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  #361  
Old 11-28-2012, 01:54 PM
nickle989 nickle989 is offline
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Ether and its detection - papers -

http://scientificexploration.org/jou..._20_2_gift.pdf

http://blog.hasslberger.com/docs/Selleri_Ether.pdf

These papers maybe intersting and usefull to some on the subject at hand.

With luck to links will stay active. If not I can do the pdf attatchments.
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  #362  
Old 11-28-2012, 02:56 PM
7redorbs 7redorbs is offline
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Appeal to Sense

The following post is an appeal to the senses rather than to the "Academic virus" which plagues the mind of all men. From the Greeks to Newton to Einstein.

You are no different. You take fit for kings the delusions of madmen and glory in them. True geniuses like Eric are forgotten. I know the pain that is evoked by such thinking. As I have from a young boy fathomed some problems which are not dissimilar from the mechanical and mathematical problems involved in the aforementioned conceptualisations

I hope that some can see what is intended in this but short summary of my thoughts about Electrical Conductors, The Speed of light Constant and the possibilities that exist.

Make no mistake I may not be a trained man, but because I have not been schooled is not tantamount to not being educated my good friends, take heed in the great words of the savior of Nikola Tesla's - Mark Twain.





Technology For a New Future & Non Existing Electrons
revealed by tricky thinking about electrical transmission lines
and why metal periodic elements can carry electricity so fast.


What is it about the so-called moving electrons in an un-electrified wire that make their orbits carry another orbit we call electricity from point A to point B. The thing that carried it wasn't the motion of the scientist's so-called electron going in, but it was the perpetual motion of the pre-existing orbits in the un-electrified copper wire that carried the electrons mass charge at light speed to the other end of the wire. So, the electrical effect of transmission at light speed from A to point B was produced by other things inside the atoms pre-existing motion. So it is fair to say that it was not the just the motion velocity or amplitude of the electron orbit going in the wire, but the pre-existing motion inside of the wire atoms itself that determined the speed , whether it went at the speed of light, or something different.

In fact if it wasnt for the perpetual motion of those metals electrons inside each of the metal conductors atoms, it would not be a conductor.

As you can see it was not unfair of me to describe the so-called electrons using a function of motion, because without the motion the atomic functions, then all chemical reactions could not exist or occur. That is why it is always alright to determine each atom by it's motion instead of it's atomic number and mass, because motion has something to do with the way it carries it's properties, and it's properties aren't solely accounting for the motion it experiences. This is proof enough that the electron is an effect of two other causes. One factor is the wire's positive and negative charges in it's atoms orbits perpetual motion, and the other factor is the negative only so-called electron charge that is pushed in. As you can see the electricity is not balanced because the wire consisting of two charges in it's atoms are provided only one so-called negative electron south pole charge. So as you can see, the scientists and engineers failed to provide the 4th pole in the input of the electron in the wire, and so the atoms were unbalanced to what went in, and pushed it out the other end. But if an enterprising man were to build a machine where he had the extra pole, then his motor and generator set would continue to turn like the atoms positive and negative charges do around eachother in the north and south pole individual magnet streams. And then the electrical wire would be the same as the the electricity put in it, and there would be nothing un balanced about it. Then the motor generator would be like the alternating current transmission line, except it would pull in the magnets between the low pressure points directly into it's drive before it has put any of those magnets in the transmission line, so instead of aiding the length of transmission of electricity by sucking magnets into the transmission, this generator itself sucks in the magnets and aids itself instead of it's amplification of transmission by alternating current kind.

People of all kinds should be able to unite regardless of party or politics.


Best Wishes,
Adam
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  #363  
Old 11-28-2012, 02:58 PM
7redorbs 7redorbs is offline
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Appeal to Sense part 2

REGARDING THE RIGIDITY OF MATHS - SCIENCE & CIVILISATION

I like the word rigid when it is trying to describe something that can be understood
but when it is used for new science, it is wrong every time
there is nothing rigid about a new conceptualisation, because it changes the way the maths would work about new things that weren't noticed, known, or calculated in the maths before.

so, because a new piece of information that was not calculated, or considered important in the initial maths is newly presented

and so the rigidity of the current civilisations maths is really a true reflection of the consciousness and limitation of it in their ideas , models and conceptualisations, and the available information that really determined what they used in the math descriptions.

the maths, as the fundamental description, the condensed logical basis of any idea, indicates the conceptually broken ideas
of the concept it is supposed to describe, and without the maths, we would not know we were right in our new ideas of concept! So do not shake your fist at maths. It reveals every idiocy you have noted about it in your concepts of consciousness!

first it is right to use maths for a way to describe a concept, for clarity

second it is right to use maths so we can see when we have lost the conceptual way , and when there is a new thing discovered and then made into a concept, the old maths without the calculation shows why the law or tent of science was wrong, and the new conceptualisation or parts of previously missing pieces of information can be added to the new maths, for a new law. One that is more reflective of the science.

And then that new mathematical law, that was derived purely from the concept of the mode of mans consciousness and idea - becomes the new mathematics, a description of the greatest and largest consciousness idea. So the idea and it's size, is reflective of the cosciousness and the information available to it that modeled it. And the maths merely describes that, until a new model of consciousness comes along with adds a new piece of information that effects the math in a way the previous description of the math failed to show.

So the maths is a fundamental description of conceptualisations from the conscious mind. The math can only describe the entirity of any conceptualisation such as The Greek's theory of objects finding their natural place, or Newtons theory of gravity, or Einsteins theory of Relativity, or Feynmans theory of Quantum Electro Dynamics. Each new mathematics, with new definitions, are defined by new conceptualisations of how something is working by the conscious mind, and, then the old maths reveals what was not being described by simply existing and being looked upon.

The conscious mind can see that the maths is not taking into concern the other force that was previously ignored, or not understood, and when it is understood, then it can be defined with the new mathematics.

This keeps on going, nobody really knows how it works. But they keep on describing it with what they have as a concept. Then somebody turns it into a mathematical equation. And then all the small minds believe and nod at the small equation determining small and limited things, of limited use, importance and reflection by the inferred assumptions of the conceptualisation of which it is built upon - until that is, a new, larger conceptualisation, with new planets, or new orbits, or new inventive experiments which show additional factors in the concept played a part to the conclusion of operation. Each new information results in a new consciousness of understanding, that can put the factors together that result in the observation of the function of the universe and it's currents. This consciousness, this "AHA" or pattern in the mind is then able to tell the mathematicians what it was he saw, and how that thing or force effects the operation and function in ways that were not previously thought to.

And then that mans consciousness is written down in the strict limitation of the new force he gave, until another conceputlization comes, and then another maths. And so on.

And that is how our civilisation works in my mind. slightly rushed i have so little time as of late!

And that is all I have to say about it.


My regards to Eric and all others that have patience, humble first teacher second. I suppose my point is this sort of thing is not beyond the understanding of man, or his comprehension. But it is something that many hold in ignorance, and I have had the time to reflect on and notice it. It is my hope that others might see the importance of such things,

A
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  #364  
Old 11-28-2012, 08:58 PM
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  #365  
Old 11-28-2012, 09:08 PM
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  #366  
Old 11-29-2012, 12:41 AM
David G Dawson David G Dawson is offline
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Cosmic Ray Detector (CRD)

Eric,
Many thanks for all the information on the CRD using the 0A4G and Photocells and will put that all into practice shortly.
RCA have many Gas and Vacuum PhotoCells and am fortunate in having many.

http://www.tubebooks.org/Books/Atwoo...Phototubes.pdf

Don't have the 930 (window 0.6") but do have 868/921/923/927 and the closest here would be the two I have just purchased, the 923s (0.4") where the window area is slightly smaller.
868s which are an older style have the largest window at 1 sq inch.

