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  #1081  
Old 02-27-2012, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
This is real PITA! the edit function is a not working!

The above equation should read: H-(d x N)/N-1
yep I have lost several posts that way! Try and remember to hit advanced then preview then save and it will work every time.
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  #1082  
Old 02-27-2012, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by garrettm4 View Post
7imix,

I would have to disagree somewhat with what you just wrote. In the secondary I believe you increase the diameter of the windings and decrease the number of windingss to proportionate the magnetic field to dielectric for a subsequent balanced ELECTRIC FIELD as per Mr. Dollard's "Transmissions" have pointed out (less turns less magnetic energy, larger surface-area between turns more dielectric energy). I may be wrong but I believe that the two voltages e & E are designed to nullify one another in the secondary BUT the currents i & I DON'T. Thus creating a MONO-POLAR or longitudinal current for ONE WIRE transmission through the earth (with an appropriate receiver of course). The extra coil, which isn't always used, on the other hand is made to do the exact opposite, or have the least self capacity and mutual inductance while having the most self inductance and possibly mutual-capacity as well. Here the currents i & I nullify leaving only a mono-polar voltage. The terminal capacity, and its delay line, may be used to control the voltage gradient emitted by the extra coil, which is clearly seen to be a problem in the Colorado Springs transmitters. The exact relation of the secondary and extra coil is a bit cloudy for me right now. Exactly how these all work together, I'm unsure at the moment.

Garrett M
I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with me about. The edit function is broken, so I was not able to make my edit to fix where I misspoke about the conductor distance affecting the capacitance. As the conductors get farther apart, the capacitor gets smaller.

I was just talking about the distributed capacitance of coils in general, and should not have made a distinction about whether it was an extra coil or secondary.

Increasing the diameter of the windings to increase inductance, and increasing the distance between turns and decreasing the number of turns to reduce capacitance, in order to balance coil (especially when taking the actual wire length versus frequency into account) is exactly what I was talking about.
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  #1083  
Old 02-27-2012, 07:35 PM
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dude really 62% again

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Originally Posted by 7imix View Post
I think the reason for the 62% spacing is because you have to think of each pair of windings as a capacitor. As the windings get further apart, the distributed capacitance between every turn starts to add up. The farther the plates of a capacitor are apart, the smaller the capacitor. Therefore, the farther the turns in a coil are apart, the smaller the distributed capacitance of the coil. You can see tesla calculating this and talking about it in "Colorado Springs Notes."
or

Quote:
Originally Posted by garrettm4 View Post
7imix,

I would have to disagree somewhat with what you just wrote. In the secondary I believe you increase the diameter of the windings and decrease the number of windingss to proportionate the magnetic field to dielectric for a subsequent balanced ELECTRIC FIELD as per Mr. Dollard's "Transmissions" have pointed out (less turns less magnetic energy, larger surface-area between turns more dielectric energy). I may be wrong but I believe that the two voltages e & E are designed to nullify one another in the secondary BUT the currents i & I DON'T. Thus creating a MONO-POLAR or longitudinal current for ONE WIRE transmission through the earth (with an appropriate receiver of course).


Ok, If we go down this road. What definations apply?

i.e.
What equation determines the capatance of the side by side windings?

What equation determines the inductance of the side by side windings?

and

Do you set them equal to each other or take the product equal to 1?



Also,

The negative numbers on the extra coil.

I agree with what some of you have said. everything about the extra coil wire size is predetermined by formula.

Therefore you may have a few options. Wind what you have on there and either:

equally space it out,
or
slowly increase the spacing as you reach the end of the coil like in the Colorado coil,
or
balance it out like others have suggested<----- I like this idea and is why I cant get over the spacing aspect.


jake
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  #1084  
Old 02-27-2012, 08:43 PM
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Jake, I believe you posted the xcel sheet on groups. I've edited it a bit to match my notes and the noticeable issue is that as the Fq increases the scale decreases to where it's physically impossible to build such a unit based on Erics dimensions.

I had to take some liberties and ignore the skin depth equation as it's not the one I know of, and use the long version with permeability resistivity etc...

