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jim15800
06-15-2011, 06:04 PM
I'd like to know if anyone has success assembling bedini Motor Generator Kits.
If so I'd like your opinion on how thorough the instructions are and if all materials came with the kit? Also if you might be willing to assemble a kit and how much you would want to do so. Thank you for your time.

Neight
06-15-2011, 06:26 PM
I'd like to know if anyone has success assembling bedini Motor Generator Kits.
If so I'd like your opinion on how thorough the instructions are and if all materials came with the kit? Also if you might be willing to assemble a kit and how much you would want to do so. Thank you for your time.

I have bought the SSG kit and the cap pulse kit from the rcharge website. the SSG kit comes with a video and a circuit diagram. It comes with a printed circuit board and a coil and all the components you need to build the circuit. it also comes with 8 ceramic magnets to use. everything they said I would get did come in the kit, and they sent it out really quickly. it is not hard to put together, just a little bit of soldering on the PCB and wiring up the coil to the circuit.
you still have to come up with your own rotor to put the magnets on.
I had already built an SSG circuit when I bought the kit, so I didn't need instructions with that, and it really doesn't come with any instructions on assembly. the SSG kit is pretty easy to figure out by itself, but the cap pulse kit is a much different story. lots of parts, no PCB, and no instructions. I couldn't figure it out, and I ended up getting some help from another member of this forum to use the components I bought to make a cap pulse circuit in a much easier way that worked very well.

the kits are very light on instructions, and when i contacted customer service for some help, they sent me some photos of the circuit already built which really were not very helpful.

If you buy the kit for the SSG, I could help you figure out what goes where so you can built it. anything beyond the SSG and you will need someone more experienced to get you where you want to be.

hope this helps :cheers:
N8

Slider2732
06-15-2011, 06:28 PM
I'd suggest reading up as much as you can, on this forum and on YouTube vids. The idea being to familiarise with the circuitry and what it's doing, fully work through it, at least mentally.
I don't own one, but do know the coils are prewound and the kits look to be of a high quality.

Depends on your location I would imagine, but I'd build one for free...am hopefully well known enough here to know i'd not run off with it !


*EDIT* What he said ^
:)

Neight
06-15-2011, 06:43 PM
here is a video I uploaded that has a pretty good view of the SSG circuit built on the kit PCB. the coil on the top is the kit coil, though I have put some tape over the coil on mine.
I went all rogue and used small neo magnets, and I wouldn't recommend it. use the bigger rotor and ceramic magnets that is suggested by Bedini. I had some trouble getting mine to work, and because of the magnets I used, it needs to be tuned every time I turn it on.

I didn't like the trimmer that comes with the kit, it's a bit hard to adjust with the circuit running. I used the jumper that comes in the kit to use a fixed resistor (after you tune the circuit) and instead used a regular potentiometer for tuning and bypassed the trimmer. in this video is also the cap pulse circuit I built with the help of blackchisel97, and contains a lot of the parts I got with the kit.

at least in this video you can see the kit circuit and get a good idea of what you are buying.

YouTube - ‪SSG demo nearly finished‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u69-zK0tf9M&feature=related)

jtanguay
06-16-2011, 03:02 AM
After buying the 6" fan kit, I'm very dissapointed. It seems like it works, but there is no real charging going on from my experimenting with it.

It will charge a 12 volt battery to about 12 volts but once unplugged the voltage drops down to about 10-11. After a day or so the voltage leaks right out and goes to about 8-9 volts. But it will charge up to 12 volts+ on some batteries (but then leak right out again). I also have an old nicad battery I'm trying to revive but it's a real pain. The voltage is at about 18-19v (its a 18v battery) but there is nothing in there. It won't even power the fan for more than a minute. Just a 'surface' charge.

I've also tried charging old car batteries and they overflowed on me and never really achieved a good charge.

I've tried both with the scr cap 'pulser' and the regular way with some pretty poor results. I find it very misleading that on their site it doesn't mention that for best results the fan will need to be re-wired. So maybe my results are from using the stock wiring, but even then I would imagine that leaving a battery on the charger for 2-3 days would net some kind of real results. I'm not even looking for overunity. All I want is battery rejuvination!!!

I'm very skeptical at seeing people charge their batteries now that I've played around with the device. With the right setup I can get my volt meter to show voltage just with the ground connector connected to the charging battery, and my ac volt detector rings off about 8 inches away from the device and most switching components. My guess is that they could be giving a false reading. Even with no connectors, if I put my meter near the device it will show voltage. Strange things going on, but alas no rejuvination :wall:

DIFFERENT
06-17-2011, 12:11 PM
I have bought the bedini classic 3 pole monopole kit as well as the 10A Tesla solar charger. The solar charger definately does the job it was made to do, even though I don't live in a area that receives very much sunlight. The kit had a step by step video as well as a schematic, built it and ran it without any problems. It works as well but not as effectively as my solar charger. Overall good products.

Neight
06-17-2011, 11:37 PM
After buying the 6" fan kit, I'm very dissapointed. It seems like it works, but there is no real charging going on from my experimenting with it.

