The Extraluminal Transmission Systems of Tesla and Alexanderson by Eric Dollard

The Secret of Tesla's Power Magnification

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2012, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by lamare View Post
Kind of challenging to get all this straight.

I'll try to answer your questions from what I understand.

First of all, the magnification. As you can see from Dr. Stiffler's experiments and the Joule-thief stuff, it is possible to drain power from the aether.

There have been no remotely conclusive experiments that show it in fact is coming from the ether by anyone.


The way these systems, as well as Tesla's TMT, do this is by means of longitudinal resonance, a resonating current-less electric field or better: standing longitudinal dielectric wave.

Any rod (antenna element) will resonate longitudinally.

So, with these kinds of systems, you can get a power gain, BUT this power is in a shape that it contains no magnetic field.

Nothing conclusive has ever been seen with that respect either. Power gain better entropy management? Everything I have seen has been better entropy management.


And since magnetic fields and currents as we know them go hand in hand, the essential problem with all these systems is how to convert the power we gained in the (di)electric field into usable power.

Yeh especially since the second you want to use it it must become current.


As you can see with the Joulethief stuff, you can easily use the electric field to light a fluorescent, but it is much harder to run a motor on it. I still haven't reached the bottom on this, but my article on Peswiki with the part on Bearden's "don't kill the dipole" goes a long why in explaining why you can get a power gain with these kinds of systems:

Article:Free Electric Energy in Theory and Practice - PESWiki

I will look at that later but I am not a bearden fan but I will look at it.

It comes down to this: when you create a longitudinal resonance in some system, you have to drive it one way or another from a normal power source.

yes


That costs you in terms of energy.

yes

However, when you have a higher order resonance in your system, you have multiple oscillating dipoles, of which (ideally) only one is driven from your power source. The other ones draw their energy from the aether itself and thus come for free.

If that is true then these systems would all explode from overload and yet the exact opposite is happening and they die their slow deaths of entropy.


And it appears that only longitudinal resonance modes are capable of effectively drawing energy from the aether. It appears that longitudinal waves do not easily radiate away into space and loose energy, while EM waves do radiate and leak any power gain that may be present straight out into space. That is why Tesla did not like "Herzian" waves at all...

what exactly is "longitudinal resonance" as you are using it here? what is the media for this resonance exactly?

Now the impedance. When you are using complex mathematics to calculate electric systems, you calculate with impedances. The nice thing about calculating with complex mathematics is that it makes calculations on harmonic systems much easier, because you can calculate with capacitors and inductors almost as if they are frequency dependent resistors.

yes

Now the impedance of a capacitor Zc = 1 / (jw C) -> with j the square root of minus 1 and w the Greek letter omega, 2 times pi times the frequency. And the impedance of an inductor Zl = jw L.

So, if you want a high impedance, you need either a high inductance or a low capacitance.

yes

Now note the word characteristic. That means we are not talking about the impedance of the coil as a whole, but about the distributed impedance. In other words: he is considering the coil in terms of a distributed transmission line. as a whole however, you dont calculate for 1 turn, you calculate the what you want for a resultant coil et al.

All right. Now we are talking about the specific case of having a coil in a longitudinal resonance mode, whereby we design our coil such that transverse waves across it's circumference are suppressed.

do you have a "working" demonstration of this?


Since the longitudinal wave travels along the length of the coil, it does not "see" the inductance of the windings. It propagates from one winding to the next by means of the tiny capacitors that exist between the coil wires.

Naudin illustrated this very nicely:
The L.M.D./T.E.M.Test


Now only in the specific case that the circumference of the coil equals an odd multiple of the transverse wavelength, you get no TEM wave. And THAT is what we need to accomplish with a Tesla coil, or better, the "extra" coil.

So you need each turn to be some odd multiple of fo, again has anyone demonstrated this to be the case?

That in itself would prove LMD.


Now when you look very deeply into what magnetism is, it is a rotational movement of the aether, (or something in the ether that appears to rotate or causes rotation) while dielectricity is a translation, a "straight" displacement, of the aether. (or simply a static potential difference like a battery)

So, anything magnetic HAS to have this rotational movement of the aether, while the propagation of dielectricity moves just straight ahead.

How does dielectricity move without forming current?

How does a current form without an associated magnetic field?


In other words: magnetic stuff takes a detour of netto half a circle (pi*r) while the dielectric moves straight on (2*r). When you divide these, you get the factor pi/2.

That is not going faster than the speed of light but only having another path to follow by mutual inductance conductance insert whatever.


So, when you are talking about longitudinal waves and/or dielectricity, you have to find a way to get rid of the magnetic component. And you can do that with a resonating coil with proper design...

Anytime you have a current you have magnetism, so that does not make sense.


And one of the first things you have to let go is the idea that the inductance or overall self capacitance of a coil is of any use. At frequencies above the self-resonance frequency of a coil, these are totally useless.

At sufficiently high frequencies, it does not even matter how many turns you make on your coil. Then, it appears you can get a long way by mainly considering the geometry of the coil and consider it more like an antenna/wave guide where you match circumference, etc. to the wavelengths you are working with.

It appears that all you need is a correction factor of 0.9 - 0.95 to account for the slower propagation speed of waves trough metal when compared to air / emtpy space.
at some pont it will appear capacitive and just like at some point a 2 inch straight wire will appear inductive.

well there you are, nothing has been done conclusively on any of these matters. everyone stops short. I am guessing those are the experiemntors private findings that they dont want to share with us. Maybe for good reason
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2012, 12:08 AM
wyndbag wyndbag is offline
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Ok so Kokomoj0 has profiled me and its probably true.... but just because my brain is a little on the soft side, I do have thoughts questions and possible ideas to float. Here is one I have not heard of yet but perhaps someone here has:

it seems like a great deal of time and energy is spent building things that pretty much do what all the other coil builders are doing, some better than others of course, but pretty much the same.

It seems to me that utilizing for instance single a high voltage power supply makes the whole process hit or miss. Why not utilize a regulated high voltage power supply off an old x-ray machine. That way the power can be tuned via the controls on the machine which typically controls the output as KV and MA. That way tuning can take place from the input as well as the output side. Anyone tried this?
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Old 04-03-2012, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by wyndbag View Post
Ok so Kokomoj0 has profiled me and its probably true.... but just because my brain is a little on the soft side, I do have thoughts questions and possible ideas to float. Here is one I have not heard of yet but perhaps someone here has:

it seems like a great deal of time and energy is spent building things that pretty much do what all the other coil builders are doing, some better than others of course, but pretty much the same.

It seems to me that utilizing for instance single a high voltage power supply makes the whole process hit or miss. Why not utilize a regulated high voltage power supply off an old x-ray machine. That way the power can be tuned via the controls on the machine which typically controls the output as KV and MA. That way tuning can take place from the input as well as the output side. Anyone tried this?
Not sure about the power supply being a problem. the net result here is to duplicate the longitudinal wave of dielectric. With a network of working coils we could then transmit and receive between sets proving that C is not a limit.

There is also the curious factor of reducing the magnetic field to where it is no longer an impedance in the circuit. When considering the finite velocity of propagation of the electric field, self-inductance thus is not wattless, but contains an energy component, and so can be represented by an impedance.

in simple terms its rotating the vectors to where they are in parallel and then you'll have a wave propagation velocity that not only exceeds C but would not have the losses, leakages or impedance of current designs. That opens the door to many interesting things, "lightning in a bottle".
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2012, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by wyndbag View Post
Ok so Kokomoj0 has profiled me and its probably true.... but just because my brain is a little on the soft side, I do have thoughts questions and possible ideas to float. Here is one I have not heard of yet but perhaps someone here has:

it seems like a great deal of time and energy is spent building things that pretty much do what all the other coil builders are doing, some better than others of course, but pretty much the same.

