Hydrogen Boosters for Cars

[Aaron]

Please use this thread for hydrogen boosters for cars. Tube or plate setups welcome. There are plenty of companies selling kits and I can't say who has the best. They are basically mini "Brown's Gas" generators which supplement the fuel/air for more power, less emissions and cleaner engine. But make sure you can manipulate the o2 sensor voltage so it doesn't sabotage your gains from the booster. I'll post more stuff here later and welcome anything anyone wants to contribute.

[Aaron]

Eagle Research Hyzor

Eagle-Research: Fuel Savers Water As Fuel hyzor technology
Don't use it without the efie..info online

[adam ant]

Denis Lee's company sells a hydrogen booster, but it's price tag is so freaking high it isnt worth the gains. they also put a tube magnet setup on the fuel line. this will ionize and compress the fuel, making the burn that much more efficient.

[Aaron]

warning

Dennis Lee does have his hands on some good stuff. Also, years of fraud taking money from people as well. I would steer very clear of anything he is offering.

[Greystar]

diy one

here is a link to a Do it yourself one...

Hydrogen Booster

haven't built it so i couldn't tell you how well it works.

it keep it in my bookmarked pages with a ton of other projects to try when i have time and money.

Hope it help any one interested.

[adam ant]

i met Dennis Lee last year, he reminds me of a cross between an TV evangelist and a used car salesman.
does anyone know what specifics he uses in his hydrogen booster? i cant figure out why it would cost over $2,000. you can purchase the Browns gas generator (for cutting/welding) for the same price!!

and according to his estimates, their hydrogen booster is not really that good.

[Aaron]

o2 sensor mod required

Not sure Bryan.

But no matter what hydrogen boost someone uses, it is required to have a circuit that can manipulate the voltage coming from the o2 sensor. Otherwise, from the cleaner/leaner burn, the fuel computer will sabotage it by raising the voltage making more fuel pump in to richen it back up.

[adam ant]

alright, maybe you can clarigy this. i have seen this argued amoung many different hydrogen experts.

what exactly is messing with the o2 sensor? if H-H-O is burned together it forms back into water... i do not think that an o2 sensor is designed to account for this... unless the water vapor is shorting out the o2 sensor.
it wouldnt be excess oxygen, because it is being recombined back to the hydrogen.

im not disputing the necessity of an EEFI, but just trying to understand exactly what is causing the increased voltage in the O2 sensor.

-bryan

[Aaron]

alternator power schematic

Here are some diagrams for tapping power from the alternator to run a hydrogen booster with good amperage for good browns gas production:

[Aaron]

o2 sensor details

Hi Bryan,

Basically the more carbon product goes past the o2 sensor, it sees it as being too rich. It sends a lower voltage to fuel computer to inject less gas to bring it down to 14.7 air to 1 part fuel (14.7:1).

If there is too little carbon product as a result of clean or lean burn, it sees it as being too lean. It sends a higher voltage to fuel computer to inject more gas to richen it up to 14.7:1.

A mixture too lean will be detrimental to an engine so that is true but there are plenty of ways to deal with it instead of the o2 sensor way that will sabotage mileage increases.

Also 14.7:1 is only theoretically the ideal mixture for burning (garbage science). If you have plasma ignition for example, you can burn very effectively 40:1 for practical use and up to 100:1 for demo purposes.

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There are no plugs available that outperform these. Developed in part by
Sandia labs. 1 million watt pulse (because of time compressed discharge).

Robert Kurpa's firestorm's aren't available and would be the best so until
they are, need to go with what is avail.

There are lots of sites that go into detail on the o2 sensor ... so-called authority sites but they don't mention sabotaging gas mileage.

With a hydrogen booster, many people gain 15-70% boost in gas mileage but only when they can trick the o2 sensor. With the water gas, it isn't a lean mixture..only a lean gasoline mixture but no harm because there is great combustion enhancement. More power, less emission and less carbon buildup.

Another enhancement is to warm the fuel right before going into the intake. Not too hot but about the temp of a hot radiator.

Also, according to EPA (not implying they are an authority on anything), but at least they list the fact that if an o2 sensor is faulty, replacing it can boost mpg by up to 70%.