It will charge a 12 volt battery to about 12 volts but once unplugged the voltage drops down to about 10-11. After a day or so the voltage leaks right out and goes to about 8-9 volts. But it will charge up to 12 volts+ on some batteries (but then leak right out again). I also have an old nicad battery I'm trying to revive but it's a real pain. The voltage is at about 18-19v (its a 18v battery) but there is nothing in there. It won't even power the fan for more than a minute. Just a 'surface' charge.

I've also tried charging old car batteries and they overflowed on me and never really achieved a good charge.

I've tried both with the scr cap 'pulser' and the regular way with some pretty poor results. I find it very misleading that on their site it doesn't mention that for best results the fan will need to be re-wired. So maybe my results are from using the stock wiring, but even then I would imagine that leaving a battery on the charger for 2-3 days would net some kind of real results. I'm not even looking for overunity. All I want is battery rejuvination!!!

I'm very skeptical at seeing people charge their batteries now that I've played around with the device. With the right setup I can get my volt meter to show voltage just with the ground connector connected to the charging battery, and my ac volt detector rings off about 8 inches away from the device and most switching components. My guess is that they could be giving a false reading. Even with no connectors, if I put my meter near the device it will show voltage. Strange things going on, but alas no rejuvination :wall:

I am not exactly sure what you have going on with your setup, but I can say with 100% certainty that the SSG circuit, when correctly put together, will charge batteries quite well....

I have charged 12V 7Ah batteries well over 12V and the charge held without issue. I have also used mine to charge 12V batteries from a 9V battery, and I have also charged up 9V non-rechargeable batteries on my SSG setup.

actually, about the only batteries I have not tried to charge up have been the small cell phone batteries. everything else I have tried to charge has worked quite well, and was very efficient.

My original setup without the cap pulse circuit on it would, at times, run for hours without drawing any charge off of the input battery (or if it was drawing volts out of the input battery, it was happening so slowly the meter didn't pick it up)

Also, you are working with inductive coils, so it's not a big surprise that your meter will pick up on that when it's close to the coil, I see that happening quite often around my setup, and used to wonder about it also, but I have used many different meters, and even borrowed some from a buddy of mine and all would read the same, so I am pretty well convinced it is not a fluke or broken meter. much too consistent to have 4 different meters all reading the same thing for all of them to be broken and having the same wrong reading on each of them.

I would say if you wire the fan motor up correctly to the SSG circuit, it should work, far too many people have had success charging batteries with these simple circuits for this to be some kind of scam.

good luck and hopefully someone with a little more knowledge and experience will jump in with some suggestions to get you on the right track.
:thumbsup:
N8

jtanguay
06-19-2011, 04:02 PM
The problem is just using the fan's regular windings without re-winding it. The fan will run for a good while on very little power but I'm just not seeing the spectacular results. I have the thing wired up just like the diagram showed but still no dice.

Having to buy magnet wire and re-wind the motor is going to be a pain. I'm not even sure if its worth it at this point. The unit will surface charge alkaline batteries but the charge doesn't last.

I wish I had a scope to determine if I'm getting that radiant spike and if the waveform is ok. I wish I bought the solid state charger with the pre-wound coil. I have no experience with winding coils and the tutorials out there are somewhat lacking...

Neight
06-19-2011, 05:53 PM
The problem is just using the fan's regular windings without re-winding it. The fan will run for a good while on very little power but I'm just not seeing the spectacular results. I have the thing wired up just like the diagram showed but still no dice.

Having to buy magnet wire and re-wind the motor is going to be a pain. I'm not even sure if its worth it at this point. The unit will surface charge alkaline batteries but the charge doesn't last.

I wish I had a scope to determine if I'm getting that radiant spike and if the waveform is ok. I wish I bought the solid state charger with the pre-wound coil. I have no experience with winding coils and the tutorials out there are somewhat lacking...

I wasn't aware that you have to completely re-wind the stators on the fan, that would be a pain...
I thought all you needed to do was take the ends of the coils that are already on it and route them into the SSG circuit, which would be enough of a challenge on it's own IMO.
scopes are very handy, and you can find good deals on them, but it's hard to know what to buy, loads of options...
If you are going to buy some wire to wind coils, I would build a regular SSG, or even a multi-filer version, rather than wind it around the fan stator.
I couldn't find a good complete tutorial on winding coils either, and wound several before I got one right.
on youtube, introvertabrate has a decent video on how to start winding a coil, but beyond starting the winding, it doesn't go into much detail after that.
they are tedious to wind, but once a coil is done, you can use it in many different experiments, which helps with the time investment.
wire to wind the coils is expensive, but everything else in the SSG is pretty cheap and easy to come by, and can be bought online for very little money.
sorry to hear you are having all these issues, I know how frustrating it is, and hope you find a way to make it all work for you

theremart
06-19-2011, 06:56 PM
I have not owned a kit, but I have been on this board for about 3 years, and there seems to be a re-occurring theme.

People buy the kit and run into problems building the item because of the lack of support given. This is evidenced by several cries for help here for support, in many ways this board has filled the wide gap of tech support that is needed to build these kits.