It seems to me that utilizing for instance single a high voltage power supply makes the whole process hit or miss. Why not utilize a regulated high voltage power supply off an old x-ray machine. That way the power can be tuned via the controls on the machine which typically controls the output as KV and MA. That way tuning can take place from the input as well as the output side. Anyone tried this?
nope that was a shot over Dollards bow who appears to be starting to take this seriously into left field. Log periodic antennas for petes sake have nothing "directly" in common with TMT unless you want to say you can use math in both cases.

Never in a million years did I think I would be forced to say something like that.
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Old 04-03-2012, 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Kokomoj0 View Post
Now if you look above we have Dollard telling us to build a log periodic antenna as if that has anything what so ever to do with the TMT.

Of course it would have worked good for tv and receiving hertzian waves.
You should really read "The Camp David Antenna" post by T-Rex for a second time providing that you actually read it the first go around. He is describing an ALEXANDERSON NETWORK based on a log-periodic design. He never claims that the TMT had anything to do with that particular antenna.

By the way, the C.E.R.N. faster than light experiments didn't make you question the Theory of Relativity?

Dave

Last edited by Web000x : 04-03-2012 at 02:57 AM.
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Web000x View Post
You should really read "The Camp David Antenna" post by T-Rex for a second time providing that you actually read it the first go around. He is describing an ALEXANDERSON NETWORK based on a log-periodic design. He never claims that the TMT had anything to do with that particular antenna.

By the way, the C.E.R.N. faster than light experiments didn't make you question the Theory of Relativity?

Dave
Wait I thought the camp David antenna had a direct correlation to the TMT? In terms of each components function.
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:39 AM
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Wait I thought the camp David antenna had a direct correlation to the TMT? In terms of each components function.
All I am saying is that the Bolinas Antenna is not the TMT. Yes, it will have similar operating principles when in the LMD wave resonant condition. All Eric is pointing out is another way to achieve LMD transmission via a different style antenna which happens to be a broadband T.E.M. compatible antenna as well as a single frequency L.M.D. compatible antenna.
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Old 04-03-2012, 04:35 AM
garrettm4 garrettm4 is offline
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Engended Fields about a Solenoid with respect to Longitudinal and Transvers Relations

Forewarning, what you are about to read is HIGHLY theoretical and may contain numerous errors, read at your own risk.

Lamare,

I disagree with a few things you have written recently regarding the dielectric and magnetic propagations alongst a solenoid, with special reference and application to a Tesla Transformer. While at the moment, neither of us can empirically prove our “personal understandings” and undoubtedly, we will both think our own opinions and references are the most correct, I thought I would still give my opinion as to the discrepancies I feel are present in your descriptions.

Problem #1:

Quote:
Since the longitudinal wave travels along the length of the coil, it does not "see" the inductance of the windings. It propagates from one winding to the next by means of the tiny capacitors that exist between the coil wires.
MK; BOTH of the mutual inductions of the dielectric and MAGNEITIC fields travel normal to the wire or in-between the turns of the solenoid, this is seen as the length or height of the coil depending upon how you look at it. The individual self-capacities (C_s) as seen between any two turns, add to become the mutual capacity K, as seen from end-to-end of the coil. What you have avoided in bringing up is the MUTUAL INDUCTION of EACH TURN from the MAGNETIC FIELD, or MUTUAL INDUCTANCE M. I can’t quite grasp your phobia of the magnetic field and your never-ending efforts to avoid its calculation. It will always have some level of significance whether we want it to or not, so it’s best to not avoid it, and instead just accept it and attempt to gain new insight into its operations.

Let’s go back and re-read what Mr. Dollard has written on this very subject:

Quote:
Continuing with the four energy co-efficients:

LC, this gives the space scalar frequencies of oscillation, having no distribution in space, only in time (dot product)

MK, this gives the "Tesla Vector" normal to the coil windings, a counter-velocity in per centimeters per second. (axial product)

Also,

L/K this gives the clockwise "Poynting Vector" around the circumference of the coil windings, a velocity in centimeters per second (cross product)

C/M, this gives the counter-clockwise "Poynting Vector" around the circumference of the coil windings, a velocity in centimeters per second (cross product)
It would seem Mr. Dollard takes into account BOTH of the magnetic inductions produced in the solenoids operation, not only that he also brings up the flow of energy of the Electric Field. My current, and lacking understanding, is that the TEM ELECTRIC FIELD is indeed the Poynting vector S. TO BE ABLE TO CANCEL THE TEM COMPONENT WE NEED BOTH INDUCTIONS OF THE MAGNETIC FIELD, this can be seen if you re-read the above quote very closely. WITHOUT THE (counter rotating) TE (C/M) & TM (L/K) WAVES "CANCELING" ONE ANOTHER (becoming a zero-vector), the counter rotating Poynting vectors of the Electric Field (the individual TEM components of the Electric Field), we will NEVER get PURE LONGITUDINAL OPERATION.

Problem #2:

Quote:
And one of the first things you have to let go is the idea that the inductance or overall self capacitance of a coil is of any use. At frequencies above the self-resonance frequency of a coil, these are totally useless.
There are FOUR co-efficients when dealing with a solenoid as seen in the afore mentioned Dollard quote.

#1) The “self-capacity” of the solenoid is of a distributed nature and from end-to-end is similar to but NOT a normal self-capacity; it is a Mutual-Capacity (K) and can be seen as a TRANSFER COEFFIENT and constitutes a reactance, (in this circumstance it is a longitudinal flow of dielectric energy).

#2) The “self-inductance” is also of a distributed nature and the COUPLING between turns causes a Mutual Magnetic Induction (M) or TRANSFER OF ENERGY between windings and constitutes a suceptance, (in this circumstance it is a longitudinal flow of magnetic energy).

#3) The UNCOUPLED ENERGY IS THE LEAKAGE INDUCTANCE (L), this is a STORAGE COMPONENT and constitutes a reactance, (in this circumstance it is transverse flow of magnetic energy).

#4) Finally we have the Leakage Capacitance (C) to ground, here the whole wire is seen as a “cylindrical capacitor plate” and the earth as the other “capacitor plate” this is seen as a STORAGE COMPONENT and constitutes a suceptance, (in this circumstance it is a transverse flow of dielectric energy).

With that covered let’s take a look at another quote from Mr. Dollard:

Quote:
L/K = C/M

The T.E.M. component vanishes and the "Poynting Vectors" cancel out. The resistance of the coil also cancels out giving rise to a very great magnification factor, as well as a pure longitudinal wave, a "Tesla Coil".
Well sir, it would seem the "magic" happens when the QUOTIENT of the REACTANCES (from L & K) EQUAL the QUOTIENT of the SUSCEPTANCES (from C & M). This is quite PROFOUND (much meditation needs to be done on this concept). If you really look at what’s going on here WE NEED MR MAGNETISM because without him we can't make the REQUIRED situation TRUE, if we want to listen to Mr. Dollard, we have to actually contemplate what he has given us. To me it would seem magnetism is NOT the GREAT EVIL that everyone makes it out to be. What we want to do is CANCEL (or create a zero-vector of) the TEM portion of the ELECTRIC FIELD. If the Electric Field is the product of phi the magnetic and psi the dielectric, it would seem we can get ATLEAST TWO different MODES or PORTIONS of the Electric Field. What I find the most interesting is that in the LONGITUDINAL MAGNETO-DIELECTRIC MODE, we have the Electric Field, the Dielectric Field and the Magnetic Field ALL ON THE SAME AXIS (in the TEM case all three are on different axes). This may very well be the reason we only need to use one wire.

I don't think we need any smoke or mirrors to understand the Longitudinal flow of energy. M and K are transfer coefficients (longitudinal) L and C are storage coefficients (transverse), its that simple. If L & K are seen as reactances and C & M are suceptances then a zero-vector sum of the reactances is a form of series resonance. Correspondingly the zero-vector sum of the suceptances is a form of parallel resonance. IF BOTH THE PARALLEL AND SERIES RESONANCES ARE EQUAL WE HAVE NO TRANSVERSE ELECTRO-MAGNETIC ENERGY, this is the "QUADRA-POLAR RESONANCE" (or so I believe it to be). The two counter rotating Poynting vectors create a ZERO-VECTOR, in this condition the MK portion is now free of the transverse wave interaction, the wave factor gamma has zero transverse component.

