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  #1  
Old 07-18-2012, 02:17 AM
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Tesla Magnifying Transmitter/Eric Dollard Type Coils Compendium

This thread is for data and results derived from TMT/EPD/CRI type coils, including US Patent 1119732

Patent US1119732 - ELECTRICAL ENERGY - Google Patents

-----

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex
All equations here will work with everyone's coils. They have been tested experimentally and are known to work.















On this last page the values listed in table 3 are wrong. They need to be recalculated from the equations in the text.
-----

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex
The following is the corrected version of the equations given. Equations (1) and (2) still need to be substituted into equations (6), (7), and (9).







Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex
From Radiotron Designers Handbook





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Old 07-18-2012, 02:19 AM
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..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex
Engineering analysis of the Colorado Springs Tesla Magnifying Transformer

Preface: the following material and calculations are taken from the Tesla Colorado Springs Notebook. An index of important pages is given at the end.

1) The Colorado Transformer consists in part of a basic quarter wave resonant transformer, referred to in the notes as the primary-secondary structure. The primary circuit is of the balanced, open loop break, configuration. This break in the primary loop gives rise to steep transient waves. This in turn gives rise to a multitude of harmonic travelling waves upon the coiled windings which constitute the Tesla Transformer. This is discussed in “Condensed Intro to Tesla Transformers.” Like did Tesla, we will focus on the sinusoidal, single frequency, distributions.


2) Next is the extra coil. This coil here operates with a propagation constant less than an eighth of a wavelength. Therefore the coil is operating as a simple inductance coil, not as a distributed network. The distributed network capacity of this mode can be expressed as a definite terminal capacitance. Hence the inductance of this coil is adequately represented by its static inductance.

3) Finally is the capacity mast. The effective electrostatic capacity of this mast is given. To convert from C.G.S. “centimeters” first divide by the speed of light squared, in centimeters per second, then multiply by ten to the plus ninth. This gives Farads. It works out to 1.1 times C.G.S. gives picoFarads. How easy.

The capacity of the mast consists of two components, one is the self capacity to earth in per Farads, the other is the mutual elastivity K to the ionosphere in per Farads. The measured mast capacity is a resultant, the square root of the ratio of self capacity, C, to the mutual elastivity, K. The actual values of C and K are unknown. The square root of the product of C and K is the propagation constant. The smaller the value of this constant, the greater is the electro-static coupling to the ionosphere.

4) It should be noted that the earth connection at this location was very poor. It was not adequate for the system neutrals. This gives rise to stray mutual inductance between neutral connections. This also led to travelling waves on the two wire 1000 volt power line that powered the Tesla system. Standing waves in the distant generator windings shorted out these coils burning out the town’s generator station.

In conclusion, the Colorado Tesla Transformer is most basic. An extremely high electromotive force is established through the employment of a large lumped series resonant circuit. This series circuit consists of a static inductance coil, the extra coil, and a static capacitance, the capacity mast. This is a basic LC circuit.

This LC circuit is fed by a constant current resonant transformer as a source of low frequency alternating current energy. The operating frequency is near 45 Kilocycles.

5) The propagation constants and the transmission impedances can be derived from the basic physical dimensions of this system. It is fortunate that we have the “RadioTron Designers Handbook”, Tesla did not. He had no frequency counter, no scope, no W.W.V. time standard, Nothing! Think about this.

6) SECONDARY COIL DIMENSIONS AND CONSTANTS


Diameter: 15 meters
Height: 1 meter
Number of Turns: 17 numeric
Mean Length of Turn: 47 meters
Total Length of Turns: 800 meters
Luminal Wavelength: 3200 meters
Self Capacitance: 1500 picoFarad
Self Inductance: 10 milliHenry
Luminal Frequency: 94 Kc/sec
Free Space Frequency: 64 Kc/sec
Actual Frequency: 43 Kc/sec
Free Space Propagation: 68%
Actual Propagation: 46%
Transmission Impedance: 2500 Ohm
Dielectric Burden: 330 picoFarads

7) EXTRA COIL DIMENSIONS AND CONSTANTS
Diameter: 8.4 feet
Height: 8.0 feet
Number of Turns: 100 numeric
Mean Length of Turn: 8 meters
Total Length of Turns: 800 meters
Luminal Wavelength: 3200 meters
Self Capacitance: 112 picoFarad
Self Inductance: 25 milliHenry
Luminal Frequency: 94 Kc/sec
Free Space Frequency: 176 Kc/sec
Actual Frequency: 116 Kc/sec
Free Space Propagation: 187%
Actual Propagation: 123%
Transmission Impedance: 15 Kilo-Ohm
Dielectric Burden: 26 picoFarads

8) MAST CAPACITANCE EFFECTIVE VALUE:

Measured Capacitance is given approximately at 320 picoFarads

The self capacitance of the extra coil is given as 112 picoFarad.

The total capacitance is hence given,
Total End Capacity, 432 picoFarad

This end capacity is series resonant with a 25 milliHenry inductance coil. This gives rise to a propagation constant, (the resonant frequency) and to a transfer impedance.

9) The propagation constant, or frequency, is defined as the inverse of the quantity consisting of the square root of the inductance times the capacitance, this root then multiplied by two Pi. Hence cycles per second.

The product,
25 milliHenry times 432 picoFarad
Results in a frequency of
47 Kilo-cycles

10) The transfer impedance is given as the square root of the ratio of the inductance to the capacitance.

25 milliHenry divided by 432 picoFarad
Results in an impedance of
7600 Ohm

This represents the output impedance of the Tesla Magnifying Transformer.

11) The basic circuit is shown in figure 1:



In basic terms, a 45 Kc/sec 2500 Ohm source of alternating current energy energizes a large series resonant circuit consisting of an inductance coil and elevated capacity structure. At 45 Kilo-cycles per second, every ampere supplied to the extra coil gives rise to 7.6 Kilovolts at the elevated capacity terminal. The effects of higher harmonics and distributed constants can raise this potential by no more than 50% over the base 7.5 KV. Hereby, for a capacity potential of 1000 KV, the input current to the extra coil must be 132 amperes at 45 Kilocycles per second.

12) This derives the total KiloVolt-Ampere reactive activity of the extra coil in 1000 KV operation, hence, the total activity;

132 MegaVolt-Ampere

This is a substantial activity of 174 thousand horsepower, remembering that this is an average value, the peak value is unknown.

13) In conclusion, the Colorado Springs Tesla Magnification Transformer is a very simple system, no more than a giant series resonant circuit with an approximately sinusoidal waveform rendered asymmetrical by a moderate dampening constant. The extra coil is not operating as a transmission network of distributed constants, but only as a basic inductance coil. Hence the length of wire on the coil is somewhat immaterial. The mast capacitance swamps out the extra coil self capacitance, this suppressing transmission modes of higher harmonics.

This transformer is seen to be somewhat disappointing to the theorist. No fancy travelling wave interaction nor any stupendous harmonic conjunctions, only a Big Series Resonant Circuit. It can be surmised that the Colorado Springs Transformer was incapable of full mono-polar operation, due to the suppression of distributed constants. What is fortunate is that with the material hereby provided the Colorado Springs Tesla Transformer can be scaled down to any convenient size for experimentation. This setup is now quantified, and the mystics can remain silent.

73 DE N6KPH

Reference Index (From Colorado Springs Notes)
Page 43 & 58 Primary Circuit
Page 67 Primary Length
Page 203 Primary/Secondary Dimensions
Page 206 Secondary Frequency
Page 211 Secondary Inductance
Page 260 to 267 Capacity Mast
Page 318 Extra Coil Dimensions
Page 357 Extra Coil Ground Frequency
Page 359 Extra Coil Mast Frequency
Page 363 Extra Coil Free Frequency
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:31 AM
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For new extra coil wire length refer to July 2 2012 note






















Quote:
Originally Posted by Geometric_Algebra
Here's the clarifications on the factor (pi^2/4) and tips on coil design that Eric has provided me:

There should not be much left unanswered, it is all in the "Theory of Wireless Power" and "Impulses, Waves and Discharges." But all of this pre-supposes a working knowledge of radio frequency lines and antennae.