Active copper dia I take to mean as the skin depth in cmils converted to a wire gauge that utilizes the full current depth. Not familiar with Erics eq but there are some out there on the net that will calculate it based on Fq. need to run some calcs on that and see if that's what his intent was.

For those who have managed to build this receiver, what dimensions were used? as noted the worksheets posted by Eric are not going to get one all the needed information.
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  #1085  
Old 02-28-2012, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by dR-Green View Post
Hi Skiv. Rather than answering all your questions directly I will give you my flat spiral coil specs to give you an idea, built before any of the crystal radio stuff came up so wasn't intended for any of this, using the method described a few pages back (starting with primary and matching copper weight for secondary).
Thanks! I have seen Eric's restatement of Tesla's "equal weights" dictum to "equal effects." What I had been thinking about was a copper strip primary, with the 14AWG secondary. Now, I'm guessing that he means 14 ga. solid?

One of my questions was whether Eric was using it to transmit -- or just as a receiving outfit. The SBARC video seemed to indicate, from a comment he made in response to a question, that he was using it for both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dR-Green View Post
In relation to Eric's equation for calculating secondary conductor length:

ls = 4.8 x 10*9 / 882000 = 54.421768707482993197278911564626 metres
Thanks! Looks like that should be (4.8 x 10*9/f in cycles)/100 to get that answer?

In that case I'll plug my numbers: (4.8 x 10*9/3725000)/100 = 12.8859 metres.

I was thinking about something a metre in diametre at the primary, which at a 3-lamba/4 secondary would be somewhere around 20 turns in a spiral. I approximated number of turns (at velocity C) by figuring the diametre of progressively smaller circles, using a 1 cm turn spacing. Nice to work at low freqs where a centimetre more or less is essentially insignificant (instead of five wavelengths )

Thanks for the input. I'm obviously still trying to make sense of all this!
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  #1086  
Old 02-28-2012, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiv View Post
Thanks! I have seen Eric's restatement of Tesla's "equal weights" dictum to "equal effects." What I had been thinking about was a copper strip primary, with the 14AWG secondary. Now, I'm guessing that he means 14 ga. solid?

One of my questions was whether Eric was using it to transmit -- or just as a receiving outfit. The SBARC video seemed to indicate, from a comment he made in response to a question, that he was using it for both.



Thanks! Looks like that should be (4.8 x 10*9/f in cycles)/100 to get that answer?

In that case I'll plug my numbers: (4.8 x 10*9/3725000)/100 = 12.8859 metres.

I was thinking about something a metre in diametre at the primary, which at a 3-lamba/4 secondary would be somewhere around 20 turns in a spiral. I approximated number of turns (at velocity C) by figuring the diametre of progressively smaller circles, using a 1 cm turn spacing. Nice to work at low freqs where a centimetre more or less is essentially insignificant (instead of five wavelengths )

Thanks for the input. I'm obviously still trying to make sense of all this!

if you are going to build one that big might I suggest that you tune it near a harmonic of the earths resonance?
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  #1087  
Old 02-28-2012, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Kokomoj0 View Post
if you are going to build one that big might I suggest that you tune it near a harmonic of the earths resonance?
If I read his Fq right that's 3.725Mhz which makes the secondary coil about 8" in Dia. that's small.
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  #1088  
Old 02-28-2012, 04:06 AM
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I very recently came into possession of the following documents that I thought might be helpful. Two of them are by Arthur Kennelly entitled 'Vector Power in Alternating Current Circuits' and 'Impedance, Angular Velocities & Frequencies of Oscillating Currents' both of which have been referenced by Eric and I've yet to see any mention of them here. The other has not been directly referenced but is related to complex quantities applied to electrical engineering which is related to Eric's 4 quadrant theory.

Vector Power in Alternating Current Circuits
Impedance, Angular Velocities & Frequencies of Oscillating Currents
--
Complex Quantities and their use in Electrical Engineering

Raui
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  #1089  
Old 02-28-2012, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
If I read his Fq right that's 3.725Mhz which makes the secondary coil about 8" in Dia. that's small.
thats pretty high freq to put through the ground, and the higher the freq the more difficult I imagine it would be to get resonant with the earth since the earth is not a perfect sphere.
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  #1090  
Old 02-29-2012, 03:23 AM
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@ Mad:

Yea, I posted that on the yahoo groups. I liked the "inches conversion" you added. But I'm a chemist so it's all metric for me.

