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Eric Dollard Official Forum This forum is dedicated to the work of Eric P. Dollard. His Official homepage is http://ericpdollard.com

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  #841  
Old 01-07-2012, 10:58 PM
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Thoughts on funding...

If Eric was interested, and a publisher would sign him on with some funding upfront, then I say go for it; however, how many people out there in the general populace are really going to be that interested in Eric's information at this point in time? The general television watching, United Nations fluoride treated water drinking, mind controlled public? The standard billion dollar die-silicon-process community of electrical engineers who mock anything other than what is decreed by their handshaking, hoodwinking, 'fellow travelers' of the worshipful masters in the sheepskin-apron wearing priesthood of the grand lodge of the I.E.E.E? Maybe the Bedini crowd because Bearden needs to sell his Nth book (that includes the same recycled garbage as the previous (N-1) monoliths of gibberish)? Even if Eric agreed to put a book out there it's still probably something like 2 to 3 months of work on putting the material together, typesetting the equations, editing, and the pushing it up to the favorite publisher mechanism, and then finding agreement between Eric and the publisher, etc. It can be done, I'm just a little pessimistic about the prospects of this method actually supporting his efforts. It's doubtful Eric would make a dime without the idea of receiving an initial "lump sum of funds" as you say. Oh, and I would give the hairy-eyeball to anyone promoting a multi-level-marketing (aka MLM) style, 'affiliate' style, etc. sales front.

What about the possibility of a blog or website, with weekly payment donation counter, and some method of actually getting those funds to Eric every week? There's also the possibility of getting some audio podcasts, video responses, etc., from Eric to paying members? Sounds complicated too, but doable given the current infrastructure of internet communications 'surveillance' technology brought to you by GE (and the owners of this planet), which have a vested interest in keeping you 'contented with your servitude' and 'happy' in the THX1138 sense of the word.

Still that issue of actually getting funds distributed to Eric is what I question. It sounds like the paypal method is working pretty well at the moment (for those that still use paypal). Also, Eric sounds like the type of guy that can live like a king on $50-$100 a week. That's just $5 from 20 individuals to generate a 'common wealth' lumped sum. I could swing $5 a week for awhile.
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Last edited by Geometric_Algebra; 01-07-2012 at 11:03 PM. Reason: grammar, and typos, as ususal.

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  #842  
Old 01-08-2012, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by lamare View Post
My longitudinal antenna is designed to do just that

I cannot prove yet that it does, but at least it shows a standing wave at a frequency a transverse wave is not supposed to resonate, so I am pretty confident it works:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post173559

This is only practical at pretty high frequencies, though.

The trick is to get rid of the magnetic component using a sleeve balun. This appears to connect both to the Tesla Tower as well as Gray's device. And I think the principe can likely also be applied using coils instead of antenna:

Joulethief SEC exciter and variants

However, no conclusive evidence yet. It may turn out to be the Rosetta stone, it may turn out to nothing much.

what causes me to scratch my head is if there are 2 resonant points one may be based on the length of the wire of the coil etc and the other may be based on the (length?) of the lumped capacitance etc.

At a glance I would think that could account for the 2 peak resonance?

I do not think that would have any impact on LMD but it may on speed?
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  #843  
Old 01-08-2012, 05:02 AM
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Litz Wire

For those of you who have some experience with litz, I'm a little confused on the way this stuff is specified.

So, I was under the impression that for, say, 175/46 litz wire means 175 strands of #46 awg copper. Standard 46 awg copper has a diameter of 0.001568 in., which would result
in an overall diameter of roughly d=175*0.00157=0.273 inches. However, some of the vendors on Ebay claim an overall diameter of 0.035 inches for the same stuff.
It's hard to justify spending $40 on a 200 ft. spool if you don't know what you are getting.
Maybe someone knows of a better vendor for litz wire (and better prices)?
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Last edited by Geometric_Algebra; 01-16-2012 at 08:47 PM.
  #844  
Old 01-08-2012, 02:54 PM
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Somewhere on this set of pages is an explanation that I once understood (for a short period of time):

Custom cables, litz wire, flat braided wire, multiconductor cable from custom wire and cable, and electric wire manufacturer New England Wire Technologies

A source for "surplus" litz (all of it very thin):

wire and cable

pt
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  #845  
Old 01-08-2012, 06:52 PM
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Tesla coil attempt

So based on the thread so far, I made an attempt with components I already had available to make a "true" Tesla Coil. I'm not concerned with transmitting power, I'm interested in demonstrating the same sparking patterns that Eric shows in his photographs. The resonance of my circuit is definitely off, and I need to add another spark gap from the negative side of the charging cap after the inductor. I also don't have the second coil attached to the tesla coil secondary. I used a hockey puck sized neodymium magnet for magnetic quenching of the active spark gap. The tesla coil produced about an inch and a half spark, although I couldn't discern any "ferning" patterns like seen in Dollard's photos. I'm really excited about this and want to keep trying until I figure it out. Diode is 30kv 3 Amp. Caps are parallel .01 uF 30kv ceramic. Inductors are air core 1" diameter 14 gauge, ~4 inches.

Again, I know my resonant frequencies are way off, but I was hoping to produce the effects with components I already had on hand. Also note, this circuit is DANGEROUS. The caps can release lethal currents. Current schematic:

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Last edited by skaght; 01-08-2012 at 07:09 PM.
  #846  
Old 01-08-2012, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Geometric_Algebra View Post
If Eric was interested, and a publisher would sign him on with some funding upfront, then I say go for it; however, how many people out there in the general populace are really going to be that interested in Eric's information at this point in time? The general television watching, United Nations fluoride treated water drinking, mind controlled public? The standard billion dollar die-silicon-process community of electrical engineers who mock anything other than what is decreed by their handshaking, hoodwinking, 'fellow travelers' of the worshipful masters in the sheepskin-apron wearing priesthood of the grand lodge of the I.E.E.E? Maybe the Bedini crowd because Bearden needs to sell his Nth book (that includes the same recycled garbage as the previous (N-1) monoliths of gibberish)?
-----snip----
Damn, we might as well put our head between our knees and crawl into a ball then.