Velocity depends on aspect ratio. If Secondary ratio is 18%, velocity is luminal, this only at 18%. So make the coil 20% and the velocity is a bit faster than luminal. The reason, to compensate for the slowing caused by insulation.

The secondary is coupled to other coils and capacitance. This lowers the velocity greatly. Thus to compensate the coil wire is shortened by 2/pi=0.63662=63.7% to bring the frequency back up to the proper value.

As for the extra coil; for a coil aspect ratio of 100% the coil effective velocity is 187% that of luminal velocity (along the coil wire). This coil is burdened down by insulation and gradient rings as well as what little coupling Exists. Thus the coil Wire is lengthened to 157% velocity factor. This is to say, rather than calculating the extra coil on a velocity of 187% that of light along the coil wire to figure the quarter wave, we now instead, in order to compensate for the burden, use a velocity of 157% that of light along the coil wire to figure quarter wave. 157% is equal to pi/2.

Therefore, secondary 2/pi, extra coil pi/2.

(Longer Extra)/(Shorter Sec.) = (pi/2)/(2/pi)=pi^2/4=2.465

Where pi is a correction factor, not an intrinsic mathematical relation. But it may be that by using pi some "magic" resonance may take form. (Experiment and see).

Also important in the use of gradient rings at coil ends. These are like capacitors and keep losses low by not stressing insulation with flux concentrations. Quarter inch copper tubing fine. It must be slotted so as not to be a shorted turn! Connect end wire of coil to ring, it is a final turn.

Also, tuning a coupled extra and secondary coil is an effort for the master, not the novice thus all effort must go into the secondary coil and its primary coupled resonator, or primary coil-condenser structure. No connection must exist between coils, None! No test leads should contact coils, No Leads! Electro-static coupling or magnetic loop coupling to meters is all that is permissible. Extra coil must be as free as possible. Then it can really "take off." But tuning and loose coupling factors will be very difficult and resonance will be elusively sharp.

Where it is that the teflon coating on the wire is important for gradient control on wire, any and all insulation impairs resonance. It must actually be an "air" wound coil. This cannot be overly emphisized. The only proper way is to construct a coil such: cut two circular rings out of wood/plastic sheets. Drill eight holes equidistant in these rings to press fit coil support rods (broom sticks) press together rings and rods into former, notch rods to hold coil turns in place. Nothing can be more simple than this, and the losses and burdens are greatly minimized by the construction. All wood parts must be baked dry, varnished, and re-baked. Good Rod Material is lexan, glass Epoxy, Plexiglass, and Baked wood is o.k. The skiny rod is better than a fat rod. Hollow rods even better. Notches hold wires and varnish them in place.

Any old vacuum tube A.M. radio is a good thing to use here. But don't let a hot chassis kill you! Get an isolation transformer. Radio has an oscillator in it for making a test V.F.O. Also that big spider loop on back can be coupled to Tesla unit so then one can listen to radio to hear the resonant boost. A.M. car radios are electro-static so whip can be near gradient ring for pickup. (Loopsticks are magnetic).

Finally, a ground plane is a must. Ground wires greatly detune the system, so one foot maximum neutral to ground wire length. A 6 by 6 foot aluminum foil sandwich of wood and an aluminum slide between is the minimum area and connect to it. Run ground wires to earth off of four corners. Use four separate groundings like four different outlets, or bathroom/kitchen plumbing etc. Spread it out! (Surfaces) [image, not shown here, depicts grounding in four corners of table plate, and neutral coil connection in center of plate.]
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post189871

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geometric_Algebra
Rewritten notes from Eric on a technique for coil node detection.

June 23 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex
The extra coil raising the resonant frequency of the resonant transformer(Pri + Sec) is great. This is what I am looking for. This result means that the extra coil is exhibiting an inductive reactance, indicating its operation is a little beyond its quarter wave frequency. The shunt ring capacitor exists to tune this magnetic component out. Thereby derived is a condition of consonant resonance which both secondary and extra coils are in tune.

Also, do not use L.E.D. use small incandescent lamps like the #327, #44, or #42 number lamps. Use Ne2H lamps as the voltage probes, a neon wire lead lamp on the end of a stick. The coils need to be supplied with enough power to light a neon lamp along the coil. Also, the tiny incandescent lamp with an exploring coil is a good M.M.F. probe. With these the standing wave distribution can be studied on these coils.

In basic terms, if a transmission structure can support travelling and standing waves, a set of relations exist.

1) If the line is quarter wave resonant, the sending impedance is resistive, at the resonant frequency.

2) If the line is operated at a frequency of less than that of the quarter wave frequency, the sending end impedance is capacitive.

3) If the line is operated at a frequency higher than the quarter wave resonant frequency, the sending end of the line is inductive.

4) In order to establish a quarter wave resonance, this within an eighth wave up, or down, span of frequencies around this resonant frequency, two conditions must be met.

One is that the sending end impedance must be LESS than the characteristic impedance of the line.

Second is that the far end impedance must be greater than the characteristic impedance of the line. This is to say, the far end admittance must be less than the characteristic admittance of the line.

When a line is operated at an eighth wavelength it has the property of converting the far end impedance to a resistance equaling the magnitude of the far end impedance, this at the sending end of the line. Marconi used this in his flat top at KET Bolinas, and to a certain extent this may be happening in the Colorado Springs extra coil, but only if expressed in a luminal velocity base. Read Steinmetz, "Oscillations of the Compound Circuit", in "Impulses, Waves, and Discharges", very important info on the refraction and reflection of waves at the transition between two independent transmission structures (or coils).

June 27 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex
The secondary winding is the prime mover of this transformer. Here the system operating frequency is established , and then locked in place by a primary resonator. This in itself establishes a telluric transmission network, a basic resonant transformer with a mono-polar connection at the secondary neutral. Another transformer can be constructed, identical in every way except wound in an opposite direction to the first coil. Interlinking the neutrals of these two counter-wound transformers enables a one wire transmission between the two units. This is the basic telluric system. No more is needed than this.

The extra coil is employed in order to magnify the potential to much higher values than possible with only a secondary winding*. This however involves ratios of refractions and reflection that are difficult to calculate or even understand. Hence its complications are best avoided in basic telluric testing.

*This will increase receiving sensitivity, or "gain"

Two modes are possible for extra coil in relation with the secondary coil. Both involve quarter wave resonant rise, this the fundamental of resonant transformation. Its also known as constant potential to constant current transformation. A constant potential is a zero impedance (short circuit) a constant current is a zero admittance (open circuit). Departure from these zero values alters the coil distribution to something other than a quarter wave.

This quarter wave can exist in a distinct pair of manifestations. The first mode is when the quarter wave is distributed over the length of both extra and secondary windings as a whole, a pair of eighth waves let us say. This is the TANDEM mode. A multiplication in potential is derived hereby since the extra coil exhibits a higher transmission impedance thereby giving rise to a greater EMF between turns and thus a higher termination potential. All photos of my Bolinas and Integratron setups operated in this mode. It is the easy one to achieve.

The second mode of the extra coil and secondary coil connection involves two quarter wave distributions, one on each coil. This is not to be considered a half wave however. This mode is the CONCATENATED connection.It compounds the quarter wave resonant rise of the secondary coil with another quarter wave rise in the extra coil, hence a concatenated resonant rise. This is the holy grail of resonant transformer design and unheard of potentials may be gained in this manner. To derive this analytically is extremely difficult, it is an advance transmission line problem. It might not even be possible to calculate or even achieve this mode of resonance, but we are going to give it a try. Tesla dreamed of this mode but electrical knowledge was in its infancy in Tesla's Colorado years.