The skin depth calculator will help me tramendously when I build my second generation crystal set. Im anal about using more wire then you neek. but I have to stick with 10/sqrt(F) when building the tesla transformer or until I understand what Im even trying to do there.



I knew nothing about crystal sets 5 months ago but after going through what feels like 100s of "how to's" form the 40s, 50s and 60s I am overwhelmed by the variaty and impressed by the simplicity of a crystal reciever.


I am waiting on a peizo earpiece and some germanium diodes I'm using a shottky for now. but I really want to hear it, but for now I can only see it on a DSOnano. It's taking every ounce of restraint to keep from building a simple amplifier.
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  #1091  
Old 02-29-2012, 04:11 AM
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It's taking every ounce of restraint to keep from building a simple amplifier.
Why not? You'll only be amplifying the audio signal so you can hear it easier. I'd say it helps with getting things set up for the first time if you can actually know what it is that you're hearing at least, instead of just guessing or wondering if you're imagining the sounds I think the point is that it will power the headset by itself, but since we know that already then there's no harm in using an amplifier to hear what you're receiving better. Then you can also judge the quality difference between the other receiver etc.
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  #1092  
Old 02-29-2012, 05:15 AM
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coil love

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Originally Posted by dR-Green View Post
Why not? You'll only be amplifying the audio signal so you can hear it easier. I'd say it helps with getting things set up for the first time if you can actually know what it is that you're hearing at least, instead of just guessing or wondering if you're imagining the sounds I think the point is that it will power the headset by itself, but since we know that already then there's no harm in using an amplifier to hear what you're receiving better. Then you can also judge the quality difference between the other receiver etc.
call me romantic but this is my first and I want it to be special.
that right I said it.. my first..

unfortunatly it will be a short lived romance because I'm winding another AM receiver with looser coupling.. aka much more similar to the two coil tesla transformer.

Anyone want to start a thread on crystal sets? Ill post mine up when I get my parts.
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  #1093  
Old 02-29-2012, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake View Post
@ Mad:

Yea, I posted that on the yahoo groups. I liked the "inches conversion" you added. But I'm a chemist so it's all metric for me.

The skin depth calculator will help me tramendously when I build my second generation crystal set. Im anal about using more wire then you neek. but I have to stick with 10/sqrt(F) when building the tesla transformer or until I understand what Im even trying to do there.



I knew nothing about crystal sets 5 months ago but after going through what feels like 100s of "how to's" form the 40s, 50s and 60s I am overwhelmed by the variaty and impressed by the simplicity of a crystal reciever.


I am waiting on a peizo earpiece and some germanium diodes I'm using a shottky for now. but I really want to hear it, but for now I can only see it on a DSOnano. It's taking every ounce of restraint to keep from building a simple amplifier.
That's alright, I added the inch to metric conversion in spots to handle that most of the wire specs was in imperial units. I added some more calcs to handle Cu density of coax and wire gauge of choice. just uploaded the file.
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  #1094  
Old 02-29-2012, 05:39 AM
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just thinking out loud here but I would imagine if you wanted to increase the sensitivity you could put just a wee bit of forward dc bias on that diode and use a feed through cap to your head set if you wanted to keep it very close to original, or even add an op amp too, or put an amp direct off of the coil LOL. of course then its not really a crystal anymore LOL
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Last edited by Kokomoj0; 02-29-2012 at 05:42 AM.
  #1095  
Old 02-29-2012, 05:52 AM
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i just finished the frame forms for the coils tonight. I found that pegboard and dowels make a great substructure, I also wanted the form to be round so I used lawn edge forms, it's a fiber board strip 3" wide .2" thick and comes in 50' rolls. forming that around the pegs will give a nice round base to work on. I'll get some pics up on the yahoo groups in the next couple of days.
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  #1096  
Old 02-29-2012, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
i just finished the frame forms for the coils tonight. I found that pegboard and dowels make a great substructure, I also wanted the form to be round so I used lawn edge forms, it's a fiber board strip 3" wide .2" thick and comes in 50' rolls. forming that around the pegs will give a nice round base to work on. I'll get some pics up on the yahoo groups in the next couple of days.
which one are you building the crystal receiver or transmitter?
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  #1097  
Old 02-29-2012, 07:59 PM
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When I spoke to Eric yesterday, he was inquiring about some ham radio so that he could have some form of communication aside from the payphones. Is there anybody out there that can locate a working PRC-47 for Eric?