I'm trying to suggest something more permanent, as donations can last only so long from a few people.

As far as Bearden's books, I see no reason to doubt many people have bought them, so why would they not buy Eric Dollard's book(s) then?

For the blog idea to work there has to be tens/hundreds of thousands of visitors with a percentage of them being steady donators for it to work and keep Eric alive.

Besides, Eric would have to dedicate considerable time to running the blog and I believe we both know that he's more interested in the analog hands-on stuff and does not fancy digital technology or the medium.

What else is there, beside getting a full-time job which he might not consider at all?
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  #847  
Old 01-09-2012, 02:53 AM
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Here's some input from Tesla that may be of use. From "EXPERIMENTS WITH ALTERNATE CURRENTS OF HIGH POTENTIAL AND HIGH FREQUENCY."

Suppose a small helix with many well insulated turns has one of its ends connected to one of the terminals of the induction coil, and the other to a metal plate, or, for the sake of simplicity, a sphere, insulated in space. When the coil is set to work, the potential of the sphere is alternated, and the small helix now behaves as though its free end were connected to the other terminal of the induction coil. How does the insulated sphere act in this case? It can be a condenser, storing and returning the energy supplied to it, or it can be a mere sink of energy, and the conditions of the experiment determine whether it is more one or the other.

and the end of the paper is this gem...

"The question is, how far can we go with frequencies? Ordinary conductors rapidly lose the facility of transmitting electric impulses when the frequency is greatly increased. Assume the means for the production of impulses of very great frequency brought to the utmost perfection, every one will naturally ask how to transmit them when the necessity arises. In transmitting such impulses through conductors we must remember that we have to deal with pressure and flow, in the ordinary interpretation of these terms. Let the pressure increase to an enormous value, and let the flow correspondingly diminish, then such impulses—variations merely of pressure, as it were—can no doubt be transmitted through a wire even if their frequency be many hundreds of millions per second. It would, of course, be out of question to transmit such impulses through a wire immersed in a gaseous medium, even if the wire were provided with a thick and excellent insulation for most of the energy would be lost in molecular bombardment and consequent heating. The end of the wire connected to the source would be heated, and the remote end would receive but a trifling part of the energy supplied. The prime necessity, then, if such electric impulses are to be used, is to find means to reduce as much as possible the dissipation.

The first thought is, employ the thinnest possible wire surrounded by the thickest practicable insulation. The next thought is to employ electrostatic screens. The insulation of the wire may be covered with a thin conducting coating and the latter connected to the ground. But this would not do, as then all the energy would pass through the conducting coating to the ground and nothing would get to the end of the wire. If a ground connection is made it can only be made through a conductor offering an enormous impedance, or though a condenser of extremely small capacity. This, however, does not do away with other difficulties.

If the wave length of the impulses is much smaller than the length of the wire, then corresponding short waves will be sent up in the conducting coating, and it will be more or less the same as though the coating were directly connected to earth. It is therefore necessary to cut up the coating in sections much shorter than the wave length. Such an arrangement does not still afford a perfect screen, but it is ten thousand times better than none. I think it preferable to cut up the conducting coating in small sections, even if the current waves be much longer than the coating.

If a wire were provided with a perfect electrostatic screen, it would be the same as though all objects were removed from it at infinite distance. The capacity would then be reduced to the capacity of the wire itself, which would be very small. It would then be possible to send over the wire current vibrations of very high frequencies at enormous distance without affecting greatly the character of the vibrations. A perfect screen is of course out of the question, but I believe that with a screen such as I have just described telephony could be rendered practicable across the Atlantic. According to my ideas, the gutta-percha covered wire should be provided with a third conducting coating subdivided in sections. On the top of this should be again placed a layer of gutta-percha and other insulation, and on the top of the whole the armor. But such cables will not be constructed, for ere long intelligence—transmitted without wires—will throb through the earth like a pulse through a living organism. The wonder is that, with the present state of knowledge and the experiences gained, no attempt is being made to disturb the electrostatic or magnetic condition of the earth, and transmit, if nothing else, intelligence.

It has been my chief aim in presenting these results to point out phenomena or features of novelty, and to advance ideas which I am hopeful will serve as starting points of new departures. It has been my chief desire this evening to entertain you with some novel experiments. Your applause, so frequently and generously accorded, has told me that I have succeeded.

In conclusion, let me thank you most heartily for your kindness and attention, and assure you that the honor I have had in addressing such a distinguished audience, the pleasure I have had in presenting these results to a gathering of so many able men—and among them also some of those in whose work for many years past I have found enlightenment and constant pleasure—I shall never forget."


Taking the above with Heaviside's comment of the wire having to be the source and not the sink correlates to what Tesla is saying and experimented with.
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  #848  
Old 01-09-2012, 04:58 AM
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or, for the sake of simplicity, a sphere, insulated in space
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  #849  
Old 01-09-2012, 07:39 PM
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Turning talk into reality

We all know that the fossil fuel companies won't do it and our corporatized government sure has heck won't do it... so it's up to us, the little people, to stand up and make it happen. It's time to go back to our past for the benefit of our future and resurrect a functioning wireless transmitter, which in turn would fund Dollard.

We could create a consumer cooperative that builds geothermal powered Tesla wireless transmitters, having Dollard as the planner/overseer. As I see it, this is the purest/cleanest form of power generation and delivery. But, it's up for debate. In any case, building a wireless transmitter would be groundbreaking and show the world that Tesla was on the right track. It would also give people something tangible for their investment in the co-op. I could also see building a Tesla museum at the flagship tower, along with a Dollard workshop.

