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Eric Dollard Official Forum This forum is dedicated to the work of Eric P. Dollard. His Official homepage is http://ericpdollard.com

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  #1201  
Old 03-26-2012, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sputins View Post
Sound quality of the video is ok, however there is a distinct echo with the recording, if anyone has any fancy audio editing software, could the audio be cleaned up at all? Neutralize the echo?


“If we move our plane of reference through this cone we have circles, we have ellipses and we have parabolas, which are all based on the same form. They just represent a different angular displacement”. The angle of the plane. Steinmentz called it ????? (I can’t discern the word).
[/B]
I spoke to George Gaboury yesterday, the head of the San Francisco Tesla Society, and he said that there is about 16 hours of footage of Eric that needs to be edited before it is released. I'm told by another friend of Eric's that there is a better quality version of this Dec. 9, 2007 presentation that is among those recordings. Hopefully by Eric giving George a call, he will expedite making those video's available since George said that the reason he hasn't gotten to those is because he and Eric fell out of communication and he has much going on at the S.F.T.S.

Steinmetz called it the "angle of hysteresis"

Dave
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  #1202  
Old 03-26-2012, 05:05 PM
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radiation resistance and the -j operator. by utilizing hyperbolic functions it can been seen that when aligning the fields it eliminates the resistance thru 'counter-space rotation' or plane shifting in Cartesian coordinates which is where we see the folding of space or time invariant function.

I've spent many yrs studying physics and thru so many theories and 'illusions' I've never seen such a simple (and yet highly complex) explanation of the nature of the universe.

Eric's analogy of the clock in the above posts is beautifully simple for those who may not be able to follow the complex algebra. esp since this gets into counter-space and that's more than just 'inverse' it's akin to bizzaro world inside out. take the simple rotation, in counter-space that rotation of the -j operator is shift in planes in x,y,z coordinates that would be best described like folding a sheet of paper to make two distant points touch yet simultaneously not be aware of the 'paper' folding. hurts the brain doesn't it?

There is so much more here, Erics posts and notes are great resource as they outline the structure of what needs to be covered and esp of how much still needs to be filled in to get to useable calculations for engineering applications. There is so much lab work needed to test and explore this to move forward, it may be in our best interest to work collectively and note down in journal form what we find and share that then those with more time and inclination can work on the math and those who'd rather work in lab can do so as well with help from the 'math' group for design and schematics.

For example, the crystal set is a prime example of a information rich effects. I personally have the set built but have not gotten the results I want, however it's not been without results as it as given me answers to questions on capacitance by noting the differences in my results to others. however lets say we have one build that is catalog'd and every parameter of the physical construction known. from that it can be altered and the changes noted and then using that it can direct the mathematics to derive the needed equations to refine and move forward.

right now the one thing I've seen is the surface area and capacitance equations, capacitance is frustrating itself as it's always an assumed infinite plane yet we know it's not. high frequency skin effect and resistance of the mass of the 'director' and the geometry all play a role, as seen it gets very complex. I've spent a couple hundred hrs already on just calculations and have now just started to notice a few things I'd like to explore, with some more research into hyperbolic trig I may have some equations that can be tested in the field. I'll share this freely with anyone willing to test on their crystal sets. ultimately I'd like to see if we can all build matching sets and see if we can network them together as Tesla intended.
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Old 03-26-2012, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex View Post
In common language, those existing in the imaginary time frame of “Daylight Savings Time” are one over jOUT OF STEP with nature. This represents a 30 degree unit displacement on the face of the 12 hour clock. On a 24 hour cycle imaginary time is 15 degrees OUT OF STEP with the rotation of the Earth. In other words for those in imaginary time, this time is a place on Earth 15 degrees distant from the location of its natural occurrence. Your time is now in a place you are not. In A.C. Terms

(12) , percent
The Power Factor

(13) , percent
The Induction Factor

Hence

(14) unit percent
Where

(VI) A common man conception of the versor concept is not complete without a related N.F.G. Historically, the works of J.S. Bach suffered the same fate as the works of Nikola Tesla. Shortly after the death of J.S. Bach (1750) all his important work was thrown into the garbage, this regarded as obsolete junk. If it was not for Herr Forkel, who recovered Bach’s work from the garbage and wrote the first book about Bach, all memory of Bach, and his work, would have been lost forever. Today, it is seen by some, that as with N. Tesla, the works of J.S. Bach is inimitable and profound. But it is of no value to modern society. The music of today has degenerated into the gutter sounds of “Hump N’ Slap,” and “Eubonic Barking Savages”, then the Boom….Boom Boom…….. Accordingly it is seen that the so called Science has followed a parallel path. This is known as “Quantum Mechanics”, the science of delusions. This “Science” in reality is no more than one big “Khazarian Circle Jerk”. And finally? Art! What an absolute joke. To criticize it is like slaying the slain. Today one can obtain a grant from the “Sheisenburg Foundation” to express one’s “artistic talent” by smearing human fecal matter onto a large canvas. Upon calling it “God” it will be worth millions. This is society today, COMPLETELY DEGENERATE.

So verily we are lost souls, hence the importance of reconstructing what has been lost to us. And it is to be noted that even Bach and Tesla themselves are only steps on a path, or as said by Heaviside “There is no finality.” But who is going to support this effort, or who is even interested at all? Rest assured that no support will be provided by our Babylonian society. This endeavor is more like becoming a Christian in Ancient Rome, a dangerous undertaking. See the movie “Fahrenheit 451” for an excellent portrayal of what awaits.

73 DE N6KPH


I remember several years ago reading for the first time your lectures Mr. Dollard on the symbolic representation of waves, And thinking about the unit circle spinning through time (corkscrew was the image I saw). Your explanations given really throw the concept into realm of easily graspable and usable . I just wanted to extend my thanks.
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  #1204  
Old 03-26-2012, 07:31 PM
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SFTS video

I found the SFTS video incredibly helpful in understanding what I've read thus far.

FTR, the part where Eric is explaining his notation, the slides are displaying pages from his book "Symblic Representation of the Generalized (in Time) Electric Wave" - one can follow right along.

Is there a way to download a local copy of this video? It would be nice to scrub back and forth.

pt
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  #1205  
Old 03-26-2012, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pault View Post
I found the SFTS video incredibly helpful in understanding what I've read thus far.

FTR, the part where Eric is explaining his notation, the slides are displaying pages from his book "Symblic Representation of the Generalized (in Time) Electric Wave" - one can follow right along.

Is there a way to download a local copy of this video? It would be nice to scrub back and forth.

pt
I'll see if I can put a torrent file together. Or if somebody has some ftp space available to the tune of about 2 GB, P.M. me and we can work something out.

Dave
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Old 03-26-2012, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
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Is there a way to download a local copy of this video? It would be nice to scrub back and forth.
Yep, no problem. I'm using Firefox and the downloadhelper plugin:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...ownloadhelper/

Already have all the parts, but a torrent with the original would be very nice, because then you have it all in one vid and with the original quality.
  #1207  
Old 03-26-2012, 08:48 PM
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Conic Sections and Related References

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sputins View Post

I found particularly helpful with the understanding, the “Conic Sections”:

Part 5:

13.20 [B]“The Archetypes of all our equations is all based on this form called the “Conic Sections”.
Sputins,

The book referenced by Mr. Dollard Physics and Mathematics in Electrical Communication by James Owen Perrine Ph. D., published 1958, is probably the best book I have ever read regarding conic sections, hyperbolic sine, cos, tan and exponential equations. If you can find this book I would highly recommend getting it for study and reference. (I picked up my secondhand copy from "betterworld books" on amazon. I don't know if its still in print, so you will probably have to look for a used copy like I did)

In the preface Mr. Perrine lists two books that inspired him to write his book, they are Calculus Made Easy by Silvanous Phillips Thompson and Exponentials Made Easy or the Story of Epsilon by M. E. J. Gheury de Bray. Both of which I have read and found to be great resources for study and reference material.