Also, he asked me if I had received any of the material that I had requested from his friends, Hal and Stephan. This material consists of a 300+ page book that Eric calls his "RCA book" that I think documents Eric's adventure into the works of Nikola Tesla. Hal will not seem to release the book for whatever reason. He even stopped responding to my emails. There are also some San Francisco Tesla Society lectures that Stephan has that were supposedly going to be mailed to me but that still hasn't happened even after multiple times of saying "Sure, I'll get those in the mail". I post this in hopes that Hal or Stephan will read this and make something happen. It is a damn shame to see people sit on this type of material...

Does anybody have 30 to 40 acres in Arizona or California that would be willing to let Eric use it as an antennae field?

Dave
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Last edited by Web000x; 02-29-2012 at 08:04 PM.
  #1098  
Old 03-01-2012, 03:31 PM
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Eric's PRC-47 Request

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Originally Posted by Web000x View Post
When I spoke to Eric yesterday, he was inquiring about some ham radio so that he could have some form of communication aside from the payphones. Is there anybody out there that can locate a working PRC-47 for Eric?


Dave
Hi Dave,

I am unable to locate a PRC-47 online anywhere for Eric or I'd attempt to spring for it, in hopes that it even works... I doubt Eric will accept it, but ask him if he will accept a Kenwood TS-50, it is a good mobile HF rig with 100 watts PEP, does USB, LSB, AM, & CW of course. If he is ok with that, what else will he need, tuner, dipole, vertical 40m hamstick? I hope he will accept the TS-50, since even if I can locate and acquire the rare PRC-47, it may not even be operational, and he wants a working rig. If he does accept the TS-50, I'll ship it to him with everything he could need. This will at least get him on the air. Dave, you can personally email me for further discussion on this @ energetix@hush.com.

Regards,
Mike

73 DE WX9HV
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  #1099  
Old 03-01-2012, 03:42 PM
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Hi Dave,

I am unable to locate a PRC-47 online anywhere for Eric or I'd attempt to spring for it, in hopes that it even works... I doubt Eric will accept it, but ask him if he will accept a Kenwood TS-50, it is a good mobile HF rig with 100 watts PEP, does USB, LSB, AM, & CW of course. If he is ok with that, what else will he need, tuner, dipole, vertical 40m hamstick? I hope he will accept the TS-50, since even if I can locate and acquire the rare PRC-47, it may not even be operational, and he wants a working rig. If he does accept the TS-50, I'll ship it to him with everything he could need. This will at least get him on the air. Dave, you can personally email me for further discussion on this @ energetix@hush.com.

Regards,
Mike

73 DE WX9HV
There appears to be a PRC-47 for sale here:
AN/PRC-47 Tactical VHF Transceiver In Stock
Search results for: 'prc-47'

This is a direct link to the unit:
AN/PRC-47 Tactical VHF Transceiver

They ask $300 for it...

Last edited by lamare; 03-01-2012 at 03:45 PM.
  #1100  
Old 03-02-2012, 08:52 AM
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True Wireless by Tesla

Hi

I thought this article by Tesla, printed in the Electrical Experimenter, gives more background supporting Eric's video of the old radio site.

http://www.coralcastlecode.com/siteb.../TESLATrue.pdf

Regards

John
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  #1101  
Old 03-02-2012, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Kokomoj0 View Post
thats pretty high freq to put through the ground,
Yes, it is, BUT...

1. Eric wrote about modelling the Alexanderson Array (originally 19 kc.) in the 160-metre ham band (1900 kc.). Note that's not a flat-coil system; I include it to to show him working higher frequencies. (What I read and see on videos is that it was a great system for storing incredible amounts of circulating energy, but not so hot as a radiator, but I may be misinterpreting.)

