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View Full Version : Bedini SSG Daftman - not working - pls advise!


Shin
09-10-2011, 11:11 AM
I tryed to stay close to this setup, but there is a problem. As soon as i power up the circuit, the coil sings in different pitches. I measure around 13V across both coils in AC position of meter, rotor not spinning. The coil atracts the magnet and the sound is loudest when the magnet is centered in front of the coil.
I use a 3055 transistor. Coil is 800 turns, 0.63mm run / 0,3mm trigger. No core till now. Two 12V car batteries.
Would someone go with me through a troubelshooting? I realy would appreciate it! I would like to try some things but need a working base of course.
Thank you very much!
(Sorry, english is not my own language)

Guruji
09-10-2011, 11:19 AM
I tryed to stay close to this setup, but there is a problem. As soon as i power up the circuit, the coil sings in different pitches. I measure around 13V across both coils in AC position of meter, rotor not spinning. The coil atracts the magnet and the sound is loudest when the magnet is centered in front of the coil.
I use a 3055 transistor. Coil is 800 turns, 0.63mm run / 0,3mm trigger. No core till now. Two 12V car batteries.
Would someone go with me through a troubelshooting? I realy would appreciate it! I would like to try some things but need a working base of course.
Thank you very much!
(Sorry, english is not my own language)

If you want rotor to spin try to lower base resistor.

Shin
09-10-2011, 11:29 AM
Thank you for answering me.
I have 1k variable and 100 ohm resistor in series. If i turn the variable resistor to 0 the sound goes sometimes away, as the magnetic field of the coil does. But the rotor doesnt spin anyway.
Taking out the 100 ohm resistor, too? Realy?

Guruji
09-10-2011, 11:40 AM
Thank you for answering me.
I have 1k variable and 100 ohm resistor in series. If i turn the variable resistor to 0 the sound goes sometimes away, as the magnetic field of the coil does. But the rotor doesnt spin anyway.
Taking out the 100 ohm resistor, too? Realy?

Try 10ohms instead.

Bizzy
09-10-2011, 11:52 AM
Good morning
I am getting ready to build my first Bedini SSG as well and noticed there are a lot of variations which can sometimes be confusing. My question is


Is there a design that John Bedini put out we can use and follow?
I looked on his website
JOHN BEDINI'S COLLECTION OF FREE ENERGY MACHINES (http://www.icehouse.net/john1/john1.html)
but couldn't find a blue print for it.

I am asking this so that Shin can perhaps measure his against that standard design and help others like myself who are begining the project
thanks
Bizzy

Bizzy
09-10-2011, 11:53 AM
Shin
I forgot my manners
Welcome to the forum!:welcome:
Bizzy

Shin
09-10-2011, 12:16 PM
Ok, i tryed a 10k base resistance. Sound much louder, more attraction force, magnetic field from power on.
If i spin the rotor a bit faster, the field colapses, no more magnetic force and sound. With old resistor setup the same...

Thank you Bizzy for welcome:) I'm from the country you own the icon of, he he. Ahh, how i would be happy if the Bedini would start!
I found that the Daftman setup and layout is for most a base starting point. So i tryed this one. It looks so simple, but somehow i can make a mistake...

Btw, my coil has south in direction to magnet. Magnets norh out to coil, so attraction.
Any more ideas what i can check?

Correction: I meant 10 Ohm like Guruji said. It was a typing, sorry. Will respond soon citfa!

citfta
09-10-2011, 01:23 PM
Hi Shin,

:welcome:

Guruji said to try a 10 ohm not 10k ohm resistor as the base resistor. I think the 100 ohm will be ok because it sounds like you have some other problems you need to fix first. I have built several SSG's and I have never gotten one to run without a core. If you don't have any of the welding rods Bedini suggests then I have found plain old electric fence wire will work fine. Even old coat hanger wire will work but may heat up a little because of eddy currents. Just pack as much wire into the core as it will hold.

Also you said that when energized your coil has the south pole facing the magnets. That is wrong, the north pole should face the magnet if the magnets are north facing out as they should be. After you get a core for your coil then briefly touch the leads of the coil to the posts of your battery with the magnet over the coil. It should kick the magnet away. If it doesn't then reverse the connections to the battery. When you have it connected so that it kicks the magnet away then connect the wire from the coil that was on the negative side of the battery to the collector of your 3055 and connect the other side to the positive of the run battery.

If you can't get it to run with the pot set to the minimum resistance then you may need to swap the leads from the trigger winding of the coil. The trigger winding has to apply a positive pulse to the base of the 3055. When you give the wheel a spin by hand you should hear a slight chirping sound and the wheel should start to spin on its own. I hope some of these suggestions help.

Carroll

Shin
09-10-2011, 02:19 PM
Carroll,
very kind to help a beginner on his way and over the hurdles.
I tested 10 ohm, 10k was a typing.

