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The Crystal Radio Initiative Proposed by Eric Dollard - who will be the first to prove Tesla right by lighting a 100 watt bulb from an AM radio station through the ground - and disprove Einstein simultaneously?

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  #121  
Old 05-02-2012, 12:11 AM
David G Dawson David G Dawson is offline
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Wish to Correct

Quote:
Originally Posted by jake View Post
I miss the old thread and all the goodies hidden in it.
MadHatter,
You are incorrect and please read the URL I posted as it very clearly states that the 0.637 point is AVERAGE VALUE (Vav) and 0.707 is RMS VALUE (Vrms).
I have been in this game a long time and know what is what.
Please check your facts before responding to anything I have presented.
I don't mind criticism but this is BS!

Jake,
All very well but look at this:
1.557 x 2pi = 9.7829 Mhz and then go look at my drawing as it is the very same 9.7829 Mhz.
1.557 x (pi/2) x4 = 9.7829 Mhz.
All the waveshape drawing that I presented represents is the point at which we are working at with our AM Radio Station signal with respect to a Hertzian 1/4 Wave system.

If you people are not going to listen to an oldtimer with a great deal of experience in OU research, then I will just disappear into the bush just like Eric has done.

One thing I should make note of is the direction of winding.
My Primary and Secondary are both CCW but for some unknown reason I stood on the wrong side whilst winding my first WORKING Extra and wound it CW - opposite.
The new Extra is also wound CCW but does not work or is difficult to get to work and my drawing shows why.

Eric states clearly to wind ALL Coils in the same direction but I may have accidentally stumbled across another discovery which I will prove out on my return.

Not going to sit here working out all the Math problems and for all of you to not understand and discredit.
If you are so blind that you cannot see what I am presenting then I will simply fade into the distance, again like Eric.

What you may not realise is that what is being presented before your very eyes is the entire secret to winding coils like Don Smith and Kapanadze use but nobody knows why they work and all their efforts were/are of an empirical nature.

What Kapanadze is currently using is a split Copper main core and this is his Primary as he is attempting to build as Eric has shown with all the Math that I am fully supporting as shown above and replicates a Tesla Magnifying Transformer (TMT).

What the Kapanadze device now needs is the Secondary and Extra Coils to be wound using the data that I have supplied and we should have our OU device.
The only outstanding question is the direction to wind the Extra Coil and I will clear that up when I return.

I am sorry to be working with people that cannot see the light when it has all been presented before you and very clearly at that with full reference to Eric's theory and in agreement.

Didn't you hear that my Extra Coil WORKED first time using Eric's Math but on the MULTIPLY side and NOT the DIVIDE side - what do you need to see the LIGHT!?

If I am beginning to sound like Eric then you may wake up and realise why, some day.

The information passed on from this 'discovery' even shows clearly that Tesla may have made a mistake with his operating fequency and he chose the wrong side of his 96 Khz base frequency and used the 60 Khz side instead of the 149 Khz side.
This may be why he had tuning problems as his work was of an empirical nature without a solid working Math base which we now have thanks to Eric and some accidental discoveries.
Tesla may also have had technical equipment problems at the higher frequency and why he chose the lower.

WAKE UP!

Smokey
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  #122  
Old 05-02-2012, 12:47 AM
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Thanks Smokey! That's a biggy and I believe I get it now. Please don't take any offense at those who may not yet get it. There are lots of different levels people are at here. BTW you now have your own Folder on my hard drive

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  #123  
Old 05-02-2012, 12:55 AM
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Thanks also for the info on the split copper. Zilano mentioned that also recently and about 2 years ago I came across a video that demonstrated something quite impossible looking with a split copper tube device. I was trying to get more info at the time but some said it was nothing special. Looks like maybe it is after all. I really appreciate your showing the calcs and the coil info too. I should know the calcs being a Ham but I've been out of touch so long with that it's good to see it here again as it should be easy to extrapolate any needed calcs for other frequencies or sizes from what you have shown.
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  #124  
Old 05-02-2012, 12:56 AM
Farmhand Farmhand is offline
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In the Colorado Springs notes Tesla does mention winding half or part of the
secondary the opposite way or another coil or something, I'll try to find the
reference . ahah page 69 figure 2. A few of the top turns of the secondary

Cheers
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  #125  
Old 05-02-2012, 01:29 AM
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jake jake is offline
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Outch!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by David G Dawson View Post
MadHatter,
You are incorrect and please read the URL I posted as it very clearly states that the 0.637 point is AVERAGE VALUE (Vav) and 0.707 is RMS VALUE (Vrms).
I have been in this game a long time and know what is what.
Please check your facts before responding to anything I have presented.
I don't mind criticism but this is BS!