I've been in marketing for over 20 years now and know how to promote and raise financial support for a project. Right now, all I can donate is my time and talents as a marketer. I'm ready to create this cooperative that has total transparency in it's funding and capitol spending. I believe investors/donors need an organization with a goal for their generosity, this would fulfill that requirement.

All I need is a green light from Dollard that he'd build a tower if we where to raise the funding. His support for this venture would greatly increase the ability to raise funds. I'd be happy to channel the fund raising through a paypal account that he is involved with, due to his apprehension in dealing with people he does not know and past transgressions. But, I'd like total public transparency of the donations and their use.

If I receive Eric's blessing and favorable responses then I'll turn on the marketing machine and create the cooperative, buy the domain, build the website and start promoting the concept and fund raising. This is a ton of work, but I'm willing to do it, if it means seeing a working wireless tower and also helps out a great mind of our time.

rw
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  #850  
Old 01-10-2012, 12:20 AM
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or, for the sake of simplicity, a sphere, insulated in space


IE not touching the ground or any other objects.
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  #851  
Old 01-10-2012, 05:57 AM
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We all know that the fossil fuel companies won't do it and our corporatized government sure has heck won't do it... so it's up to us, the little people, to stand up and make it happen. It's time to go back to our past for the benefit of our future and resurrect a functioning wireless transmitter, which in turn would fund Dollard.

If I receive Eric's blessing and favorable responses then I'll turn on the marketing machine and create the cooperative, buy the domain, build the website and start promoting the concept and fund raising. This is a ton of work, but I'm willing to do it, if it means seeing a working wireless tower and also helps out a great mind of our time.

rw

how ya gonna get past the FCC?
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  #852  
Old 01-10-2012, 06:00 AM
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IE not touching the ground or any other objects.

there was a kid, I think from new york who is into tesla and he tried using a flat piece of tin like 4x4 or something like that in his attic with couple diodes to charge a capacitor.

when it was uninsulated he had very little response. when he insulated it with a coating the capacitor charged quite fast.
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Last edited by Kokomoj0; 01-10-2012 at 06:04 AM.
  #853  
Old 01-10-2012, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Kokomoj0 View Post
what causes me to scratch my head is if there are 2 resonant points one may be based on the length of the wire of the coil etc and the other may be based on the (length?) of the lumped capacitance etc.

At a glance I would think that could account for the 2 peak resonance?

I do not think that would have any impact on LMD but it may on speed?

You have to let go of seeing a coil as consisting of individual windings when thinking about these kinds of things. For example, the Joule-thief / SEC exciter circuits (with air core coils) work on frequencies in the order of 1 to may be 30 MHz, with wavelengths in the order of 10 to 300 meters, way more than the length of the used coils. So, these waves do not "see" the individual coil windings. They "see" the coil basically the same as an antenna consisting of a (meta) material in which the propagation speed of the wave is considerably slower than the propagation speed in air or any "real" material such as a copper tube.


As far as I can tell, in "real" media the propagation speed of longitudinal dielectric waves is always pi/2 times the speed of that of transverse waves, irrespective of the medium. So, if you make an antenna out of copper, you can calculate with this pi/2 ratio between the longitudinal and transverse propagation speeds.


The interesting thing is that for straight wire resonances, a 1/2 lambda longitudinal wavelength corresponds to 3/4 lambda transverse wavelength:

pi/2 * 1/2 = 0,785398163
multiply that by 4/3 and we get: 1,04719755

So, whenever one of the two waves is in resonance, the other one is almost completely supressed!

In other words: with straight wires, be it copper or the mantle of dielectric filled coax cable, you get this pi/2 ratio between propagation speeds and distinct resonance modes, whereby either one of the two wave modes is very dominant, because when one mode is in resonance and therefore amplifies itself as a standing wave, the other mode is supressing itself because it is almost completely out of phase.




Another important question is: does this pi/2 ratio also apply to coils?

In the "Oscillating Current Transformer" Eric talks about the importance of the width to height ratio of a coil:
Tuks DrippingPedia : The Oscillating Current Transformer

First of all, he says that the velocity of propation is 1 / sqrt( L_0 * C_0 ) {eq. 5}, whereby the distributed capacitance C is a function of the length to diameter (or height to diameter h/d) ratio, while the inductance L also depends on the coil height and diameter as well as on the number of turns. But the formula for the dependence of C and L on the h/d ratio is different, so by playing with the h/d ratio, you can play with the ratio between L and C.

In other words: the ratio of L/C is a function of h/d, a function the geometry of the coil. According to Eric, you get a minimum capacitance when the h/d ratio is equal to one.

Now the formula for the propagation speed of 1 / sqrt( L_0 * C_0 ) of course gives the propagation speed of the normal, transverse waves, which have both a magnetic and a dielectric component. The longitudinal dielectric wave, however, propagates without magnetic component and therefore primarily by means of space distributed capacitance.

So, I think the ratio of pi/2 between the propagation speeds does not apply to coils, except for coils with a certain h/d ratio.

So, now we have a new question: how do we calculate the ratio of the longitudinal vs. transverse propagation speeds in a coil??
  #854  
Old 01-10-2012, 04:14 PM
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how ya gonna get past the FCC?
It's a matter of working with the FCC/OET and receiving their approval for experimental scientific studies.

I'm currently working with the EPA/pesticide division regarding a plant bio regulator and its approval for sale in the states. Working with the government is all about jumping through all the right hoops.

rw
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:14 PM
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Now the formula for the propagation speed of 1 / sqrt( L_0 * C_0 ) of course gives the propagation speed of the normal, transverse waves, which have both a magnetic and a dielectric component. The longitudinal dielectric wave, however, propagates without magnetic component and therefore primarily by means of space distributed capacitance.