This data is also most helpful with regard to TH Moray and we are now looking at Quartz Plate Oscillators as the next step in development of his system.
Moray presented a speech at a College in the US and gave away some more detail of his device:

Thomas Henry Moray: Speech at Valley State College, Northridge CA

From another source there are indications of instability in his system where the Tubes had to be perfect in many ways as they simply would not work. However, my firm belief is that these same similar vintage Tube products are available today where the manufacturing processes had to be finely tuned else you terminated.

My job is to find out which ones in particular suit the various stages required - Oscillators, frequency downconverters and current amplifiers.

I had discounted 'secondary emission' as not being required as being a function of thermionics but your notes earlier show that this is also a needed part of a 'cold cathode' environment.
Appreciate all your assistance here.

Going to fire up the CSI (Crystal Set Initiative) with the Tube pulser and stand back.
Will make some oscilloscope pics to show the pulse form near the NET and whatever else may manifest.

Smokey
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  #367  
Old 11-29-2012, 04:39 AM
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Thank you again Eric for the time in putting the schematics out.

looks similar to a hard tube pulsar and bootstrap circuit. what are thoughts on using the MIT Glasoe Lebacqz pulse generator book for reference?
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  #368  
Old 11-29-2012, 05:38 AM
Danny B Danny B is offline
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Note to Eric. I sent $ 200 about a week ago. Was wondering if it made it to you. I was hoping to drop by and talk. Ash knows me. Tom Childs too.
Dan
wd_breeden at yahoo dot com
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  #369  
Old 11-29-2012, 09:25 AM
garrettm4 garrettm4 is offline
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Guillemin Communication Networks Vol. 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by dR-Green View Post
Is there any chance you could scan the Introduction that Eric mentioned? I thought I saw it posted before but I couldn't find it earlier. Just managed to track down Vol 1 and 2 so I ordered them both before they disappeared but they will probably take ages to get here, so I would appreciate a scan in the meantime if that part isn't too big. Thanks
EA Guillemin - Communication Networks Vol 2 (up to pg 135), 1935

I've got all the way to chapter III scanned in (+130pgs), will upload in the morning. In the mean time take a glance at some excerpts below:

Quote:
Make Your Own Tesla Telluric Transmission System

A good coil to use is the flat spiral shown on the "Tesla Longitudinal Electricity" video. It's on the 160 meter HAM band. Remember that you must have a government license to transmit R.F. energy.

The "primary" coil is the magnetizing coil. It connects with a constant potential, thus the few turns the better, one is best. Surface area is equal on all windings and also equal to the surface area on the condenser. Basically all component coils and the condenser should be the same weight. Max magneto motive force (m.m.f.) is what we want here in the primary. The "extra" coil is the constant current, maximum potential is what we want here, on the sphere, sphere capacity small.

It is important to note these coils are no longer to be thought of as just reactance coils, now they are transmission lines, and operate by the laws of transmission lines.

Hence given is the constant potential primary, a lumped LC circuit of very large b to a ratio (a is the power factor and b is the induction factor- see Heaviside equation), also there is the constant current extra coil, a distributed transmission structure in the form of a coil. Copper weight is the same. Also note b/a is the magnification factor of the circuit.

Hereby, the "secondary coil" is a transmission structure connecting the constant current extra coil to the constant potential primary coil. Hence the "Secondary coil" has an impedance and is a quarter wave resonant so as to match the constant current coil to the constant potential coil. That is the radio engineer’s description of a Tesla Magnifying Transmitter. No new theories or mystical unknowns, a basic transmission line calculation only. Simple. But, you better have an A.M. broadcast station ground for this system to operate.

So let's use an A.M. station as an example. 1600 on your A.M. dial. It has a quarter-wave tower, a star ground plane consisting of 120 radial wires each a quarter wave long. A matching unit connects this to a 5 kW transmitter, the "alternator" of 1.6 megacycles AC.

Now lets shorten the tower, a "loading coil" must now go in series and resonate with the shortened tower. The ground current has increased. We keep doing this, shorter tower, bigger coil. Finally no tower, giant coil, high ground current. The coil is now resonant to it's own internal electro-static capacity. The price to pay for the high ground current is an extreme potential, e, at the open end of the coil. This is why the "mushroom" hood, or just a sphere. This extreme potential energizes the Tesla "Ray" Tube for atomic work, not radio work. The ground end of out "Loading Coil" is the output NOT the mushroom cap. No one gets this. So we have converted 1600 on your AM dial to a Tesla Telluric Broadcast. No hidden secrets, no profound mysteries, just simple A.C. Ohms Law and a HAM radio license. "Theory of Wireless Power" gives all the coil calculations for impedance and propagation time. But the "tables" have errors. The basic formula is ok. "Condensed Intro to Tesla Transformer" gives a more specific theoretical description of the Tesla Transmission structures, including impulse modes. This paper is more for the radio engineer. Tesla gives a complete description, with photos and calculations, of his system in "Colorado Springs Notes." Also the unit at my RCA laboratory is on the cover of "Condensed Intro to Tesla Transformers." No shortage of experimentally confirmed information on this topic, even by Tesla himself.


(Note, big pictures were required to make legible all the sub/super scripts used in the above expressions)

(Possibly Useless & Repetitive) Notes:

[1a] You want the Primary coil to act as an EVEN harmonic [nλ/4 (n=0,2,4,ect)], (say a "half loop" or half-wave) this is to create a constant VOLTAGE condition, as Mr. Dollard has been saying for quite some time and as hinted to by Guillemin in the above excerpt (orange highlighting at the very end). I need to look up Boucherot for any available papers regarding this topic. But, it seems a parallel resonant LC tank for the primary (I assume the primary as a lumped circuit, not distributed) acts as an "open" circuit and thus an almost infinite resistance to the signal source at resonance (this is why you would want an adjustable capacitor on primary), therefore aiding in constructing the "constant voltage" condition, my quick... and probably wrong guess here.

[1b] You want the Extra coil to act as an ODD harmonic [nλ/4 (n=1,3,5,ect)], this is to create a constant CURRENT condition...

[1c] The Secondary joins these two distinct circuit conditions together. The exact details for which I am unable to provide right now, I will need to study Guillemin's book a little further... but probably an odd harmonic.

[2] Interesting Videos to Watch:

Bell Labs Wave Machine: Matched Impedance | MIT Video

Bell Labs Wave Machine: Standing Waves | MIT Video

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DovunOxlY1k


Adios,
Garrett M
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  #370  
Old 11-29-2012, 09:58 AM
David G Dawson David G Dawson is offline
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Guillemin Theory & Moray

Guillemin Theory:
Somewhat disappointed in what was being disclosed here but simply a means by which a pulse shape can be theorised to what would be ideally required for pulsing purposes.

Quote from MIT Radiation-Lab-Series-V5-Pulse-Generators:

To recapitulate, the Guillemin theory provides a means of designing
pulse-forming networks that duplicate accurately the pulse shapes normally
required on a resistance load. It is then possible to compute the
actual pulse shape produced by the t heretical network and, by judicious
changes in some of the parameters, to approximate even more closely
the desired pulse shape. END

I had just downloaded JL Naudin's LMD/TEM test which is a replication of Eric's BSRF (Borderland Sciences Research Foundation) video and guessed that was what Guillemin would be referring to, the LMD side but not so, it's all TEM but probably should expect that as we are dealing with EM here in pulsing Thyratrons for Radar and not 'Tesla's Radiant Energy'.

I am building on what I feel is required to replicate Moray and the LMD string here of L & C is an indication of what may be required.
What I still do not understand is JL Naudin's strange voltages recorded between each stage which does not follow a logical pattern.

The L.M.D./T.E.M.Test

Free Electrons Pump v1.0 by Jean-Louis Naudin

Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump v1.0 by Jean-Louis Naudin

Most of the references here are to a Mr Eric Dollard by the way.