Two other books that might be of interest are Principles of Elliptic and Hyperbolic Analysis by Alexander MacFarlane and Aplication of Hyperbolic Functions to Electrical Engineering Problems by Arthur Edwin Kennelly.

As per Geometric_Algebra's request, here's another note worthy paper on the above subject, Application of Hyperbolic Analysis to The Discharge of a Condenser by Alexander MacFarlane (this contains the discussion of the article as well). Also here's one of the references used by Mr. MacFarlane in the afore mentioned paper, Transient Electric Currents by Prof. William Thomson.

The article Hysteresis of the Aether, written by Mr. Dollard sometime in 88-89 and published in the BSRF journal, has some relevancy to the question you were asking, which Dave has responded to (the angle of hysteresis). The abstract of the article is shown below:


Hysteresis of the Aether

Eric P. Dollard, “Wireless Engineer” ©


In the theoretical investigation of electric induction the propagating velocity of the transverse electro-magnetic (T.E.M.) component of induction is the only propagation constant considered. The propagation throughout space of the independent magnetic field of induction and the independent dielectric field of induction is not considered. In reality, however, these fields of induction start at the conductor and propagate from there throughout space at a definite velocity; that is, at any point in space the field of induction of magnetism or dielectricity at any moment in time corresponds not to the condition of induction at the conductor at that moment but that at a moment earlier by the time of propagation from the conductor to the point in space under consideration. Hence the given field of induction lags in time the more, the greater the distance from the conductor.

This lag in phase with respect to distance results in the cycle of energy return of the field of induction falling behind its point of phase opposition with the cycle of energy storage. This lag in phase gives rise to an energy component, that is an effective magnetic resistance or an effective dielectric conductance to the reactance or susceptance of the magnetic & dielectric fields respectively.

The phase angle of this lag in the cycle of energy return has been called the angle of hysteresis of the inductive medium and has become well known for ferrous materials. However, the application of this concept to the inductive medium known as the aether has received no attention except by Steinmetz. The purpose of this paper is the adaptation of Steinmetz' inductive propagation to the study of the hysteresis of the aether and a determination of the propagation velocity therefrom.


Garrett M
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  #1208  
Old 03-26-2012, 08:56 PM
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First Build

So I've built a replica of Tesla's three coil system from the Colorado Springs notes. I took a couple of liberties, the main one being the fact that the primary and secondary are square, since my kitchen table was approximately the right size. I'm not opposed to building a circular form, I just figured I'd try the table first since it's convenient.

It's a one turn primary, 26 turn secondary system (kitchen table was close to the right size, but not perfect), approximately matched copper mass. Primary is 'O' wire, secondary is 14 gauge stranded speaker wire. There's research showing that stranded wire does better with higher frequencies than solid core, so I used it to maximize skin effect. The extra coil has a free resonance right at 1 Mhz and used 18 gauge speaker wire. The extra coil form is built of plastic. You need to use thick dowels so they don't bend. I used 1" diameter ABS from ebay and 1/4 inch PVC sheets for the base and top. All of my wire is plastic coated, rather than magnet wire, so it's easy to uncoil and rewrap the system.

The design works with AC or DC input, however the spark still looks like normal electricity. My goal is to produce the strange spark that Eric describes as folding onto itself in counterspace, but so far my system seems fairly normal. My spark gaps are magnetically quenched. I'm wondering if they need to be improved to get it to work right...



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Old 03-26-2012, 10:42 PM
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Hey all,
First the SFTS video and now Eric's Versor posts, I swear everytime there's new material it feels like Christmas! Thank you Eric for kindly distributing your knowledge openly to the public! The synchronicity in the world is amazing, the night that I came home from my maths lecture which introduced me to conic sections I come home to find Eric's lecture talking about them again. Just thinking out loud here but since it's becoming apparent that the geometry underlying the equations of conic sections is that of equal and opposite cones is this a link to Walter Russell's work (or twin opposing cones as he says)?

I have compiled all the parts into one big flv file but it is pretty big (~1.18GB) I don't have hosting anymore though If there is 16 hours of footage floating around I will very lovingly view every second of them, at least 3 times to stay true to the spirit of Tesla.

Skaght,
Don't take my word for it but one thing you might want to look at is your extra coil. If you have a look at the coils in these two pictures you'll notice that the coils windings are spaced out but the majority of your coil is bunched up;
http://www.teslasociety.com/coil3.jpg
http://alchemy2012.com/xmages/tmt%201a.JPG
Like I said I might be off the mark as I have been unable to start my TMT project but I have been reading on and the properties of the extra coil are critical.

Raui
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  #1210  
Old 03-26-2012, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garrettm4 View Post
Sputins,

The book referenced by Mr. Dollard Physics and Mathematics in Electrical Communication by James Owen Perrine Ph. D., published 1958, is probably the best book I have ever read regarding conic sections, hyperbolic sine, cos, tan and exponential equations. If you can find this book I would highly recommend getting it for study and reference. (I picked up my secondhand copy from "betterworld books" on amazon. I don't know if its still in print, so you will probably have to look for a used copy like I did)

In the preface Mr. Perrine lists two books that inspired him to write his book, they are Calculus Made Easy by Silvanous Phillips Thompson and Exponentials Made Easy or the Story of Epsilon by M. E. J. Gheury de Bray. Both of which I have read and found to be great resources for study and reference material.

Two other books that might be of interest are Principles of Elliptic and Hyperbolic Analysis by Alexander MacFarlane and Aplication of Hyperbolic Functions to Electrical Engineering Problems by Arthur Edwin Kennelly.

Garrett M
Garrett,

In the bibliography (page 288 of Kennelly's Application of Hyperbolic Functions to Electrical Engineering Problems, 2nd Ed.), reference #18 is A. Macfarlanes's paper "Application of Hyperbolic Analysis to the Discharge of a Condenser." I extracted the paper from an old IEEE compilation, and posted a while back. Some one probably has a copy floating around here and might just drop a link to the pdf. Also, a record of the discussion session of the paper includes comments by Steinmetz and Kennelly.

Also, just to add to the excitement around Perrine's text, it's an unusual book in that it includes actual basic facts and circuit examples derived from an electrical engineering perspective. This text is a gem!
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:39 PM
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Extra coil

The extra coil only looks "bunched up" because of the plastic insulation between the wires. The actual spacing between conductive copper is slightly more than Eric recommends.
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  #1212  
Old 03-27-2012, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by skaght View Post
The extra coil only looks "bunched up" because of the plastic insulation between the wires. The actual spacing between conductive copper is slightly more than Eric recommends.


I wonder why he recommends .62 when teslas and his appear to be approximately 1:1
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:46 AM
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Dollard posted a very interesting comment some time ago, about coils:

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex View Post
It is great to find a point of discussion, the Energetic Forum has been very boring to me, like talking to my own echo. However bickering like that with Light Ship seems to be more what interests everyone, a good fight!

When considering waves on coiled windings, leave out the electrons, let us forget them once and for all. They are for electronic devices (RG) NOT for electrical devices (LC). Forget the electrons, forget it!

It is generally considered that any wave must consist of a conjugate pair of energies, magnetic and dielectric let's say. Only then an interaction between time and space is possible. As I have shown recently it is through the union of a conjugate pair (L and C) that the dimension of time is produced. The propagation constant is then equal to:

(1) Negative Gamma Square

Having a pair of imaginary roots, plus j Gamma and minus j Gamma

It is however that the JJ Thompson Longitudinal Dielectric Motions cannot have a periodic solution, there is one energy only, dielectric. This needs to be resolved.