An excellent addendum to this is the John Miller Paper "Electrical Oscillations in Antennae and Induction Coils" provided with Eric Dollard's paper "Introduction to Dielectric and Magnetic Discharges in Electrical Windings". It can be seen here:

http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Eric_Dollard_...0remake%29.pdf
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Last edited by dR-Green; 07-27-2012 at 12:28 AM.
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Old 07-18-2012, 03:10 AM
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From the ARRL Antenna Book:



-----



Test Coil = 1 turn 1.5mm wire

F = 3670000 cycles/sec

Secondary Coil:
20 turns
Diameter = 20.7cm
Height = 4.08cm
Conductor length = 13.079 metres

Luminal frequency = 5730.4 kc
Free maximum frequency = 4126 kc - Magnification Factor = 63.70233
Rings = 3670 kc - Magnification Factor = 83.71159

Extra Coil:
126 turns
Diameter = 8.28cm
Height = 8.28cm
Conductor length = 32.271 metres

Luminal frequency = 2322.4 kc
Direct = 2694.8 kc - Magnification Factor = 57.07992
10pF = 2833.1 kc - Magnification Factor = 81.5891

Concatenated Coils:
First Peak Resonance: 3670 kc
Second Peak Resonance: 2340 kc















Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex
Consideration of Coil Self Capacitance
1) Extra Coil Diameter
8.25 cm

2) Capacitance factor from Radiotron table for a coil aspect ratio of 100%
.46 Numeric

3) Multiply this by the coil diameter
3.8 picofarads

4) This is the "free space" self capacitance of this extra coil. This means a true air wound coil.

Now to determine the actual working capacitance of this extra coil resulting from the coil form and stray lead parasitic capacitance.

1) The theoretical velocity factor from the Wireless Power Table for a coil with a 100% aspect ratio:
187% numeric

2) The actual measured velocity factor
124% numeric

3) Taking the ratio of the free space to actual measured velocity gives
1.51 numeric

Note, close to 1.54, pi/2

4) Velocity varies as the inverse of the square root of the capacitance
2.28 numeric

5) Multiplication of the free space capacitance by this squared factor
8.7 picofarads

6) This is the burdened coil capacitance resulting from the coil form and connecting leads.

Observe that the 45 degree knee or asymptote point is this derived value of capacitance. This effective coil capacitance is the square root of its self capacitance, C and its mutual elastance, K.

Dr Green #396 (II)

Considerations of the magnification factor as derived from the bandwidth of the resonance curve, this the half power, or 71% voltage points on the curve.

1) Determine the 71% points on the extra coil curve (for 10 pFd).

Lower Sideband Point
2821 Kilocycles/sec

Upper Sideband Point
2831 Kilocycles/sec

Hence the half power bandpass is 17 Kilocycles or 6%

2) Two factors are here derived. Factor d is the ratio of the bandwidth to the center frequency, 2830 Kc/sec.
0.006

Factor n is the inverse of factor d:
167

3) Here derived is the magnification factor of this extra coil,
n = 167 numeric

General Conclusions

This extra coil is now quantified as to its general electrical behavior:

v = 124% luminal velocity
C = 8.7 pico
Farad
n = x 167 magnification factor
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex
The inductance, characteristic impedance and resonant frequency of this extra coil is now developed.

1) The magnetic inductance of the extra coil by Wheeler's formula (Theory of Wireless Power) is
846 microHenry

2) The effective inductance for a cosine quarter wavelength current distribution is

by Steinmetz, two over Pi the total inductance,
539 microHenry

By Miller, one half the total inductance,
423 microHenry

3) The equivalent capacitance of the extra coil is given as
8.7 picoFarad

4) The effective capacitance for a sine quarter wave distribution is

by Steinmetz, two over Pi times C,
5.5 picoFarads

by Miller, eight over Pi squared times C,
7.1 picoFarads

4)The Characteristic coil impedance is defined as the square root of the ratio of inductance to capacitance

By Steinmetz
9.9 Kilo Ohm

by Miller
7.7 Kilo Ohm

5) The angular frequency is defined as the inverse of the square root of the product of inductance and capacitance

18 Kilo-radians per second
or
2860 Kilocycles/sec

This concludes the calculation of the important characteristics of the extra coil under study.
June 26 2012







NOTE: The 2340 kc Peak secondary reading was later found to be the extra coil being picked up by the other probe, NOT the secondary.

June 27 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex
In reviewing the Dr. Green material it can be seen that this extra coil is too large, or the wire is too long. Its resonant frequency, even with the lightest coupling, is far below that of the standardizing secondary frequency.

Extra Coil Direct: 2695 Kc/sec
Secondary, rings: 3670 Kc/sec
Frequency ratio: 72% lower
Wavelength ratio: 136% longer

Here seen is that a smaller coil is needed.
June 29 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex
Extra Coil

Dr Green;
I believe that another extra coil needs to be made for a higher frequency, that of your secondary, 3670. So an extra coil for 3700 with some terminal loading. The extra coil that you have now is too large/long and many turns would have to be removed, best to keep this one intact. Since now you can see the actual extra coil relations from the one you made, now it can be scaled to any frequency. Break, more to follow...
June 30 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex
Dr Green Extra Coil

3670 Luminal Wavelength
81.70 Meters

3670 Luminal Quarter Wave
20.4 Meters

Empirical Extra Coil Velocity Factor
124%

Extra Coil Wire Length
16.5 Meters

Wind your width equals height extra coil with 16.5 meters of 18 to 22 gauge transformer wire
July 2 2012

New extra coil:

Diameter = 8.28cm
Height = 8.28cm
64.25 Turns
Wire length = 16.47 metres 20 SWG (0.9mm)
Luminal frequency = 4550.8 kc
Free space frequency = 8509.996 kc

New extra coil wire length = λ/4/1.24
Where λ = c/F



July 26 2012

In trying to achieve a certain ratio between the Tandem mode and Concatenated mode frequencies, it has been found impossible to get the Tandem mode frequency above 1895 kc relative to 3670 kc;

As the extra coil terminal capacitance is reduced, condenser rings capacitance increased, the Tandem mode frequency is brought up to a maximum of about 1895 kc.

By continuing to reduce the terminal capacitance and increasing the rings capacitance, there comes a point that the Tandem mode frequency begins to go back down.

This appears to be the case when the extra coil terminal capacitance is too small, and the rings capacitance too big to be practicable, the effect appearing to be accompanied by a reduced voltage measured through the pickup probe.

This may be of particular interest when considering the fact that the old extra coil with 126 turns and 32.079 metres wire length Tandem mode frequency was 2340 kc, compared to the new extra coil of 64.25 turns and 16.47 metres wire length maximum measured Tandem frequency of 1895 kc; The Tandem frequency is LOWER with LESS "total" wire length:

Resonant frequency ratio with old extra coil was around 1.56
Resonant frequency ratios with new extra coil seems to be greater than 1.93

In general the Tandem mode now appears to be acting as double the wire length at approximately half the frequency compared to the Concatenated mode.

I'm also unable to get any more capacitance from the rings to be able to use even less extra coil terminal capacitance. The rings should be perfectly straight in order to get them as close as possible for purpose of this particular experiment, or bigger for more capacitance, but I don't think the coil is really usable in such a state. The 1895 kc maximum Tandem frequency seems to be the logical place to look first.
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Last edited by dR-Green; 10-20-2012 at 04:08 AM.
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Old 07-18-2012, 03:25 AM
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Very Nice!

I have been busy with other things, magamp in particular and haven't gotten to wind my 1.9MHz CRI-based-TMT frames that a friend built for me. I will be definitely using this thread as a starting guide rather than searching thru the multiple fallen Dollard threads for the info.

Thanks,

Dave
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Old 07-26-2012, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Web000x View Post
Very Nice!

I have been busy with other things, magamp in particular and haven't gotten to wind my 1.9MHz CRI-based-TMT frames that a friend built for me. I will be definitely using this thread as a starting guide rather than searching thru the multiple fallen Dollard threads for the info.