The last here is 'Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump' which I have built and probably the first that would lead me here to the CSI.
Best thing about this was the 'one-wire electricity' experiment which shows that the wire, small as it was, was simply acting as a waveguide and so too as Tesla's Hairpin.
Moray used 30 awg wire and strongly suggests much the same environment as the experiments above.

Smokey
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  #371  
Old 11-29-2012, 04:08 PM
nickle989 nickle989 is offline
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coil winding wire

Hi Eric, in one of your talks you had mentioned the dimentional ratio of rectangular winding wire .. 3 wide 1 height .. something like that as round wire was not as good ... what is that ratio? ... thanks.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:41 PM
garrettm4 garrettm4 is offline
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Guillemin Line / Pulse Forming Networks

Quote:
Originally Posted by David G Dawson View Post
Guillemin Theory:
Somewhat disappointed in what was being disclosed here but simply a means by which a pulse shape can be theorised to what would be ideally required for pulsing purposes.

I had just downloaded JL Naudin's LMD/TEM test which is a replication of Eric's BSRF (Borderland Sciences Research Foundation) video and guessed that was what Guillemin would be referring to, the LMD side but not so, it's all TEM but probably should expect that as we are dealing with EM here in pulsing Thyratrons for Radar and not 'Tesla's Radiant Energy'.

I am building on what I feel is required to replicate Moray and the LMD string here of L & C is an indication of what may be required.
What I still do not understand is JL Naudin's strange voltages recorded between each stage which does not follow a logical pattern.

Smokey
Smokey,

I think you have missed the point of the Guillemin Line, or Pulse Forming Network. There are over 5 different configurations, A, B, C, D, E (E, not shown in Rad Lab Vol 5) & F, of the Guillemin Line, separated into "voltage-fed" and "current-fed" types. There are even more types when examining the whole field of Pulse Forming Networks. Coaxial cable can even be used as a PFN, sometimes called a "charge line", "helical resonators" (i.e. a coil inside a pipe), and other distributed or lumped networks made up of multiple "meshes" or repeating structures.

PFN meshes can be constructed for Transverse modes of propagation (L & C, self-interacting near-fields) or Longitudinal modes of propagation (M & K, mutual near-fields). That is, a PFN can be a TEM to LMD transformation impedance/admittance or vice versa, which is what the Tesla Transformer's basic operation is. The PFN's listed in Guillemin's original 1949 patent (US2461321) and the MIT Rad Lab Vol 5 (pgs 175-224) are a mixture of the two types. Mr. Dollard says the Guillemin Type-A PFN is something to look into. This being a voltage-fed two-terminal network, however, the Type-C current-fed PFN is also a two-terminal network, it may be worth looking into as well.





Quote:
Rad Lab Vol 5: Guillemin[1] then argued that, inasmuch as it is impossible to generate such an ideal rectangular pulse by means of a lumped-parameter network, the theoretical pulse that is chosen should intentionally have finite rise and fall times. Mathematically, this condition means that the discontinuity in the pulse shape is eliminated, and that the Fourier series for the generated wave has the necessary property of uniform convergence throughout the whole region. The property of uniform convergence insures that overshoots and oscillations in the pulse can be reduced to any desired degree by using a sufficient number of sections. The introduction of an arbitrary pulse shape leads to a new difficulty, however, in that the impedance function necessary to produce the given pulse shape is unknown.

The logical way to determine the impedance function would be to use the basic circuit of the line-type pulser and work backward from the specified pulse shape to the impedance function necessary to produce it. This procedure proves too difficult, however, and instead, the steady-state problem for the circuit of Fig. 6-12 is solved. The alternating-current wave shape produced by this circuit is specified to be similar to the pulse shape desired. It is then assumed that the network determined on this basis will, when used in the basic line-type pulser, produce a pulse shape reasonably close to the desired form. This assumption has proved surprisingly valid in practice.

[1] E. A. Guillemin, " A Historical Account of the Development of a Design Procedure for Pulse-forming Networks," RL Report No. 43, Oct. 16, 1944.

Theoretically, it is possible to determine a large number of equivalent networks. The methods for carrying out the determinations are all based on mathematical operations on the impedance function of the network. [2] From the mathematical point of view, the impedance function completely characterizes the network, and all networks that have the same impedance function are equivalent. The determination of equivalent networks is therefore primarily a mathematical problem.

[2] For a detailed discussion of equivalent networks, see E. A. Guillemin, Communication Networks, Vol. II, Wiley, New York, 1935, pp. 184-221.

The first Guillemin networks were designed on the basis of a trapezoidal pulse shape having a rise time of approximately 8 per cent. Both five- and seven-section networks were built, but the improvement of the seven-section over the five-section network was very slight. No more than five sections are therefore necessary to generate a pulse having an 8 per cent rise-time parameter. Elimination of the fifth section was found to have an appreciable, although small, deteriorating effect on the pulse.

To recapitulate, the Guillemin theory provides a means of designing pulse-forming networks that duplicate accurately the pulse shapes normally required on a resistance load. It is then possible to compute the actual pulse shape produced by the theoretical network and, by judicious changes in some of the parameters, to approximate even more closely the desired pulse shape.

Quote:
T-Rex: The Tesla Transformer is only a component, such as a resistor or condenser. A simple condenser can force an A.C. wave out of existence, but it can also magnify it to enormous magnitudes. The Tesla Transformer is an impedance to admittance converter. It can also be a phase converter from conventional bi phasic currents to, or from, monophasic currents.

A dielectric translation through space is not a wave. Ultimately it is uni-directional, no magnetic field is expected. See the writings of Vassilatos in "Secrets of Cold War Technology", the Tesla chapter.

The longitudinal analog network that I made known can do some of what the Tesla Transformer can. Later on I came up with a more advanced plan resulting in a complete lumped component network equivalent of a mono-polar transforming Tesla Transformer but that work is now lost. Mutual Inductance is the major complication, as has been recently discussed here. For the most part a simple series resonant circuit of very large inductance and minimal capacitance will produce the results sought after in a specific engineering application. This series circuit, a form of M/C network must be driven by a constant potential source of negligible internal impedance in order to get full magnification and rise in output potential. It can be dangerous.
Quote:
T-Rex: Also the Guillemen line is IMPORTANT, the rest of the MIT pages on it would be helpful here. The Guillemen line is a "single wire" longitudinal transmission structure. Hence it is an analog of a longitudinal wave, or a section of a one wire transmission system. This is known as a "two terminal" network, in distinction to the standard "four terminal" network. Guillemen's rearrangement of the condensers from shunt to series greatly reduced the dielectric stress on these condenser. This allowed for a great reduction of size and weight, important for aircraft.
Quote:
T-Rex: (1) The Guillemin line, or network, can be regarded as an elementary electro-static condenser. It has two terminals, and stores electro-static, or dielectric, energy. this in a manner like the basic condenser. There is one important difference, however, this "Guillemin Condenser" is a "loaded condenser".

The common condenser discharge is of a hyperbolic nature, this in Nepers per second. This is not a pulse, it is an impulse. The variation of a pulse is indefinite in time or a discontinuous function, not a hyperbolic one. The hyperbolic function is a result of a rate of change of a quantity which at each instant is proportional to the magnitude of the quantity itself. This gives rise to Epsilon, or base e natural logarithms. It is a law of energy and thermodynamics. The pulse, in distinction to the impulse, represents a constant flow of electric energy, hence constant power.

(2) Previously discussed was the loading on antenna and long distance telephone lines. For the most part the networks described were all four terminal structures, with the exception of reactance arms. The output terminals were the distant telephone, or the Aether itself. The Guillemin network is a two terminal structure and cannot be considered a transmission network as normally understood. Now it is a transmission network in a counter spatial form. So as with a loaded electro-magnetic telephone pair, a four terminal network, the Guillemin line is a loaded dielectric network, a two terminal network. In his book "communication networks", volume 2, Guillemin is close to a wave equation for counterspace. The "Type A" line can be considered a longitudinal magneto-dielectric transmission line. This is important.
REFERENCES:

[1] Guillemin's ORIGINAL patent regarding rectangular pulses for Radar magnetrons, using PFNs.