There are four distinct forms of energy stored in a winding,
Magnetic Pair:

L, Leakage Inductance, Henry
M, Mutual Inductance, per Henry

Dielectric Pair:

C, Leakage Capacitance, Farad
K, Mutual Capacitance, per Farad

The Magnetic Distribution along the coil axis is given by

(2) Epsilon to the square root of LM power. It is an exponential curve along the axis.

The Dielectric Distribution along the coil axis is given by

(3) Epsilon to the square root of CK power. It too is an exponential curve along the axis.

LM an CK are time scalars hence it can be seen that these initial distributions at t = 0 give rise to complex energy exchanges because of the exponential space distributions. We have now a fourth order differential in space and time. Alice lands in Wonderland. Forget Maxwell, forget the Corums, dead ends, forget them once and for all!!

Break, more to follow

DE N6KPH
Okay, I know this is very cryptic to most people, but it contains the very foundation of the physics of the (near) future. It gives us a framework, a set of mathematical equations that all but describe what space-time really is. I realized this a few days ago:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamare View Post
I never thought there could be something called "space-time", since it it so tightly coupled to the flawed Einsteinian physics.


But if these 4 energy flows are so tightly coupled to the dimension of time, and everything in nature is balanced, then it is very interesting to have the "per Henry" and "per Farad" energy flows mentioned. These suggest an internal energy storage.

The other 2 flows are in Farad and Henry, which represent the reaction of the aether to dielectric and magnetic force enacted upon it. And that is quite something:


the aether acts as a perfect elastic reflector!


Now if the fundamental laws of nature are supposed to hold at any scale, then we should say that the Universe we see trough our telescopes is nothing but a perfect elastic reflector in terms of reflecting the (di)electric and magnetic energy that we torture it with.

That makes you wonder of who emitted the reflections we observe trough our telescopes. And when?
All right. Now the first really important thing Eric says, is this:

Quote:
As I have shown recently it is through the union of a conjugate pair (L and C) that the dimension of time is produced.
What he says here, is that there is a fundamental mathematical formula that connects the electromagnetic domain/dimension to the time domain/dimension. However, this formula connects electromagnetics to time, but it does NOT connect the electrostatic field (dielectric) to time.

So, the question is: if the dimension of time is connected to L AND C, the electromagnetic domain, then where is the dimension/domain of time when we only have a C, in the electrostatic??

This is a very interesting and important question, because we see quite a lot of claims that "scalar waves" supposedly can have an infinite amount of energy and/or propagate infinitly fast. I find that very hard to believe, but at this moment, I cannot completely rule it out, either. Either way, if we ever want to think in the direction of the possibility of time-travel, then it is clear that we need to understand time first and how it relates to the physical reality, a physical reality that appears to act as a mirror... One we understand that, then may be, just may be, we can find a way to manipulate the dimension of time and thus perhaps travel trough time. In any case, that has nothing to do with how fast an object moves with respect to another object (Einstein's relativity theory). It has to do with understanding the fundamental nature of time.

The fact that this nature can be described mathematically in terms of electromagnetic fields, which are one and the same fields with which "matter" and "waves" as well as gravity can be described mathematically and with which we can therefore mathematically describe ALL of physial reality, essentially means we have all we need in order to understand the fundamental nature of both physical reality and time.

Let's first note this:

Quote:
It is however that the JJ Thompson Longitudinal Dielectric Motions cannot have a periodic solution, there is one energy only, dielectric. This needs to be resolved.
What this says, is that there is a problem with the equation Eric has, his "fourth order differential in space and time", which is that with this equation you cannot describe longitudinal dielectric "Tesla" waves. In other words: something is wrong, something is missing.


Let's now focus on this:

Quote:
There are four distinct forms of energy stored in a winding,
Magnetic Pair:

L, Leakage Inductance, Henry
M, Mutual Inductance, per Henry

Dielectric Pair:

C, Leakage Capacitance, Farad
K, Mutual Capacitance, per Farad
This describes the energy storage in a coil winding, which give rise to a very interesting concept. You see, you have the internal "storage" capacitance, K, which represents the electric energy stored internally in the coil and you have the "leakage" capacitance, which represents the electric energy stored in the environment of the coil. And the same story holds for the magnetic energy, represented by the inductance.

There is one very peculiar detail in Eric's descriptions and that is the "per Henry" and "per Farad" he uses to describe the internally stored energies in a winding. Eric also relates this not to "space" but to "counter space", which is somewhat strange terminology, but it is an important principle.

What he actually says is that for both internally stored energies, the amount of energy that can be stored increases the smaller the distances between the coil wires. In other words: the more you *contract* your coil, the *more* energy you can store inside the volume of your coil.

WOW!

What this means is that you can store an infinit amount of energy in an infinitely small coil, *BOTH* in the electrical as well as in the magnetic domain.

Now this only describes "a coil" and does so in one dimension. However, when we consider a particle as being some kind of rotating vortex-like structure in the aether, then it is clear that such an "object" can also be described as a very small coil that can be characterized by these 4 electrical elements.

And if we can do that, we can also describe such a coil as being made out of even smaller coils. And we can continue to make our coils smaller and smaller and smaller, mathematically. All the way down to the infinitely small...

In other words: there is no fundamental "God" particle or anything else you could say the aether is made of.

What we are thus looking at is a fundamental "Goddess" of physical reality, which is in essence an energy pit that potentially *contracts* all the way down to the infinitly small. Yep, our Goddess is infinite, she's infinitely small. The more energy you throw at her, the less space she needs to contain that energy. She grows inwards towards infinity...


All right. We have thus established that the "mutual" capacitance and inductance of an object, or our Goddess, essentially describe a contracting energy pit that can store an infinit amount of energy.

But we also have the "leakage" capacitance and inductance. This represents the external storage of energy, the energy that *expands* into space. And that energy store can also store an infinite amount of energy. In an infinite amount of space. And if you would take all that energy together, then you would have all that is, which would be God. And he is also infinite, but in the other direction: he grows outwards towards infinity...

In other words: the "leakage" capacitance and inductance describe an *expanding* energy pit, aka God.


Now let's bring this together. What we have is a model that relates some "internal" energy storage and some "external" energy storage within every piece of space. In other words: the *boundary* of every "object" one can define, can be described as mathematical volume, that exchanges energy with it's environment. Since the fundamental law of conservation of energy MUST hold and this energy is stored within our (space distributed) capacitances / inductances, it follows that energy can ONLY be stored/exchanged within space/the aether and NOT to/from "time".

However, both the expanding and contracting energy storages are infinite, so in the situation that there is no actual energy exchange between the interenal and the external, we have a balance between both energy storages.

So, the question is: how/where does the dimension of time come into the picture and what does it do? The work of Walter Russell suggests that here we may have a connection to consciousness itself, but this keeps me puzzled for the moment...
  #1214  
Old 03-27-2012, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garrettm4 View Post

The book referenced by Mr. Dollard Physics and Mathematics in Electrical Communication by James Owen Perrine Ph. D., published 1958, is probably the best book I have ever read regarding conic sections, hyperbolic sine, cos, tan and exponential equations. If you can find this book I would highly recommend getting it for study and reference. (I picked up my secondhand copy from "betterworld books" on amazon. I don't know if its still in print, so you will probably have to look for a used copy like I did)
There are a couple available at biblio.com:

Physics and Mathematics in Electrical Communication‎ Perrine‎ Books - Used Books at Biblio.com

At this moment, there is one less available compared to, say, 5 minutes ago.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:21 AM
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The Electron, CP Steinmetz Point of View

I was doing some reading through the General Electric Review Volumes 14-16 and came across an interesting article by Mr. Steinmetz Electrical Disturbances & the Nature of Electrical Energy which talks about the Aether theories of the time, Electrons and electric waves. I found the section he wrote on electrons to be an interesting perspective, and I thought it might be of some interest here.