Core: I will try what you said. I would have mechanic wire here, but my wife brings a few wire coat hanger at home like you suggested. Then i will fill the core. I saw a lot of videos with running Bedinis, taking the core out and rotor was spinning further.

Polarity: There are diffrent suggestions on the web obviously. I followed the Daftman instructions on youtube to wind the coil and connect the wires to the circuit. It's resulting in a south pole near the magnet (attraction). The same suggestion on this site: http://magneticitist.webs.com/bedini.htm
I will try to reverse polarity to kick away the magnets.

Trigger wire: If the above is done, i will have a look if changing the trigger wire is necessary.

I'm not shure, but i think emitter-collector is on all the time. I measure 13V AC across both coil windings. Could this problem (if it is one) be related to your suggestions? Hmmm...
Collector -> (-) = 13V
Emitter -> (+) = 13 V

I hope i said it right, new to this terminology.
Thank's again Carroll, modifying now...
Please visit my thread again! :cheers:

Shin

hello_all
09-10-2011, 03:23 PM
Here is my Bendini Circuit cheap one with CPU Fan . took out the 4 wires from winding and tested resistance to make 2 sets one for trigger and other power circuit.

Sorry i did not add the protection neon .. and eliminated stuff overall the whole circuit cost me $8 or so without the fan.. It works i charged some batteries .. note IN4007 is twice but you need one.

always here to help..

regds
navdeep
:hug:

Joit
09-10-2011, 04:17 PM
@Hello all
The Neon is not to importend at the Circuit, its more the 10ohm base resistor, that the Base dont get full loaded. The Base from the 2n3055 can handle about 3 volt or even more and 7 Amps, when you put Energy on it like from this thin wires, then it can have 30 volts and more, but it will be very much slower through the resistor. The total Amount what will reach the base is a average Value from produced (mili)Amperage and Voltage.

For the triggercoils i use mostly Coils what have more then 10 ohm pysical resistance, and got then still some Range to play at.

Shin
09-10-2011, 05:13 PM
Yeppie!!! Bedini is up and running the first time!

I followed your instructions Carroll. Changed polarity to push away the magnets. Changed trigger wire, too. Then i found a peace of metal exactly the diameter of the core, but much longer.
After pushing inside, IT WAS SPINNING UP!:yahoo:

Thank you very much all, especialy to Carroll! :thanks:

With the core inside, the coil starts shaking when near to the rotor. I have a gap of about 2 cm now to stop the shaking. Do i have to mount the coil solid?

It's only tuned by ear for max. rpm. It charged in 15min from 15.64V to 15.77V. I don't know why there is so much voltage. The normal charger says the battery is not fully loaded.

I will give later on the ohm measurements of the windings. I think the trigger will be well over 10 ohm.

A great day after a lot of work for two days, he he.

THANKS!

Shin

citfta
09-10-2011, 09:14 PM
Hi Shin,

That is great! Glad to hear you got it working for you. Yes you do have to have it mounted solidly. The attraction and repulsion of the magnet will push it all over the place. I usually mount mine about 1/4 inch away which I think is about 6 to 7 mm.

If the battery voltage is going high while charging that is usually a sign the battery is sulfated. After it runs a while on the SSG the sulfation will be cleaned up and the battery voltage will drop to a more normal level while charging. Just keep an eye on the battery so that it is not getting too warm while charging.

Tuning for the highest rpm is ok but you will probably find it will charge better if you can tune it for the "sweet spot". This is the place where the wheel is turning the fastest for the least amount of input current. In other words 500 rpm at 100 ma is better than 600 rpm at 150 ma. These were just examples. Your values may be much different depending on your coil size and wheel size etc.

You will probably find the solid piece of metal you used for the core will heat up after running a while. This is caused by eddy currents flowing in the large piece of metal. It is recommended that you use a lot of smaller pieces of metal to reduce the eddy currents. I think you said you had some mechanic wire there. That would probably make a good core. Almost any soft iron wire will work.

Glad I could help a little.

Carroll

Bizzy
09-11-2011, 10:44 AM
Thank you Bizzy for welcome:) I'm from the country you own the icon of, he he.

Grüezßei miteinand Shin
:)

Every one is extremely helpfull on this site witha lot of usefull information. In fact Caroll has helped me a great deal with me mosfet circuits!!!
Tschüß
Bizzy

Bizzy
09-11-2011, 10:50 AM
Hi Shin,

That is great! Glad to hear you got it working for you. Yes you do have to have it mounted solidly. The attraction and repulsion of the magnet will push it all over the place. I usually mount mine about 1/4 inch away which I think is about 6 to 7 mm.

If the battery voltage is going high while charging that is usually a sign the battery is sulfated. After it runs a while on the SSG the sulfation will be cleaned up and the battery voltage will drop to a more normal level while charging. Just keep an eye on the battery so that it is not getting too warm while charging.