For racing application on street cars, you can do the opposite and richen the mixture to get some serious gas injection but of course lower mpg.

I think the concept is as basic as if there is less carbon for oxygen to bind to, there is more freed oxygen.

alright, maybe you can clarigy this. i have seen this argued amoung many different hydrogen experts.

what exactly is messing with the o2 sensor? if H-H-O is burned together it forms back into water... i do not think that an o2 sensor is designed to account for this... unless the water vapor is shorting out the o2 sensor.
it wouldnt be excess oxygen, because it is being recombined back to the hydrogen.

im not disputing the necessity of an EEFI, but just trying to understand exactly what is causing the increased voltage in the O2 sensor.

-bryan

[sterlingpg]

O2 sensors...

Ok, its been awhile since I was 'in the trade'..but from what I remember - O2 sensors do indeed 'sense' the amount of oxygen in the exhaust.

They do this by comparing the amount O2 in the exhaust with the O2 in the atmosphere. If you have ever looked at an O2 sensor, and specifically the part of the housing that is external to the exhaust pipe, you will see the holes or slots where air can go in. The standard O2 sensor is actually a little current generator. It does this by chemical pressure. Yes, the chemical oxygen content difference between outside air to exhaust oxygen leads to them wanting to equalize, thus the free oxygen from the atmosphere will flow current (electrons) in conjunction with the catalyst (the plantinum in the sensor) at different rates according to the comparison of oxygen and its electrons in the exhaust stream.

A 'lean' mixture leads to misfire which, at the early stages, cannot be felt by you as a driver - any misfire results in a huge amount of oxygen going down the exhaust pipe (as well as a ton of hydrocarbons - unburnt fuel) and so the computer senses this and richens up the mixture. Thus, it is the oxygen level that is being sensed, NOT the amount of unburnt fuel in the exhaust!. The stoichiometretic ratio of 14.7 to 1 for gasoline is a 'best overall' number (coincidentally (or is it? lol) the same as atomospheric pressure at sea level - 14.7 lbs per sq in.) for power, fuel mileage, and emissions. For gasoline, this is also a measurement of pounds, thus - 14.7 pounds (not parts per) of air to 1 pound of gasoline. Any malfunction of the O2 sensor system where it will read lean (low voltage), air leaks upstream of the sensor, or misfire, is going to result in the computer richening the mixture = higher fuel usage, lower MPG. You can see why lean is low voltage because as the oxygen content of the exhaust goes up, approaching what is in the atmosphere, there would be less current generated (less potential difference between outside to inside oxygen), thus the opposite, a rich mixture has very little oxygen, causing a much higher electron flow (read in voltage by the computer).

I am not really that familiar with these fuel-extender products so I do not know why they need to fool with the O2 circuit except that somehow there must be a lean firing event or some other way that more oxygen is going down the pipe. O2 sensors in conjuction with the 'magic' 14.7 ratio are not primarily there to prevent preignition damage from lean mixtures but rather for the best overall (read: lowest common denominator) power, fuel economy, and emissions: Emphasis on emissions. Again, O2 sensors do not sense anything to do with the 'richness' in relation to the fuel content in the exhaust - they read oxygen levels in comparison to atmospheric oxygen content only.

Devices to bypass O2 sensors have existed for as long as there has been electronic fuel injection - the aftermarket propane and natural gas system manufacturers needed to do this to shut off the engine light that resulted from the different exhaust content of propane and natural gas conversions (from gasoline). However, this was a totally different situation than adding devices to the gasoline engines that still ran on gasoline like we're discussing. With the propane and NG, the engine was often set up with a gas analyzer for optimum running (while on the alternate fuel, since many were running dual fuel - gasoline and the alternate) on the alternate fuel and so the electronic box would just generate a typcial rich/lean swing to the computer to make it think all was well in exhaust land lol. If we were to play with the O2 sensor while STILL running on gasoline, it must be a more complicated device for the engine to run anywhere near right. There is a hierarchy system in the computer to still have a vehicle run, even with a totally malfunctioning O2 sensor, but it would have problems. As I mentioned above, the lean/rich swing of the standard O2 sensors (there are other designs as well) does not actually affect the actual content of the exhaust very much - it is a very minimal swing.