Mr. Steinmetz's point of view of the electron actually makes sense to me. The notion that the electron is being directed and its motions determined by the lines of dielectric induction is ironically what I had come to the conclusion of before reading the article. It would make sense that there are more "free" negative-terminals of dielectric induction as there is an abundance of so called free-electrons in most conductors. He goes on to point out an interesting and almost non-existant topic of free POSITIVE-terminals of dielectric induction via so called positive-electrons, or in the case of radioactive matter helium atoms. Some food for thought.

REFERENCE:

General Electric Review Volume 15 1912

CP Steinmetz - Electrical Disturbances & the Nature of Electrical Energy, Pages 5-12 (pages 10-12 are shown above)


Garrett M
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  #1216  
Old 03-28-2012, 09:50 PM
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Quick brainstorm anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TREX View Post
Having a pair of imaginary roots, plus j Gamma and minus j Gamma

It is however that the JJ Thompson Longitudinal Dielectric Motions cannot have a periodic solution, there is one energy only, dielectric. This needs to be resolved.

There are four distinct forms of energy stored in a winding,
Magnetic Pair:

L, Leakage Inductance, Henry The big magnetic fields that push our motors?

M, Mutual Inductance, per Henry Energy stored in counterspace/innerspace?

Dielectric Pair:

C, Leakage Capacitance, Farad The field created by an electro static geretator, or in a vacuum capacitor?

K, Mutual Capacitance, per FaradEnergy stored in counterspace/innerspace?


..
are the blue discriptions correct???


Is it fair to say that if you can oscillate L and C in "space", you can oscillate M and K in "counterspace"??? If so what is happening to M and K on a standard run of the mill teslacoil?

Seems to me they would be stuck/saturated?

@ lamare, and EPD

What if "counter/innerspace" was bounded? Would there be a "Hard Knock" or unelastic bump, when you run out of "room" in counterspace? Then...... a large "splash" into space? Just a thought. Might help with JJ Thompson motions by putting an end to the peroid.
sorry no goddess but still a god

@garretm,

Thanks for that last post. I will never be able to get the notion of snaping electric lines out of my mind when I think of radiation. I have a friend who tests dirt for radiation. You should see the periodic table of the decaying elements. He has a wall sized poster at the office.

Also do you have all your posts saved in another format or in one place?

I would like to take another look at them. I am a more familiar with the symbols and meanings. Erics videos helped alot with that. Wish there was a lecture of everything he scipped over in last videos.



Any takers?
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  #1217  
Old 03-29-2012, 12:06 AM
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dR-Green dR-Green is offline
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I was doing some experiments the other night with a specific goal in mind, it all started relatively unrelated to this, but one thing led to another and I decided to try the crystal radio principle in the house, seeing as the big coil I'm using to receive the radio has 4x the wire length of my small coil. So the idea was to replicate the main objective but using my own power source to try and get a better idea of things. 52.65m transmitter and 13m receiver secondary wire lengths approx.

First before I forget, a normal crystal radio can be connected to the transmitter as a one wire receiver along with tuning, and it also receives without any wires as an "AV plug" type device with tuning which may be of interest to those interested in the SEC type devices. It needs the "ground" and "terminal capacitance" to work properly whether using direct connections or not, but it will easily light LEDs.

The normal receiver worked so I tried Eric's crystal circuit with the small spiral. For the original goal I didn't want a direct connection so here I was using a tinfoil ground plane on the coil output with various bits of metal close to it to receive the energy. That worked too, but it was better when the C0 shorted (or connected directly) across the receiver secondary. Next, the power circuit. Also worked, but it was better with C2 removed from the circuit.

But the point here was I was now thinking of it in terms of the radio instead of "energy transmission". That was an interesting revelation I decided to earth the transmitter by connecting it to the radiator, and use a metal receiving plate to see if I could get anything off the radiator with no physical connection. Lo and behold the LEDs lit on the receiver And to cut an even longer story short, I used a direct connection from the radiator to the receiver was able to tune it for best output. It will even light a 15w 240v incandescent bulb very dimly, but I was very excited by the fact it even lit at all from an earthed wire. So this might not exactly be the goal of this thread, but personally I thought it might be an useful way of having some "known" source of power to be able to test the theory and learn a bit about it.

Anyway this video shows the result so far, I suppose the main thing to note of relevance here being the effect of the terminal capacitance when its distance from the radiator is adjusted. The cardboard has tinfoil sandwiched inside it. Without adjusting the distance like that it would need pretty big terminal capacitance for the best output.

[edit] I forgot to mention, the primary is in series with the secondary for best output, and the fridge shelves are a part of the terminal capacitance.

Tesla "Wireless" Electrical Transmission Via Earthed Central Heating Pipes - YouTube
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Last edited by dR-Green; 03-29-2012 at 12:17 AM.
  #1218  
Old 03-30-2012, 02:14 AM
wyndbag wyndbag is offline
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I feel honored to read the posts here. This forum is how I imagine a true University where the knowledge is shared equally and its up to the student to get up to speed on their own.

Thanks T-Rex and other electricians, I appreciate your efforts at bringing this reader into a more reasoned and measured understanding of this work.
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Last edited by wyndbag; 03-30-2012 at 02:37 AM.
  #1219  
Old 03-30-2012, 04:49 AM
garrettm4 garrettm4 is offline
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Lumped & Distributed Elements & Mutual & Self Inductions, Down the Rabbit Hole We Go

Jake,

I hope this helps make more clear as to what Mr. Dollard was referring to in the quote you had of his in your post. While I can't speak for him, I can give you my understanding of it, in a round-about lecture of my own (if anyone finds something to be inaccurate or lacking in detail, please feel free to correct me).

Without further ado, here's my 2 cents on "The Four Distinct forms of Energy Stored in a Winding":

The various dielectric-metallic confines (or circuits) employed for the use of "electricity", create a myriad of conditions and settings for the two conjugate forces of the Electric Field. The magnetic and the dielectric. The most basic conditions are those of the LUMPED ELEMENTS. In the world of lumped element analysis, a resistor is just a resistor and a capacitor is only a capacitor, the employment and understanding of these conditions are only useful at LOW FREQUENCIES. A more advanced and very much more complicated condition is that of DISTRIBUTED ELEMENTS. Here a resistor is not only a resistor but an inductor and capacitor as well, the employment and understanding of these conditions are generally used at high frequencies and is the most accurate for calculation given ANY circuit condition.

Furthermore, beyond the lumped and distributed elements, we have TWO forms of the two inductions (dielectric & magnetic) these being in the context of SELF and MUTUAL relations. This is why we have C, K, L & M or a total of four circuit coefficients. C and L are self inductions, which means that if looked at from a lumped element point of view they can only store and return energy, THEY DO NOT TRANSFER ENERGY. K and M are mutual inductions, these if looked at from a lumped element point of view can be thought to only be able to transfer energy, they DO NOT STORE ENERGY.

Now if we combine both the SELF and MUTUAL inductions along with LUMPED and DISTRIBUTED ELEMENTS, we enter into a brave new world, one that will change your views on electrical circuits for the better. Here lies the "meat and potatoes" of what Mr. Dollard has been lecturing about. For now lets consider the specific employment of lumped elements, for example a common man, low frequency, 1:1 transformer utilizing a permeable core of soft iron.