2. Eric seems to be saying in the SBARC video that he's using a flat coil system for transmit and receive on 40-metres (7000 kc.).

3. In the longitudinal electricity video, he's using a small flat coil pair setup to transmit and receive a signal (the beach scene).

4. In the Marconi Wireless video, he shows what looks like the exact same flat coil (one of the pair) and explains that it is "a 2.3 megacycle coil" and uses it to receive signals at 10,000 kc.

Looks to me like he's using it at those frequencies, and making it work for communications. If he was using a similar system at 7000 kc in 1986, then that's double the frequency I'm aiming at -- being mindful of the low-frequency advantages. I want to duplicate the design and see how it works.

I'm essentially trying to confirm that I read that right. If I'm right, then building the system seems fairly straightforward (once I've got the math sorted, which may be non-trivial).

Did that throw a little more light on what and why I'm asking? If not, I'll keep trying -- I'm finding new information all the time, and it's helping my understanding.
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  #1102  
Old 03-04-2012, 04:24 AM
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Crystal Radio Rite of Passage

Im moving all my crystal radio questions over to:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post182800

Please show me what you got.

Also I held out until I got the crystal ear piece. It works well. A little too well.
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  #1103  
Old 03-04-2012, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex View Post
Notes on the Crystal Set

When measuring the velocity difference between underground and our ground, the two seperate receivers can be brought into phase unison by the use of a test oscillator. Both receivers must have a primary tank circuit, here you can place your measurement equipment.

The detected AM output, audio frequency, signal is immune to receiver phase shift. This is a property of A.M. detection. Use the audio to measure propagation delay.
Ok, the provisional results of the experiment are in

Transmitter Power = 100kW
Transmitter distance = 84780 Metres
Underground wave velocity approx = 300178714.7 Metres/sec
Average time difference between wave detection = 363.888888888888ns
Ratio to overground wave velocity = 1.001288414
Average audio signal delay = 13469ns

Scope data in Excel charts:

Channel A (Blue) = Underground
Channel B (Red) = Overground





I'll upload the gathered data soon.
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  #1104  
Old 03-05-2012, 09:14 AM
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I don't know if I've calculated it right, but here are some more charts of the data from the experiment in Excel. Based on the 363.888888888888ns difference in the radio signal, the underground wave velocity is 300178714.7 Metres/sec and the journey time is 282.431751µS, giving a ratio of 1.001288414 times the velocity of light. Starting with receivers in phase unison with a test oscillator:



Radio signal:



Audio signal:



Also despite the apparent better reception of the overground wave judging by the radio signal image, the underground receiver was much louder and clearer and had to be turned down to get it equal with the other. The noise/interference in the audio signal of the overground receiver can be seen and compared in the other image as an example. That was one of the best possible samples during the particular experiment.
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  #1105  
Old 03-05-2012, 03:19 PM
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out of curiosity did you put a well grounded faraday cage over the coil and grounds to insure no tem was getting through?
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  #1106  
Old 03-05-2012, 07:07 PM
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Versors as a Personal Matter

And it came to pass, thru the years of 1978 to 1982, that the occurrence of a certain sequence of events took place at a small coastal town called Bolinas, California:

Within my laboratory at R.C.A. Bolinas, I had just completed my first full size Dipolar Tesla Transformer. It was a 500 kilovar unit. This was the product of efforts beginning in my childhood. The objective, physical realization of “Cosmic Superimposition”; the verification of the “Theory of Creation”. This seemingly harmless endeavor was to create for me a life of eternal persecution, even before I started!

Two very important visitors arrived at my BL laboratory, Philo Taylor Farnsworth III, and his mother, the wife of the “Inventor of Television”. They had come to see the “Galaxy in a Lightbulb”. This visit was encouraging, however soon after I was shut out of my BL Laboratory by R.C.A. The Tesla Transformer immediately vanished, and Commonweal destroyed most everything else over a period of time.

Earlier in life, my San Francisco Laboratory at 1360 Howard Street was obliterated, and my stored gear at Pier 3 in Fort Mason was junked. About 10 tons of R.C.A. gear was lost forever. To finish it off Commonweal smashed the rest left behind at R.C.A. Bolinas, about 30 tons total. Soon after my Radio Propagation Laboratory at Sonoma State College, with its priceless R.C.A. dual diversity receivers (SSB-R3) vanished to the winds, this along with surviving R.C.A. records and notes, including the complete blueprints for the 1919 Alexanderson Network. Some of the notes were by Alexanderson himself. All gone. Then R.C.A. went to the bottom like the Titanic. Not much different than my life now IS IT?! But I was only 30 years old that time around, in the cycle of the Continuous Destruction of my efforts. Afterwards, I lived in a box in the bushes in the Town of Bolinas, foraging by day and crawling back into my hole at night, a Human Rat. I actually learned to enjoy rat life, and it had many advantages not found in so-called “Real” Life. But the women in the “Real” Estate office did not like it at all. The box in the bush was close to a house owned by some crazy guy who claimed his father invented Television. Right, and I am Nikola Tesla. One day he invited the rat inside.

When I first met Farnsworth, we were not likely friends. I was an “R.C.A. creation”, and R.C.A., aka David Sarnoff, was the Arch-Enemy of the Farnsworths, this for good reason. I may have been a Human Rat, but Philo did not look so cute either. Years of his own Commonweal Harassment, along with drugs and alcohol, had left Philo a complete wreck. However, I had lived with this on the street before, so it was fine. As the gallon bottle of wine found its way into our bellies our discussion turned to favorite “Sea Tales” of self edification, and the boasting began.

After attentively listening to Philo’s account of how he got into M.I.T. at age 16, this without his parent’s knowledge, I knew I was “one upped”. My tale was only of R.C.A. at age 16, and my parents and school helped. But maybe I did have an even better tale. Next I expounded an event of childhood in the laboratory of my parents garage. My half of the two car garage was crammed with a Few Tons of combined R.C.A. gear from Bolinas and Navy gear from Standard Surplus in S.F. The assemblage was connected directly to the main terminals of the house circuit box. During the intervals in which the parents went out for guaranteed periods of absence, my high school buddies would arrive. It was time to play “Nuclear Meltdown”. Nuclear Meltdown was great fun and looked like an episode right out of the 1960’s T.V. show “Outer Limits”. That was our primary aim. It was however also the dread of the neighbors. Now only did playing Nuclear Meltdown dim the lights in every house on the block, but it also wiped out Television reception for miles. I later learned in the Navy that Nuclear Meltdown even appeared on the Radar Indicators at nearby Hamilton Air Force Base.

Philo convulsed a bit at this point in the story, but not because it was a better one. The radar effects meant that playing “Nuclear Meltdown” created a Controlled Fusion Reaction! In Philo’s mind my connection with R.C.A. was not an issue anymore. I had replicated his father’s fusion work and the Farnsworths had kept this work a secret from public knowledge. Well, you don’t know any better when you are a kid, do you? (Don’t try it today).

It was however that my own interests were more Electrical than Electronic, and Farnsworth was indeed the “Master of the Electron”. My own work, this within the giant Cathedrals of R.C.A., with their Megawatt Polyphase and High Frequency Power Systems, led me to Tesla and Steinmetz, the masters of electricity. Also, the Cosmic Inductorium, as it is properly called, is a Goethean concept, where the Farnsworth Fusor is a Newtonian concept. Farnsworth’s work was outside of my field of endeavor.

My own efforts at this time were directed towards the Steinmetz Versor System, this leading to a better understanding of my Experimental studies and Discoveries. But Philo took an unexpected interest in my Steinmetz work. He and his mother had just finished with their efforts to start a postage stamp series commemorating “The Four”, Farnsworth, Steinmetz, Armstrong, and Tesla. But this was only a historical interest, who cares about the Electricity in the Square Root of minus one anyway? But Philo did, and he made a noteworthy remark: Philo stated that “if you were to develop a system for the Hyperbolic Functions, rather than the Circular Functions, then you would have found the Holy Grail of Electrical Engineering”.