Thanks,

Dave
Updated
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Old 07-27-2012, 08:37 AM
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July 27 2012

Today the coils were tuned with the intention of having the first and second resonant peaks in a ratio equal to 2. The Tandem mode frequency should therefore be 1835 kc.

However the graphed results show a measured frequency of approximately 1832 kc, which is confirmed to be the resonant peak. This is possibly due to the condenser rings "settling down" after fine adjustment between the set up and the experiment, or movement in the extra coil terminal capacitance, which consists of a 330ml drink can with an additional 1.5 x 4 cm approx tinfoil leaf for fine adjustment.

Rings capacitance = 43pF
Extra coil terminal capacitance (to ground plane) = 7.6pF

The measured ratio is therefore approx 2.00327. The test will most likely be carried out again.

The secondary reading is not recorded in the 3670 kc peak test because there is hardly any reading to speak of. The "secondary" reading in the 1835 kc peak test is being picked up from the extra coil, not the secondary, therefore no magnification factor is given.





Spectrum analysis:

3670 kc Signal:

First peak: 3670 kc
Second peak: 7340 kc



1835 kc Signal:

First peak: 1835 kc
Second peak: 3670 kc
Third peak: 5505 kc
Fourth peak: 7340 kc



-----

July 28 2012

Free resonance test. The condenser rings arrangement has been removed, leaving one ring connected to the top end of the secondary. There is no extra coil terminal capacitance. The coil is set up as follows:



Considering both coils as one length of wire,

Secondary = 13.079 metres
Extra coil = 16.47 metres

Total = 29.549 metres

Full wavelength = 118.196 metres

Luminal frequency = 2536.401 kc

Measured frequency = 3455 kc

3455 / 2536.401 = 1.362...



Spectrum analysis:



The first and second peaks are seen to be in a ratio of 2, however taking the shown frequency of 9634 kc as an approximate value of the third peak,

9634 / 3459 = 2.785...
9634 / 6917 = 1.392...

-----

July 29 2012

The extra coil was set up as in the July 27 experiment and tested separately for resonance. The coil is disconnected from the secondary but otherwise not moved, with the secondary short circuited.

NOTE: The terminal can is not properly secured and has since been found to be an unreliable relation to the July 27 test. However, the two relative measurements that follow so far appear to be within reason for an approximation of the direct vs 10pF relations (to be confirmed at different frequencies). Terminal capacitance has been remeasured:

Extra coil terminal capacitance (to ground plane) = 8.7pF

Direct = 3253 kc
10pF = 4070 kc





In the 10pF spectrum analysis there can be seen some strange peak at around 7797 kc which goes away with different input signal frequencies.

-----

Extra coil is tuned to 3670 kc with direct connection to oscillator, ready for separate and concatenated testing tomorrow, with a (more reliable) terminal consisting of one big and one small connector clips attached to the 22mm copper tubing terminal support, moving one of which having the effect of varying the amount of exposed metal and therefore the capacitance. Initial opinion based on the 10pF input measured frequency is that the extra coil frequency might be a bit too low. Target for future test should be closer to 4550.8 kc with 10pF coupling.

Terminal capacitance = 6.1pF

Direct = 3670 kc
10pF = 4378 kc



10pF resonant at 4378 kc:



-----

July 30 2012

The condenser rings have insufficient capacitance with the extra coil tuned to 3670 kc. The lowest obtainable frequency in the concatenated mode is 3892 kc. The top ring will need to be straightened along the horizontal axis, though I'm unsure whether the difference will be enough to bring the frequency down to 3670 kc. If not then the condenser plates will have to be used.

Rings capacitance = 56.3pF

First Peak Resonance: 3892 kc
Second Peak Resonance: 1742.5 kc

3892 kc Signal:



Second harmonic: 7784 kc
Third peak: 8324 kc ??

1742.5 kc Signal:



Second harmonic: 3485 kc
Third harmonic: 5227.5 kc
Fourth harmonic: 6970 kc
Fifth harmonic: 8712.5 kc

-----

July 31 2012

The condenser rings were straightened out as much as possible.

Maximum rings capacitance = 63.65pF

Lowest concatenated mode frequency = 3842 kc
Tandem mode frequency = 1626 kc

With this arrangement the output is not very strong.

3842 kc = 36.9mV
1626 kc = 73.5mV
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Old 07-28-2012, 02:56 AM
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Great Work

Keep up the good work. Its sinking in. I found the answer to "why the connection between the extra/sec in this thread. Page three of the handwritten notes. Thanks for help.

Would you please describe the the spectrum analyzer setup. I have been really intrested in what they would look like. And now I know. Thanks,

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Old 07-28-2012, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake View Post
Keep up the good work. Its sinking in. I found the answer to "why the connection between the extra/sec in this thread. Page three of the handwritten notes. Thanks for help.

Would you please describe the the spectrum analyzer setup. I have been really intrested in what they would look like. And now I know. Thanks,

No problem

The spectrum analysis is just using the same pickups as for the voltage measurement. I'm using a USB oscilloscope (Pico ADC-200) using the meter display for each probe, with the probes across 430 ohm resistors with the 1N34 diode. So the software allows for multiple views, it's all coming from exactly the same source.
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Old 07-28-2012, 06:49 AM
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I am really impressed by the workmanship displayed here.
(and regret to say it looks better than mine...)
I am also a bit puzzled as to why on some points the Colorado Spring Notes are followed and on some other points deviated from.

Anyway, we now have a new unit for field intensity: μA/beercan

Keep up the good work!
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Old 07-29-2012, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernst View Post
I am really impressed by the workmanship displayed here.
(and regret to say it looks better than mine...)
I am also a bit puzzled as to why on some points the Colorado Spring Notes are followed and on some other points deviated from.

Anyway, we now have a new unit for field intensity: µA/beercan

Keep up the good work!
Thanks Ernst Although all the maths and what not is Eric's work. The coil calculations were experimental, now some of us have built and tested it, the results have been applied to the Colorado Springs setup, and now thanks to Eric it can be scaled to any size. The idea here is also to turn a TMT into a crystal radio receiver to receive the Telluric signal from a local radio station. I'm just working on finding out what I can with a small coil before I build a bigger one for this purpose.

This is all in the EPD threads but I started this one to keep all the coil data in one place. Eric enters the discussion on page 3 here then later is (was) posting as T-rex.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...dollard-3.html
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Old 07-31-2012, 05:45 AM
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July 31 2012

The condenser plates are now used.

Extra coil direct = 3670 kc
10pF = 4378 kc
Terminal capacitance = 6.1pF

Secondary with plates = 1070 kc
Plates capacitance = 169.2pF

First peak resonance: 3670 kc
Second peak resonance: 1051 kc

3670 = 10.5mV
1051 kc = 51.3mV (extra coil), 61mV (secondary)

Spectrum:







Tested separately, the secondary is resonant at 1070 kc:



Conclusion: An extra coil frequency of 3670 kc with direct connection is too high. Perhaps around 3670 kc with 10pF input...

-----

August 6 2012

Tentative tuning relations are now established.

Voltage and capacitance readings are not accurate and are for general reference only. All measured frequencies should be within around +/- 5 kc tolerance (namely the extra coil direct measurements with bigger terminal capacitance are most difficult to pinpoint) (at the general system frequency of 3670 kc). Percentages are relative to system F therefore the relations are theoretically scalable. This must be verified.





-----

August 7 2012

The same data but with the graph based around the tuning of the secondary. Chart Three includes the measured extra coil frequency percentage relative to the luminal frequency of the extra coil with a wire length of λ/4/1.24





-----

August 12 2012

Test to determine the approximate magnification factor of Extra Coil at different frequencies through use of various terminal capacities; as coil was used in previous test.

The Extra Coil is left in place and the secondary is disconnected from earth and short circuited. Using the normal Extra Coil testing method with direct connection and 10pF.