Lets examine the LUMPED, MUTUAL and SELF Inductions of the Transformer. A transformer is wound to have almost NO SELF INDUCTION, this is because self induction CAN NOT TRANSFER ENERGY (it can only store and return energy), here MUTUAL INDUCTION IS EMPLOYED FOR USE. In the transfer of energy, mutual induction acts like an ADMITTANCE, whereas SELF INDUCTION (of a magnetic element) would act as an IMPEDANCE. When analyzing a transformers characteristics, ANY SELF INDUCTANCE (of the primary) IS CALLED "LEAKAGE INDUCTANCE". Both the Leakage Inductance L (of primary) and the Mutual Inductance M (between windings), in this simple case, are LUMPED ELEMENTS.

Now lets consider the DISTRIBUTED ELEMENTS in the transformer, time to go down the "rabbit hole". Interestingly, the transformer doesn't have a capacitor hooked up but it will still oscillate, why? Well sir, there CAN NOT be an OSCILLATION without the employment of a CONJUGATE FIELD OF INDUCTION, in the case of a transformer (a magnetic element) we need a DIELECTRIC ELEMENT to ALLOW for such an even to occur. This is quite the predicament for those, often unwitting, followers of the LUMPED ELEMENT MODEL, where is the capacitor? Well lets forget those guys and think outside the box, there must be a capacitance distributed throughout the coil, lets call this DISTRIBUTED (MUTUAL) CAPACITY and give it the letter K. This distributed capacity (K) is found IN-BETWEEN EACH TURN of the COIL and thus is CUT UP INTO SMALL LITTLE SELF CAPACITIES (C) that then constitute the whole of K. Next we have yet another DISTRIBUTED ELEMENT this being a SELF CAPACITY (C) of the entire winding to the transformer CORE or GROUND (generally a transformer core is directly connected to ground, so as to be at "zero or earth potential" for safety). Here the entire winding of the transformer can be looked at as a "metallic cylinder" or "capacitor plate" and the ground or transformer core as the other "capacitor plate", thus constituting a self capacity C between these two separate conductors. We will henceforth call this second distributed capacity, the Leakage Capacitance and give it the letter C.

As can be seen there are TWO DISTINCT DISTRIBUTED DIELECTRIC ELEMENTS in and around the transformer, one of self induction, Leakage Capacitance (C) and the other of mutual induction, Mutual Capacitance (K), each having a spatially distinct and separate path of propagation (orthogonal to one another). These being the most simple cases. NOTE, these distributed elements have almost no implications or effect at low frequencies, it is only at high frequencies that these distributed elements make them selves apparent to the naked eye (or oscilloscope screen) in the form of oscillations. A few examples of High Frequency Events, in which the distributed capacities would actually have physical meaning, would be, lightning discharges and arcing to ground or arcing from winding to winding. These HF events, along with the distributed elements of the transformer, cause (sometimes) disastrous oscillatory events in the high-power electrical distribution systems used by the utility companies.

To summarize our above transformer example, we can isolate two lumped magnetic elements, Leakage Inductance L (stored, un-transferable energy of primary) and Mutual Inductance M (transferred energy pri to sec), we also have two (UNINTENDED and often unwanted) distributed dielectric elements, Leakage Capacity C (to ground) and Mutual Capacity K (in-between turns of coil). If we go one step further, we can look at the directions of propagation of these four distinct inductions.

So with the above example and discussion given, lets examine the questions you gave pertaining to these four distinct inductions:

1) L, Leakage Inductance
Q - "The big magnetic fields that push our motors?"
A - My answer would be a resounding NO, leakage inductance can only store energy it CAN NOT TRANSFER ENERGY, thus it would only act as an IMPEDANCE and not as an ADMITTANCE required for the electrical to mechanical transfer of energy to create motion in a motor. The leakage inductance is the exact thing we try to get rid of when designing a motor, and is not something we usually want. There are times when a small leakage inductance can be helpful, this is only when there is a short circuit and the impedance of the leakage inductance prevents catastrophic failure by LIMITING the current of the short circuit.

2) M, Mutual Inductance
Q - "Energy stored in counterspace/innerspace?"
A - Magnetic energy as explained by Mr. Dollard is stored in Normal Space, not the "counter space" as explained by him. Mutual induction of the magnetic field is that which transfers energy in-between two separate coils, there is no storage of energy here, only the transfer of energy from one distinct coil to another. This topic can be found to yield many interesting and practical insights, but I will leave this subject for another time.

3) C, Leakage Capacitance
Q - "The field created by an electrostatic generator, or in a vacuum capacitor?"
A - Inside the vacuum capacitor there is NO LEAKAGE CAPACITANCE, this is normal SELF CAPACITANCE, although if at high frequency, when small capacities are physically meaningful, there is a leakage capacitance associated with the vacuum capacitors outer plate to ground (or any and all surroundings) (and on the topic of high frequencies, EVERYTHING has an associated leakage capacitance). Furthermore, only "quantum physicists" think a vacuum capacitor operates differently from any other capacitor type, at the end of the day there is little to NO difference, aside from the SPEED of DISCHARGE (which is due to permittivity affecting the manifest "velocity of light"). The electrostatic generator is a highly complex induction machine which converts mechanical energy (or seemingly this is the source) to electrostatic potential stored in a condenser. There may undoubtedly be a leakage capacitance associated with the electrostatic generators operation, but don't try to fool yourself into thinking that (leakage capacity) is the only thing going on during operation.

4) K, Mutual Capacitance
Q - "Energy stored in counterspace/innerspace?"
A -ALL DIELECTRIC ENERGY IS CONSIDERED AS A COUNTER SPATIAL ENERGY. Thus, the storage of dielectric energy is greater when there is MORE counter space for the energy to occupy. This can be looked at as the RECIPROCAL of SPACE or a "large space" divided into the "unit" (1) is an equally large "counter space". This is seen in the design of a capacitor, the closer the plates are the more "storage" or "capacity" the capacitor has, it's that simple.

5) Bonus Question on Capacity of a Wire
Q - "On a 20 secondary with spaced windings does approaching the coil with your hand increase its mutual capacity K, or its self capacity C??? but before you answer think what would happen if you had a long straight wire and could measure it's C. What would happen to the meter if you approached the wire?"
A - This is an interesting question and the answer is dependent upon perspective, how do you plan to measure the capacitance? This question answers your question but doesn't really give an answer, so lets work our way through this. First, ALL METALLIC SURFACES HAVE A DEFINITE CAPACITY REGARDLESS OF BEING REFERENCED WITH ANOTHER METALLIC SURFACE. When we measure a capacity we usually place TWO metallic surfaces of interest as close together as possible, we unwittingly try to make lumped elements. When considering a distributed capacity we generally can no longer use the methods and understanding of lumped elements, here lies the problem of measurement, how do we measure only one surface? Well there are techniques to do this but are beyond the scope of your question and my answer. So more to the point, the measurement of capacity is a problem of reference and THERE ARE MULTIPLE CAPACITIES ASSOCIATED WITH THE WIRE IN YOUR QUESTION and consequently multiple answers. An outstretched wire will have a greater "free-space capacity" while the coiled wire will have a greater self capacity to any-one object. Moving your hand closer increases C (leakage capacity) not K (mutual capacity). K is when there are multiple C's that are mutually connected with one another, or MULTIPLE separate metallic surfaces linked via dielectric flux, this in the secondary is seen in-between turns.