Jake,
All very well but look at this:
1.557 x 2pi = 9.7829 Mhz and then go look at my drawing as it is the very same 9.7829 Mhz.
1.557 x (pi/2) x4 = 9.7829 Mhz.
All the waveshape drawing that I presented represents is the point at which we are working at with our AM Radio Station signal with respect to a Hertzian 1/4 Wave system.

If you people are not going to listen to an oldtimer with a great deal of experience in OU research, then I will just disappear into the bush just like Eric has done.

One thing I should make note of is the direction of winding.
My Primary and Secondary are both CCW but for some unknown reason I stood on the wrong side whilst winding my first WORKING Extra and wound it CW - opposite.
The new Extra is also wound CCW but does not work or is difficult to get to work and my drawing shows why.

Eric states clearly to wind ALL Coils in the same direction but I may have accidentally stumbled across another discovery which I will prove out on my return.

Not going to sit here working out all the Math problems and for all of you to not understand and discredit.
If you are so blind that you cannot see what I am presenting then I will simply fade into the distance, again like Eric.

What you may not realise is that what is being presented before your very eyes is the entire secret to winding coils like Don Smith and Kapanadze use but nobody knows why they work and all their efforts were/are of an empirical nature.

What Kapanadze is currently using is a split Copper main core and this is his Primary as he is attempting to build as Eric has shown with all the Math that I am fully supporting as shown above and replicates a Tesla Magnifying Transformer (TMT).

What the Kapanadze device now needs is the Secondary and Extra Coils to be wound using the data that I have supplied and we should have our OU device.
The only outstanding question is the direction to wind the Extra Coil and I will clear that up when I return.

I am sorry to be working with people that cannot see the light when it has all been presented before you and very clearly at that with full reference to Eric's theory and in agreement.

Didn't you hear that my Extra Coil WORKED first time using Eric's Math but on the MULTIPLY side and NOT the DIVIDE side - what do you need to see the LIGHT!?

If I am beginning to sound like Eric then you may wake up and realise why, some day.

The information passed on from this 'discovery' even shows clearly that Tesla may have made a mistake with his operating fequency and he chose the wrong side of his 96 Khz base frequency and used the 60 Khz side instead of the 149 Khz side.
This may be why he had tuning problems as his work was of an empirical nature without a solid working Math base which we now have thanks to Eric and some accidental discoveries.
Tesla may also have had technical equipment problems at the higher frequency and why he chose the lower.

WAKE UP!

Smokey
Smokey,

Math does not mean much to me. Sure it's a tool that simplifies life but to me.. It's just numbers, there all relative.. I need to understand... Once I do that the math is a piece of cake...

I see the Dollard quote as being directly related you your situtation. You did it... Now don't give up on us. Because we are trying to catch up.. It takes us more then two days to build something new. We are trying. I don't have 20 years coil winding experience. And we are in the middle putting together the "whats going on" or at least I am

Now buck up, get back to work, and tell us what happens with your next extra coil.... I'm taking notes, trust me...
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  #126  
Old 05-02-2012, 02:28 AM
xee2 xee2 is offline
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@ David G Dawson

It is great to have someone who understands what EPD was doing. Can you explain the purpose of the "primary" copper sheet coil. As far as I can tell it is just adding capacitance to the secondary coil by way of mutual coupling.
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  #127  
Old 05-02-2012, 02:49 AM
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madhatter madhatter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David G Dawson View Post
MadHatter,
You are incorrect and please read the URL I posted as it very clearly states that the 0.637 point is AVERAGE VALUE (Vav) and 0.707 is RMS VALUE (Vrms).
I have been in this game a long time and know what is what.
Please check your facts before responding to anything I have presented.
I don't mind criticism but this is BS!

Yes, it is the average value, my mistake in calling it rms. It is the average of half the sine wave and is normally applied to a rectified waveform.