So, I think the ratio of pi/2 between the propagation speeds does not apply to coils, except for coils with a certain h/d ratio.

So, now we have a new question: how do we calculate the ratio of the longitudinal vs. transverse propagation speeds in a coil??
excellent questions indeed!
in going over Heavisides lectures with a finer comb I've come across his attempt at doing so and some equations that would relate to this. Of all the lectures I have of Heaviside he never finished going down that path or at least it wasn't published.

I'm fairly beyond schedule on work projects but I should have the relevant sections pulled together and will post them soon, the connections may not be obvious and I'll do my best to draw the line between them so it makes some sense.

I'll be honest that it wasn't till going thru Tesla's notes on high frequency work did the light go off and I recalled Heaviside's lectures that mathematically backed up Teslas notes.
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  #856  
Old 01-10-2012, 05:26 PM
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The longitudinal dielectric wave, however, propagates without magnetic component and therefore primarily by means of space distributed capacitance.
Watch out how you word things. The LMD wave does have a magnetic component, but it just so happens that the magnetic lines of force are oriented in the same direction as the dielectric lines of force instead of in quadrature as it is with the TEM wave.

Dave
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  #857  
Old 01-10-2012, 05:41 PM
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Watch out how you word things. The LMD wave does have a magnetic component, but it just so happens that the magnetic lines of force are oriented in the same direction as the dielectric lines of force instead of in quadrature as it is with the TEM wave.

Dave

It looks like we have a difference of opinion here. I may be wrong, of course, but as far as I know the magnetic component consists of a rotational movement of the aether. With a pure longitudinal dielectric wave you have no rotation of the aether and therefore no magnetic component.

The difference in propagation speed occurs because with the longitudinal wave the aether moves straight ahead, while for the TEM it has to take a detour of half a circle and thus has to travel a distance pi/2 as large, which is why it propagates with a speed pi/2 as less...

However, that does not mean that there is no longitudinal magneto dielectric wave. There is, and it is called the TM mode, for Transverse Magnetic, which also has a longitudinal electric field. That is the mode you can find in the textbooks Eric has referred to earlier, a mode that does have a magnetic component and therefore most likely also travels at c and not pi/2 times c. See my reply to Eric:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamare View Post
You are right in that these are not standard transverse E.M. waves aka "Hertzian waves", BUT they all are E.M. waves because they all have a magnetic component. I think the dielectric longitudinal wave does not have a magnetic component. In other words: it does not create rotational disturbances in the ether a.k.a. the magnetic field. At least they should be much smaller in magnitude.

<snip>

So, we are looking for a propagation mode without magnetic component, which is a different mode than a TM mode, since a TM mode still has a transverse magnetic component along with a longitudinal electric component, which eventually is why the TM mode will almost certainly still propagate at a speed of c, and not pi/2 times c.

It is interesting to look at the probes they are using with the TM mode (left part of fig 129):


It looks like they are also using a sleeve balun, only this one is placed at the outside of the wave guide, while the ground / reflector plane is at the feed point, at the point where your feed current activates your wave, which means eddy currents, etc. will be induced in the plane, which appears to be the mechanism to create the conditions for a magnetic component to propagate along the surface of the pipe.

I suspect that when I place the ground/reflector plane at a tip of a dipole, where there is no current in the propagation direction, that you can get rid of this magnetic component, at least to a much larger degree than with the feed used for the TM modes.


I think the mode we're after is a mode without magnetic component, which I think is actually very easy to excite with the proper probe, because the diameter of the pipe is one of the most important parameters in all these E.M. modes, because the conductor surface has to support the magnetic component, which is why only certain diameters work.

However, for the longitudinal dielectric mode, the diameter is not critical at all, just like in the acoustic world of Helmholtz. So, any diameter that is smaller than required for any E.M. mode to propagate should do.
So, we are about to find out whether or not a non-magnetic mode can propagate in a tube with a diameter less than the diameter required for all these electro-MAGNETIC modes that are described in the textbooks. I have chosen the diameter of my wave guide such that none of these modes can propagate. So, if we measure a standing wave with my antenna coming saturday, we are pretty sure that the mode my antenna uses is indeed a pure longitudinal, non-magnetic mode.

Last edited by lamare; 01-10-2012 at 06:25 PM. Reason: Mobile phone typos and some furhter
  #858  
Old 01-10-2012, 06:05 PM
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here this may help with the distinction. It's a clip from Volume 3 of Heaviside.
hmm the attachment seems to not be working....
text of the page 26.

26 ELECTROMAGNETIC THEORY. CH. IX,
to be underntood that the electric force is derived from thfe
potential in the eolotropic manner specified by
E=-(iVi+3V2 + '<=kv3)V. (2)
Ihe displacement is obtained by multiplying by c, as usual.
The result, as regards the displacement, is therefore the same
as if the charge were at rest, but the permittivity in the
direction of z both ways were reduced from c to k^-c. This
produces a lateral concentration of the displacement, with the
ultimate result that when u is increased to v, the displacement
is entirely in the equatorial plane, forming an impulsive plane
wave with circular magnetic force. In any case, the magnetic
force is the vector product of the velocity u and the displace-
ment D.
The question now to be considered is what occurs when u is
greater than v. Are the formula3 still valid ? We can see
immediately that some reservations are necessary, even
though no change of formula may be required. For k^ is
now negative ; and V, and also E and H are made imaginary
when
where s" = u'/v'^ - 1 = cosec^^ - 1 = cot^l?. (4)
This means that V is real inside the two cones to right and
left of the moving charge whose angles are 20, connected with
s2 by equation (4), but unreal in the intermediate region out-
side the cones. We must certainly reject the unreal V, because
this is a matter of physics ultimately, not of possible mathe-
matics. In Vol. II. were numerous formulae relating to waves
which had no existence when they assumed unreal meanings.
Certainly it is the same thing here.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg electromagnetict03heavuoft.jpg (14.9 KB, 21 views)
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  #859  
Old 01-10-2012, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamare View Post
It looks like we have a difference of opinion here. I mat be wrong, of course, bu as far as I know the magnetic component consists of a rotational movement of the aether. With a pure longitudinal dielectric wave you have no rotation of the aether and therefore no magnetic component. The difference in propagation speed occurs because with the longitudinal wavae theo aether moves straight ahead, while for the TEM it has to take a detour of half a circle and thus has to travel a distance pi/2 as large...
I am basing that statement off of the picture in Eric's book "Theory of Wireless Power"