We have journeyed long and hard through the "rabbit hole" and now find our selves in the center of the earth, a place few ever see and fewer live to tell the tale. Will we be able to make it back topside with our new-found insight?

Once again, the contents of this post are highly theoretical and subject to error so don't take everything as being exact, instead think of it as an alternative view or possible solution.

Garrett M

Last edited by garrettm4 : 04-04-2012 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Web000x View Post
All I am saying is that the Bolinas Antenna is not the TMT. Yes, it will have similar operating principles when in the LMD wave resonant condition. All Eric is pointing out is another way to achieve LMD transmission via a different style antenna which happens to be a broadband T.E.M. compatible antenna as well as a single frequency L.M.D. compatible antenna.
Huh?

How do we know for a "fact" that system was LMD?

LMD to the best of my knowledge is highly speculative, so how can we presume its a fact?

Now that antenna probly did nice telluric transmission but then so does california power and light @ 60 hz TEM.

How do we get a log periodic design resonate at one freq anyway?
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:17 AM
garrettm4 garrettm4 is offline
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T-Rex Re-post

This "transmission" by Mr. Dollard (originally two parts on the moon bounce thread) is one of the MOST IMPORTANT regarding the analysis of the Tesla Transformer (or ANY coil). I though it appropriate to re-post it here on the new thread for everyone's convenience:

Quote:
When considering waves on coiled windings, leave out the electrons, let us forget them once and for all. They are for electronic devices (RG) NOT for electrical devices (LC). Forget the electrons, forget it!

It is generally considered that any wave must consist of a conjugate pair of energies, magnetic and dielectric let's say. Only then an interaction between time and space is possible. As I have shown recently it is through the union of a conjugate pair (L and C) that the dimension of time is produced. The propagation constant is then equal to:

(1) Negative Gamma Square

Having a pair of imaginary roots, plus j Gamma and minus j Gamma

It is however that the JJ Thompson Longitudinal Dielectric Motions cannot have a periodic solution, there is one energy only, dielectric. This needs to be resolved.

There are four distinct forms of energy stored in a winding,
Magnetic Pair:

L, Leakage Inductance, Henry
M, Mutual Inductance, per Henry

Dielectric Pair:

C, Leakage Capacitance, Farad
K, Mutual Capacitance, per Farad

The Magnetic Distribution along the coil axis is given by

(2) Epsilon to the square root of LM power. It is an exponential curve along the axis.

The Dielectric Distribution along the coil axis is given by

(3) Epsilon to the square root of CK power. It too is an exponential curve along the axis.

LM an CK are time scalars hence it can be seen that these initial distributions at t = 0 give rise to complex energy exchanges because of the exponential space distributions. We have now a fourth order differential in space and time. Alice lands in Wonderland. Forget Maxwell, forget the Corums, dead ends, forget them once and for all!!

Continuing with the four energy co-efficients:

LC, this gives the space scalar frequencies of oscillation, having no distribution in space, only in time (dot product)

MK, this gives the "Tesla Vector" normal to the coil windings, a counter-velocity in per centimeters per second. (axial product)

Also,

L/K this gives the clockwise "Poynting Vector" around the circumference of the coil windings, a velocity in centimeters per second (cross product)

C/M, this gives the counter-clockwise "Poynting Vector" around the circumference of the coil windings, a velocity in centimeters per second (cross product)

(4) Hence (LC + MK(k^2)) + k(L/K - C/M)

(5) a +kb

The Heaviside relation for the dimension of space. For the condition of balance,

(6) L/K = C/M

The T.E.M. component vanishes and the "Poynting Vectors" cancel out. The resistance of the coil also cancels out giving rise to a very great magnification factor, as well as a pure longitudinal wave, a "Tesla Coil".

Forget the Corums, the Bewelly-Dollard Theory has made them obsolete. Also it is my own belief that we have outgrown Maxwell. The path started by Tesla, Through Steinmetz and Alexanderson, to L.V. Bewelly has taken us far beyond the primordial physics interpretation of J.C. Maxwell. Leyden Jars and scales have grown to giant substation transformers and high speed oscilloscopes. We are entering a brave new world of electricity, electricity without electrons.
Garrett M

Last edited by garrettm4 : 04-03-2012 at 05:23 AM.
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:25 AM
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Garrett, that's about the sum of it. I'm a bit tired so I haven't cross checked it with a fine comb but here's some supportive text by Steinmetz

-perhaps with the only exception of
low-resistance circuits containing large magnetic reactance,
and large condensance in series with each other, so as to
produce resonance effects of these higher harmonics.

Page 10 of AC phenomena.

The Radio engineers book is a decent read however I found it lacking in sufficient mathematical detail of Kennly and Steinmetz. To many one size fits all charts and quick look ups, fine for broad tuning of known variables but not helpful for this new type of design.

coil inductance is usually treated as sheet value which simplifies greatly whats occurring.Thankfully Steinmetz gets right into the meat and potatoes of series capacitance and inductance of transmission lines, the tasking part is going thru the books 'thousands of pages' as we know and gleaning out the needed calculations and relations.
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Web000x View Post
You should really read "The Camp David Antenna" post by T-Rex for a second time providing that you actually read it the first go around. He is describing an ALEXANDERSON NETWORK based on a log-periodic design. He never claims that the TMT had anything to do with that particular antenna.

By the way, the C.E.R.N. faster than light experiments didn't make you question the Theory of Relativity?

Dave
There is a much better experiment than that actually correcting the morley michelson interferometer tests that were done by them that makes one question the theory of relativity, however that does not at the same time magically validate LMD.

Well maybe this is QST antenna design 101 thread, my mistake, my bad, I thought were all here to get demystified and get a clue on how to build a functional TMT from the presumed resident expert who talks about going backwards in time.

That doesnt make you question LMD?
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Kokomoj0 View Post
do you have a "working" demonstration of this?
I am working on it:
Who performs the first longitudinal Moon-Bounce in history?


Quote:
what exactly is "longitudinal resonance" as you are using it here? what is the media for this resonance exactly?

How does dielectricity move without forming current?

How does a current form without an associated magnetic field?

Longitudinal resonance is a form of energy that is electrostatic (or dieletric) in nature. It is associated with a translational movement of the aether, while magnetism is associated with a rotational movement of the aether.

Current is associated with the movement of particles, which are itself some kind of localized electromagnetic waves, that may look something like this:






However, the aether itself can also flow, which is what it does all the time. Like the vortex/spiral like movements that enable particles to exist.

So, dielectric waves can move without the need for particles to move around, because it involves movements of the aether itself. And that flow, which is NOT a "mass" or "particle" based current, can flow without an associated magnetic field.

And that is what is missing in our current theories.


Quote:
That is not going faster than the speed of light but only having another path to follow by mutual inductance conductance insert whatever.
The end result is that the wave propagates faster than the speed of light, exactly because the stuff that moves moves in a straight line, instead of in a spiral. Imagine the difference between a drunk bicycle rider and one that rides in a straight line. The drunk driver does not cover as much distance effectively, because he takes all these detours.

And that is what light and particles do, which is why they move slower than the sober longitudinal dielectric wave.

Interestingly, Wheatstone already measured the propagation speed of electrostatic waves along a wire back in 1834:

http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Reference_Mat...ic%20Light.pdf


Quote:
This estimated velocity is on the supposition that the electricity passes from one end of the wire to the other: if, however, the two fluids in one theory, or the disturbances of equilibrium in the other, travel simultaneously from the two ends of the wire, the two external sparks will keep their relative positions, the middle one will be alone deflected, and the velocity measured will be only half that in the former case, viz. 288,000 miles in a second.
That is 288,000/186,282 = 1.54 times the speed of light in vacuum. Damn close to the theoretical pi/2 or 1.57..
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by garrettm4 View Post
Forewarning, what you are about to read is HIGHLY theoretical and may contain numerous errors, read at your own risk.