Look forward to your results, and further development of the equations your using.
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  #128  
Old 05-02-2012, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by xee2 View Post
When close together the inductance of each coil will be increased by the other coil. The coil with the highest Q will primarily effect self resonant frequency. You should set SRF of secondary then gradually move primary closer re-tuning the SRF of each coil as you move them together.

This is how I measure self resonant frequency.



6 - 330pF across the primary and the system is happiest at 1640. It is now louder with only a ground(house ground) than it was with the fireplace antenna and I can listen to the piezo earpiece well without even touching the diode to the secondary. It will also light an led.

So now I need that 2 plate capacitor I was talking about earlier. That way the capacitor metal will match the primary metal.
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  #129  
Old 05-02-2012, 03:06 AM
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David, you're not going to like this and I mean no insult to you at all. Your calcs are still based on the velocity of C, Eric is clear and adamant that this is wrong! any and all variations of the harmonics based on the propagation speed of light will result in the wrong direction being taken.

If I have somehow missed where you've taken this into account please point it out to me

I agree with Eric on the increased velocity propagation to what extent is where it needs fine tuning. the rotation of the B field is where the velocity start to increase and is a cos value, how far that rotation is, well... that's a good question.
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  #130  
Old 05-02-2012, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake View Post
:
6 - 330pF across the primary and the system is happiest at 1640. It is now louder with only a ground(house ground) than it was with the fireplace antenna and I can listen to the piezo earpiece well without even touching the diode to the secondary. It will also light an led.
Fantastic.
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  #131  
Old 05-02-2012, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by T-rex View Post

5) PI over two; this factor appears twice in the Crystal Radio Initiative, C.R.I. The (20%) secondary coil "effective" propogation velocity is the velocity of light in the space in which it occupies. Here the Pi over two factoris an offsetof a unit value to shorten the winding to compensate for the heavy external loading that the secondary is loaded with, that is, the external inductance and capacitance from the earth and extra coil connections. The aspect ratio of 1 to 1 on the extra coil gives an "effective" propogation of 187% the velocity of light, hence the winding length must be made greater in order to get a quarter wave resonance at a higher speed. This is brought down to Pi over 2 percent, 157%, the velocity of light to compensate for the burden upon the extra coil, this mostly arising from the dielectric upon which this coil is wound. The secondary is Pi over two shorter, the extra coil is Pi over two longer. Golly Mr. Wizard that's Pi squared over four! Do not hunt for magic where it is not, this is all experimental. So go experiment.

.
If the secondary is Pi over two shorter, the extra coil is Pi over two longer what is the actual length in rad.

It been a long time since I worked in radians. Is this correct:

pi/2 shorter = ((3*pi)/2)*'?'
pi/2 longer = ((5*pi)/2)*'?'

?= cycle or wave or...

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  #132  
Old 05-02-2012, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake View Post
If the secondary is Pi over two shorter, the extra coil is Pi over two longer what is the actual length in rad.

It been a long time since I worked in radians. Is this correct:

pi/2 shorter = ((3*pi)/2)*'?'
pi/2 longer = ((5*pi)/2)*'?'

?= cycle or wave or...

Pi/2 = 1.5707
1.57... rads is 90*

Pi = 180*
1 rad = 180*/pi = 57.29577*

90* is the multiplication of -j rotation. reference to Steinmetz and the operator, also it's the rotation of the B field and hence the reason for the increased velocity.
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  #133  
Old 05-02-2012, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
Pi/2 = 1.5707
1.57... rads is 90*

Pi = 180*
1 rad = 180*/pi = 57.29577*

90* is the multiplication of -j rotation. reference to Steinmetz and the operator, also it's the rotation of the B field and hence the reason for the increased velocity.

The secondary length is given by C/omega or C/(2piF). As stated by Eric this is pi/2 shorter.. Shorter than what(w)? [pi/2 = 90* = 1/4 cycle]

So pi/2 less than one cycle is 3pi/2 or 3/4 of a cycle.

So what is the standard that we are taking away from? In terms of pi.
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  #134  
Old 05-02-2012, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake View Post
The secondary length is given by C/omega or C/(2piF). As stated by Eric this is pi/2 shorter.. Shorter than what(w)? [pi/2 = 90* = 1/4 cycle]

So pi/2 less than one cycle is 3pi/2 or 3/4 of a cycle.