Tuning for the highest rpm is ok but you will probably find it will charge better if you can tune it for the "sweet spot". This is the place where the wheel is turning the fastest for the least amount of input current. In other words 500 rpm at 100 ma is better than 600 rpm at 150 ma. These were just examples. Your values may be much different depending on your coil size and wheel size etc.

You will probably find the solid piece of metal you used for the core will heat up after running a while. This is caused by eddy currents flowing in the large piece of metal. It is recommended that you use a lot of smaller pieces of metal to reduce the eddy currents. I think you said you had some mechanic wire there. That would probably make a good core. Almost any soft iron wire will work.

Glad I could help a little.

Carroll

Congratulations on your working SSG

Guruji
09-11-2011, 11:25 AM
Yeppie!!! Bedini is up and running the first time!

I followed your instructions Carroll. Changed polarity to push away the magnets. Changed trigger wire, too. Then i found a peace of metal exactly the diameter of the core, but much longer.
After pushing inside, IT WAS SPINNING UP!:yahoo:

Thank you very much all, especialy to Carroll! :thanks:

With the core inside, the coil starts shaking when near to the rotor. I have a gap of about 2 cm now to stop the shaking. Do i have to mount the coil solid?

It's only tuned by ear for max. rpm. It charged in 15min from 15.64V to 15.77V. I don't know why there is so much voltage. The normal charger says the battery is not fully loaded.

I will give later on the ohm measurements of the windings. I think the trigger will be well over 10 ohm.

A great day after a lot of work for two days, he he.

THANKS!

Shin

Nice effort Shin :cheers:

Shin
09-13-2011, 08:00 AM
Hey!
I'm working every day on my bedini. It's a lot to improve as you know.
So much fun, even sitting in front and enjoying the Dirac hole :yinyang:

I've secured the coil and adjusted the gap. The neo's seem to need more gap for less drag. For next machine i will try normal magnets but bigger in size.
I also changed the solid core to the coat hanger wire. That improved a lot! The solid core didn't get magnetized.
I would like to understand the finetuning now and installed the small lamp between poti and coil.
The resulting questions... hmm... is this here the right topic/thread?
The problem is solved, so... anyone can point me to a thread where it's suitable to ask for further understanding and testing?

Thanks and have fun!

Guruji
09-13-2011, 06:43 PM
Hey!
I'm working every day on my bedini. It's a lot to improve as you know.
So much fun, even sitting in front and enjoying the Dirac hole :yinyang:

I've secured the coil and adjusted the gap. The neo's seem to need more gap for less drag. For next machine i will try normal magnets but bigger in size.
I also changed the solid core to the coat hanger wire. That improved a lot! The solid core didn't get magnetized.
I would like to understand the finetuning now and installed the small lamp between poti and coil.
The resulting questions... hmm... is this here the right topic/thread?
The problem is solved, so... anyone can point me to a thread where it's suitable to ask for further understanding and testing?

Thanks and have fun!

Fine tuning as I learned it is by making the lamp light up a bit and then let it to settle as Bedini says. Mine are with neos and works fine. Yes you can ask anything here regarding the motor. If I know I help.

Shin
09-13-2011, 08:18 PM
My situation with the lamp in the trigger wire is as follow: I have a 50mA and a 100mA bulb. Both are brightest when poti is in lowest position. Then they dim if i turn the poti while ampere draw gets smaller.
There is no 'light up a bit', there is only the transition from light to no light. Not going philosophical now...

Same characteristic if i change the 100 ohm to a smaller one, only the light is brighter.
So how can the light help me to find a 'spot'?

I can measure the ampere draw, it's between 200 and 500 mA.
Today i installed a rpm sensor. Right now the rotor spins 800 rpm.
With the 6 magnets i get a frequenzy of 80 Hz i calculated.
The rotor has 17,5 cm diameter (about 7").

2nd: I would like to see the pulses per magnet pass with that LED connected to trigger. If you understand what i mean. I saw that on some videos. I have no oszi and this would be an idea to verify the operation of my machine?

Thank you!
Shin

Guruji
09-14-2011, 12:15 PM
My situation with the lamp in the trigger wire is as follow: I have a 50mA and a 100mA bulb. Both are brightest when poti is in lowest position. Then they dim if i turn the poti while ampere draw gets smaller.
There is no 'light up a bit', there is only the transition from light to no light. Not going philosophical now...

Same characteristic if i change the 100 ohm to a smaller one, only the light is brighter.
So how can the light help me to find a 'spot'?

I can measure the ampere draw, it's between 200 and 500 mA.
Today i installed a rpm sensor. Right now the rotor spins 800 rpm.
With the 6 magnets i get a frequenzy of 80 Hz i calculated.
The rotor has 17,5 cm diameter (about 7").

2nd: I would like to see the pulses per magnet pass with that LED connected to trigger. If you understand what i mean. I saw that on some videos. I have no oszi and this would be an idea to verify the operation of my machine?

Thank you!
Shin

See bedini schematic: