this is SEC exciter territory, not Tesla's wireless transmission.

[edit] As far as energy through water is concerned, the sea is obviously a part of the earth and it's all connected. So Meyl seems to have simply cheated by making the water the virtual ground, and receiving the energy through the top terminal instead. According to the correct theory, he should be able to simply plug loads directly into the water and they will power up, things such as an incandescent bulb. But I don't think he will be able to do that.
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Last edited by dR-Green; 04-01-2012 at 02:31 AM.
  #1240  
Old 04-01-2012, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dR-Green View Post
You mean the boat? There's no way he'd have the boat working at that distance using the configurations he shows. He has missed the fundamental part of the whole thing - the ground. In 7 mins of the 2nd video he explains:

Meyl - Scalarwave-Technology - The european website of www.k-meyl.de

"No battery, no earthing line, but only have water as the way back to the earth"

The 2nd image here is in direct conflict with the Tesla patent shown right above it:

SmartLINK

They are right outside the window with the transmitter right next to it. And where is the ground connection as shown in Tesla's patent?

Do you believe that his transmitter is having such an effect upon the earth that it will transfer through the ground, up through his puddle of water and power that motor? He's just using the puddle as a virtual ground, just like you can do with an Avramenko plug. The coil (metal) would make a nice antenna for an improved effect over more crude AV plugs, and the puddle of water would make a nice virtual ground. You can place whatever you like there, be the "ground" yourself if you want. But I don't believe for one second that his system is receiving the energy via the ground, or via the water.

And here the same again:

Transmission of Power Without Wires (Scalar Waves) - YouTube

My opinion on it is that this is SEC exciter territory, not Tesla's wireless transmission.

[edit] As far as energy through water is concerned, the sea is obviously a part of the earth and it's all connected. So Meyl seems to have simply cheated by making the water the virtual ground, and receiving the energy through the top terminal instead. According to the correct theory, he should be able to simply plug loads directly into the water and they will power up, things such as an incandescent bulb. But I don't think he will be able to do that.
well tesla intended to power airplanes as well though
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  #1241  
Old 04-01-2012, 04:58 AM
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well tesla intended to power airplanes as well though
Yeah, I don't know how he intended to do that with all the known inefficiencies etc. This is what I was starting to work on the other night which led to the last video. Using a metal plate "ground plane" on the transmitter output and a metal plate receiver as a "mobile" reception system having no physical contact, the reception drops off very quickly in the range of mm. Maybe the requirements for this situation involves a lot of transmitters placed around the planet, and/or the earth itself in resonance

Apparently aquatic vehicles are not a problem, but cars and planes are something else.
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  #1242  
Old 04-01-2012, 07:20 AM
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It would help us a lot if you could make a sketch of your set-up to show how much does it deviate from the published circuit.
This is how it's all connected in the video. Not sure about the LED polarity.

[IMG=http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/4500/receiverpatent.jpg][/IMG]

I've been able to get better performance with Eric's "power" circuit since, using a bigger load, and using just about every combination of primary-secondary connections I can think of. They all work, which is why I'm now suspecting the LED polarity had something to do with it. I'll have to test it to confirm, but a 12v 1.1W 21 LED array that doesn't seem to care for polarity works much better than the smaller load of the 3v 6 red LEDs... Although everything shows strange behaviour and normal LEDs don't care for polarity as much as they usually do etc. Lots of variables and things to figure out
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  #1243  
Old 04-01-2012, 03:33 PM
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Lots of great theory but sadly nothing that crashed any of my einstein education yet.
So you still think that the electrons are the source of electricity? Or do you believe there are lines of force, or aether, being the cause of electricity?

@Garrett,

It is a shame that you took down your posts. Eric said that it was a great help to have you around so that he had somebody else to answer questions because your understanding of his math is quite clear.

Dave
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Last edited by Web000x; 04-01-2012 at 03:50 PM.
  #1244  
Old 04-01-2012, 03:54 PM
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@Garrett,

It is a shame that you took down your posts. Eric said that it was a great help to have you around so that he had somebody else to answer questions because your understanding of his math is quite clear.

Dave[/QUOTE]

Yes it is a shame.

I was going through all his posts specifically. Did the man get to you or are you going to write a book? (i'll buy one)

I guess that explains why all the pages shifted.
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  #1245  
Old 04-01-2012, 05:01 PM
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Where did Garrett go?

I'm also wondering what happened to all of Garrett's posts?