Lamare,

I disagree with a few things you have written recently regarding the dielectric and magnetic propagations alongst a solenoid, with special reference and application to a Tesla Transformer. While at the moment, neither of us can empirically prove our “personal understandings” and undoubtedly, we will both think our own opinions and references are the most correct, I thought I would still give my opinion as to the discrepancies I feel are present in your descriptions.

IMHO, you are missing the most important detail in Eric's post:

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Originally Posted by T-rex View Post
It is however that the JJ Thompson Longitudinal Dielectric Motions cannot have a periodic solution, there is one energy only, dielectric. This needs to be resolved.
It is _that_ problem that I am talking about and trying to resolve...

As far as I can tell, ALL theories considering the magnetic field a fundamental property of the aether and consider it to be required for longitudinal wave propagations are flawed.

I went into this a few days ago:
Peter, whatever happened with Eric P. Dollard?



Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex View Post
(6) L/K = C/M
The T.E.M. component vanishes and the "Poynting Vectors" cancel out. The resistance of the coil also cancels out giving rise to a very great magnification factor, as well as a pure longitudinal wave, a "Tesla Coil".
Quote:
Originally Posted by garrettm4 View Post
Well sir, it would seem the "magic" happens when the QUOTIENT of the REACTANCES (from L & K) EQUAL the QUOTIENT of the SUSCEPTANCES (from C & M). This is quite PROFOUND (much meditation needs to be done on this concept). If you really look at what’s going on here WE NEED MR MAGNETISM because without him we can't make the REQUIRED situation TRUE, if we want to listen to Mr. Dollard, we have to actually contemplate what he has given us. To me it would seem magnetism is NOT the GREAT EVIL that everyone makes it out to be. What we want to do is CANCEL (or create a zero-vector of) the TEM portion of the ELECTRIC FIELD. If the Electric Field is the product of phi the magnetic and psi the dielectric, it would seem we can get ATLEAST TWO different MODES or PORTIONS of the Electric Field. What I find the most interesting is that in the LONGITUDINAL MAGNETO-DIELECTRIC MODE, we have the Electric Field, the Dielectric Field and the Magnetic Field ALL ON THE SAME AXIS (in the TEM case all three are on different axes). This may very well be the reason we only need to use one wire.

I don't think we need any smoke or mirrors to understand the Longitudinal flow of energy. M and K are transfer coefficients (longitudinal) L and C are storage coefficients (transverse), its that simple. If L & K are seen as reactances and C & M are suceptances then a zero-vector sum of the reactances is a form of series resonance. Correspondingly the zero-vector sum of the suceptances is a form of parallel resonance. IF BOTH THE PARALLEL AND SERIES RESONANCES ARE EQUAL WE HAVE NO TRANSVERSE ELECTRO-MAGNETIC ENERGY, this is the "QUADRA-POLAR RESONANCE" (or so I believe it to be). The two counter rotating Poynting vectors create a ZERO-VECTOR, in this condition the MK portion is now free of the transverse wave interaction, the wave factor gamma has zero transverse component.

The electric field does not have a TEM portion. You have the electric or dielectric field E and the magnetic field B, H or M.

When you cancel the TEM component, you ARE cancelling the magnetic component. And _that_ is exactly what is so interesting about a coil. You _can_ cancel the magnetic field with it, under certain conditions. So, these theories can give you the conditions how to create your longitudinal wave.

However, the resulting wave that is being transmitted under these conditions does not have a magnetic component and that is the part we have trouble describing, because for waves to be able to propagate you do need a pair of two conjugate energies.

And rotational magnetism is not one of these at the fundamental level and we have no way yet to describe these, even though they are probably related to magnetism. With magnetism you have some kind of momentum that flows in circles. The momentum we are looking for is basically the same, only that it does not flow in circles and therefore is not properly described in our models.
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Old 04-03-2012, 02:01 PM
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Huh?

How do we know for a "fact" that system was LMD?

LMD to the best of my knowledge is highly speculative, so how can we presume its a fact?

Now that antenna probly did nice telluric transmission but then so does california power and light @ 60 hz TEM.

How do we get a log periodic design resonate at one freq anyway?
All of the engineering formulas were given. You will know if you stop talking about it and go build it. You will have much more credibility in your arguments if you have DATA from actually trying.

You will know it is LMD if the inverse square law of distance begins to break down.
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by lamare View Post
However, the resulting wave that is being transmitted under these conditions does not have a magnetic component and that is the part we have trouble describing, because for waves to be able to propagate you do need a pair of two conjugate energies.

And rotational magnetism is not one of these at the fundamental level and we have no way yet to describe these, even though they are probably related to magnetism. With magnetism you have some kind of momentum that flows in circles. The momentum we are looking for is basically the same, only that it does not flow in circles and therefore is not properly described in our models.
From what I can see within the mathematical models is that the propagation is not thru the medium of our dimensional space. This is the why of Pi/2 velocity, hertzian waves travel thru our dimensional space. It may be that in order to move thru 'ether' the B field is in conjugate to E field, in a stressed dielectric where the fields are all parallel then instead of propogating the field thru the ether it's a door into the dielectric, aka the scifi 'wormhole'. the hyperbolic graph tends towards an asymptote or singularity. If this is truely the case it highlights a few issues. You'll always need a pair of 'doors', much like in scifi stories of worm hole gates, you need the other gate to get where you're going. It also means that without the other receiver there is no wave to freely transmit within the ether to bounce off objects, don't stop the moon bounce project based on this assumption though.

It's the mathematical models that are showing this, this is why the inter-winding capacitance and inductance are key and critical to proper tuning. at each point of the dot scalar field between windings there is a reciprocal gate/door and this is where the magic happens. Steinmetz covers this briefly in one of his books as a chain of condensers, reading thru and noting the equations one can see he was also referring to coils, the rare time he's not dealing with transmission lines. I do wish he had more to say, I get the feeling it was a round about way of publishing work he was to keep quiet about.

There is also the frequency factor which is ignored other than skin effect and even then it's misunderstood, get to that in a moment, if you notice in coil calculations for mutual inductance and capacitance between windings there is a simplification to sheet and field and this completely ignores the true relations of what is occurring. voltage potential between windings is far greater then the terminal ends and harmonics from the frequency and wave phase angle due to pitch and dia can be catastrophic to the coil, either very high losses or dielectric 'breakdown' which is exceedingly high potentials that become destructive.

it's that phenomenon that is exploited and controlled. Skin effect and resistance to the conjugate wave is frequency dependent and not entirely logarithmic but seems to have two curves. if the depth of the wire is too close to the skin depth for that frequency the induced thermal gradient will destroy the conductor, other than a weight penalty a solid vs hollow wire for HF is the same. Now I not touching on the surface area or circumference that factors into inductance and capacitance.

taking a simple example to highlight the parameters, two cylinders that are axial to each other and separated by a distance. the dia of each cylinder needs to be calculated for a given frequency and current and the distance between them. these ratios will effect the inductance and capacitance impedance which will effect the resonant point, a change in the spacing between cylinders will change the capacitance to greater extent then the inductance, whereas a change in the cylinder dia will effect the inductance greater then the capacitance. both of which will effect the resonant point and phase angle of the current to voltage. a greater change to phase angle in the coil diameter, this parameter also effects the inductance and capacitance in about that order of magnitude. adding to the mix is weather there is a ground termination, open end or return end on the terminal as each has its own effect.

It becomes clear that in transmission lines of two wires there is a massive amount of calculations needed to get the desired results with AC frequencies. a coil is so much more complex in terms of geometry and how the field of a dot scalar product is calculated. I'm not sure how many of those parameters hold true when the line is looped into coil or if there is a translation.