Note the date the patent was issued (1949) and when it was filed (1943), Guillemin's PFN work, among other novel radio techniques developed by him and others, were under top secret classification until the end of the war. Interestingly, the whole point of the MIT Rad Lab Series was to disseminate the technologies and techniques developed during the war effort to advance the civilian and academic communities. Aside from the NASA moon program spinoffs, there hasn't been much dissemination of military technology in recent years.

[1a] A fantastic read, 1300pgs long though, is the Spread-Spectrum Communications Handbook, it covers some of Guillemin's contribuitions to radio communication, and the broad field of radar navigation, radio encryption and jamming immunity that the US government was developing. I'm sure this fascinating field was where Mr. Dollard was put to work during his service in the Navy.

[2] Salva Persion - Radial Type-E PFN

Shown is a novel approach to constructing Type-E PFNs, a sort of inverted helical resonator.

[3] MIT Rad Lab Vol 5 Chapter VI, The Pulse Forming Network, pgs 175-224
[4] NASA - Pulse Forming Network for Particle Path Visualization, 1981
[5] WG Walker - High-Power Pulse Forming Network, 1965

Regards,
Garrett M
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  #373  
Old 11-29-2012, 07:24 PM
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madhatter madhatter is offline
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garettm4, you're faster then me with that insightful response. Smokey, not ganging up on you, my apologies if it comes across that way.

This is where it's going to get difficult for the majority here as the needed materials to understand what Eric is talking about are not easily had. not to mention the distinction of pulse and impulse, much like explosion & implosion or fusion & fission.

I think I get what Eric was doing/did. the crystal coil set is step one in grasping the concept of -j. it's also a component that when placed as the pulse forming & output network the pulse form would be a time invariant pulse.

many many thoughts to organize before I shove my foot in my mouth..
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:12 PM
David G Dawson David G Dawson is offline
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Guillemin Theory & Moray

GarrettM4 and Madhatter,
Thankyou for that and most appreciative of how you have put that all together.
I had something set in my mind, not being a deep theoretical person and it was only for the LMD string and all I saw was TEM.
Funny but I also missed the Patent and can now see what it is all about.

Pi is causing me problems and I have an apology to make as some of my data is incorrect BUT only with respect to pi.
Have some questions waiting for an answer but not received as yet.

Actually went to the Lab and took out 2 stainless steel lids that were solid and rolled them along a tape measure many times.
Average pi returned was 3.16 for both lids, C = 524 & 411mm.
Also did it with a dressmaker's cotton tape measure with the same result.

My youthful experiment was only that I had done the same as the above and nothing at all to do with 3.24.
When you are working at about half a meter, it is easy to see any discrepancy.

One is a Harmonic and one is pi which are two totally independent phenomena.
However, there is still something going on here which I am attempting to home in on as I am trying to put Moray together from the information we have and any help is most appreciated.

I did some involved work with the Vesica Pisces for the 'Wheels Of Destiny' and need to re-examinbe that data as I feel there is something there that I have missed.
The Vesica Pisces is all to do with Roots.

Thankyou for your help and will go away with tail between legs and do some careful reading.

Smokey
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:31 AM
David G Dawson David G Dawson is offline
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More on pi

With thanks for guidance from Wayne Thompson of 'The Measuring System Of The Gods' I now have my answer for pi:

Jain's True Value of Pi


Pi does not equal 3.141592
A = (14 – ROOT 2) ÷ 4
= 3.1464466.....

I have always been suspicious of pi and the value we have been forced to use as in determining pi for something to wrap around a cylinder was always that little bit shorter than calculated.
There is a book available at the above site but is A$60 but the above gives you an initial idea as to what is involved.

NASA, I should have remembered back in my tracking days that pi had been changed to accomodate entry and exit of spacecraft using a Planet for sling-shot acceleration to the next Planet (Voyager) but I never thought too much about that in those days.
This now needs to be applied to our Coils but we need to now know exactly which pi to use for that condition.
Different conditions - different pi.
More on this as it comes to hand.

Smokey
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:42 AM
garrettm4 garrettm4 is offline
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Another Slice of Pi Anyone?

With all the mathematical slices of Pi being passed around... I thought I would add a few more to the party.

I've just remembered Arthur D. Delagrange's chapter in Jim Williams' (R.I.P) 1998 book The Art & Science of Analog Circuit Design. I found Delagrange's section of the book to be humorous and full of interesting and useful information. It just so happens that he has some mathematical fun to add to the Pi debate.





*Note to the unsuspecting; If you haven't already realized, these "proofs" are for fun, and NOT intended to provide any meaningful information other than a laugh or two. If you explain something the "right" way... you can confuse almost everyone into believing anything!

Garrett M
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  #377  
Old 11-30-2012, 06:31 AM
rickinva rickinva is offline
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Originally Posted by David G Dawson View Post

.
.
.

Pi is causing me problems and I have an apology to make as some of my data is incorrect BUT only with respect to pi.
Have some questions waiting for an answer but not received as yet.

Actually went to the Lab and took out 2 stainless steel lids that were solid and rolled them along a tape measure many times.
Average pi returned was 3.16 for both lids, C = 524 & 411mm.
Also did it with a dressmaker's cotton tape measure with the same result.

My youthful experiment was only that I had done the same as the above and nothing at all to do with 3.24.
When you are working at about half a meter, it is easy to see any discrepancy.

.
.
.
Smokey
Smokey:

As long as you try to determine Pi by doing physical measurements, you will always have erroneous answers.

Any attempt to determine Pi by doing physical measurements (measuring the radius length and then rolling the circumference along a straight line and measuring that length) will "always" result in errors in trying to obtain the exact ratio. The reason being your inability to get the "exact" lengths involved. Errors in either or both measurements result in wrong values for Pi.

If what you are doing was that easy, the Ancients would have had the correct value long ago. The best the ancient Egyptians could come up with was 22/7, which was close (approximately 3.1429) verses ( a closer value of 3.1415 known today).

If we used exact measurement values:

R = 2"
then C approx 12.5664
Pi = 12.5664/2/2 = 3.1416 approximately

But if R is a little off

Let C= 12.5664

If R = 1.99 (off only .01" less than exact value)
Pi would be 12.5664/2/1.99 = 3.1574

If R = 1.98 (off only .02")
Pi would be 2.5664/2/1.98 = 3.1733

Now let your measurement of C be off a little

Let C = 12.5664 + .01 = 12.5764
Ir R = 2
Pi = 3.1441

Let C = 12.5664 - .01 = 12.5564
If R = 2 +.01 = 2.01
Pi = 3.1235

Let C = 12.5664 + .03 = 12.5964
If R = 2 - .02 = 1.98
Pi = 3.1809

Thus very, very small mismeasurements in either or both (the radius length and/or where the circumference point actually hits the straight line or the measurement of that length) will cause plenty of error in your results.

THAT is why it is calculated by mathematical means and NOT physical means. Only Calculus can give you a somewhat accurate approximate value. And that takes solving for the value of an infinite series to some determined degree of accuracy. Remember, we can NEVER KNOW the EXACT value for Pi, its decimal value never stops or repeats. and THAT fact about it IS KNOWN to be TRUE.

I say approximate, because, Pi has no "end" to its decimal value, nor does it repeat a set of digits to infinity at some point, thus it can never accurately be written as a fraction of whole Integers or as a decimal . We just can NOT measure matter accurately enough to ever get an exact value for Pi.

3.14159265358978323 is more than accurate enough for any physical use you will ever have.

Rick
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:14 AM
rickinva rickinva is offline
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Occassional needs to adjust the value of Pi used

The problem, when the value of Pi is adjusted in a calculation, does NOT lie in the value of Pi, but rather in the inaccurate formula that is being used that includes Pi.