He offered no explanations on this remark but then gave me one of his father’s books. It was “Physics and Mathematics in Electrical Communications” by Perrine. This was the genesis of my work in Versor Alegebra. Now 32 years later, here we stand, in the same hole. Break, more to follow.

DE N6KPH

References,

(1) "Physics & Mathematics in Electrical Communications”, Perrine.

(2) “Farnsworth Writings” of Vassillatos.

(3) "Distant Vision", Elma “Pem” Farnsworth.

(4) “Empire of The Air” P.B.S. Video.

(5) , (6) are Censored, (E.P. Dollard)

(7) “Bolinas Barbera Boxer” E.P. Dollard.

(8) “Borderlands”, Outer Limits T.V. Program.

(9) “Die Kunst Der Fuge” BWV 1080, First Fuge, J.S. Bach.
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  #1107  
Old 03-06-2012, 03:23 AM
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Kokomoj0 Kokomoj0 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dR-Green View Post
I don't know if I've calculated it right, but here are some more charts of the data from the experiment in Excel. Based on the 363.888888888888ns difference in the radio signal, the underground wave velocity is 300178714.7 Metres/sec and the journey time is 282.431751µS, giving a ratio of 1.001288414 times the velocity of light. Starting with receivers in phase unison with a test oscillator:



Radio signal:



Audio signal:



Also despite the apparent better reception of the overground wave judging by the radio signal image, the underground receiver was much louder and clearer and had to be turned down to get it equal with the other. The noise/interference in the audio signal of the overground receiver can be seen and compared in the other image as an example. That was one of the best possible samples during the particular experiment.


I presume that what you did here is build a matched set of coils, one receiving through the air and the other through the ground?

If they are not then we would need to know the both in air differences?
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  #1108  
Old 03-06-2012, 03:25 AM
Kokomoj0's Avatar
Kokomoj0 Kokomoj0 is offline
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Posts: 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by dR-Green View Post
I don't know if I've calculated it right, but here are some more charts of the data from the experiment in Excel. Based on the 363.888888888888ns difference in the radio signal, the underground wave velocity is 300178714.7 Metres/sec and the journey time is 282.431751µS, giving a ratio of 1.001288414 times the velocity of light. Starting with receivers in phase unison with a test oscillator:



Radio signal:



Audio signal:



Also despite the apparent better reception of the overground wave judging by the radio signal image, the underground receiver was much louder and clearer and had to be turned down to get it equal with the other. The noise/interference in the audio signal of the overground receiver can be seen and compared in the other image as an example. That was one of the best possible samples during the particular experiment.


I presume that what you did here is build a matched set of coils, one receiving through the air and the other through the ground?

If they are not then we would need to know the both in air differences?

Ideally two identical coils, one receiving in air and one in a faraday cage receiving telluric?
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  #1109  
Old 03-06-2012, 01:57 PM
Nhopa Nhopa is offline
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20 turn coil vs. 30 turn coil

Quote:
Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
....I would also like to ask if anyone noticed that there is 2 different designs, a 30 turn and 20 turn coil.
I think I have collected enough material to start building the receiver, however, I have a question. I have not seen any reply to Madhatter's question. Did anyone make a 30 turn coil yet? If yes, how does it compare to the 20 turn coil. The more turns the lesser the coil diameter for a given frequency, so this seems to be an advantage. Any comment? Thank you.
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  #1110  
Old 03-06-2012, 03:49 PM
madhatter's Avatar
madhatter madhatter is offline
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I know Eric has mentioned the coaxial braid design complication of calculation. late last night I came across an army navy document with the old Fortran IV code for such a thing. This is coaxial cable braid design parameters by Jack Spergel. I'm working on making the equations and cards useful, hopefully I will have something that can take input from the current line of RG cable and spit out the info desired.

It may seem trivial but there is a specific calculation to the braid, the terms for varies parts are carriers, picks and ends. the carrier is the strand of N number of ends or wires, so for a 15/4 for example that's 15 carriers with 4 ends or 4 wires in each carrier for a total of 60 wires. now the picks are a bit more complicated as that's the weave pattern you see and it's the axial distance that the carriers cover as they braid past each other, that distance is based on the angle of the weave. SO that's the simple version, there's frankly a lot more on surface area, coverage and density.
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