So what is the standard that we are taking away from? In terms of pi.
The secondary is in radians not degrees, so the wave length is equal to it's arc length.

Erics comment of the pi over two longer or shorter is by my understanding the reference to -j operator which is a pi/2 multiplication rotation of the B field.

I'm working on some other relations for the extra coil at the moment using hyperbolic trig and will post as soon as I have something.
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  #135  
Old 05-02-2012, 06:34 PM
xee2 xee2 is offline
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@ jake

Is this what your circuit looks like?

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  #136  
Old 05-02-2012, 06:46 PM
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I wanted to post a comment.
I realize that we can twist and fiddle fart all we want with the mathematics to get results we want. the math in reality should be the theory and the experimental lab work is testing that theory, when it doesn't match or the results are different its back to the drawing board to re-do or re-calculate the math again.

Math is a VERY powerful tool in setting up a theory and testing it. If there is a pattern where experimental results fit the mathematics used then expanding on the mathematical theory gets a bit easier however one still has to be careful that we don't start to effect the results by manipulating the results thru the mathematics used.

Thankfully a lot of the base math is known and results are predictable, we are though when getting to the extra coil moving into the unknown. coil winding and manipulation of fields thru various winding designs is nothing new, this is not what Eric or Tesla was doing though. instead of trying to force or manipulate the fields Tesla was using the base parameters of the fields to manipulate them. Steinmetz covers this with the J operator in hyperbolic form, Clifford algebra is another useful tool though it's basis was quaternions - another story for another day

The goal is to get to L&C to match in harmony, nondestructive resonance. once achieved there should be a rotation of the B field to where the conjugate pair is no more, this will give rise to velocity of the wave faster than C. simple in theory but highly complicated in practice due to the sheer number of parameters involved and that the mathematics for engineering this are not finished.

Now here's the 64 trillion dollar question (inflation ), when the B field is longitudinal to the E field, is the extra coil still inductively coupled to the secondary? or is it now in electrostatic phase coupling? it needs both to achieve resonance, but once there what happens? is it the elusive sink and radiator Steinmetz theorized?

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  #137  
Old 05-02-2012, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xee2 View Post
@ jake

Is this what your circuit looks like?

you don't need a full bridge rectifier or capacitor for the LED, or at least I don't. single diode and led with leads shunting top and ground will light the LED nicely.
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  #138  
Old 05-02-2012, 07:27 PM
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@ madhatter

Thanks for the info. How far are you away from the transmitter? I would try this but the nearest transmitter to me is about 50 miles away.

I know nothing about this antenna design, but as an ex-ham the top coil looks like an inductive matching coil that is used on ham whip antennas that are shorter than 1/4 wavelength. When the whip is less than 1/4 wavelength it looks like a large capacitive reactance. Putting an inductor in series with the capacitance cancels out the reactive components and makes the whip look like a small real impedance instead of a large reactive impedance. This makes it easier to get power into and out of the whip.
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  #139  
Old 05-02-2012, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by xee2 View Post
@ madhatter

Thanks for the info. How far are you away from the transmitter? I would try this but the nearest transmitter to me is about 50 miles away.

I know nothing about this antenna design, but as an ex-ham the top coil looks like an inductive matching coil that is used on ham whip antennas that are shorter than 1/4 wavelength. When the whip is less than 1/4 wavelength it looks like a large capacitive reactance. Putting an inductor in series with the capacitance cancels out the reactive components and makes the whip look like a small real impedance instead of a large reactive impedance. This makes it easier to get power into and out of the whip.
Ahh, well the radio setup was too problomatic and that transmitter is roughly 36miles away.

I turned my attention to smaller scale and built two sets CW and CCW coil sets at 4Mhz.

This is a bit different from std radio reception, the secondary is in radian length. but the extra is very different. It's basic design is based on the propagation velocity increased by 157.08% over C. which increases the length to fit the increased wave length.

the secondary is 1.570 radians in length or 90*, the extra is also the same 90* but at the increased velocity of C by 157%. the spacing and wire ga are designed to create a self resonance within a 1:1 H/D ratio. As you can imagine nearbody capacitance becomes an issue as it's highly sensitive. The extra coil calcs seem to confuse many as well, there is a fair amount of information by Eric Dollard on the reasons and research behind the equations.