The data is integrated into the previous test results. The Magnification Factor (n) is a numeric value, not a percentage (for example, 20% on the vertical axis = Magnification Factor 20). Results are as follows:



-----

August 13 2012

Test to determine secondary coil magnification factor at different frequencies.

The secondary coil is tested alone. The test begins with the secondary tuned to 47% of F as that is the lowest frequency possible with the condenser rings and any lower would require the use of the condenser plates. It has already been established that the coil is not optimised when tuned to such low frequencies therefore those frequencies are not tested here.

The data is again integrated into the previous test results. The vertical axis represents the magnification factor as a numeric value, the horizontal axis represents the secondary tuning relative to F. The voltage reading follows the same arrangement. 40% vertical axis = 40mV.



-----

August 14 2012

A general idea of the secondary coil Magnification Factor is now established. As tested alone:

Free Maximum Frequency = 4126 kc
Magnification Factor = 63.70233

Condenser Rings = 3670 kc
Magnification Factor = 83.71159

Peak Magnification Factor Frequency = 2230 kc
Magnification Factor = 128.8150289

-----

August 15 2012

The existing extra coil frame was rewound with a wire length of 25.32 metres of 24 SWG for testing, with focus to be on frequency and magnification factor. Wire length = λ/4*1.24, or F/1.24.

-----

August 20 2012

New Extra Coil #2:

Wire length = λ/4*1.24

97.25 Turns
Diameter = 8.28cm
Height = 8.28cm
Conductor length = 25.323 metres 24 SWG

Luminal Frequency = 2959.677 kc
Direct = 3522 kc - Magnification Factor = 47.59459459
10pF = 3831 kc - 60.39728835

Direct:Luminal = 118.9%
10pF:Luminal = 129.4%





-----

Test to determine the magnification factor of the extra coil at different frequencies through use of terminal capacities.

Results are not 100% accurate but should be good enough for a general idea. The peak magnification factor will be more closely inspected at a later date.



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Old 07-31-2012, 02:58 PM
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Don't forget the primary

Placing the large flat primary on the setup drops the frequency. Increasing the capacitance on the primary decreases frequency.

With the large primary I can get the same output from pri/sec combo at night(1000watts), than I can during the day(10,000watts) with the test coil.

Love your continious work. I can't wait until the kids go back to school. I had a blast with them but summers almost over.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:54 AM
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Thanks Jake Yes good point about the primary and condenser. I haven't even started looking there yet. The focus has been the secondary to extra coil relations, I've just finished a lot of testing to that end. The hope is that the secondary frequency is what it is, whether the primary condenser is there or not. As long as the frequency is right then the primary can be tuned to that. Or at least that's the idea at the moment. [edit] The primary and secondary as a whole that is, relative to the extra coil frequency. I'm not too concerned with what the rings capacitance actually is because that will definitely be different on each setup so that's just for reference, plus the tuning is so sensitive I can't even connect the capacitance meter without moving the rings slightly so it can't be 100% accurate.

What do you mean by the 1kW and 10kW?

Bummer for the kids, worst time of the year for sure hehe
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:59 AM
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August 20 2012

Test to determine the resonance of the concatenated coils when they are free; no additional capacitance.

The new extra coil #2 is connected to the secondary for the first time. The condenser rings are removed but the ring on the top of the secondary left in place. The secondary probe is approx 25cm away on the same horizontal axis as the ring on the top of the secondary. The extra coil probe is approx 46cm above the extra coil.

Two resonant peaks are found.

F = 3670 kc

Peak #1 = 3023 kc
Ratio = 82.37%

Peak #2 = 4515 kc
Ratio = 123%





-----

August 22 2012

Tentative tuning relations for the "new extra coil #2" with a conductor length of λ/4*1.24 are now established. The extra coil frequency measurements with the given terminals are taken from the August 20 tests.







-----

September 5 2012

This test involves shorting the extra coil to measure the resulting frequency.

The measured output difference between secondary and extra coil pickups is in accordance with tandem mode measurements.

This data is taken from previous tests, the same setup is being used for this test.

Extra Coil Terminal = Terminal Block
F = 3670 kc
Tandem = 2180.7 kc
Secondary = 2370.8 kc
Extra Coil Direct = 3489.7 kc
Extra Coil 10pF = 3805.1 kc

Concatenated Mode output (pickup):
Secondary = 10mV
Extra Coil = 55.9mV

Tandem Mode output (pickup):
Secondary = 67.6mV
Extra Coil = 179.4mV

-----

Test 1:

Coil is tuned approximately as above, there is a slight deviation.

F = 3670 kc
Tandem = 2175 kc

The Extra Coil is shorted with approx 18cm length of wire. Only one resonant peak found.

Frequency = 2248 kc

Output (pickup):
Secondary = 66mV
Extra Coil = 163mV

-----

Test 2:

The same piece of wire is used this time as a vertical terminal capacitance.

Extra Coil Terminal = 18cm vertical wire
F = 3670 kc
Tandem = 2388 kc

Secondary frequency with extra coil disconnected, in place and free = 2917 kc
Secondary frequency with extra coil disconnected, in place and shorted = 2935 kc

Concatenated Mode output (pickup):
Secondary = 4.6mV
Extra Coil = 55mV

Tandem Mode output (pickup):
Secondary = 79mV
Extra Coil = 167mV

The wire used as terminal capacitance is used to short the extra coil.

Frequency = 2686 kc

Output (pickup):
Secondary = 79mV
Extra Coil = 187mV

-----

September 28 2012

Updated tuning data with Magnification Factor.

Pickup Distance:
Secondary = 22cm
Extra Coil = 28cm

Sec = Secondary
ECD = Extra Coil Direct
EC10pF = Extra Coil 10pF
C-EC-MF = Concatenated Mode Magnification Factor (Extra Coil Pickup)
T-EC-MF = Tandem Mode Magnification Factor (Extra Coil Pickup)











-----

September 28 2012

3670 kc Luminal Wavelength
81.687 Metres

3670 kc Luminal Quarter Wave
20.421 Metres

Empirical Extra Coil Velocity Factor (Direct Connection)
119%

Extra Coil Wire Length
24.308 Metres

-----

New extra coil #3:

Diameter = 8.28cm
Height = 8.28cm
93.25 Turns
Wire length = 24.256 Metres
Luminal frequency = 3089.819 kc
Free space frequency = 5777.961 kc

Measured Frequency:
Direct = 3676.7 kc
10pF = 3990.5 kc

Direct:luminal = 118.99%
10pF:luminal = 129.14%

Taking the ratio of the free space to actual measured velocity gives
1.5715 numeric (close to Pi/2)







Measurements:

2.5pF = 4030 kc
5pF = 3964 kc
10pF = 3887 kc
25pF = 3786 kc
50pF = 3737.5 kc

Spectrum Analysis:

Direct:



Harmonics:

332.2 kc
1602 kc
3676.7 kc (Fundamental)
5276 kc
7367 kc
8969 kc

10pF:



Harmonics:

3990.5 kc (Fundamental)
6019 kc
7992 kc

Notes:

The 10pF frequency in the frequency vs capacitance test is lower due to a longer input wire being used, as the different capacitors can't be suspended in mid-air, so the same length of input wire is used for all capacitance tests for relative consistency for the particular test.

Capacitors used for frequency vs capacitance test:

2.5pF = 4x series 10pF ceramic
5pF = 2x series 10pF ceramic
10pF = Ceramic
25pF = Vacuum (10kV)
50pF = Vacuum (15kV)

-----

October 2 2012

Extra Coils Review

Measurements are taken from the 10pF coupling tests.