REFERENCE (for "bonus qustion"):
Fritz Lowenstein - Capacities [1916]

REFERENCES (for "common man transformer" discussion):
CP Steinmetz - Abnormal Strains in Transformers [1912]
JM Weed - Abnormal Voltages In Transformers [1915]
LF Blume & A Boyajian - Abnormal Voltages within Transformers [1919]
LV Bewley - Traveling Waves on Transmission Systems [1933]

To be continued in part 2

Garrett M
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Last edited by garrettm4; 03-30-2012 at 11:42 PM.
  #1220  
Old 03-30-2012, 04:35 PM
nw7w7 nw7w7 is offline
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Thank You Eric!

Eric, I just wanted to Thank You for providing the can opener of Truths...To long have our thoughts and understandings been confined in this sealed can of rotting garb. SO THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU .... You have reopened my interest and brain, and given hope that there is HOPE.....

I know now why my DeVry professors would squirm and squeal at my questioning the status quo. I always knew deep down that the force fed crap they were teaching just didnt taste right....

You are my ROCKSTAR ...so keep on a rocking

I would also like to thank garrettm4, lamare, Raui as well as others your thoughts and post have been extremely helpful in understanding some of this material.

OOoo and Tuks.nl is a great portal of knowledge .. thank you for all your hard work there.

Thanks Again

Nate
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  #1221  
Old 03-30-2012, 05:14 PM
garrettm4 garrettm4 is offline
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Down the Rabbit Hole We Go Part II - To the Center of the Earth

Continuing from Part I,

Lets leave the common man transformer example and move on to the more advanced Tesla Transformer. Here we almost exclusively employ DISTRIBUTED ELEMENTS, notably in the secondary and extra coils. The terminal capacity, primary loop and its associated capacitor are the few lumped elements used. Lets focus on the secondary winding for now, this being the actual TRANSFORMER of the so called "transformer". (On a side note, I believe the extra coil does have a part in this as well, it may very well be the "non-Newtonian reference frame" from which the circuit uses as a "universal reference point" to "push against" allowing for the one wire system to work, or at least assist the secondary in this line of thought. Although, Tesla didn't always use the extra coil in the transformers design, so this topic is debatable.) The secondary is where (part of) the magic happens, this is where we go from the orthodox TWO WIRE to a mysterious ONE WIRE configuration. The most confounding thing about the secondary is that YOU ONLY USE ONE WIRE (the earth connection), this from a two wire perspective is almost blaspheme and down right paradoxical, well sir lets find out how this is possible, time to go further down the rabbit hole. For simplicity we will leave the extra coil out of the discussion, at least for a little while.

In the secondary of the Tesla Transformer all "known" "understandings" can generally be put aside. This is because they do not factor the entire winding as being used for inductance L, capacitance C, enductance M and elastance K simultaneously. Stated in another way, the Mutual and Self inductions of the Magnetic and Dielectric Fields are employed for use in the secondary, whereas Co-Axial wire only utilizes the SELF inductions of the magnetic and dielectric fields (coax more notably uses dielectric self induction and suppresses, but does not completely get rid of, the magnetic self induction). These are all in the form of UNIFORM DISTRIBUTED INDUCTIONS, there are no lumped capacitors, inductors or resistors here. The thought of where's the capacitor and where's the inductor, needs to be left behind (and only for use when working with the lumped elements of the terminal capacity, primary loop and its associated capacitor).

(I will finish this when I get some more free time)

Garrett M
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Last edited by garrettm4; 03-30-2012 at 05:16 PM.
  #1222  
Old 03-30-2012, 05:53 PM
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madhatter madhatter is offline
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Garrett, great post. Coax line though is bit more complex and involves the rotation of j or k in Erics notes. there is also the consideration of the coil too as it's usually considered a complex form or looped transmission line but simplified reduction will loose the true nature of what's going on.

I posted this in the yahoo groups and will share it here for others.
I'm developing a physical theory for capacitance to surface area between objects. I need to modify a couple equations to get the terms in there proper places. take two cylinders of radius r and r' with a given axial distance of d, I now need to put a hyperbolic curve between both tangent points that is based on induction frequency and a function of skin depth which is frequency dependent, there is also the permittivity constant k and resistivity of the cylinder to factor which is also frequency dependent too, and if that isn't enough there is still the variable of the axial distance d and that all needs to be a function of cosine of the angular frequency and needs to bring in the counter-space of rotation to plane shifting.

As much as a all-in-one equation would be great I get the feeling it may be easier to piece it out and integrate.

I'll try and explain a bit further here on the dielectric to capacitance. In Erics notes there is an equation for reactance it's a modified phase velocity equation and makes complete sense as it fits the theory I have been working on too, to cut my time short I've been going back over Erics work and he has the framework for this worked out nicely but still lacks useable engineering equations because this is completely new ground to cover and will rely on counter-space algebra. Ok so the basic outline is this, the dielectric in counter-space is time invariant, reactance is a time variant gateway to what would be best described as an open/close of counter-space this is achieved through rotation in counter-space where it translates to plane shifting in vector space. if we took a cross section look two parallel cylinders so that it would be a diagram of two circles on the same axis separated by a distance, the area of capacitance would vary over time based on the frequency of the wave, this makes the capacitance a time variant function which is why AC is not blocked by a capacitor, however this also introduces another topology, the axial linear direction. the capacitance area is a function of the wave form as it moves along the wire, now if we loop the wire the wave shift between turns will be a function of the loop radius and pitch, at the point where the wave loops upon itself and is out phase by 180* it will resonate, it becomes immediately obvious that the radius is dependent upon the frequency and will have various numerical answers, the radius also needs to account for inductance as well. For any given frequency the inductance and capacitance need to match to cancel and this is the resonance. by being able to accurately calculate these quantities we can engineer any frequency quickly.

There is a number of variables that may be circular and I want to avoid that. In the above it also highlights the DC nature of resonance as the capacitance wave phase area is no longer shifting along the wire but resonating as a standing wave, the value of the capacitance is based on the distance between the surfaces and from this theory it shows that as the distance increases the amplitude of resonance will fall off and there will be a change to the resonant point as this also effects the induction. a straight line transmission also exhibits this as well but if the distance to a nearby plane or surface is too large the value will be too small to factor. Steinmetz also points out in Chapter 2 of theory and calculation of alternating currents. from page 330
Quote:
"The difference is due to the distributed character of L and C
in the transmission line and the resultant phase displacement
between the elements of the line, which causes the inductance
and capacity of the line elements, in their effect on the frequency,
not to add but to combine to a resultant, which is the projection
of the elements of a quadrant, on the diameter, or - 2/pi times the
sum, just as, for instance, the resultant m.m.f. of a distributed
armature winding of n turns of i amperes is not ni but - (2/pi)ni."
In looking at work of Steinmetz and Tesla connections start to form. the bulk of Steinmetz equations all deal with transmission line and power supply, however they are full of gems and insights that can be adapted and used to duplicate and expand further on Tesla's work. Eric's engineering of the dimensions for the coils at first brush had me scratching my head, but not one to take things at face value and wanting to always understand the why I dug further into research and reference texts and this light went on and the above theory was roughed out. close approximation isn't really going to work for longitudinal dielectricty, it needs to be fine tuned and balanced just right due to the numerous variables. electro-magnetic really is crude. a tuned distributed circuit with all terms is harmony.
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  #1223  
Old 03-30-2012, 08:10 PM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garrettm4 View Post
Well sir, there CAN NOT be an OSCILLATION without the employment of a CONJUGATE FIELD OF INDUCTION, in the case of a transformer (a magnetic element) we need a DIELECTRIC ELEMENT to ALLOW for such an even to occur.
That is an interesting statement, which is not entirely true at the fundamental level, IMHO.