It starts from the point that the speed of light is due to the conjugate pair of E & B fields, now by rotating the B field by theta degrees it is possible to increase the velocity by cos(theta).
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  #140  
Old 05-02-2012, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by xee2 View Post
@ jake

Is this what your circuit looks like?


I started with something very similar to that schematic. But then the ground line from the FWBR came off and it still worked fine with little to no difference. It actually worked better if I held the ground line instead of attaching it to the bottom of the secondary. That reminded me of an AV plug so I tried one and it worked, so I stopped using the FWBR.

The secondary has nothing attached to it except the soda can terminal and the ground. The soda can terminal is optional and the size can be changed to for more or less capacitance. I don't know exactly Eric recommends the can.

The primary has almost 2nF of capacitance attached to it. (6 silver mica in parallel) This will be replaced with a 2 plate capacitor. The LED and Piezo earpiece are both attached to the same AV plug. The piezo is in parallel with the LED on the AV plug. This can be touched to almost any part of the secondary or primary for a listen. It will start to pick up audio about 1" away from the coil.

If there is not enough capacitance on the secondary (not across), hand and body capacitance plague the system. You need to be near it to for it to work. Once I had enough capacitance I could approach without much issue but if I get with 1" it shuts down.

I went with the soda can on the secondary which gave me an SRF of ~2000kHz for the secondary alone. Adding the primary brought that down. Adding capacitance to the primary keeps bringing it lower. But there is a cost in efficiency.

Adding capacitors across the secondary was difficult because I needed so little capacitance. One lead from the top and one from the bottom laid close together was about as good as I could get. Or I could just hold my hand about 1 inch from the coil.

What did you use to draw the schematic?? I need something like that.

The question remains is this all related to TEM?
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  #141  
Old 05-02-2012, 09:25 PM
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@ jake

Thanks for the update.

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What did you use to draw the schematic?? I need something like that.
Download Serif DrawPlus

This is a free version.
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  #142  
Old 05-03-2012, 02:09 AM
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Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I'll get better at the schematics.

Thats what it looks like today. Replacing the can with 1 turn 1/2" copper tube made very little change. All of which could be offset by tube hight or capacitance on the primary.
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  #143  
Old 05-04-2012, 03:22 AM
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I finally finished the extra coil for the other set. So now I have two sets, one CW and one CCW.

Setting them up in series so that the two primaries are back to back and axial the entire series will resonate at 4Mhz, that took some fiddling.

disconnecting the extra coils and leaving them inductively coupled, and the two primaries inductive as well. setting about to tune the extras has been strange, the CW extra tuned easily enough, the CCW extra, nope. I've removed 3 turns got it as far as 3.5Mhz adding capacitance lowers it and I don't feel comfortable removing more turns. something odd with this setup.

For an experiment I fed the two primaries the same signal from the generator, so that signal goes to outer turn of CW and inner turn of CCW, opposite for ground lead. the secondaries are in series with a small capacitor and the free end has 7sq/in of aluminum foil as capacitance on it.

the extras are sitting horizontal so that the axis is vertical, they are sitting 45* off plane of the primary secondary axis at roughly 1.5" from the secondaries edge. top of each extra has 2sq/in of foil. the top of the CW extra is an LED with two diodes. The led lights brightly at 4.1Mhz, placing my hand anywhere near the secondary kills the light, near the extra has no effect. taking the LED circuit and placing it on a wooden dowel and moving about the entire arrangement the LED lights only when touched to the extra or secondary foil end. If I take the circuit and hold it via a plastic clip and move it about it will light when near the secondary free end or extra coils, my body capacitance seems to enable it to light wireless.

I'm only feeding it a 0dbm signal at .5vdc. CW extra coil measures ~3vdc wirelessly.

strange indeed. Oh and the magnetic field near the extra coils is lower then background field! very very weird.
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  #144  
Old 05-04-2012, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
I finally finished the extra coil for the other set. So now I have two sets, one CW and one CCW.