I have only begun to experiment to verify the elementary principles in the past couple of years. There is still much to learn. I am standing on the shoulders of giants when I say that the LMD wave does have a magnetic component. Only rigorous experimentation can clear this up.

Dave

P.S. The LMD wave transmission line will light up an LED connected to a magnetic sensing coil (my personal magnetic detector) indicating magnetism in the vicinity of each coil. You can see a variation of this magnetic detection in the Borderland Science video: Tesla Transverse and Longitudinal Electric Waves
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  #860  
Old 01-10-2012, 06:42 PM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Originally Posted by Web000x View Post
I have only begun to experiment to verify the elementary principles in the past couple of years. There is still much to learn. I am standing on the shoulders of giants when I say that the LMD wave does have a magnetic component. Only rigorous experimentation can clear this up.

Dave
Yes, the LMD wave does have a magnetic component. That is the TM mode I described above, the mode you CAN find in the textbooks. A mode that propagates at c, as you can also find in the textbooks, including Heaviside's referred to by madhatter.

The pure longitudinal dielectric mode, LD, is a mode that propagates at pi/2 times c, which should not be confused with the LMD mode. It is a mode not caused by charges moving back and forth, because charges are some kind of localized TEM wave and therefore cannot ever travel faster than (local) c.

So, the LD mode is a current-less mode.

NO MOVEMENT OF CHARGE CARRIERS!

That is why we need to kill the magnetic component in my antenna, so we essentially get a continuous transient, whereby the charge carriers inside your wires (electrons) simply cannot keep up with the propagating fields and therefore you get very low or perhaps even zero losses.

I'm afraid even Eric's theory does not cover this charge-less, magnetic-less mode....
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:28 PM
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LM Vs. TM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamare View Post
Yes, the LMD wave does have a magnetic component. That is the TM mode I described above, the mode you CAN find in the textbooks. A mode that propagates at c, as you can also find in the textbooks, including Heaviside's referred to by madhatter.

The pure longitudinal dielectric mode, LD, is a mode that propagates at pi/2 times c, which should not be confused with the LMD mode. It is a mode not caused by charges moving back and forth, because charges are some kind of localized TEM wave and therefore cannot ever travel faster than (local) c.

So, the LD mode is a current-less mode.

NO MOVEMENT OF CHARGE CARRIERS!

That is why we need to kill the magnetic component in my antenna, so we essentially get a continuous transient, whereby the charge carriers inside your wires (electrons) simply cannot keep up with the propagating fields and therefore you get very low or perhaps even zero losses.

I'm afraid even Eric's theory does not cover this charge-less, magnetic-less mode....
A TM Wave has nothing to do with a LM Wave, or at least in an electrical circuit this is the case! Transverse Magnetic propagation involves an inductance L or a self-induction of the magnetic field (storage of magnetic energy) this being in series with the source of energy (lines of induction). Whereas the Longitudinal Magneto Wave involves an enductance M or mutual-induction of the magnetic field this being in parallel with the source of energy (lines of induction), the way it propagates isn't only 90 degrees spatially out of phase, it may propagate as a LINE or RAY as opposed to a LOOP from wire-to-wire. The LOOP action and potential RAY-like action of each differing induction may shed some light on this interesting debate. I think the inductance L APPEARS to slows down the propagation velocity of enductance M and so cannot be readily proven one way or the other. If you think of a transformer, its operation and the recent post by Mr. Dollard on self-induction and mutual-induction of ferrite, we have a new concept that is starting to emerge showing the divergence of the two inductions one as transfer of energy, the other as storage of energy, one seen as parallel and the other as series. The storage of LOOPS are done at the limiting velocity of c for L1 whereas the transfer of LINES to L2 via enductance M may be greater-than or equal-to c but the mutual core that they (L1 & L2) share builds up loops in reverse from the newly transferred energy of L2, opposing that of L1 and thus the standard transformer model can be seen here. So from input to output we only see a velocity equal-to or less-than c, but transfer between the two wires (L1 & L2) may be faster than c. The point being, the propagation velocities of the two inductions (L & M) may not be the same even while both are magnetic inductions. An interesting device to contemplate, is a transformer that isolates the individual self-inductions of L1 & L2 and only share a mutual-induction M directly between L1 & L2, thus only the transfer of energy can take place without any opposing self-inductions or reflection of the load, this could be a possible explanation for the Thane B Hinze Bi-Toroid transformer.

I wouldn't say that Mr. Dollard's theory doesn't cover this, although I can see why you say that. Mr. Dollard believes, like I have for a long time, that electrons are not a source of electrical energy, but the primary dissipators of electricity. They are the end-termini of the lines of Dielectric Induction and thus when terminating on a conducting surface these lines push the electron along the wire or at least agitate them into motion and the Drude Gas Model can explain from there. The biggest point he tries to make is that the real energy is outside the wire, thus minimal loss, and when in the wire a maximal loss caused by the movement of electrons, thus electrons are the enemy, the antagonist to the story of electricity. An analogy to this is the Edison DC Transmission System as opposed to the Tesla AC Transmission System.