Mathematical equations, when used to model our observed reality, are not always accurate. Thus the need, from time to time, to use "fudge" factors to bring predicted outcomes closer to the true physical results.

So, rather then try to "redefine" Pi, consider refining your formulas, or determine the needed "fudge factor(s) that might be necessary to bring those formulas closer to observed reality.

Case in point:

My father was a self taught "electronics technician", working in an electronics manufacturing plant in the quality Control Section.

Often design engineers would bring their schematics to my father to have him figure out how to make the designed circuit really work.

In other words, equations can only take you so far, when components are not "accurate".

Rick
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:09 AM
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Dr. Green, 3101 and 4594

1) The standing wave patterns you have shown show exactly what is in progress along the coil (resonator) distance variable. It is a transmission line problem but for longitudinal rather than transverse propagation.

This reduces to a basic Ohm's Law calculation,

Let Z = characteristic impedance, and

Let I = input current into line, and

Let E = output voltage at end of line.

When the line exhibits a Pi over two displacement between input and end of the line it is then;

Output E is the product of the input current, I, multiplied by the characteristic impedance, Z,

Basic Ohm's Law, E equals I times Z. This law also applies to analog nets, or ladder lines, both transverse and longitudinal networks.

2) It is further known that the product of the input current and the input EMF is equal to the product of the output potential and the displacement current at the output of the line. Also the magnification factor, n, applies to the ratio of the output potential to the input EMF but this is in a round about way. At the end of the type written part of my "Theory of Wireless Power", coil section, is the Steinmetz equations for the Pi over two (quarter wave) network, or line. See first chapters of "Transients in Space" a part of "Theory and Calculation of Transient Electric Waves".

In general, the output impedance of the network must be greater than the characteristic impedance, Z, of this network. This gives a rise in output potential, E. Likewise, the input impedance of the network must be less than the characteristic impedance, Z, of this network. This gives a rise in input current, I. Both these conditions must be met in order to maintain a Pi over two distribution on the coil or generalized network.

This relationship of input impedance and output impedance is best expressed in an alternate manner. Rather than use the dimensional relation of impedance in Ohms, the dimensional relation of admittance in Siemens is the proper expression of the output. Hence the relations input impedance, and output admittance. Zero input impedance gives rise to large resonant currents, reflecting the electric wave back into the network. Likewise zero output admittance gives rise to large resonant potentials, also reflecting the electric wave back into the network, back now in the reverse direction towards the zero impedance input. Large Kilovolt-amperes can be generated in this manner. This is the arch-principle of the "Resonant Transformer".

It is a property of a self resonant solenoid that in its resonant Pi over two mode, this coil also serves as a phase converter. In free oscillation the resonant coil exhibits only one active pole, the neutral. No return conductor is connected to this network, only the neutral terminal. This mono-pole is the current end of the resonant coil.. It is this essential element of Pi over two resonance that makes Telluric transmission possible. Electro-magnetic boundary conditions no longer have any meaning in this mode of electric wave transmission. Such transmission cannot be developed by the use of transverse E.M. structures, nor analog networks. It is a singular property of the resonant coil. Hence the transmission system envisioned by Nikola Tesla (Wardenclyffe).

3) The ability of a network to operate in the Pi over two mode is the result of an impedance and an admittance mis-match. If the input impedance matches the characteristic impedance of the network, and likewise, the output admittance matches the characteristic admittance of the network, then no energy is stored in the network as now the energy is transferred into, and then out of, the network structure. Such is called a transmission network. It is no longer a resonant network.

It is the asymmetry of the input and output mis-matches that gives rise to the Pi over two distribution. One side is high, the other side is low, with respect to the natural impedance of the network. Conversely, one side is low, the other side is high, with respect to the natural (Characteristic) admittance of the network. The low-impedance side, Z, is always current side, the low admittance side, Y, is always the potential side. Reversing ends with this relation reverses the Pi over two distribution along the network (coil). These two factors, the input impedance, Z, and the output admittance, Y allow for algebraic expression of the transfer constants of the network. The product ZY represents the square of the propagation constant. This relates to the frequency or wavelength. The ratio Z to Y represents the square of the characteristic impedance of the network. These relations allow for the calculation of network behavior.

4) Let us take the information given and apply it to the transitional point interconnecting the output side of the secondary coiled resonator and the input side of the extra coil resonator. There exists a definite current and voltage at this transition point. This transition point is a node of reflection to refraction. The expression of the ratio of the reflection to the refraction is related to the expression of magnification factor. It is a requirement that the input impedance of the extra coil must be less than the characteristic impedance. Also, it must be less than the output impedance at the high end of the extra coil. Hereby the Pi over two distribution can exist along the coil space (length) variable. In order to maximize reflection, this to create large magnification, the impedance connected to the input side must be very much less than both the characteristic impedance and the output impedance.

It can hereby be seen that the output impedance of the secondary coil is also the input impedance seen by the extra coil. This is the consequence of the nodal transition point which can exhibit only one ratio of voltage to current, that is, only a single impedance. Hence it is important that the output impedance of the secondary coil should be as low as possible, so as to bring the input impedance of the extra coil to a magnitude very much less than the natural impedance of this extra coil.

This requirement is met by secondary coils of small inductance and large self capacity. These are coils of large diameter but small coil height. Flat spirals of few close turns suggest themselves as low impedance secondary structures.

5) It is a consequence of resonant coils that the output impedance is high, that is, many times greater than the natural impedance of the coil, such as the secondary. This further complicates providing the desired input impedance to the extra coil. Thus a secondary coil of very low natural impedance is required. This explains the extreme diameter ratios seen between secondary and extra coils used at Colorado Springs. See my analysis of the Colorado Springs setup.

In view of this secondary coil requirement, it is best that it be replaced by an equivalent network consisting of lumped coils and condensers. This is often in a configuration known as a "Pi network", one series arm with a pair of pillar, or shunt, arms on the input and output. This give the figure of the letter Pi. A phase leading network uses a series condenser, a phase lagging network uses a series inductor. The shunt arms are thus inductors or condensers respectively. Lead networks are LMD, and lag networks are TEM.

Lag networks are preferred since the armatures of the condensers can be put at ground potential. Also the lag network inhibits harmonic and transient frequencies. Formulae for the impedance transforming characteristics are found in the A.R.R.L. "Radio Amateur Handbook". Their use is shown in converting from low line impedance to high tube impedance, or the other way around. The material is listed in easy to use tables with diagram. The Pi network structure is by far the most effective means for exciting the extra coil into the resonant magnification of potential.

The use of the secondary coil is principle for basic Telluric transmission. The use of the extra coil is principly for magnification of potential. The Telluric work favors the secondary coil, whereas the vacuum tube (Crookes) work favors the extra coil. These are basic engineering considerations. It should be noted that the magnification of potential is very important in Telluric reception where a detector element is required, such as the grid of a vacuum tube. For the most part the interaction of the secondary and extra coils is a needless complication in experimental work along basic lines. This is to say, the Pi network is the best means by which to study extra coil behavior.
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  #380  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:31 AM
garrettm4 garrettm4 is offline
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Pi(con)fusion

An Excursion into the World of Philosophy & Religion; Oh Sweet Persuasion

--Perfection & Idealism Vs. Actuality & Attainability--

In Smokey's defense, and in as realistic a way of thinking, mathematics relates to IMAGINARY PERFECTION, the universe around us does NOT embody this wishful IDEALISM, it embodies ACTUALITY engendered by ATTAINABILITY. That is, perfection can only be approximated. Just as we all strive to live like Jesus[1] - the only "perfect" man to live on Earth (or so I'm frequently told), we all fail to act exactly like him. We, despite our best efforts, reflect an imperfect image of a perfect idea.