The math is difficult because the math in the first place is an imaginary construct of a net physical phenomenon. There simply has been no real civilian movement in the area of research and applied mathematics to this area, yes a few have pushed forward and made insights and some gains, I think though that most people don't comprehend the enormity of work that still needs to be done, mathematical models need inventing to produce testable theories and avoid blind research. Tesla experimented a lot, however unlike Edison Tesla understood the need for a mathematical approach to research. Steinmetz welded a pen and intellect that thankfully put down volumes of work that applied engineering can start from, Kennelly utilized Steinmetz work greatly in his applied calculations as did many others each to there own extent.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2012, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Kokomoj0 View Post
Huh?

How do we know for a "fact" that system was LMD?

LMD to the best of my knowledge is highly speculative, so how can we presume its a fact?

Now that antenna probly did nice telluric transmission but then so does california power and light @ 60 hz TEM.

How do we get a log periodic design resonate at one freq anyway?
Actually, LMD waves are well known within Electrical Engineering under the name TM waves. You can find them in the textbooks explaining wave guides. The LMD wave, Longitudinal Magneto-Dielectric, is the one with a longitudinal (di)electric component and a transverse magnetic component. The electric field and the magnetic field are always perpendicular towards one another in electro-magnetics:

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-rex View Post
From Radio Engineers Handbook:




Characteristic for the "pure" longitudinal dielectric wave that is possible and can be achieved by cancelling the magnetic (or TEM) component is the absence of the magnetic component. Hence it's name longitudinal dielectric wave. There is no M, because there is no magnetic.

Don't confuse these two longitudinal (di)electric waves. There is one with a magnetic component, the LMD or TM(,LE) wave and there is one without magnetic component, the longitudinal dielectic wave, LD.

And the only one capable of propagating with a speed of pi/2 times c is this LD wave. The other one still has this rotational component whereby you have this union of the dielectric and magnetic fields and therefore it propagates at the speed of light, because of the detour the aether has to make in order to support the magnetic field.

Update:

And that has it's consequences for the design of a Tesla transmitter, such as I attempt to construct for my moon-bounce experiment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamare View Post
It seems to me now that we have an LMD or TM wave propagating between the lower terminal of the extra coil and the ground plane, which propagates at the speed of light.

The purpose of the extra coil is to convert this TM wave into an LD wave, propagating at pi/2 times c. So, what this system does is to transform electromagnetic energy into pure dielectric energy.

This means for the design of the system that we have to calculate with a propagation speed of c for all components except for the extra coil.

Last edited by lamare : 04-03-2012 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:09 PM
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@Garrett4m, Eric is really pissed that you took your posts down. Whether they be right or wrong (more towards right), they were really helping take the load off of him. We are all learning here so don't be afraid to share your learning experience publicly.

@Geometric Algebra, you posted a Steinmetz article where he talks about 1000 electrons (J.J. Thompson termed Corpuscles) in a hydrogen atom. Where did that article go?
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
From what I can see within the mathematical models is that the propagation is not thru the medium of our dimensional space. This is the why of Pi/2 velocity, hertzian waves travel thru our dimensional space. It may be that in order to move thru 'ether' the B field is in conjugate to E field, in a stressed dielectric where the fields are all parallel then instead of propogating the field thru the ether it's a door into the dielectric, aka the scifi 'wormhole'. the hyperbolic graph tends towards an asymptote or singularity. If this is truely the case it highlights a few issues. You'll always need a pair of 'doors', much like in scifi stories of worm hole gates, you need the other gate to get where you're going. It also means that without the other receiver there is no wave to freely transmit within the ether to bounce off objects, don't stop the moon bounce project based on this assumption though.
All the old-timers considered the existence of a medium with fluid/gas like properties as the basis for physics.

Where it went wrong is with the separation of the electric and the magnetic fields. They are considered to be two separate kinds of energy that have some kind of magic interconnection, while they propagate trough one and the same fluid. And then we also consider gravity as something completely different, while that is also propagating trough one and the same fluid AND we KNOW that particles ARE some kind of EM waves from the well established wave-particle duality principle.

And of course you can describe all these phenomena in various ways mathematically, meanwhile maintaining the illusion they are separate phenomena that interact with one another in mysterious ways, all the while KNOWING there is ONLY ONE AETHER, and its a fluid!!

To give you an analogy to what we are doing with electro-magnetics is to consider physics to consist of the analogy of spinning gyroscopes, where we consider the mass in the shape of the electric field as a separate phenomenon from it's rotation in the shape of the magnetic field.

And because of that, we have no way to describe the equivalent of non-rotating masses, particles or fluid movements. And that is why we have no way of describing pure longitudinal waves, because it is the electrical analogy of a non-rotating moving mass/fluid.
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by lamare View Post
All the old-timers considered the existence of a medium with fluid/gas like properties as the basis for physics.

Where it went wrong is with the separation of the electric and the magnetic fields. They are considered to be two separate kinds of energy that have some kind of magic interconnection, while they propagate trough one and the same fluid. And then we also consider gravity as something completely different, while that is also propagating trough one and the same fluid AND we KNOW that particles ARE some kind of EM waves from the well established wave-particle duality principle.

And of course you can describe all these phenomena in various ways mathematically, meanwhile maintaining the illusion they are separate phenomena that interact with one another in mysterious ways, all the while KNOWING there is ONLY ONE AETHER, and its a fluid!!

To give you an analogy to what we are doing with electro-magnetics is to consider physics to consist of the analogy of spinning gyroscopes, where we consider the mass in the shape of the electric field as a separate phenomenon from it's rotation in the shape of the magnetic field.

And because of that, we have no way to describe the equivalent of non-rotating masses, particles or fluid movements. And that is why we have no way of describing pure longitudinal waves, because it is the electrical analogy of a non-rotating moving mass/fluid.
In reference to a 'signal bounce' I'm trying to resolve how this is going to occur. In a transverse wave the conjugate pairs 'radiate' in a spherical front because they are conjugate perpendicular pairs, in the case of a longitudinal form the fields are all parallel the incident theta is 0*, no radiation. off set the phase to a small fraction of 1* and that may net the needed radiation. given that it is impossible to physically construct a perfect coil such that all the fields are parallel there is going to be a phase shift where an incident angle of the H field approaches 0*.

since it's a rotation in counter-space it resolves as a reduction in scalar in space, so the field reduces to a singularity in a perfect case. measuring a faster then light wave with very little incident angle is going to be difficult as the wave needs a 'guide' the reduction of the B field to a singularity resolves the magneto-dielectric to a pure dielectric wave. This is where the need for a pair is, the wave is no longer periodic in space but in counter-space, a RX would pick this up instantly anywhere in space. Since it is impossible to build the TX with a perfect singularity of the B field the small incident angle will resolve to a faster than light wave with a very weak B field, this also gets strange as the current is dependent upon the B field time delta, with a singularity of the B field that is at resonance there is no current or periodicity.

I think this is what Eric is talking about in reference to a periodic solution for the longitudinal wave.

This is sloooooooow work, each time I go back over the books of Stiemetz, Thompson, etc.. there is new insight and more questions raised. I've been using the coil calcs of Erics to do calculations and integrals for the various fields and rotations, it nets some interesting answers at times. As it's being done dynamically as possible I can sweep thru Fq's to see what happens. A lot more calcs needed before I can utilize it for power transmission calculations.
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:53 PM
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Capacitance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamare View Post
All the old-timers considered the existence of a medium with fluid/gas like properties as the basis for physics.

Where it went wrong is with the separation of the electric and the magnetic fields. They are considered to be two separate kinds of energy that have some kind of magic interconnection, while they propagate trough one and the same fluid. And then we also consider gravity as something completely different, while that is also propagating trough one and the same fluid AND we KNOW that particles ARE some kind of EM waves from the well established wave-particle duality principle.