The only way to get a PURE LD WAVE (with no TM residue) is to not have the lines of dielectric induction interact with a metallic surface. Or some how lockup all the electrons of the metallic media in which the lines of induction come into contact with. This may be how the Tesla Transformer works, by using mutual and self inductions and their differing axises of propagation with a complex metallic-dielectric structure to some how FREEZE-UP all the electrons from moving. This would then free or "fractionate" the dielectric field from the magnetic and thus the propagation velocity is now a minimum of c and a maximum of infinity dependent upon the secant of the angle of incidence, this may be the case for a pure LD Wave. This "velocity" may not actually be a velocity at all as Mr. Dollard has pointed out, new interpretation may need to be done to get an intelligible understanding of an LD Wave (or its cousins LMD & LM).

Just Because Mr. Dollard doesn't state exactly what everyone wants to hear doesn't make him or his theory wrong, personally the removal of mass was a godsend for me to hear, Ive had the same thoughts for a while now, and the new primary dimension of plank is of yet not developed to peak perfection where I believe you would find the answer to a magneticless propagation of electrical energy. Personally I am working on going through all the primary dimensions, secondary dimensions and tertiary dimensions with the various time functions to go along with them, in doing so I have found many interesting relationships that have yet to be talked about by Mr. Dollard or my self. I may in the future post some of the conclusions and insight I have gained but its quite troublesome to do so in an intelligible way without writing a book about it in the process.

The universe doesn't lift her skirt up to those who don't work hard and do their part in unraveling the mystery.

Garrett M
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Last edited by garrettm4; 01-12-2012 at 06:55 PM.
  #862  
Old 01-10-2012, 08:28 PM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garrettm4 View Post
Just Because Mr. Dollard doesn't state exactly what everyone wants to hear doesn't make him or his theory wrong, personally the removal of mass was a godsend for me to hear, Ive had the same thoughts for a while now, and the new primary dimension of plank is of yet not developed to peak perfection where I believe you would find the answer to a magneticless propagation of electrical energy.
I stated that I was afraid even Eric's theory does not cover this, NOT that I consider his theory to be wrong. It may need some extension and/or refinement, but that is totally different from being wrong.

However, I do think the dimension of the Planck fundamentally couples the magnetic dimension with the dielectric dimension, and I suspect that because of that it is insufficient to fully describe the LD mode.

Eric said the following himself a few days back:

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex View Post
It is generally considered that any wave must consist of a conjugate pair of energies, magnetic and dielectric let's say. Only then an interaction between time and space is possible. As I have shown recently it is through the union of a conjugate pair (L and C) that the dimension of time is produced. The propagation constant is then equal to:

(1) Negative Gamma Square

Having a pair of imaginary roots, plus j Gamma and minus j Gamma

It is however that the JJ Thompson Longitudinal Dielectric Motions cannot have a periodic solution, there is one energy only, dielectric. This needs to be resolved.
My reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamare View Post
In its very essence, all electro(-magnetic) phenomena are motions in the ether, a medium with fluid-like properties in terms of it's capability of sustaining the propagation of electro(-magnetic) waves. Since transverse waves cannot propagate trough a fluid-like medium and magnetism is a rotational component in the ether, all electro-magnetic propagation must consist of some kind of space-bound dynamic flowing structure, which is some kind of wave phenomenon with a distinct frequency f. So, there is a one to one relation between all the parameters related to the phenomena, such as spatial distributed impedance and other parameters of the medium, and that frequency with has a dimension "per time".

The propagation speed of such a "transverse spatial wave structure" has a maximum of c. Whereby c is not a Universal constant, but depends on the local parameters of the medium, which depend on things like the density and temperature of the medium.

So, with all electro-magnetic phenomena, we have a maximum local propagation speed c.


Now let's suppose what I posted above is true, that you can have "steady state" ether flow, electrostatic-only waves. Phenomena that propagate at a speed of pi/2 times local c. That is too fast a speed for electro-magnetic phenomena to keep up with!

So therefore, you have wave phenomena that sees no inductance, only capacitance at its resonance frequencies. This is frequency dependent, but the frequency is such that the electro-magnetic wave with the same frequency can hardly propagate, because it does not resonate. So, you get a standing electrostatic wave, and a tiny electro magnetic wave. So, the magnetic component is suppressed significantly, which is why you can ignore the inductance for the longitudinal dielectric wave, at least in the particular situation whereby any electro-magnetic modes are out of resonance.

Of course, this phenomenon also has a coupling to time trough it's frequency, but some parameters are different. Most strikingly, its propagation speed is pi/2 times local c, which relates trough the spatially distributed capacitance to spatial dimensions.
So, there seems to be a gap somewhere, either in my understanding of the phenomena at hand, or in Eric's work. Either way, it would be nice to have this issue resolved.
  #863  
Old 01-10-2012, 08:45 PM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Originally Posted by garrettm4 View Post
I wouldn't say that Mr. Dollard's theory doesn't cover this, although I can see why you say that. Mr. Dollard believes, like I have for a long time, that electrons are not a source of electrical energy, but the primary dissipators of electricity. They are the end-termini of the lines of Dielectric Induction and thus when terminating on a conducting surface these lines push the electron along the wire or at least agitate them into motion and the Drude Gas Model can explain from there. The biggest point he tries to make is that the real energy is outside the wire, thus minimal loss, and when in the wire a maximal loss caused by the movement of electrons, thus electrons are the enemy, the antagonist to the story of electricity. An analogy to this is the Edison DC Transmission System as opposed to the Tesla AC Transmission System.
I beleive the electron to be a converter of energy. It sucks up an inflow of dielectric energy and converts that into an outflow of electro-magnetic energy. Prof. Claus Turtur made an interesting point that there must be a circulation of energy in the medium. I quoted him in my earlier article:
Article:Free Electric Energy in Theory and Practice - PESWiki
http://www.wbabin.net/physics/turtur1e.pdf