So too does nature try to emulate, as best it can with the constraints placed upon it[2], a similar state of perfection. Pi, whatever its exact value in the arbitrary number system used[3], is a ratio who's value is imaginary, in the sense that it can not be produced to perfection outside of theory. We can only attain an approximation. Much like the seemingly innocent numbers zero & infinity. Can we really have "nothing"[4]? Is "empty" space really empty[5]? How can you have an endless amount of something? Can that really exist? Leaving these existential questions behind[6], and returning to Pi, we can safely say that the debated numeric value for Pi is purely situation dependent. As theoretical idealism is not attainable in actuality. Each situation, given its own unique conditions, would engender a specific condition of imperfection.

It's probable that NASA uses a different value for Pi[7] considering Outer Space isn't perfect, no planet is a perfect sphere, no orbit is a perfect circle - everything is spheroidal and elliptical. It would seem fit that a specific value for Pi that fits the actual situation seems in order. The famed "fudge-factor" makes its debut.

A less philosophical topic to the Pi debate is that of the method of measurement. Not in the physical sense, but in the analytical approach to using mathematical machinery to derive an answer. As evidenced by the various values suggested, there is more than one way to derive an answer. The two "proofs" given by myself earlier, show that there are no constraints on how you can attack the problem. While some approaches may be frowned upon it doesn't necessarily make them invalid. That said, any rigorous examination of this measurement problem is met, surprisingly, with similar results. Evidenced by all the different, but very close, values given for Pi throughout human history. People in places that had absolutely no communication with one another achieved very similar results. This forms the backbone of the corroborative and statistically relevant value for Pi. As humanity progressed its mathematical machinery, so too have we used it to examine this age old problem. This evolutionary process has lead to finding the decimal value of Pi to an enormously useless level of precision. Mathematicians have currently taken this holy crusade so far, its almost an effort in enlarging their own egos. Realistically, the further expansion of our decimal precision for Pi, is merely an effort futility. As 6 digits is about all that is ever used.

Concluding this discussion, does Pi relate to 3.1459..., 3.1464... or 3.24? Probably. It depends on how you got the answer and if you used a fudge-factor along the way. Certain situational context (NASA) may demand a different value for Pi than the Ivory Tower mathematical idealism provides. In the end, people will want to polarize the situation and demand that one value is more correct over another, much like religion and philosophy. Most people will go with the orthodox value while others will join a cult and believe in a different value. That said, the engineer will build using what works for him and using as few of decimal digits needed to get there[8].

*To cool down after all of that, please enjoy watching a short clip from the British 1980s TV show Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, a question about the universe, life and everything. (The best part starts @ 3:20 in the video, my favorite part (starts @ 4:02 in video) when the philosophers come in are talking about loosing their jobs.)

[1] If you're Cristian, that is.
[2] From gravity to magnetic and electrostatic forces to nuclear forces the natural world is pushed pulled, compress and contorted by many factors. The natural imbalance of these and many other forces, in the macro world, leads to inevitable imperfection in physical objects.
[3] Base-10 is not the only number system.
[4] The Einsteiners & Relativists would have you believe so.
[5] The Maxwellians would give a resounding NO. Modern QED physicists would also say no.
[6] These questions are best handled on the basis of "faith" as further scrutiny will yield no clear answer.
[7] This based purely on hearsay and the postulate that the universe is an imperfect structure having defects.
[8] Engineering is the heartland of approximations, where tolerances dictate the level of precision produced.

*Note, this was a satirical and slightly sarcastic write up of my thoughts on the recent discussion regarding Pi. In no way is this intended to offend anyone, merely to convey a different perspective with some hidden humor. No claims are made as to what the right answer is, just a philosophical overview of the situation. For argumentative replies please send as a PM.

Garrett M
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:21 AM
rickinva rickinva is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garrettm4 View Post
An Excursion into the World of Philosophy & Religion; Oh Sweet Persuasion

--Perfection & Idealism Vs. Actuality & Attainability--

In Smokey's defense, and in as realistic a way of thinking, mathematics relates to IMAGINARY PERFECTION, the universe around us does NOT embody this wishful IDEALISM, it embodies ACTUALITY engendered by ATTAINABILITY. That is, perfection can only be approximated. Just as we all strive to live like Jesus[1] - the only "perfect" man to live on Earth (or so I'm frequently told), we all fail to act exactly like him. We, despite our best efforts, reflect an imperfect image of a perfect idea.

So to does nature try to emulate, as best it can with the constraints placed upon it, a similar state of perfection. Pi, whatever its exact value in the arbitrary number system used[2], is a ratio who's value is imaginary, in the sense that it can not be produced to perfection outside of theory. We can only attain an approximation. Much like the seemingly innocent numbers zero & infinity. Can we really have "nothing"[3]? Is "empty" space really empty[4]? How can you have an endless amount of something? Can that really exist? Leaving these existential questions behind[5], and returning to Pi, we can safely say that the debated numeric value for Pi is purely situation dependent. As theoretical idealism is not attainable in actuality. Each situation, given its own unique conditions, would engender a specific condition of imperfection.

I have no doubt that NASA uses a different value for Pi because Outer Space isn't perfect, NO planet is a perfect sphere, NO orbit is a perfect circle - everything is spheroidal and elliptical. It would seem fit that a specific value for Pi that fits the actual situation seems in order. The famed "fudge-factor" makes its debut.

A less philosophical topic to the Pi debate is that of the method of measurement. Not in the physical sense, but in the analytical approach to using mathematical machinery to derive an answer. As evidenced by the various values suggested, there is more than one way to derive an answer. The two "proofs" given by myself earlier, show that there are no constraints on how you can attack the problem. While some approaches may be frowned upon it doesn't necessarily make them invalid. That said, any rigorous examination of this measurement problem is met, surprisingly, with similar results. Evidenced by all the different, but very close, values given for Pi throughout human history. People in places that had absolutely no communication with one another achieved very similar results. This forms the backbone of the corroborative and statistically relevant value for Pi. As humanity progressed its mathematical machinery, so too have we used it to examine this age old problem. This evolutionary process has lead to finding the decimal value of Pi to an enormously useless level of precision. Mathematicians have currently taken this holy crusade so far Its almost an effort in enlarging their own egos. Realistically, the further expansion of our decimal precision for Pi, is merely an effort futility. As 6 digits is about all that is ever used.

Concluding this discussion, does Pi relate to 3.1459..., 3.1464... or 3.24? Probably. It depends on how you got the answer and if you used a fudge-factor along the way. Certain situational context (NASA) may demand a different value for Pi than the Ivory Tower mathematical idealism provides.


[1] If your Cristian, that is.
[2] Base-10 is not the only number system.
[3] The Einsteiners & Relativists would have you believe so.
[4] The Maxwellians would give a resounding NO. Modern QED physicists would also say no.
[5] These questions are best handled on the bases of "faith" as further scrutiny will yield no clear answer.

Garrett M



The fact remains that "a cat is a cat", "red is red" and "one is one" by any other name. Some things in Life are socially "defined".

What number base (assuming you are using a positive rational number for the modulus) makes absolutely NO difference as to whether Pi is rational or irrational. In ALL positive rational number bases it is IRRATIONAL.

Pi is NOT something that can be fudged. It is a "defined" number. A DEFINED mathematical number. That is why it has a SPECIAL symbol that represents it and ONLY it in mathematics. (Just like "e").

Now the formulas you use are YOUR choice. The more accurate they are the closer your predictions will come to your observed results.

If you want to use Pi in your equations, THAT is YOUR choice. BUT, if you use it, then use it as it IS. I suggest that, if doing so, gives you results that do not match "reality" as you seemingly observe them, then the problem is NOT the value of PI, but your formula.

Your desire to use some hybrid number for "Pi" would be like wanting to use some other type curve (than one where its circumference was NOT equidistant from its center point) and call your curve a circle. A Circle is a circle and Pi is Pi. They have absolutely nothing inherently to do with reality. They a mathematical constructs.