And of course you can describe all these phenomena in various ways mathematically, meanwhile maintaining the illusion they are separate phenomena that interact with one another in mysterious ways, all the while KNOWING there is ONLY ONE AETHER, and its a fluid!!

To give you an analogy to what we are doing with electro-magnetics is to consider physics to consist of the analogy of spinning gyroscopes, where we consider the mass in the shape of the electric field as a separate phenomenon from it's rotation in the shape of the magnetic field.

And because of that, we have no way to describe the equivalent of non-rotating masses, particles or fluid movements. And that is why we have no way of describing pure longitudinal waves, because it is the electrical analogy of a non-rotating moving mass/fluid.
Lamare,
What do you think happens to the aeither between two charged capacitor plates in a total vacuume? (i.e. densified, rareified, polarized,etc)
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:05 PM
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since it's a rotation in counter-space it resolves as a reduction in scalar in space, so the field reduces to a singularity in a perfect case. measuring a faster then light wave with very little incident angle is going to be difficult as the wave needs a 'guide' the reduction of the B field to a singularity resolves the magneto-dielectric to a pure dielectric wave. This is where the need for a pair is, the wave is no longer periodic in space but in counter-space, a RX would pick this up instantly anywhere in space. Since it is impossible to build the TX with a perfect singularity of the B field the small incident angle will resolve to a faster than light wave with a very weak B field, this also gets strange as the current is dependent upon the B field time delta, with a singularity of the B field that is at resonance there is no current or periodicity.

[...]

I think this is what Eric is talking about in reference to a periodic solution for the longitudinal wave.
First of all, the periodic solution Eric is talking about is most important in what is known as the far field, the situation further away than about 1 wavelength from the antenna or resonating coil. In that situation, there is no magnetic field and that you cannot describe with our current theory.

However, in the near field, in the vicinity of the object under study, you do have magnetic fields, if only because the particles your material consists of emit magnetic fields.

Furthermore, with waves you have the superposition principle. Which means you do not have to have zero currents in your material nor do you have to have a singularity. The only requirement there is, is that the currents flow in such a way that the resulting magnetic fields cancel one another out at some distance of where the currents are flowing.

I posted this a while ago:

Who performs the first longitudinal Moon-Bounce in history?


Quote:
Let's look a bit deeper into resonating coils. As I stated before, Stifflers circuit resonates a coil at a multiple of its natural ground resonance frequency. Since the coil windings have a parasite capacitance towards one another, part of the electric energy, which is a wave, travels across these capacitances.

Usually, these parasite capacitors are only considered as a whole in order to calculate the natural ground resonance frequency of a coil. But they are very significant when we want to understand what happens with Stifflers circuit, the Joule Thief, Stanley Meyers stuff and all other resonating free energy coil systems.

I have been thinking about this for quite a while, but up to yesterday, I never understood what is actually happening inside a coil and wondered wether or not you could get the same effect by putting a bunch of caps in series and put those in resonance.

Then I realised that a coil wire is round and that the current, the electrons, actually travel across the surface of a wire. If we only consider the longitudinal component of the resonating waves along a coil, we are looking into the electrical wave traveling along the coil, perpendicular to the coil wires. In other words: we consider an electrical component that travels perpendicular to what we usually consider the direction of the currents going trough the wire.

I made some sketches which I have attached. The first page is just a rough sketch with some notes illustrating my line of thinking, but not much more.

If you take a look at the second pge, you see at the top-left two parts of coil windings, with at the top-right a model made up of capacitors, which is how you would usually think about these kind of things. If we consider the wire in the model connecting the different capacitors, and consider a current going trough there, you will have a magnetic field H curling around the wire.

However, the real parasite capacitors at the surface of coil wires are not at all connected to one another with straight wires. It’s a round surface, so the electrons will make curves, spirals, moving between the “capacitor plates”. So, you won’t get a H field curling around, but you will get an H field in parallel with the coil wires!

When I made this second page, I assumed there would be a resulting current spiraling around the surface of the wire. Then I realised that there is actually no reason to assume this spiralling current to have any preference for a particular direction. In other words: half of the electrons traveling between the capacitor plates will go in one direction, the other half will go in the other direction. And that is very interesting, since we now have an electric field propagating between the coil windings, *without* a resulting magnetic field!!!

And, if there’s no magnetic component, there’s no Poynting vector, and therefore no radiation of energy…

Very interesting, because this might give us some hints on how to make signal guides for longitudinal electric waves. One tends to think in the direction of putting several isolated wires in a row. Then, you would have the capacitive coupling to propagate the energy, while the spiralling currents prevent any magnetic component to spring up and radiate our precious energy away into outer space……

The sketches, page 2:


Conclusion: The longitudinal component of the wave across coil windings has the magnetic field component H in parallel with the wire, while the current moves perpendicular to the coil wire, across the surface. In order words: when f goes to infinity, the external supplied current goes to zero.

Page 3:


There is no reason to assume there is a difference between I_l and I_r. Probably 50% of the electrons go left, 50% go richt. So, H_left == H_right. Or: H_result == 0.

Conclusion: Because of the shape of the coil wires, a pure electrical wave is possible, without magnetic component and without et electrical current to feed in from the outside.

Also see: The L.M.D./T.E.M.Test
Now this may not be completely accurate, since in Eric's view we should forget about electrons, but it does give some insight in that with coil windings it is possible to have currents (whatever it may be) in such a way that there is no resulting magnetic field, because "currents" flowing along the length direction of coil actually flow across the surface of the conductor, which has a circular shape.

In other words: the currents that do occur because the longitudinal wave propagates along the length direction of the coil are such that the magnetic fields caused by them are cancelled out.


Now the other direction, the currents flowing around the coil, are associated with the normal TEM wave. In the particular case that the circumference of the coil matches 1/2 wavelength, then the fields associated with subsequent windings are 180 degrees out of fase and also cancel one another out.


So, what you are left with is a situation whereby you have a standing transverse wave spiraling around your coil in such a way that the effects caused by these waves at some distance is zero, because the waves cancel one another out. And you have a standing longitudinal wave propagating in the other direction, along the length of the coil, whereby the magnetic field also cancels out, because of the reason I explained above.

So, what you end up with is all kinds of currents flowing in such a way that the magnetic fields cancel one another out at some distance of the place where the currents actually flow.

To make a long story short:

No singularity.
Waves canceling one another out...


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Old 04-03-2012, 08:18 PM
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Actually, LMD waves are well known within Electrical Engineering under the name TM waves. You can find them in the textbooks explaining wave guides. The LMD wave, Longitudinal Magneto-Dielectric, is the one with a longitudinal (di)electric component and a transverse magnetic component. The electric field and the magnetic field are always perpendicular towards one another in electro-magnetics:




Characteristic for the "pure" longitudinal dielectric wave that is possible and can be achieved by cancelling the magnetic (or TEM) component is the absence of the magnetic component. Hence it's name longitudinal dielectric wave. There is no M, because there is no magnetic.

Don't confuse these two longitudinal (di)electric waves. There is one with a magnetic component, the LMD or TM(,LE) wave and there is one without magnetic component, the longitudinal dielectic wave, LD.

And the only one capable of propagating with a speed of pi/2 times c is this LD wave. The other one still has this rotational component whereby you have this union of the dielectric and magnetic fields and therefore it propagates at the speed of light, because of the detour the aether has to make in order to support the magnetic field.

Update:

And that has it's consequences for the design of a Tesla transmitter, such as I attempt to construct for my moon-bounce experiment:
I dont think your pictorials are telling the whole story.

so tm is something other than tem?

how can you have tem modes if you cancel the tem?

again you are presuming the lmd somehow comes into existence and or is proven as a result of the tem mode. I have seen nothing to that effect.

you have yet to explain how an electric field can move in, through, or on anything without its intrinsic magnetic counterpart.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:38 PM
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dR-Green dR-Green is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokomoj0 View Post
Anyway, I mention meyl because regardless he is doing it with under 10 volts sine wave what we cant seem to do with gigantic spark gaps and his is not a 3 coil system, but a 2 coil system.