Original Extra Coil:

Diameter = 8.28cm
Height = 8.28cm
Number Of Turns = 126
Conductor Length = 32.271 metres
Luminal Wavelength = 129.084 metres

Magnification Factor = 81.587

Free Space Propagation = 187%
Actual Propagation = 122%

Free Space Frequency = 4343.135 kc
Luminal Frequency = 2322.532 kc
Actual Frequency = 2833.1 kc

Self Capacitance = 3.8088pF
Effective Burdened Capacitance = 8.95pF
Effective Capacitance for sine quarter wave distribution:
By Steinmetz = 5.698pF
By Miller = 7.255pF

Self Inductance (Wheeler) = 892.297µH
Effective Inductance for cosine quarter wavelength current distribution:
By Steinmetz = 568.05µH
By Miller = 446.14µH

Characteristic Impedance:
By Steinmetz = 9984 Ohm
By Miller = 7841 Ohm

ω = 17576382.13 = 2797.368 kc

-----

New Extra Coil #2:

Based on λ/4*1.24

Diameter = 8.28cm
Height = 8.28cm
Number Of Turns = 97.25
Conductor Length = 25.323 metres
Luminal Wavelength = 101.292 metres

Magnification Factor = 60.397

Free Space Propagation = 187%
Actual Propagation = 129.4%

Free Space Frequency = 5534.611 kc
Luminal Frequency = 2959.685 kc
Actual Frequency = 3831 kc

Self Capacitance = 3.8088pF
Effective Burdened Capacitance = 7.949pF
Effective Capacitance for sine quarter wave distribution:
By Steinmetz = 5.06pF
By Miller = 6.44pF

Self Inductance (Wheeler) = 531.55µH
Effective Inductance for cosine quarter wavelength current distribution:
By Steinmetz = 338.39µH
By Miller = 265.77µH

Characteristic Impedance:
By Steinmetz = 8177 Ohm
By Miller = 6422 Ohm

ω = 24164446.87 = 3845.891 kc

-----

New Extra Coil #3:

Based on λ/4*1.19

Diameter = 8.28cm
Height = 8.28cm
Number Of Turns = 93.25
Conductor Length = 24.256 metres
Luminal Wavelength = 97.024 metres

Magnification Factor = 55.21

Free Space Propagation = 187%
Actual Propagation = 129.14%

Free Space Frequency = 5778.074 kc
Luminal Frequency = 3089.879 kc
Actual Frequency = 3990.5 kc

Self Capacitance = 3.8088pF
Effective Burdened Capacitance = 7.985pF
Effective Capacitance for sine quarter wave distribution:
By Steinmetz = 5.083pF
By Miller = 6.472pF

Self Inductance (Wheeler) = 488.72µH
Effective Inductance for cosine quarter wavelength current distribution:
By Steinmetz = 311.13µH
By Miller = 244.36µH

Characteristic Impedance:
By Steinmetz = 7823 Ohm
By Miller = 6144 Ohm

ω = 25144141.97 = 4001.814 kc

-----

October 3 2012

Secondary Coil Review

Free:

Diameter = 20.4cm
Height = 4.08cm
Number Of Turns = 20
Conductor Length = 13.079 metres
Luminal Wavelength = 52.316 metres

Magnification Factor = 63.7

Free Space Propagation = 102%
Actual Propagation = 72%

Free Space Frequency = 5845.024 kc
Luminal Frequency = 5730.416 kc
Actual Frequency = 4126 kc

Self Capacitance = 14.49pF
Effective Burdened Capacitance = 29.07pF
Effective Capacitance for sine quarter wave distribution:
By Steinmetz = 18.51pF
By Miller = 23.57pF

Self Inductance (Wheeler) = 125.94µH
Effective Inductance for cosine quarter wavelength current distribution:
By Steinmetz = 80.175µH
By Miller = 62.97µH

Characteristic Impedance:
By Steinmetz = 2081.089 Ohm
By Miller = 1634.484 Ohm

ω = 25956518.23 = 4131.108 kc

-----

Tuned:

Condenser rings capacitance measured at approx 11.8pF

Diameter = 20.4cm
Height = 4.08cm
Number Of Turns = 20
Conductor Length = 13.079 metres
Luminal Wavelength = 52.316 metres

Magnification Factor = 83.71159

Free Space Propagation = 102%
Actual Propagation = 64%

Free Space Frequency = 5845.024 kc
Luminal Frequency = 5730.416 kc
Actual Frequency = 3670 kc

Self Capacitance = 14.49pF
Effective Burdened Capacitance = 36.75pF
Effective Capacitance for sine quarter wave distribution:
By Steinmetz = 23.398pF
By Miller = 29.791pF

Self Inductance (Wheeler) = 125.94µH
Effective Inductance for cosine quarter wavelength current distribution:
By Steinmetz = 80.175µH
By Miller = 62.97µH

Characteristic Impedance:
By Steinmetz = 1851.09 Ohm
By Miller = 1453.84 Ohm

ω = 23087838.56 = 3674.543 kc

-----

October 17 2012

Test with New Extra Coil #3, Concatenated Resonance:

Extra coil has no terminal capacitance. Secondary is tuned via condenser plates for maximum (Concatenated) potential at 3670 kc. Output = approx 12mV.

Frequency sweep reveals that the actual peak is approx 3695 kc, output = approx 18mV.

Impossible to achieve this same output with any tuning of the condenser plates for the intended frequency of 3670 kc.
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:29 AM
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November 3 2012

Tuning data for the "New Extra Coil #3", wire length based on 119% direct connection velocity factor.











Notes:

It's impossible to tune the concatenated coils to F with a free extra coil (no terminal). A peak is found at a higher frequency, the secondary capacitance is increased, oscillator frequency reduced, but the measured output voltage slowly vanishes as it reaches F. It would seem that these coils want to work at a higher frequency, so tests will be done to that effect.

Differences in "New Extra Coil #3" measurements with the setup unchanged:

September 28 measurements:
Direct = 3676.7 kc
10pF = 3990.5 kc

November 3 measurements:
Direct = 3702 kc
10pF = 4014 kc
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Old 05-29-2013, 02:18 AM
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incredible work dr green

wow man, impressive records!

um i hate undermine all the work it took to get where you are, but from following your charts, im still not sure what dimensions and turns and decided frequency was optimal...

could you direct me to the best found evolution of established values (for your particular setup) ? perty please?

and is the capacitive coupling for tuning only? then attach it directly for "use" as the patent?

cause you were getting great resonant rise with 10pf but in different configurations, connected / not connected, etc
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Old 05-29-2013, 05:02 AM
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...also, im about to wind up ~THE MAGNIFIER~ i dont mind trying and re-trying, but if someone has answers it would be nice obviously to have advice....

...does the receiver need to be wound reverse like the pancake design?

if so, can the transmitter be wound CCW, so it will send better to the CW recievers i have built already?
or is it important to be CW for transmitter ?

i have heard that CW and CCW winding translates to electric coil vs magnetic (Les Brown, McGill University talk)
idk how accurate that is, but i wonder , here goes...
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mr.clean View Post
wow man, impressive records!

um i hate undermine all the work it took to get where you are, but from following your charts, im still not sure what dimensions and turns and decided frequency was optimal...

could you direct me to the best found evolution of established values (for your particular setup) ? perty please?

and is the capacitive coupling for tuning only? then attach it directly for "use" as the patent?

cause you were getting great resonant rise with 10pf but in different configurations, connected / not connected, etc
Hi Mr. Clean. Sorry for the delay, I was away when you posted and then I forgot about it. There is no optimal design found, it's all experimental. The only optimised design as far as a Magnifying Transmitter is concerned is Tesla's original design where the extra coil acts as a simple series inductor, which is not what Eric had in mind at all, so that can be scaled down according to Eric's instructions above. Everything else is a venture into the unknown.