Did anyone keep a backup/copy of all his posts?
Please pm me, he had some awesome explanations and information.
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  #1246  
Old 04-01-2012, 07:35 PM
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Garrett's Posts Missing - NFG

I'm not sure what NFG actually stands for - but the loss of Garrett's posts from this thread is definitely NFG

Garrett, hope all is well with you.
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  #1247  
Old 04-01-2012, 07:43 PM
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NFG = No F***ing Good
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  #1248  
Old 04-01-2012, 09:37 PM
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Agreed, a SNAFU.

Hopefully he returns.

In other news...
I built another set of coils for 4Mhz, It's the upper end of the amateur radio band and should prove to be more difficult to receive on. Although I'm not getting any 'sound' I did notice one thing of interest, with no circuit load there is little to no voltage potential, set up a load and the potential climbs. at the moment it'll fluctuate between .7~1 volt of potential between the ground plane and radial ground antenna. capacitance value is critical and I'm going to sit and see what I can calculate to tune this.

The larger crystal set is awaiting wider copper strap at the moment.
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  #1249  
Old 04-01-2012, 09:49 PM
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Garrett ?? No ..Why ... uuggg.. Did anyone copy his post by chance?? you have been such a help in all this. What a shame hope you come back and all is well ...
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  #1250  
Old 04-01-2012, 09:52 PM
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I should clarify, this is AC voltage reading
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  #1251  
Old 04-01-2012, 11:14 PM
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Hmm I'm not sure where Garrett's posts went however if you're quick google cache is your friend

Quote:
Originally Posted by Web000x View Post
So you still think that the electrons are the source of electricity? Or do you believe there are lines of force, or aether, being the cause of electricity?

Dave
You mean actually listen to and verify what Eric is saying Blasphemy!
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  #1252  
Old 04-02-2012, 01:55 AM
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he deleted his own posts

Energetic Forum did NOT get hacked. Plenty of members have asked me so I'll post it here instead of replying to every personally. Garrettm4 deleted his own posts.
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  #1253  
Old 04-02-2012, 02:38 AM
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Garrett4, Gone without a trace, almost!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raui View Post
Hmm I'm not sure where Garrett's posts went however if you're quick google cache is your friend



You mean actually listen to and verify what Eric is saying Blasphemy!
Google Cache turned up nothing http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...p-dollard.html

Internet Archive "Waybackmachine" turned up nothing, latest search was May 2010. Garrett joined August 2011. http://web.archive.org/web/201005220...p-dollard.html

But Energetic Forum still has 37 Quoted Posts when you do a Thread Search for "Garrettm4".
http://www.energeticforum.com/search...earchid=598383

Have fun

Mike
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  #1254  
Old 04-02-2012, 03:21 AM
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Geometric_Algebra Geometric_Algebra is offline
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Primary/Secondary Assembly Iteration #1

Secondary: Roughly 24 turns of RG316 (L-com.com) on 13.74 inch diameter form, with wire spacing 0.120".

Primary: 1.5" wide Georgia Copper (2.71 grams/in specific weight), 1 turn on 13.74 in diameter, and ending with an additonal 3/16 turn on 13.24 inch diameter.

Center frequency: Theoretical 1.87Mhz, Measured 1.6Mhz, which just barely enters the AM band.

Test setup for measuring center frequency:
Input: 2.8V pk, sinusoid, 1.6Mhz, from a 50 ohm input impedance function generator source connected directly to the primary loop with mini-grabber test clips.

Output: 174V pk, sinusoid, with oscilloscope probe shunted directly across secondary. Probe is a 60Mhz bandwidth, 46 pF input capacitance, 10Meg ohm input resistance, cheapo ebay special, using a Tektronix TDS210 oscillscope. Secondary is very senstive and output characteristics change with objects moving 6-8 inches and closer to the coil.

I do have a basic python script for calculations, some emc2 g-code files for router manufacturing, conductor empirical measurements, and other associated files if anyone would like to use/modify.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg offset.jpg (398.5 KB, 82 views)
File Type: jpg side.jpg (163.7 KB, 51 views)
File Type: jpg top.jpg (173.4 KB, 46 views)
File Type: jpg detail1.jpg (177.1 KB, 50 views)
File Type: jpg detail2.jpg (160.3 KB, 48 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf primary_secondary_former.pdf (71.7 KB, 61 views)
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:57 AM
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Aaron Aaron is offline
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Arrow new thread for continuation

Please continue this thread here:
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Last edited by Aaron; 04-06-2012 at 07:23 AM.
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