Setting them up in series so that the two primaries are back to back and axial the entire series will resonate at 4Mhz, that took some fiddling.

disconnecting the extra coils and leaving them inductively coupled, and the two primaries inductive as well. setting about to tune the extras has been strange, the CW extra tuned easily enough, the CCW extra, nope. I've removed 3 turns got it as far as 3.5Mhz adding capacitance lowers it and I don't feel comfortable removing more turns. something odd with this setup.

Is there anything different about the coil form?

Is there any change in resonant frequency when you change the orientation?



For an experiment I fed the two primaries the same signal from the generator, so that signal goes to outer turn of CW and inner turn of CCW, opposite for ground lead. the secondaries are in series with a small capacitor and the free end has 7sq/in of aluminum foil as capacitance on it.

the extras are sitting horizontal so that the axis is vertical, they are sitting 45* off plane of the primary secondary axis at roughly 1.5" from the secondaries edge. top of each extra has 2sq/in of foil. the top of the CW extra is an LED with two diodes. The led lights brightly at 4.1Mhz, placing my hand anywhere near the secondary kills the light, near the extra has no effect. taking the LED circuit and placing it on a wooden dowel and moving about the entire arrangement the LED lights only when touched to the extra or secondary foil end. If I take the circuit and hold it via a plastic clip and move it about it will light when near the secondary free end or extra coils, my body capacitance seems to enable it to light wireless.

I see this happen as well. I am working on in.

I'm only feeding it a 0dbm signal at .5vdc. CW extra coil measures ~3vdc wirelessly.



How are you feeding it?


strange indeed. Oh and the magnetic field near the extra coils is lower then background field! very very weird.
Thats why you have to type words here without meaning
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  #145  
Old 05-07-2012, 11:04 PM
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@ jake

The following test would provide a good measure of how well your crystal radio is performing. Find highest output voltage you can get with a specified antenna length.

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Last edited by xee2; 05-07-2012 at 11:07 PM.
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  #146  
Old 05-08-2012, 07:28 PM
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@ jake

The following test would provide a good measure of how well your crystal radio is performing. Find highest output voltage you can get with a specified antenna length.

It will show 2-3v avg. or 5-6v peak to peak if I set it up like that. No antenna. The digital multimeter and DSO nano average values are close.

BUT it needs to be grounded to something in my house or attached to my house, or "virtual grounded" to a copper plate on the counter. The entire electrical system including the mains ground and water pipes all are contaminated with the signal. i.e. I can faintly hear the station with just a diode and no coils..

Outside with a wire stuck into the ground away from the house I just get a signal of ~50mv. Without the wire in the ground I get nada.. ( I need to work on a good ground)
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:32 PM
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jake jake is offline
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Primary capacitor plate and lead

Its going to be dificult to solder this to the primary. I have two of these. The other is the mirror image.



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Old 05-08-2012, 08:25 PM
xee2 xee2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake View Post
Its going to be dificult to solder this to the primary. I have two of these. The other is the mirror image.
Soldering is best, but just fastening with screws should work.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:28 PM
xee2 xee2 is offline
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Outside with a wire stuck into the ground away from the house I just get a signal of ~50mv. Without the wire in the ground I get nada.. ( I need to work on a good ground)
Is this 50 mV with the resonator?
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:51 PM
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dR-Green dR-Green is offline
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I think the secondary should be mostly left alone. It can be tuned for best signal by using adjustable condenser plates across it, and the primary also tuned using variable capacitors. One affects the other. This can all be seen on an oscilloscope across the primary. The plate connecting to the diodes "sucks" energy out of it and the voltage in the primary is lowered, also the plate itself affects the tuning so the condenser plates need to be adjusted to compensate. Using a simplified "power" setup with no load makes all this easily visible.

I also get a higher voltage in the primary at 1.4-2.something MHz when the station I'm tuning to is 882kHz, there's only noise at the higher frequencies/higher voltage, so I don't think just measuring the voltage is an accurate way of tuning it or any reliable way of determining what's going on. The signal should be in the primary otherwise there'll be no possibility of powering anything. The radio setup isn't arranged across the primary as a regular Tesla type receiver, rather in this case the primary is just having a resonant effect to maximise the "radiated" signal at the top of the secondary for reception through the plate antenna. In my opinion So I'd say the place to be looking is mostly at the primary.
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