The latest design is this

F = 3670 kc

(New) Secondary Coil:

Diameter = 24.34cm
Height = 3.65cm
Number Of Turns = 17
Conductor Length = 13 metres
Luminal Wavelength = 52 metres
Luminal Frequency = 5765.557 kc
Free Space Frequency = 5315.844 kc

Measured Frequency (Free) = 3961 kc
Free Space Propagation = 92.2%
Measured Propagation = 68.7%

Measured Frequency (Tuned) = 3670 kc
Free Space Propagation = 92.2%
Measured Propagation = 63.65%

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post217357

New Extra Coil #3:

Based on λ/4*1.19

Diameter = 8.28cm
Height = 8.28cm
93.25 Turns
Conductor Length = 24.256 Metres
Luminal Wavelength = 97.024 metres
Luminal Frequency = 3089.879 kc
Free Space Frequency = 5778.074 kc

Measured Frequency:
Direct = 3676.7 kc
10pF = 3990.5 kc

Free Space Propagation = 187%
Measured Propagation (10pF) = 129.14%
Measured Propagation (direct connection) = 118.99%

As you can see this extra coil design has 1.19 times the length of wire required when calculating from the standard wavelength and speed of light idea, because the propagation is 119% the velocity of light with direct connection, which makes the resulting frequency too high if you design from textbook guidelines. So the longer wire length is to bring the frequency of the extra coil down to match the design frequency without any additional tuning (terminal capacitance) as one of the experiments. λ/4*1.19 @ 119% propagation = F. But propagation velocity depends on coil geometry.

The capacitor coupling is for determining the coil characteristics rather than for active tuning, the lighter the coupling/burden the freer the extra coil is to resonate or take off and so the higher the measured frequency/propagation velocity. I was effectively experimenting with tuning it through taking these measured values and adjusting the wire length in order to achieve certain natural frequencies in the coils alone before connecting them together and any additional tuning etc. So not for active tuning but certainly indirect tuning via the info applied to design.

As far as I know it doesn't make any difference which end is CW and which is CCW. And it will still work even if both coils are wound the same direction, but I suppose there must be a reason why Tesla drew the diagrams that way, if I was building some then I would see no reason to go out of my way to make them the same direction. If I was building a set that is, if using random coils as test receivers then I wouldn't even consider what direction those coils are wound to have any bearing on the new construction.
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:19 AM
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mr.clean mr.clean is offline
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Originally Posted by dR-Green View Post
Hi Mr. Clean. Sorry for the delay, I was away when you posted and then I forgot about it. There is no optimal design found, it's all experimental. The only optimised design as far as a Magnifying Transmitter is concerned is Tesla's original design where the extra coil acts as a simple series inductor, which is not what Eric had in mind at all, so that can be scaled down according to Eric's instructions above. Everything else is a venture into the unknown.

The latest design is this

F = 3670 kc

(New) Secondary Coil:

Diameter = 24.34cm
Height = 3.65cm
Number Of Turns = 17
Conductor Length = 13 metres
Luminal Wavelength = 52 metres
Luminal Frequency = 5765.557 kc
Free Space Frequency = 5315.844 kc

Measured Frequency (Free) = 3961 kc
Free Space Propagation = 92.2%
Measured Propagation = 68.7%

Measured Frequency (Tuned) = 3670 kc
Free Space Propagation = 92.2%
Measured Propagation = 63.65%

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post217357

New Extra Coil #3:

Based on λ/4*1.19

Diameter = 8.28cm
Height = 8.28cm
93.25 Turns
Conductor Length = 24.256 Metres
Luminal Wavelength = 97.024 metres
Luminal Frequency = 3089.879 kc
Free Space Frequency = 5778.074 kc

Measured Frequency:
Direct = 3676.7 kc
10pF = 3990.5 kc

Free Space Propagation = 187%
Measured Propagation (10pF) = 129.14%
Measured Propagation (direct connection) = 118.99%

As you can see this extra coil design has 1.19 times the length of wire required when calculating from the standard wavelength and speed of light idea, because the propagation is 119% the velocity of light with direct connection, which makes the resulting frequency too high if you design from textbook guidelines. So the longer wire length is to bring the frequency of the extra coil down to match the design frequency without any additional tuning (terminal capacitance) as one of the experiments. λ/4*1.19 @ 119% propagation = F. But propagation velocity depends on coil geometry.

The capacitor coupling is for determining the coil characteristics rather than for active tuning, the lighter the coupling/burden the freer the extra coil is to resonate or take off and so the higher the measured frequency/propagation velocity. I was effectively experimenting with tuning it through taking these measured values and adjusting the wire length in order to achieve certain natural frequencies in the coils alone before connecting them together and any additional tuning etc. So not for active tuning but certainly indirect tuning via the info applied to design.

As far as I know it doesn't make any difference which end is CW and which is CCW. And it will still work even if both coils are wound the same direction, but I suppose there must be a reason why Tesla drew the diagrams that way, if I was building some then I would see no reason to go out of my way to make them the same direction. If I was building a set that is, if using random coils as test receivers then I wouldn't even consider what direction those coils are wound to have any bearing on the new construction.
thankyou so much for your response man, great work
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Old 03-27-2014, 05:27 AM
Ernst Ernst is offline
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A bit late-ish but better late than never, some say.

1 - Concerning the CW/CCW issue. This will become obvious when you look at what is happening in the coils. The secondary should be 1/4 wavelength, with one end grounded. This way you get a maximum voltage swing on the non-grounded end (together with a minimum current). The extra coil then has a maximum voltage swing on the lower end and the same on the other end, hence this is a 1/2 wavelength coil. Now when you consider the charge distribution in these coils during the oscillation, and of course the currents, you will see that the currents flow in opposite direction. Normally the coupling of the extra coil is kept low, so it does not make a lot of difference, but being a perfectionist you should wind them in opposite direction.

2 - In this entire thread I do not see much attention to the fact that since the extra coil is not in 1/4 wave resonance, its charge distribution is significantly different and, because of this, so is its capacitance.
Most Tesla-coil design calculations are based on 1/4 wavelength coils, with one end grounded. But the extra coil does not have a grounded end, it has 2 high voltage ends. And there for it can not possibly be in 1/4 wavelength resonance mode. Different calculations apply.

3 - Simply adding the coils capacitance to the top-load capacitance will give you very wrong numbers. When you add a sufficiently large top-load, the charge will get 'sucked up' in this top-load and not stay in the coil, so the coils capacitance matters little (in that case).

Other than that, this remains an interesting thread

Ernst.
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Old 03-28-2014, 12:37 AM
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Hello Ernst. I appreciate your comments, but some of it doesn't comply with what's observed on the bench in my Colorado Springs scale model. There is "minimum" voltage at the bottom of the extra coil relative to the top. But this "minimum" is the maximum of the secondary. For example, at the top of the secondary/bottom of extra coil I get <1mm spark, but at the top of the extra coil I get around 6mm spark. This is also evidenced by placing a neon bulb along the length of the coil, it gets progressively brighter towards the top.

According to Eric's analysis the extra coil isn't operating in 1/4 wave anyway, but I think all that's required to get a 1/4 wave distribution on a coil is an adequate impedance mismatch between each end of the coil, if a metal plate is used as a ground for example then the highest potential will be forced to the free end of the coil.

Anyway I'll be working on finding the optimum frequency of my setup because there's a couple of complications when it comes to scaling for a certain frequency and there's a certain margin of error that needs to be narrowed down, when that's done everything will be working with the exact same relationships as Tesla's coil so I'll be gathering some field intensity data to note the distribution over the coils.
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:32 AM
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Ok, I'll be reading your results here in the (near?) future.

Let me then just share my most expensive extra-coil lesson.
I use a number of coil design programs and usually Javatc gives pretty accurate results. Using these programs I design my coils, including the extra coil. The extra coil is the only one that I need to rebuild a couple of times just to get it resonating at the right frequency.
The most recent extra coil was 41 cm diameter and 159 cm high, its resonance frequency came out 35% high. Which is beyond the limit that I can correct by adding capacitance.

First observation: While measuring its resonance frequency I noticed that this changed when I put my hand near the top or bottom of the coil, but not so when I put my hand near the middle. My conclusion is that since my hand must change the capacitance of the coil (locally), the capacitance of the middle of the coil does not play a role in its resonance, while the capacitance of both ends do. This I can only explain by assuming 1/2 wave resonance with a nodal point in the middle.