Quote:
In the chapter "A circulation of energy of the electrostatic field" (pages 10-14) he makes a straightforward calculation of the energy density of the static electric field surrounding a point charge using nothing more than Coulombs law and the known propagation speed of the electric field, the speed of light, and shows that there must be some kind of energy circulation between the vacuum and charge carriers:

Quote:
If electrostatic fields propagate with the speed of light, they transport energy, because they have a certain energy density. It should be possible to trace this transport of energy if is really existing. That this is really the case can be seen even with a simple example regarding a point charge, as will be done on the following pages. When we trace this energy, we come to situation, which looks paradox at the very first glance, but the paradox can be dissolved, introducing a circulation of energy. This is also demonstrated on the following pages.

The first aspect of the mentioned paradox regards the emission of energy at all. If a point charge (for instance an elementary charge) exists since a given moment in time, it emits electric field and field’s energy from the time of its birth without any alteration of its mass. The volume of the space filled with this field increases permanently during time and with it the total energy of the field. But from where does this “new energy” originate? For the charged particle does not alter its mass (and thus its energy), the “new energy” can not originate from the particle itself. This means: The charged particle has to be permanently supplied with energy from somewhere. The situation is also possible for particles, which are in contact with nothing else but only with the vacuum. The consequence is obvious: The particle can be supplied with energy only from the vacuum. This sounds paradox, so it can be regarded as the first aspect of the mentioned paradox. But it is logically consequent, and so we will have to solve it later.

[...]

Important is the conclusion, which can be found with logical consequence:
On the one hand the vacuum (= the space) permanently supplies the charge with energy (first paradox aspect), which the charge (as the field source) converts into field energy and emits it in the shape of a field. On the other hand the vacuum (= the space) permanently takes energy away from the propagating field, this means, that space gets back its energy from field during the propagation of the field. This indicates that there should be some energy inside the “empty” space, which we now can understand as a part of the vacuum-energy. In section 3, we will understand this energy more detailed.

But even now, we can come to the statement:
During time, the field of every electric charge (field source) increases. Nevertheless the space (in the present work the expressions “space” and “vacuum” are use as synonyms) causes a permanent circulation of energy, supplying charges with energy and taking back this energy during the propagation of the fields. This is the circulation of energy, which gave the title for present section 2.2.

This leads us to a new aspect of vacuum-energy:
The circulating energy (of the electric field) is at least a part of the vacuum-energy. We found its existence and its conversion as well as its flow. On the basis of this understanding it should be possible to extract at least a part of this circulating energy from the vacuum – in section 4 a description is given of a possible method how to extract such energy from the vacuum.
So there we are. The electric field (the airflow in our fandoor analogy) is on the one hand powered by the vacuum and on the other hand it powers the vacuum. So, at least part of the energy in space / the vacuum, referred to with names as "Zero Point Energy" (ZPE), virtual particle flux, the Dirac sea, Orgone, etc. is not only fueled by the electric field, it is continuously converted back into an electric field by each and every charged particle in the universe, which makes the electric field a source of energy. The implications of that are staggering. It means that the law of conservation of energy does not apply to electrical systems, because they are not isolated. After all, Turtur shows without a shadow of a doubt that energy is being extracted from the active vacuum by each and every charged particle and thus every electrical system in existence in the Universe.
Both the "static" inflow and outflows are steady state flows of the ether in one shape or the other, whereby the magnetic component is a rotation, a vortex in the ether and the dielectric is either a steady state flow, or a longitudinal wave.

Whenever there is electro-magnetics involved, you either have some kind of self-contained vortex structure in the ether or transverse EM waves (also with a rotational movement of the ether) at the boundary of two different media, like the boundary of a metallic surface to air.
  #864  
Old 01-10-2012, 09:10 PM
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madhatter madhatter is offline
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Lamare have you read the journal paper of Prof. Karl Pearson and Miss Alice Lee?

It was referenced in Heavisides 3rd volume, I dug it up off Archive, it's a fascinating read on Hertz's work and experimental results that show waves of greater velocity then light.

here's some excerpts..
"(3.) The writers next deal with the type of waves propagated, their
velocities and their phases. The following general conclusions are
reached : —
(i) Three waves of electro-magnetic force may be considered as sent
out from the oscillator, and not merely two as supposed by Hertz.
These are ; —
(a) A wave of purely transverse electric force.
(b) A wave of electric force parallel to the axis, briefly termed the
v/ave of axial electric force.
(c) A wave of magnetic force.
The waves of axial electric and of magnetic force move outwards
with the same velocity, which is, however, a function of the distance
from the centre of the oscillator. The intensity of both forces for
points on the same sphere varies as the cosine of the latitude, the polar
axis being the axis of the oscillator.
The wave of transverse electric force is propagated with the same
velocity at all equal distances from the centre of the oscillator, but
this velocity differs from that of the two previous waves, the amplitude
is independent of the latitude, being constant over any sphere. The
velocity after the wave has reached a certain distance from the double
point is always greater than that of the waves of magnetic and axial
electric force. Its excess over the velocity of light tends to become
three times the excess of the velocity of the magnetic wave over the
velocity of light ; both the excesses decreasing asymptotically.
these undergo remarkable changes"
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:19 PM
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Humm Nice

Nice to have your input rw.