If Pi doesn't work usefully in your formulas, then don't use it. But if you do use it, then don't try to set yourself apart by redefining it.

If NASA can't use it in their calculations, then maybe, just maybe, NASA should stop trying to calculate orbits, etc. based on "Relativity" and go back to a older model of space, taking into consideration the Ether. The problem doesn't lie in the value of Pi, it lies in their models of reality.

NASA and individuals do NOT define "mathematical" constants, mathematicians do. Using mathematical constants in formulas is a "choice" of the person doing the modeling. But, don't blame the "defined constant" if it doesn't yield a useful model equation/solution.

Whether or not you like the idea, there is ONE and ONLY ONE "defined" number called Pi, It IS the value that satisfies the equations that define it, as their result.

If Pi doesn't work for you, fine, then don't use it.

Use your own "Phooey" constant (lets give it the symbol "Fy" to represent it), if that seems to work better, but don't call your "fudge factor" (Fy) "Pi", unless it equals "Pi" in decimal value.

Ivory Towers have absolutely nothing to do with this issue. Mathematics is a construct; A language; A logical system A "defined" "science" in its own right. Other people are free to make use of it, if doing so proves useful to them, but those people are NOT FREE to redefine its terms, definitions or constants.

Any relationship between mathematics and the world around, in many cases, is purely accidental.

The world does not determine mathematics and mathematics does not define the world. Mathematics is to the "world around", what the Law is to "Justice".

Many, many aspects of mathematics have absolutely no reflection in the real world, whatsoever, as we perceive the world.

After all, who has ever really "seen" the "world around". I haven't, I've only "seen" what my "mind" presents to me as what it "thinks" the "outside" world must look, feel, smell, taste or sound like.

God only knows what it is really like, but I'm sure my mind is wrong.

Solids aren't solid, and there is no such thing as "color" or "sound" outside the mind, and no guarantees that what you experience as color or sound is exactly the same as what I do, even if we do call what we experience by the same "defined" names.

If our eyes and mind could "see" ALL frequencies of electromagnetic radiation, we would be totally blinded by the extreme bright white light all around us. Nature did us a favor by limiting what we can see (though personally, I do wish I could also see IR and UV radiation, like some creatures can).

Pi is still and always approximately 3.14159265358979323 in base 10.

Rick
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:07 PM
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Thanks Garrett and Eric. It's late to get into a proper response now but I currently have a new secondary in the making. It was intended to be 20% height to diameter ratio with 17 turns, but it's not built yet so on the basis of this new information it will be 15% like the Colorado Springs coil. This new secondary frame also has a design improvement which should allow for better connection to the extra coil and ground. This will be used to gather some data before building a "full scale" coil for AM radio reception. I suppose for that a basic scaled down Colorado Springs unit should do, without any modifications? (Thanks for the scaling method by the way).

Tesla mentioned in an article, possibly The Problem Of Increasing Human Energy, that his Colorado coil was the "most powerful" design, but for Wardenclyffe he was planning on using the "best" design that he knew of. So I wonder in what way they are different in operation to such a degree for him to say that, and what "best" means?

On a side note I also have two flat spiral coils with 13 metres of secondary wire, which is equal to the secondary coil wire length I've been testing here. I was planning on combining one with the extra coil at some point to see what it did, and one was going to be used as a test receiver with the TMT. Basic Telluric work seems relatively straight forward compared to this extra coil business, so once a frequency is decided upon then it shouldn't take too long to do a little better than Meyl's boat demo I think, as a first step through giving the mystics entertaining things, bypassing their unsuspecting defences and planting the seed of truth.

One thing that came to mind on the secondary/concatenated coils frequency tests is that the condenser ring at the top of the secondary has always been connected throughout all tests which would have reduced its frequency somewhat, so I'll remove it and see what the new frequency is.

On the subject of earthquakes, this was repeated on the propaganda box earlier and fortunately it's also on youtube

Why Can't We Predict Earthquakes ? (BBC Documentary) - YouTube

The part at 40 minutes 45 seconds in particular is interesting and the guy that follows. By applying pressure to a rock, the rock starts to produce an electrical current. He believes before an earthquake the rocks could be producing thousands of amps.

Quote:
SCIENCE HIGHLIGHT
Planetary Geodynamics Laboratory, Code 698
January 2005
Stress on Rocks Generates Electric Currents
Freund Leads Effort Connected to Possible Earthquake Precursor Signals
Earthquakes are the result of stresses that build up in the crust of the Earth, most often associated with plate motion. Stresses on rock may produce other observable phenomena in advance of the actual rupture (earthquake). One of these observables may be caused by weak currents generated in the rock by increased pressure associated with the build up of stress. This has been the focus of research by Friedemann Freund and co-workers. They have approached this problem from both a theoretical and experimental basis, and recently conducted a series of benchmark experiments which show that stresses on igneous rocks (like granite) convert mechanical energy into electric current. This results from the activation of charge carriers (including positive "defect electrons" formed within the stressed rock). The figure below shows the experimental apparatus recently used. If a circuit is available, the flow is out of the stressed rock into its surroundings, and lasts for hours even after the stresses are no longer increased.



Experimental apparatus for measuring the currents generated by stressing rocks. The experiments were carried out using the facilities at the Department of Civil Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park, and the Department of Civil Engineering, San Jose State University.
Planetary Geodynamics Laboratoy Science Highlight
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  #383  
Old 11-30-2012, 12:52 PM
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Rick,

Socially defined things are not reality, they are just a predominant train of thought or an agreed view so to keep convention. What if the convention was based on spherical geometry as above where Garrett posted the page from The Art & Science of Analog Circuit Design. Pi would then be 2 and so is reality isn't it, it is socially defined?

Mathematics is only a tool to try to describe reaity and is not reality itself. So ideally I should calculate using pi to infinite decimal places? But then that would not match reality because circular objects in reality aren't perfect circles. Give me a situation where pi is used to somewhere more than 10 decimal places in reality, not maths which is just a tool, but reality.

I am not doubting that using the idea of a perfect circle is not useful BUT it is not reality.
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  #384  
Old 11-30-2012, 05:20 PM
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Dr Green 3101 and 4594 continues

1) The experimental work of Dr Green highlights some of what has been given here on resonant coils. It is unfortunate that only Dr Green gives us data for study, others just "hide away" their work or yield "multiply".

The standing wave patterns of Dr Green's setup for frequency 3101 clearly shows the Tandem mode, this where the Pi over two rise extends from one coil into the other coil, rendering them one Pi over two resonator.

The standing wave patterns for the 4594 frequency show that the transitional node impedance is much too high. It can be seen here that the Pi over two distribution on the extra coil is reversed. This shows that the secondary output impedance is much too high, even higher than the burden at the other end of the extra coil. This will be a relentless complication.

2) It is important that a radio frequency milli-ammeter be inserted in the secondary neutral to ground connection, this is the measure of Telluric activity. Potential and current probes always detune the coils, this is a major complication. This is why self contained devices such as small lamps are best, as they have no connection to external gear. A book called "UHF Radio Simplified", by Kiver is good information on measuring the non-meterable quantity and standing wave patterns.

For balanced, push pull setups like madhatter, no Telluric output exists, and the R.F. ammeter now connects between the two neutrals of the A and B secondaries. It is best that this junction NOT be connected to ground. For push pull the dielectric field around the coil pair resembles that of the magnetic field around a bar magnet, it is a CLOSED field. Hence the push pull system cannot transmit and thus is incapable of interference to other services. This pleases the radio authorities, such as the FCC.