Second observation: Adding a 31 cm sphere as top-load immediately on top of the coil, changes the resonance frequency as if I only added (about) 1 pF. The sphere's capacitance is obviously much larger than that (should be close to 34 pF) but somehow this is not added to the system. My conclusion is that the top of the coil has a certain capacitance and since it is 41 cm diameter this is relatively large compared to the sphere. By adding the sphere I add a little extra 'space' to hold the charge during oscillation, but as the diameter is smaller than that of the coil, electro-static effects greatly reduce the usefulness of this extra space.

Both of these points have taught me that I need to consider charge distribution in a coil, and basically that was the point I wanted to convey in my previous post here.

I am currently verifying if it is possible to split the extra coil into two 1/4 wave coils. I have no hard evidence, but I have a feeling that Tesla intended to do the same at Wardenclyffe. If it is possible, then the primary and secondary, together with half an extra could be located 37 m below the tower. The half extra coil would convert the high voltage of the secondary into low voltage/high current which is much safer. This could be conducted to the top of the tower where the other half of the extra converts this current back into high voltage....
Well, just a thought....

Good luck!

Ernst.
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:20 AM
Ernst Ernst is offline
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Forgot :

Quote:
Originally Posted by dR-Green
This is also evidenced by placing a neon bulb along the length of the coil, it gets progressively brighter towards the top.
If you continue raising the neon, it will progressively get darker again because the increasing distance to the top of the coil. To "measure" the electric field generated by the side of the coil, lets say 10 cm below the top, you should subtract the value measured 10 cm above the top in order to remove the effects caused by the HV at the top of the coil.

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Old 04-03-2014, 01:28 PM
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There is something in this picture that may (or may not) alter your view on your measuring-electric-charge-density-in-a-coil-with-a-neon-method.
It appears that high current regions light-up more than high voltage regions. Thinking of it, that actually matches what I have seen in some of my experiments.


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Old 04-03-2014, 10:37 PM
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Nodes

Nice pictures Ernst, I have done exactly the same in my home lab about 20 years ago, here is one of my diagrams(unfinished) that should clear up any misunderstanding. Regards Arto
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Old 04-04-2014, 02:49 AM
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Artoj,

I have copied part of your diagram in an attachment to this post.
In this diagram you say that there is a high current at the ends of the coil and a high voltage in the middle. If you look at the picture in my previous post you will see that the ends of the coil are unconnected. So if there is a high current, then where is that current going? (please have a look here, where the picture came from, for more info)
Your diagrams do not clear up misunderstandings, they add to it.

I have recently posted a video on youtube explaining Tesla's view on the 'skin effect' (Tesla science). I think that that gives a pretty good explanation for why the high current regions light up more than the high voltage regions.
Of course this all goes against modern science


Ernst.
Attached Images
File Type: png Screenshot from 2014-04-04 09:31:52.png (36.2 KB, 5 views)
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Old 04-04-2014, 12:59 PM
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Tesla Coil Conversations

Tesla Coil Conversations

by Arto Juhani Heino (c) 2014

Memories of Tesla and 1000 other coils

Arto and Fred standing in front of a Large Cylindrical Tesla Coil, in the workshop and home laboratory of Arto Heino:

Arto: "Stick your hand in at the base of that big Tesla coil and tell me if the voltage is big", he said while grinning wryly.
Fred: "No way man, I can see the high voltage at the top, which means I might die, because it is the current that kills", jumps back while he exclaims, being puzzled by his own instinctive understanding.
Arto: “Well said, how did you figure that out?”
Fred: “Just hanging around you, by watching how you avoid touching the primary and any part down at the base of the coil”

He looks around the workshop and sees lots of different balls sizes and some toroids, he can see that they attach to the top of the Tesla coil.

Fred: "Why have you got that ball on top?"
Arto: "To store the reactive charge into the dielectric around the ball while the dielectric component is reflected at the anti-node and will be transformed back to the magnetic component at the base which is reflected by the node, all this happens during each cycle at its natural frequency and is the due to it's standing wave resonant structure, which relates to the length of the wire being the quarter of the wave length of its natural frequency, while also adhering to the balance of two components the inductive which is the magnetic component and the capacitive which is the dielectric component at the same frequency,"
Arto: "To simplify they act as polar opposites both have reflections at the opposite node, Magnetic/Node, Dielectric/Anti-node, so simple no complicated explanation necessary. This sort of knowledge makes theoretical and mathematical people nervous."
Fred: "Wow that changes a my way of thinking, they never told me that at school"
Arto: "I understand, sometimes understanding something is not easy, you have to be able to fail and disappoint yourself to get past those prejudices"

Now they are standing in front of a bench with lots of coils, capacitors and power supplies:

Fred: "What’s with that other coil, there is no sparks or ball?"
Arto: "Oh that is a half-wave system, that doesn’t use a reactive transformation like the Tesla Coil. It just swaps between the Voltage/Current transform, but in a nodal resonant fashion, by the length of the wire being half the length of the wave length of its natural frequency."

Fred points to another fancy coil on the bench:

Fred: “That one their has a ball at either end, and a thick primary in the center.”
Arto: “That is another half wave system, but this one also has capacitive reactive exchanges at either end, it acts like two Tesla coils joined at the base.”

Fred walks over and flicks the switch that is labelled “LC circuit”.

Fred: "Then what’s this other one here, it has a Capacitor and Coil, but it sparks are small"
Arto: "That is similar to the Big Tesla Coil, but it only resonates between the reactive components not the nodal structure, the wire length only relates to the amount of turns and an increase in inductance"
Fred: "Oh so you are saying that resonance can be number of exchange devices"

Fred picks up a long cylindrical neon tube and walks over to the Tesla coil:

Fred: "Check out that Neon light when you bring it to the top of the coil"
Arto: "Yes, that is the high charge density around the top capacitance, it affects the neon inside the tube and makes it fluoresce, that’s why they call it a florescent tube"
Fred: "The light is not bright down here"
Arto: "That is because the alternating magnetic component does not affect the neon in the tube, and the dielectric charge density is low just like the voltage but having said that the current density is high"

Now they are standing in front of a industrial neon light fitting, using a multimeter:

Fred: "How come when I measure the small neon transformer here it only shows 120 volts"
Arto: "That’s the voltage just to maintain the florescent activity in the tube, the ignition circuit starts the florescence and is part of the same transformer, it just creates a inductive high voltage charge when the starter switches"

Quote "It is not hard to teach people to look but its takes a lifetime to educate those to see." - Arto Heino
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Old 04-05-2014, 01:10 AM
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dR-Green dR-Green is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernst View Post
Artoj,

I have copied part of your diagram in an attachment to this post.
In this diagram you say that there is a high current at the ends of the coil and a high voltage in the middle. If you look at the picture in my previous post you will see that the ends of the coil are unconnected. So if there is a high current, then where is that current going? (please have a look here, where the picture came from, for more info)
Your diagrams do not clear up misunderstandings, they add to it.

I have recently posted a video on youtube explaining Tesla's view on the 'skin effect' (Tesla science). I think that that gives a pretty good explanation for why the high current regions light up more than the high voltage regions.
Of course this all goes against modern science


Ernst.
That's a standard half wave distribution. The current doesn't necessarily have to "go" anywhere, reflections at the open end of the medium (wire in this case) send the wave back down from whence it came which sets up standing waves which is what basically allows for any kind of resonance to begin with. This is an excellent video explaining such things

AT&T Archives: Similiarities of Wave Behavior (Bonus Edition) - YouTube

These are the same distributions as in Arto's diagram drawn over the image you posted



To measure the phase of the current along the coil you can use an XY scope with one probe (ungrounded) connected to the source oscillator, and a single turn loop of wire connected to the other probe.

Also there are instructions for building an RF current probe from the ARRL Antenna Book posted above.
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Last edited by dR-Green; 04-05-2014 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 04-05-2014, 02:50 AM
Ernst Ernst is offline
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You should become a writer, Arto!


Ernst.
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