Let's first go back to what Eric said some time ago:

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex View Post
It is generally considered that any wave must consist of a conjugate pair of energies, magnetic and dielectric let's say. Only then an interaction between time and space is possible. As I have shown recently it is through the union of a conjugate pair (L and C) that the dimension of time is produced. The propagation constant is then equal to:

(1) Negative Gamma Square

Having a pair of imaginary roots, plus j Gamma and minus j Gamma

It is however that the JJ Thompson Longitudinal Dielectric Motions cannot have a periodic solution, there is one energy only, dielectric. This needs to be resolved.
Fundamentally, you need some kind of momentum in order to have oscillation or wave movement trough the medium, yes. However, that momentum does not HAVE to be magnetic in nature. That is, there is no need for the momentum to be of a ROTATIONAL nature, as is the fundamental nature of the magnetic field.

In other words: the inductance we work with, the magnetic inductance, is NOT a fundamental property of the aether. There is a more fundamental kind of momentum, which somehow gives rise to the magnetic momentum by means of some kind of rotational propagation. And when we are considering the magnetic momentum as a fundamental property of the aether, we are overlooking this more fundamental, non-rotational momentum, which is why we cannot find periodic solutions to longitudinal dielectric motions. There IS another energy we need to consider...


I believe the work of Paul Stowe to give important clues of how to resolve the problem put forth by Eric. Don't be bothered too much by Stowe's choice of dimensions as Eric did previously (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post173400). Stowe's dimensions are the result of the way he describes the properties of the medium in terms of Newtonian fluid dynamics. I totally agree with Eric that this is not the correct way to describe the properties of the medium and that it eventually leads to incorrect dimensions. So, yes, this is an issue that needs to be resolved and CAN be resolved. For now, just consider it an important detail to be resolved later.

What Stowe gives us, is a mathematical framework that goes a long way of connecting all aspects of physics into one unified theory, even though there are some questions left that may very well have to do with his choice of dimensions:

Tuks DrippingPedia : Stowe Personal E Mail

Quote:
What I don't know is why the value of the Magnetic Moment Anomaly is required to bring the more basic expressions in line with measurements. What I do know is the MMA is the square of the dielectic and magnetic suseptability of air. Don't know why this is either.
All right. In his article about the nature of charge, he first of all notes that the aether MUST be compressible:

Tuks DrippingPedia : Stowe Nature Of Charge

Quote:
with the incompressible assumption, there can be no change in density. [...] This definition requires infinite propagation speeds of any perturbations in such incompressible systems, eliminating any possibility of wave activity.
And then he continues explaining a unique characteristic of all compressible media, which is required for acoustic (longitudinal) waves to propagate:

Quote:
Conversely, in compressible mediums we see that (rho)Div v equals the time rate of change in the density d(rho)/dt. For the limit, as a volume element [s] go to zero, we get:

s(rho)Div v = s(d(rho)/dt)

This is based on the observation that for the two terms to sum to zero, and therefore must have opposite signs. This leads directly to:

mDiv v = dm/dt

And cannot be zero. This is an important finding, it describes a unique characteristic of all compressible systems. The result of this is a fixed finite propagation speed for any perturbations in the resulting continuum, leading to standard acoustic behavior.

In general the physical consequences of this definition has been overlooked, due to an almost universal adoption of the 'assumption' of incompressibility, in evaluating the general behavior of such systems. This eliminates many higher order terms, greatly simplifying the equations, and generally doesn't introduce significant errors in the results obtained.

It does however eliminate this property and any resulting consequences from any such evaluations. As should be obvious, as a limit, this definition has a unique value fixed by the density and velocity of the constitute continuum.

So, what is the above equation saying? It appears to be saying that compressible medium will have a basic oscillation of density fluctuation occurring continuously.
Now let's jump to his conclusion:
Quote:
Thus, there should be little doubt, given the preceding presentation, that the property we call charge is an inevitable result of field compressibility and inexorably connected to the wave properties of the continuum.

Moreover, given this definition, Permitivitty and Permeability which today have arbitrary definitions, become density and inverse energy density (pressure/modulus). This facilitates the conversion of all EM/QM properties into prosaic medium properties and results in a completely consistent system that will match all physical observations.
Of course, if "all EM/QM properties" can be converted into "prosaic medium properties", you can also go the other way around.

And that I think is basically what needs to be done with this theory. Then you should end up with a theory that unifies all of physics into one unified theory, thus uniting all of physics by a compressible aether defined in terms of EM properties....






BTW, Stowe also gives a theoretical relation between the propagation speed of longitudinal (compression) waves and transverse (shear) waves:

Quote:
For a solid we have the further complication of whether we are evaluating the compression or shear . The relationship between these two in a perfect elastic medium is that the shear wave travel at a speed Sqrt(3) time slower than the compression wave.
sqrt(3) is about 1.73, pretty close to the pi/2 we have been calculating with thus far. Of course, this has to do with "real" transverse waves, which are different beasts than EM waves in the far field, which means you COULD have differences between the near field and the far field that could lead to errors in the calculations.

Last edited by lamare; 03-30-2012 at 08:19 PM. Reason: typo
  #1224  
Old 03-30-2012, 08:15 PM
Nhopa Nhopa is offline
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Congratulation dR-Green

Quote:
Originally Posted by dR-Green View Post
I was doing some experiments the other night with a specific goal in mind, it all started relatively unrelated to this, but one thing led to another and I decided to try the crystal radio principle in the house, seeing as the big coil I'm using to receive the radio has 4x the wire length of my small coil. So the idea was to replicate the main objective but using my own power source to try and get a better idea of things. 52.65m transmitter and 13m receiver secondary wire lengths approx.

First before I forget, a normal crystal radio can be connected to the transmitter as a one wire receiver along with tuning, and it also receives without any wires as an "AV plug" type device with tuning which may be of interest to those interested in the SEC type devices. It needs the "ground" and "terminal capacitance" to work properly whether using direct connections or not, but it will easily light LEDs.

The normal receiver worked so I tried Eric's crystal circuit with the small spiral. For the original goal I didn't want a direct connection so here I was using a tinfoil ground plane on the coil output with various bits of metal close to it to receive the energy. That worked too, but it was better when the C0 shorted (or connected directly) across the receiver secondary. Next, the power circuit. Also worked, but it was better with C2 removed from the circuit.

But the point here was I was now thinking of it in terms of the radio instead of "energy transmission". That was an interesting revelation I decided to earth the transmitter by connecting it to the radiator, and use a metal receiving plate to see if I could get anything off the radiator with no physical connection. Lo and behold the LEDs lit on the receiver And to cut an even longer story short, I used a direct connection from the radiator to the receiver was able to tune it for best output. It will even light a 15w 240v incandescent bulb very dimly, but I was very excited by the fact it even lit at all from an earthed wire. So this might not exactly be the goal of this thread, but personally I thought it might be an useful way of having some "known" source of power to be able to test the theory and learn a bit about it.

Anyway this video shows the result so far, I suppose the main thing to note of relevance here being the effect of the terminal capacitance when its distance from the radiator is adjusted. The cardboard has tinfoil sandwiched inside it. Without adjusting the distance like that it would need pretty big terminal capacitance for the best output.

[edit] I forgot to mention, the primary is in series with the secondary for best output, and the fridge shelves are a part of the terminal capacitance.