Ok, just for fun. Though the O2 sensor system plays around with some so-called magical 14.7:1 ratio of air to fuel - what is its real purpose??? Answer: The next component in the exhaust system - the catalytic converter. The swing about stoichiometric (simply means the optimum 14.7:1 ratio for gasoline) is to facilitate the function of the Cat. What is the purpose of the Cat? To 'burn' or oxidize unburnt fuel? Nope. Semantics maybe, but its main purpose is to store oxygen. Yes, during the lean swing of the burn cycle, excess oxygen goes downstream and is stored in the converter to facilitate the burning of unburnt fuel during the rich swing. This is actually done over a very small range of values in the literal content of O2 and HC's (Hydrocarbons). If you looked at this with a gas analyzer, you would see very little, if any, change in the values displayed. So the computer purposely adusts the swing of lean to rich to lean to give this pulse of oxygen to be stored in the Cat to help burn HCs. This is just the oxidization side of the Cat...Virtually all cars also have a Reduction side to deal with the Nox as well.

The whole science behind O2 sensors and Catalytic converters is amazingly complex from a chemistry/engineering side. I haven't dealt with this stuff for about 8 yrs, so the above is just off the top of my head and any errors in accuracy will be consistently blamed on that! Not too mention, I was working in the trade as an auto tech, not an engineer lol.

Intersting stuff - I love the free energy devices!!!

Stephen

[Aaron]

o2 sensor

Thanks Stephen!

I forgot you're the resident expert in the emissions side of things.

For anyone who wants to see how to trick the sensor, this is the only online free plans I know of:

See non pdf version: http://better-mileage.com/memberadx.html

http://c4caraudio.com/mpgs/downloads...r%20Manual.pdf

Use at your own risk. I would buy one already assembled from Eagle Research.

[adam ant]

thank you aaron and stephen, great explanations.

very complex issue here, i think ill leave it to the experts! hahaha
(that would be you two )

[Aaron]

o2 trick from Eagle Research

ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION ENHANCER MANUAL (EFIE) In the past, fuel savers would not work when applied to fuel injection because fuel injection systems are actually designed to prevent efficient combustion!
Increasing the combustion efficiency of an engine increases the exhaust oxygen percentage. Most fuel injection engines use an oxygen sensor to infer the air/fuel ratio of the engine, the increased oxygen content in the exhaust is 'read' by the computer to be a lean mixture in the engine. The computer then adds extra fuel to bring the pollution back to 'normal'.
This problem led to the development of the Electronic Fuel Injection Enhancer (EFIE, pronounced Ee-Fy). The EFIE allows you to apply an offset to the voltage coming from the oxygen sensor, so your vehicle's computer is completely unaware that the oxygen content of the exhaust has increased.
The EFIE manual explains exactly how to build an EFIE, using parts from a Radio Shack. The manual also completely details oxygen sensor function and why the EFIE works.
Your Fuel injection system stays original. (Picture shows home built EFIE)
Note: The cost of buying the components to build your own EFIE is usually greater than just buying the already assembled circuit from Eagle-Research.
ISBN 1-895882-14-1 • 16 pages • 11 x 17----------------------------------------------------------------

EFIE DEVICE We now sell completely assembled EFIE device. All you have to do is hook it up and drive!
The EFIE connects directly to your oxygen sensor and is compatible with ALL oxygen sensors.
The EFIE allows you to retain all your power and performance while taking advantage of increased mileage.
No matter what fuel saver device or method you use on your fuel injected vehicle, you'll need the EFIE to unleash the full potential of the fuel saver.
The EFIE alone can save 5% - 10% on your fuel bill, simply by 'leaning' your fuel mixture. We do not consider it as a fuel saver on it's own. It is designed as an ASSIST for fuel savers.
Vehicles with more than one oxygen sensor need an EFIE on each oxygen sensor.
Note: Your actual mileage gains will depend on the capability of the fuel saver(s) you apply to your vehicle.
SKU ER1-78-0020-----------------------

Above is from: Eagle-Research Products Page
I have friends who get real results with this exact unit.

[Redmeanie]

Anyone hooking up one of these "Boosters" should be connected after the MAF sensor as close to the the intake as possible, just before the throttle body. This eliminates the possibility of the Hydrogen igniting in the intake (breather) assembly.