I agree that his videos do not show farfield but he said in one of his lectures that he tried it in the farfield in the universities. so you tell me? Is he lying?
What can he do that we can't? I don't consider the demonstrations that I've seen being done correctly, so knowing "what" he's supposed to have achieved that we can't would be useful. I've heard him mention "1000% effectiveness"... What does effectiveness mean? He's foreign so does he actually mean to say effectiveness, or does he mean efficiency? Because they are two different things. People can demonstrate a higher voltage at the receiver with their "normal" setups than there is at the transmitter - is this what effectiveness means? Because that sure doesn't mean 1000% efficiency.

I don't know if he's lying or not, but unless he's transmitting the energy via the earth then I don't believe that his boat would be working at 60 metres from the transmitter. As far as I understand it in the most simple terms, you need one "wire" or connection between both coils. You can bypass having to use an actual costly wire through using the earth, acting as one vast conductor that has no limitation of distance unless you start leaving the ground. So distance is meaningless, because the connecting conductor is everywhere. If you are not using the earth as a conductor, and you don't have a wire between the coils, then there's no way you'll power a motor at the other end. And I propose this is why Meyl needs to have the boat right next to the transmitter, he has overlooked the common conductor part of the whole thing. If he took it further away from the transmitter then it wouldn't do anything. So it looks like he's lying, but I fail to see how he would expect to get away with it, unless no one understands how it's supposed to work. And he's probably making a nice bit of money in the meantime, so... I got "the revelation" through a simple test playing around with an AV plug. I noticed that I could make the LED output in my left hand brighter by extending my right hand nearer to the transmitter, and I could increase the distance of the LED from the transmitter at the same time. Then I thought what if I was to touch the coil with one hand, and had an infinitely long arm holding the load, the distance between source and load wouldn't matter because I'm touching both. Then the principle of the wireless was clear.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:42 PM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Originally Posted by jake View Post
Lamare,
What do you think happens to the aeither between two charged capacitor plates in a total vacuume? (i.e. densified, rareified, polarized,etc)
I think you have a steady state flow of ether from one plate to the other, which actually also flows trough the material itself.

I think that is the case, because asymmetric capacitors can be used to create anti gravity. See this pic for an example of such an asymmetric capacitor in action:


I posted some on that before, with some nice images, etc:
Using Cymatics to visualise electric phenomena?

But let's look at a new page on this:
The "Lifter" Phenomenon

Quote:
All over the world, a strange hobby is gathering force— the making of cheap, lightweight craft of aluminum foil, balsa wood, and thin wire, which "thrust" themselves silently upward in defiance of gravity. The model airplane-type structures, superficially resembling triangular kites, have no wings, propellers, or moving parts. Indoors or out, the craft leap upward against nylon tethers that hold them back from zooming ever higher!

The "power" source for such craft? Nothing more than a ground-based high-voltage power supply (30,000 volts and above)— often scavenged by tinkerers from old computer monitors. The internet-linked hobbyists compete to see how much mass (actually, weight) of payload (now in the several grams range) their "lifters" can carry. They proudly display their new designs and accomplishments in internet images and video clips; consult the several websites referenced to view the videos and the original material.1

Even more amazing about this space-age hobby: There is no clear, generally accepted physics explanation about how these craft work! In electronics terms, they are asymmetrical capacitors (one side or electrode holding more charge than the other) onto which charge has been applied from a DC source. There is an unmistakable force generated that makes these craft experience movement in the direction toward the smaller-sized electrode. The "skeptics," of course, have the usual knee-jerk reaction that this odd phenomenon can be explained very simply. They contend that the craft are simply imparting motion to ionized air molecules and are thus relying on jet thrusting action of propelled mass, i.e. it's just "ion wind." But some (not all) experiments, and all calculations of the "ion wind" explanation that I have seen, find it quite insufficient (by orders of magnitude, depending on the assumptions) to explain the "antigravity" thrusting. Are these lifters then, in part, "reactionless thrusters," or are they manifesting, in part, genuine antigravity effects?
Now according to Stowe, gravity is the gradient or slope of the (di)electric field, which is a mathematical expression of the steepness of the change of the electric field trough space. This image illustrates this:

Gradient - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Quote:
The gradient of the function f(x,y) = −(cos2x + cos2y)2 depicted as a projected vector field on the bottom plane
So, the gradient expresses the amount of change of a mathematical function in a certain area.

Now if gravity is the gradient of the (di)electric field, it thus is associated with the amount of change of the electric field in a certain area. Now if the electric field is akin to the pressure in a fluid, like what the aether is, then we are looking at a very interesting principle.

Now what we have with these asymmetric capacitors is that you have the same amount of charge at the two capacitor "plates", one positive, one negative. But the surface of one of the two plates is much smaller than the other, so you get a difference in aether pressure. And thus in between the capacitor plates, you get a certain amount of change in aether pressure, a gradient.

Now if you manage to make this gradient such that it cancels out or overcomes the natural gradient that is already there and is known as gravity, then the capacitor object starts moving with respect to the aether in the other direction than what it usually does. And that is what we call anti-gravity...

Quote:
Even more amazing about this space-age hobby: There is no clear, generally accepted physics explanation about how these craft work!
Well it may not be generally accepted, but to me it is crystal clear how this stuff works.

It's in essence what we know as the Bernouilli/Venturi effect in the aether, as I posted in the thread on Milkovic' parametric gravity oscillator, to give it a new name:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamare View Post
Gravity is a dynamic force and is very closely related to the electric field. According to the excellent ether theory of Paul Stowe, gravity is the gradient of the electric field. See:

Tuks DrippingPedia : Stowe Personal E Mail

So, gravity is a contracting movement of the ether, which IMHO has very much to do with Bernoulli's principle and the Venturi effect:

Bernoulli's principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Venturi effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, gravity is like a river of ether flowing towards the earth and can therefore be harnassed, just like you can put a peddle wheel in a waterfall to extract energy. You just need a different kind of peddle wheel, and I think Milkovic' pendulum is just that..
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:47 PM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Originally Posted by dR-Green View Post
As far as I understand it in the most simple terms, you need one "wire" or connection between both coils. You can bypass having to use an actual costly wire through using the earth, acting as one vast conductor that has no limitation of distance unless you start leaving the ground. So distance is meaningless, because the connecting conductor is everywhere. If you are not using the earth as a conductor, and you don't have a wire between the coils, then there's no way you'll power a motor at the other end.
You got that 100% correct, bro

Quote:
And I propose this is why Meyl needs to have the boat right next to the transmitter, he has overlooked the common conductor part of the whole thing. If he took it further away from the transmitter then it wouldn't do anything.
He is using the water as the conductor.

That is why he using a boat and not a car on rubber wheels...
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:50 PM
garrettm4 garrettm4 is offline
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"Electric Field E" is NOT "Electric Field Q"

Forewarning, what you are about to read is HIGHLY theoretical, full of personal bias, and is likely to contain numerous errors, read at your own risk.

Lamare,

I don’t wish to create an argument, but I thought I would give a few comments to the reply you gave to my recent post. It is plain to for all to see that we both use different types of analysis and we also rely heavily on different systems of electrical engineering. I get the feeling that you are more of a “physicist”, deeply concerned with material and “immaterial” PARTICLES and “quantum madness”, rather than a “electro-mechanical engineer”, who is deeply concerned with electrical forces, fields & gradients along with mechanical forces and gradients. I would say you’re like a Richard Feynman type “quantum physicist”. I would like to say (if I may be so bold) that I am more of a (lesser) Steinmetz type of engineer. The two distinct logic systems used by both parties are usually not compatible, they overlap on many levels and appear on the “effective level” to be the same, BUT at the “fundamental level” they are vastly different.

I use Inductive-Logic and Functional Thinking when working on a problem, these can lead one to postulate erroneous answers, but for the sake of discussion let’s use them to derive some conclusions as to why we both agree to disagree on the “meat and potatoes” of the Tesla Transformer and the characteristics of Longitudinal Energy.