This could be a fine contribution toward Eric's independence and dissemination of Tesla/and Eric's own researches; These I like to refer to as The Researches of Eric P Dollard. I am not keen on what Eric will ultimately choose to do. These are certainly Prosperous options that should give a certain amount of security. It is well known that if you have only one financial backer things can end quite abruptly. One thing I see here as the predominant good is that this sort of openness would probably insure against the insurrection of a single private individual putting the monkey wrench into the system as we all know has happened so many times....
I hope we can come up with a system that could protect Eric from this type of disaster.

I think it would be highly valuable as well to have a structured study video course or something like. This could generate participation in these studies as well. I would propose this as necessary to demonstrate the proper display of the science measured correctly and application as to the desired results. Moreover these demonstrations would also depict the accurate dissemination of the masters studies. respectively.

My two cents

Zane.



Quote:
Originally Posted by everyidea View Post
We all know that the fossil fuel companies won't do it and our corporatized government sure has heck won't do it... so it's up to us, the little people, to stand up and make it happen. It's time to go back to our past for the benefit of our future and resurrect a functioning wireless transmitter, which in turn would fund Dollard.

We could create a consumer type of perative that builds geothermal powered Tesla wireless transmitters, having Dollard as the planner/overseer. As I see it, this is the purest/cleanest form of power generation and delivery. But, it's up for debate. In any case, building a wireless transmitter would be groundbreaking and show the world that Tesla was on the right track. It would also give people something tangible for their investment in the co-op. I could also see building a Tesla museum at the flagship tower, along with a Dollard workshop.

I've been in marketing for over 20 years now and know how to promote and raise financial support for a project. Right now, all I can donate is my time and talents as a marketer. I'm ready to create this cooperative that has total transparency in it's funding and capitol spending. I believe investors/donors need an organization with a goal for their generosity, this would fulfill that requirement.

All I need is a green light from Dollard that he'd build a tower if we where to raise the funding. His support for this venture would greatly increase the ability to raise funds. I'd be happy to channel the fund raising through a paypal account that he is involved with, due to his apprehension in dealing with people he does not know and past transgressions. But, I'd like total public transparency of the donations and their use.

If I receive Eric's blessing and favorable responses then I'll turn on the marketing machine and create the cooperative, buy the domain, build the website and start promoting the concept and fund raising. This is a ton of work, but I'm willing to do it, if it means seeing a working wireless tower and also helps out a great mind of our time.

rw
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  #866  
Old 01-10-2012, 09:41 PM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
Lamare have you read the journal paper of Prof. Karl Pearson and Miss Alice Lee?
No, haven't. It appears to be available here:
Philosophical transactions. Series A: Mathematical and physical sciences : Royal Society of London : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

A whopping 200+ Meg download...

Will see if I can extract a pdf with only that paper.
  #867  
Old 01-10-2012, 10:22 PM
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try these two, much smaller
http://www.archive.org/details/philtrans09173990
On the Vibrations in the Field Round a Theoretical Hertzian Oscillator : Pearson, K. : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive
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  #868  
Old 01-11-2012, 05:05 AM
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Daisy chain ideas....

Ok I being a truck driver must listen to radio driven adds all the time and heard Kim Kamando talking about many valuable things the other night. One had many possibilities relating to Eric and these sciences and just the whole "project as we all are participating at one level or another. Here is a link to the rocket hub. this sight is a funding source and they are advertising A science theme thing. Oh the last link for kick-starter is impressive as well foe a start-up

I will try to work on these things but don't be surprised if I can't handle the ball.

Zane


Quote:
Originally Posted by h2ocommuter View Post
Nice to have your input rw.

This could be a fine contribution toward Eric's independence and dissemination of Tesla/and Eric's own researches; These I like to refer to as The Researches of Eric P Dollard. I am not keen on what Eric will ultimately choose to do. These are certainly Prosperous options that should give a certain amount of security. It is well known that if you have only one financial backer things can end quite abruptly. One thing I see here as the predominant good is that this sort of openness would probably insure against the insurrection of a single private individual putting the monkey wrench into the system as we all know has happened so many times....
I hope we can come up with a system that could protect Eric from this type of disaster.

I think it would be highly valuable as well to have a structured study video course or something like. This could generate participation in these studies as well. I would propose this as necessary to demonstrate the proper display of the science measured correctly and application as to the desired results. Moreover these demonstrations would also depict the accurate dissemination of the masters studies. respectively.

My two cents

Zane.
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Last edited by h2ocommuter; 01-11-2012 at 05:17 AM.
  #869  
Old 01-12-2012, 04:47 AM
skaght skaght is offline
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Next attempt

Okay, so I'm still trying to get a disruptive discharge circuit that does something other than a standard tesla coil. This latest version, I simplified the input, using an ignition coil to charge the capacitor. I added the second magnetically quenched spark gap and my component values are in the ballpark to what Eric put on the forum. It still only has a single secondary coil. Like my last attempt, this circuit also seems to act like a normal tesla coil, although the spark is small and not that easy to evaluate. No fern-like discharge patterns. I'm wondering if you need two tesla coils for those effects...


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  #870  
Old 01-12-2012, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skaght View Post
Okay, so I'm still trying to get a disruptive discharge circuit that does something other than a standard tesla coil. This latest version, I simplified the input, using an ignition coil to charge the capacitor. I added the second magnetically quenched spark gap and my component values are in the ballpark to what Eric put on the forum. It still only has a single secondary coil. Like my last attempt, this circuit also seems to act like a normal tesla coil, although the spark is small and not that easy to evaluate. No fern-like discharge patterns. I'm wondering if you need two tesla coils for those effects...


Can you post a picture of your setup?

From what I understand, it won't work correctly unless your coils are geometrically correct. See "Theory of Wireless Power" by Dollard, "Introduction to Tesla Transformers", Dollard, and "Colorado Spring Notes" of Nikola Tesla. You MUST have an extra coil to get the "real" effect.

Dave
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