73 DE N6KPH

Note read "Radio Engineers Handbook", by Terman page 210 to 214 of Pi networks





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  #385  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by T-rex View Post

For balanced, push pull setups like madhatter, no Telluric output exists, and the R.F. ammeter now connects between the two neutrals of the A and B secondaries. It is best that this junction NOT be connected to ground. For push pull the dielectric field around the coil pair resembles that of the magnetic field around a bar magnet, it is a CLOSED field. Hence the push pull system cannot transmit and thus is incapable of interference to other services. This pleases the radio authorities, such as the FCC.

73 DE N6KPH
T-Rex, thank you for the detail on that. I wasn't expecting any interference on from EM transmittance but was not 100% sure. I did get interference on the cell, but that's a capacitive device which is more likely to be effected, yes? granted the phone was in close proximity to the coils so hence it would have been in the dielectric field.

I will get more data to share as soon as the RF generator is fixed, sent it out for repairs. the last time it stopped working was when the push-pull coils were tuned. honestly I'm not familiar with the equipment enough to know what I did wrong. It's probably a good idea to separate the RF signal generator from the circuit, a 1:1 isolation coil perhaps?

I still wonder about the TEM signal, it's a counter-space field. a receptive means is possible, from what I've studied on USL/SL waves the signal can be picked up. I'll see about getting the NASA docs on it scanned and posted. the behavior of lighting and pulsars is fundamentally a TEM wave. it's also of benefit to overcome radio black out, for both benign and nefarious reasons.

need to locate Guillemins communication network books, anyone know of a scanned copy? I have is mathematics book on circuit analysis.

Eric, am I wrong in thinking that a two stage PFN where the extra coil is excited in the second stage with the kV output pulse is one half of a TEM transmitter?
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:24 PM
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  #387  
Old 11-30-2012, 10:49 PM
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Lightning Discharges

1) Lightning is a process of dielectric saturation, that is the flux density is beyond the capacity of the dielectric to hold. Where in magnetism flux lines are forced outward at the onset of saturation, it is the dielectric flux lines are drawn inward, towards each other. This leads to a concentration which gives rise to further saturation. A runaway process is possible, such as a lightning discharge.

The dielectric space in which the energy exists to power the discharge is near one cubic kilometer. It is like a condenser. The initial "charge" of this cube of space is derived from the condenser formed by the atmosphere between the ionosphere and the earth. This is the earth-ionosphere condenser. It is shown in the drawings of Nikola Tesla, theory to realization.

2) The thunder cloud utilizes movements of water in its formation of large quantities of dielectric induction. Water has a dielectric constant of 80. This in increase of capacitance 80 times. The velocity of light in the water is 9 times slower than free space, the square root of 80.

For a given quantity of charge the potential in the charge is inversely proportional to the capacitance of the charge. If a given charge exists in an 80 dielectric constant is suddenly existant in a unity dielectric constant, a large rise in potential will occur. These conditions exist in thunder clouds. Here is where the high voltage develops, this in a manner much like the Marx generator.

3) In the process of dielectric breakdown, various coronas or streamers appear in "fractal" geometric forms. This is the onset of saturation. The corona increases the capacitance and draws nearer to the opposite pole. If the potential is constant the saturation increases. Finally the saturation draws into a central core and a spark discharge occurs. This is total saturation.

The lightning discharge is this central core discharge, this discharging the one cubic kilometer condenser. The spark discharge disrupts the potential of this one cube condenser, it is a disruptive discharge. This gives rise to strong displacement currents in this cubic space, lines of force are moving transversely toward the core discharge. No magnetic avenue of escape exists in this radial implosion of transverse dielectric induction. The passage of this wave of flux will induce electric waves in transmission lines.

4) The central core is the seat of electrical conduction, this through the actions of the electrons and ions released by the disruptive discharge. Hence the actual lightning discharge, as seen in the lightning itself, is a long thin conductor. This a perfect birthplace for magnetism. Rings of magnetic induction expand outward from the core, much like waves. Hence the actual luminous discharge is the "converter" from dielectricity to magnetism. Where the dielectric goes in, the magnetic goes out. Like the dielectric motions, the magnetic can induce electric waves in transmission systems.

Lagging the outward expanding rings of magnetism and also expanding outward is the electric current. This current wave is derived from the electronic current of the lightning strike. The radial voltage gradient of this current wave can electrocute one standing upon it. This is what most often is the cause of death in a lightning mishap.

73 DE N6KPH
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  #388  
Old 11-30-2012, 11:02 PM
David G Dawson David G Dawson is offline
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Test loading Pics

This is a test to see if I can't upload pictures:



This is my CSI setup with a variable Condenser between Secondary and Extra.

Have been delayed in powering up due to heatwave conditions here which makes work tedious, not as young as I used to be.

Difficult to 'hide' my data as I have presented everything that was of interest but making an attempt to see if we can't give you what you require.

Smokey
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  #389  
Old 11-30-2012, 11:05 PM
David G Dawson David G Dawson is offline
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Picture Test

Are you now able to see those pics?

25 in there, only asked for the one but gave the lot.

Smokey
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  #390  
Old 11-30-2012, 11:28 PM
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madhatter madhatter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex View Post
Lightning Discharges

1) Lightning is a process of dielectric saturation, that is the flux density is beyond the capacity of the dielectric to hold. Where in magnetism flux lines are forced outward at the onset of saturation, it is the dielectric flux lines are drawn inward, towards each other. This leads to a concentration which gives rise to further saturation. A runaway process is possible, such as a lightning discharge.

The dielectric space in which the energy exists to power the discharge is near one cubic kilometer. It is like a condenser. The initial "charge" of this cube of space is derived from the condenser formed by the atmosphere between the ionosphere and the earth. This is the earth-ionosphere condenser. It is shown in the drawings of Nikola Tesla, theory to realization.

2) The thunder cloud utilizes movements of water in its formation of large quantities of dielectric induction. Water has a dielectric constant of 80. This in increase of capacitance 80 times. The velocity of light in the water is 9 times slower than free space, the square root of 80.

For a given quantity of charge the potential in the charge is inversely proportional to the capacitance of the charge. If a given charge exists in an 80 dielectric constant is suddenly existant in a unity dielectric constant, a large rise in potential will occur. These conditions exist in thunder clouds. Here is where the high voltage develops, this in a manner much like the Marx generator.

3) In the process of dielectric breakdown, various coronas or streamers appear in "fractal" geometric forms. This is the onset of saturation. The corona increases the capacitance and draws nearer to the opposite pole. If the potential is constant the saturation increases. Finally the saturation draws into a central core and a spark discharge occurs. This is total saturation.

The lightning discharge is this central core discharge, this discharging the one cubic kilometer condenser. The spark discharge disrupts the potential of this one cube condenser, it is a disruptive discharge. This gives rise to strong displacement currents in this cubic space, lines of force are moving transversely toward the core discharge. No magnetic avenue of escape exists in this radial implosion of transverse dielectric induction. The passage of this wave of flux will induce electric waves in transmission lines.

4) The central core is the seat of electrical conduction, this through the actions of the electrons and ions released by the disruptive discharge. Hence the actual lightning discharge, as seen in the lightning itself, is a long thin conductor. This a perfect birthplace for magnetism. Rings of magnetic induction expand outward from the core, much like waves. Hence the actual luminous discharge is the "converter" from dielectricity to magnetism. Where the dielectric goes in, the magnetic goes out. Like the dielectric motions, the magnetic can induce electric waves in transmission systems.

Lagging the outward expanding rings of magnetism and also expanding outward is the electric current. This current wave is derived from the electronic current of the lightning strike. The radial voltage gradient of this current wave can electrocute one standing upon it. This is what most often is the cause of death in a lightning mishap.

73 DE N6KPH
this is a fascinating phenomenon, I'm short on time right now. later this evening I can post more.
the research papers cover the intra cloud RF radiation and the lack of EM waves, the unknown reason for the delay, absence or advance of the RF radiation in a discharge. this is covered in plasma work as well and I have some papers correlating the two. this is transverse EM research from the late 50's thru 80's
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