In the standard “Maxwellian Electrodynamics” as used and taught today, which has been turned into Ensteinian dogma, the “electric field vector” is E (volts per meter), the “magnetic field vector” is H (amperes per meter) and the Poynting vector (electro-magnetic energy) is S (volt-amps per meter square). This is only a SMALL PART of what is going on, there is NO WAY THAT THESE ALONE CAN DESCRIBE PURE LONGITUDINAL ENERGY, (most transverse situations can be described by the above though). Let’s continue this topic further on, after we cover a few pertinent points.

Let’s look at the STEINMETZ POINT OF VIEW. Steinmetz came up with his OWN IDEA OF REALATIVITY and DISCARDED MAXWELL, quite interesting if you ask me. Steinmetz also incorporated large amounts of Heaviside’s work (which had many disagreements with maxwells theory) and developed a new type of engineering perspective of the Electric Circuit and Transmission Lines. Steinmetz had a more advanced (in my opinion) way of looking at things because he was an engineer that ACTUALLY MADE THINGS and ACTUALLY DEALT WITH VERY LARGE POWER SYSTEMS (multi-megawatt). This is something we all take for granted, we each believe a book can teach us everything, well experience cannot be taught via paper, it is something that only blood, sweat, and tears with actual application can produce.

From the portions I have read of his various books, Steinmetz has built his own “sand box” a system of logic and mathematics separate from Maxwell (but does contain some Maxwellian concepts). In this system we have the Electric Field as POWER not Volts per Meter, using the Dollard symbolism it is denoted with Q (which is actually the “electric flux” of the field and does not necessarily denote any one specific vector), where the Poynting vector S denotes the TEM PORTION of the Electric Field Q. The Dielectric Field Psi is denoted with G (that’s right CAPITAL G, lowercase g was for conductance). Dielectric energy isn’t necessarily VOLTS (e, proportion) it can also be AMPERES (I, induction) this is a fundamental point that separates it from the “electric field vector E” used today. Also the Magnetic Field Phi isn’t necessarily AMPERES (i, proportion) it can also be VOLTS (E, induction) once again this is different from “magnetic field vector H” used today. With these differences, we slowly develop the “QUADRA-POLAR” view of electricity starting with Steinmetz’s and carried further with Mr. Dollard with incorporation of the Bewelly transformer theory. This is also where the four distinct co-efficients L, M, K & C come into play.

Now back to the first topic, the orthogonal E, H and S vectors as used today CANNOT describe the WHOLE SITUATION. There are TWO counter ROATATING S vectors. Also, the orthogonal E & H vectors don’t directly represent the Dielectric and Magnetic fields. The USUAL understanding of these vectors ONLY GIVES THE TRANSVERSE portion of whats going on. If the two counter rotating S vectors sum to a Zero-Vector what does it mean to modern “physics”? What does the NON-orthogonal alignment of the E and H vectors mean to modern physics? What does non transverse propagation mean to modern physics? To be honest I don’t know, but it would seem (to me) that we can’t use modern physics to describe these things.

The “Electric Field vector E”, as taught today has little to do with anything Steinmetz or Mr. Dollard have written about, and mostly pertains to the MAXWELLIANS who use it as a voltage gradient (V/M). The "ELECTRIC FIELD Q", as given by Steinmetz and Mr. Dollard, ISN’T JUST TRANSVERSE ENERGY it contains LONGITUDINAL ENERGY as well. The constituent field axes of a Transverse wave are like the corners of a cube each axis is at 90 degrees to one another. This is seen in the directions of the ELECTRIC FIELD (Q) and its constituents the MAGNETIC FIELD (Phi) and DIELECTRIC FIELD (Psi) all being ORTHOGONAL TO ONE ANOTHER. Oppositely, the constituent field axes of a Longitudinal wave are all along ONE AXIS. This is a fundamental point that shouldn’t be over looked.

I am not saying I have an answer to the problem of the non-periodic solution of a “longitudinal dielectric wave” (or the significance of the Electric Field Q when in the pure Longitudinal Mode). What I am saying, is that just as with TEM waves (TE, TM & TEM), THERE IS MORE THAN ONE MODE OF PROPAGATION with longitudinal waves (LD, LM & LMD). The Magnetic Field is present in TWO of the longitudinal modes; only in ONE mode is the longitudinal dielectric field “free” or independent of the (transverse) magnetic field. If your focus is solely on the LD wave, what you say makes more sense, but REMEMBER it ISN’T the only Longitudinal mode of propagation. I wish you luck in your endeavors, and hopefully someone can tidy up the confusion around longitudinal waves WITHOUT involving “quantum madness”, “scalar insanity” or other absurd farces.

Garrett M

Last edited by garrettm4 : 04-06-2012 at 06:35 AM.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:51 PM
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lamare lamare is offline
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Originally Posted by Kokomoj0 View Post
you have yet to explain how an electric field can move in, through, or on anything without its intrinsic magnetic counterpart.
Coulomb's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Coulomb's law states that: "The magnitude of the Electrostatics force of interaction between two point charges is directly proportional to the scalar multiplication of the magnitudes of charges and inversely proportional to the square of the distances between them."
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:02 PM
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madhatter madhatter is offline
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Lamare, the B field is an additive scalar, there is no way to resolve a null field by adding a negative field. The counter-space rotation is a plane shift in space so that the rotation in counter-space will cause the versor to reduce, in hyperbolic form this would be to an asymptote or singularity in space.

Yes I should have clarified the far-field beyond 1 wavelength. I can't see for now how to resolve this as with no B field there is no current propagation. And this may indeed the resultant effect that needs no adjustment. If the receptive receiver of the LM wave translates the wave from LM to TM then it supports the 'gate' or 'door' analogy and still has FTL TX&RX as we've tapped directly into the dielectric for 'communication'. A moving charge even a dielectric charge will induce a current when the impedance is not in parallel, when not in parallel it's manifest in space with a theta greater than 0*.

The term singularity is not the 'black hole' popular take but an infinite term, it's still a mathematical imaginary construct though not a vacuum sucking up space. The B field as I see it based on the mathematics approaches that singularity or infinite term of reduction to ? then since all terms are infinite to each other we are left with a dielectric period that is time invariant, how? this is the troubling part, it can not have a period in counter-space as such a term does not exist -the singularity. however in space the dielectric is in resonance with a standing period. Taking a big leap towards supposition here, it may be that the wave length is reduced to a point as the velocity approaches the infinite term, this would resolve to counter-space again as a plane there.

Until I went over the equations of Steinmetz in regards to alternating waves in detail I was not aware that the sine wave we diagram AC with is never perfect as if it was everything would resolve to = 0, perfect resonance with no harmonics and no movement but infinite potential. being that we can not realistically build such a circuit it's the balance of all those terms that give the desired result or undesired we are after.

here's where I think we diverge in our understanding
the electron, it's an interaction of the field and exists as wave function due to the B field, reducing the B field to a singularity in effect stops the electron from being manifest in space, no longer is there a conjugate present. The rotation is a fundamental effect that translates up, without the B field since it's a counter-space -oh man new thought here, live thinking news this may be the result of the counter-space period that needs explaining. If we treat the space and counter-space form of the dielectric as reciprocal then B field is resolved into counter-space and is how the inverse period factor is arrived at. which would mean the E-field in counter-space may be it's B field. more thought needs to be given on that....

I don't see how we could have the B field nulled and still retain an electron, the B field as calculated is always at a given point and a dot scalar product, rotation of the field to a theta of 0* would result in no field point to be calculated anywhere.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2012, 09:07 PM
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madhatter madhatter is offline
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Originally Posted by lamare View Post
Given that its a time variant property that is a static field description. if the charge was to move a current would be induced, and since the plates of the capacitor are parallel to each other there is a perpendicular B field induced.

this is why geometry is everything.
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