Tesla "Wireless" Electrical Transmission Via Earthed Central Heating Pipes - YouTube
This is fantastic what you have accomplished. While theories are important it is a successful experiment what is the topping on the cake. Interesting to note that you have used the flat spiral coil form in your set-up. Tesla was very found of these type of coils and probably for a good reason. In the book "The Fantastic Inventions of Nikola Tesla" there is a picture of Tesla sitting front of a flat spiral coil over 2 meters in diameter and about 91 turns of wire. I would like to show the picture but I am not sure if it would not violate copy rights.
But going back to your experiment, it will give us, fellow experimenters, the needed assurance that Eric's 'crystal" radio works. It would help us a lot if you could make a sketch of your set-up to show how much does it deviate from the published circuit. Do you think that an improved grounding system would increase the performance? Did you get to the point where you started to "blow" the 1N34 diodes?
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Nhopa View Post
This is fantastic what you have accomplished. While theories are important it is a successful experiment what is the topping on the cake. Interesting to note that you have used the flat spiral coil form in your set-up. Tesla was very found of these type of coils and probably for a good reason. In the book "The Fantastic Inventions of Nikola Tesla" there is a picture of Tesla sitting front of a flat spiral coil over 2 meters in diameter and about 91 turns of wire. I would like to show the picture but I am not sure if it would not violate copy rights.
But going back to your experiment, it will give us, fellow experimenters, the needed assurance that Eric's 'crystal" radio works. It would help us a lot if you could make a sketch of your set-up to show how much does it deviate from the published circuit. Do you think that an improved grounding system would increase the performance? Did you get to the point where you started to "blow" the 1N34 diodes?
Thank you But just to be clear, I'm using my own power source upstairs for this experiment, not the radio station. I don't think I'll be able to light up LEDs from the radio station power because the coil isn't built properly for it, so the point of this was to get a better idea of how it would or "should" work. I thought it would be easier if I'm using a "known" power source, starting close range and then extending it. So then I know where it works and when it stops working and needs adjusting etc.

But then at the same time I'm not sure that the fact it is working off the same central heating system is a good sign in this case. That suggests to me that instead of the energy going into the earth, it's coming into another coil, and enough of it to power LEDs, so it's "easier" to light the LEDs than to go into the earth?? So that implies I need better grounding. And I suppose that also works in the opposite direction, that better grounding would lead to better reception of the radio station. Certainly no diodes blown from the radio signal yet, and I didn't spend long using them with my own power source with an LED load because I wasn't happy with the fact that to get the best output I had to connect the "antenna" lead directly to the top of the secondary.

I know the picture you mean, I think there's 3 different pictures of that coil and he has a different winding configuration in each one. In one of them it looks like he has an extra coil type of thing for the spiral as well, not only the Colorado Springs setup. Not sure if it actually is an extra coil though. I read somewhere Tesla mentioning that he preferred a flat spiral for transmitting "signals", and the 3 coil arrangement for transmitting power. I don't know if there's any "practical" reason for this, besides the fact that for power transmission you'd have to use "no higher than 20-35kHz", and making a flat spiral for that frequency would be quite a lot of work. So it might just be easier to do the 3 coil setup for that reason? That's my guess. It might be worth making a flat spiral and a 3 coil setup for the same frequency to compare things.

I'll make a diagram of how things are set up in that video anyway. It's already in one of Eric's diagrams posted here but I'll draw it exactly according to all the connections used so there's no confusion. Back shortly
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:44 PM
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I'll see if I can put a torrent file together. Or if somebody has some ftp space available to the tune of about 2 GB, P.M. me and we can work something out.

Dave
I can help seed it for a while if you make a torrent.

For those wanting to download off youtube, this is a good program. You just copy the youtube link and it will automatically decrypt the url and present you with a list of files to select from, all the different quality versions of the video, flv, mp4, mp3.

JDownloader.org - Official Homepage

Otherwise Internet Explorer 6 does the job nicely. Just wait until the video streams and copy the file from Temporary Internet Files It's not quite as easy with the newer versions.
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"Knowledge is cosmic. It does not evolve or unfold in man. Man unfolds to an awareness of it. He gradually discovers it." - Walter Russell

"Once men died for Truth, but now Truth dies at the hands of men." - Manly P. Hall
  #1227  
Old 03-30-2012, 10:23 PM
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Perrine Liberation

Anyone with a copy of the text “Physics and Mathematics in Electrical Communication” that would like to help me 'liberate' it's contents should send me a message so we can organize a division of labor.
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  #1228  
Old 03-30-2012, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by lamare View Post
That is an interesting statement, which is not entirely true at the fundamental level, IMHO.

Let's first go back to what Eric said some time ago:



Fundamentally, you need some kind of momentum in order to have oscillation or wave movement trough the medium, yes. However, that momentum does not HAVE to be magnetic in nature. That is, there is no need for the momentum to be of a ROTATIONAL nature, as is the fundamental nature of the magnetic field.

In other words: the inductance we work with, the magnetic inductance, is NOT a fundamental property of the aether. There is a more fundamental kind of momentum, which somehow gives rise to the magnetic momentum by means of some kind of rotational propagation. And when we are considering the magnetic momentum as a fundamental property of the aether, we are overlooking this more fundamental, non-rotational momentum, which is why we cannot find periodic solutions to longitudinal dielectric motions. There IS another energy we need to consider...
From what I've been able to work out, there isn't another energy it's the geometry of the 'director' and a function of the period that gives rise to L,C and the rest.

a single line will have inductance and capacitance and resistance all as a function of the frequency, looping the line upon itself changes the topology and geometry of how the dielectric is transformed into our dimensional plane. The wave phase velocity is part of the key as to why this is. 'insulators' are the conductive or attractive medium of the dielectric and the metallic elements are the 'directive' or guiding medium for the dielectric field. The magnetic field is a result of the wave group moving thru any dimensional plane. the time invariant nature is due to that the dielectric field has no vector quantity, whereas any dimensional plane the conductors and directors are in do. The geometry and topology are key.

the problem I've seen so far with the math is that it tends to fall back to Newtonian or wave mechanics. quantum physics has this problem as it dragged F=MA into E=MC^2. C is a constant not a fundamental limiting unit.

I have reservations about the term 'momentum' as it conjures up a mass equivalent or mechanics involved where there is none in the dielectric field. conducting and directing the dielectric in our dimension will effect those mediums, now the tricky part or possible circular term arises because of the wave nature of everything. The structure of matter is a result of the dielectric fields interaction in the 3dimensional manifold.

gotta run, more later tonight..
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Old 03-31-2012, 03:22 AM
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Standard physics to the extent that I have surveyed it seems to have ended with Dr. Feynman and QED. Feynman undoubtedly capable of formal calculations wound up inventing Feynman diagrams to simplify things. Eric D. has made a similar sort of suggestion somewhere of making up a new sort of math to try to tackle his problems.

Tesla seemed to work mainly from intuition which was fine as far as his inventing went, but it does not help others who are less intuitive or insightful carry on his work.

Eric D seems to be attempting to synthesize Tesla, Steinmetz and Heaviside ...
which is all fine and good...but how many genius kind of people have the background and or the ability to tackle such a load?

I respect and honor anyone who can take on such heroic lifting and can only stand on the sidelines and hope to see the fireworks unfold. Thanks for your efforts.
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  #1230  
Old 03-31-2012, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by dR-Green View Post
I can help seed it for a while if you make a torrent.

For those wanting to download off youtube, this is a good program. You just copy the youtube link and it will automatically decrypt the url and present you with a list of files to select from, all the different quality versions of the video, flv, mp4, mp3.

JDownloader.org - Official Homepage

Otherwise Internet Explorer 6 does the job nicely. Just wait until the video streams and copy the file from Temporary Internet Files It's not quite as easy with the newer versions.
I will be making a torrent file as soon as I get the PowerPoint presentation onto my computer. It arrived today. I should have this available some time next week.

Dave
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