On the other side of the coin, I believe people buy these kits with expectations of OU in a box, that the kit is a magic device which will make any damaged batter brand new with only a few cycles. This is not what the kits can do, that I am aware. I have yet to see anyone on youtube buy one of these kits and have a device run for over a year on its own power.

What can be expected with the kits, is recovery of batteries that are in physically sound condition ( no broken, shorted plates, and the electrolyte has not been compromised ).

I believe the kits could be MUCH better if they did the following:

1) Gave real world computer tested results of what each kit could do with the batter sizes for both input / output the kit is intended for.

2) Explained what skills are needed to build the kit, electrical / mechanical.

3) Provided the option to have a completed kit shipped, with extra cost included for the labor to have the unit built. People I believe would pay extra just to have the skilled factor taken care of.


That has been my experience with the kits here on this board watching others struggle.

Some are very happy with the quality machined parts they have received ( as Bit's ) but some are also closer to Bedini / Rick than others so that they can ask questions directly.

Slider2732
06-19-2011, 07:14 PM
In the 3 years, has there been a thorough review and a thread that sorts through expected problems ?
There can be many reasons for a basically good product to fall down on literature and it needn't indicate a poor show in other areas.
Coming from an R/C background, it's common over at RCGroups for a new product to be thoroughly reviewed, by a time served capable person. Pro's and con's weighed up, value for money, quality of parts etc. I'm not sure that wing and tail construction applies lol, but the ease of assembly and battery life are certainly valid !
A panel of time served and respected persons from this forum could undertake reviews of such devices....with hopefully donated examples to the reviewer to keep.
Positive reviews would certainly help with sales, duds would fall by the wayside. JB's sales of devices must be influenced by members here..jim15800 being one example of presumably many inquiring persons over the years.
Within such an 'Official' review thread, the tweaks, noted issues and fixes to issues would be included.

Devices such as other common desulfators could be reviewed. Commercial offerings may be around that most (including myself) are not aware of. Which means that manufacturers are missing sales.
Think that system could work ? are there indeed enough different commercial devices currently available to warrant such thoughts ?

Neight
06-20-2011, 12:48 AM
I have not owned a kit, but I have been on this board for about 3 years, and there seems to be a re-occurring theme.

People buy the kit and run into problems building the item because of the lack of support given. This is evidenced by several cries for help here for support, in many ways this board has filled the wide gap of tech support that is needed to build these kits.


On the other side of the coin, I believe people buy these kits with expectations of OU in a box, that the kit is a magic device which will make any damaged batter brand new with only a few cycles. This is not what the kits can do, that I am aware. I have yet to see anyone on youtube buy one of these kits and have a device run for over a year on its own power.

What can be expected with the kits, is recovery of batteries that are in physically sound condition ( no broken, shorted plates, and the electrolyte has not been compromised ).

I believe the kits could be MUCH better if they did the following:

1) Gave real world computer tested results of what each kit could do with the batter sizes for both input / output the kit is intended for.

2) Explained what skills are needed to build the kit, electrical / mechanical.

3) Provided the option to have a completed kit shipped, with extra cost included for the labor to have the unit built. People I believe would pay extra just to have the skilled factor taken care of.


That has been my experience with the kits here on this board watching others struggle.

Some are very happy with the quality machined parts they have received ( as Bit's ) but some are also closer to Bedini / Rick than others so that they can ask questions directly.

I couldn't agree more...

the 2 kits I bought are a great example.
the SSG kit was easy enough to put together, even with a lack of experience, though I spent a few months researching the SSG circuit and workings before i bought anything, and had one working before I got the kit. if it were not for that experience, i can see where it would have been a whole lot more confusing to put together from scratch with no experience.
the second kit i bought came with no instructions what so ever and I never did build it as it was supposed to be built. I had to get some outside help from this forum and made my own cap pulse circuit with some of the parts that i bought. I emailed the company to request instructions, and never did receive any, though the did send me some photos that in the end, didn't help anything. even the schematic they sent with the photos was no where near clear enough to follow for a beginner, and I probably still couldn't put it together if I tried...

I knew exactly what I was getting when i bought mine, and still had some issues with what i got, though I will say that they sent the kits out the same day I ordered, and returned my help request very quickly, so the customer service I did get was prompt and useful, but still lacking for a beginner like myself.

jtanguay
06-25-2011, 03:12 AM
Okay so it seems like I'm getting somewhere with the one nicad power pack. The charger really doesn't put anything into the battery as I can hook it back up to the fan motor and it will run for about 1-2 minutes after being charged for a few days. After a few cycles of draining it down and recharging like that (maybe 5-6 times) I put it on the conventional charger and the light is coming on. Left it on there for about a day and the light was still on. A small portion of the battery was warm so something is now getting in there. Funny thing is that I hooked up the fan motor to run off of it to drain the juice out and it ran for about 18-20 hours or more. The fan wasn't spinning fast mind you, but it does tell that the battery is now accepting a charge.

So my fan kit doesn't actually charge the batteries, but seems like it's rejuvinating them.. at a super slow rate. Like I've said before I'd be happy with battery rejuvination and so I am. It's not much but oh well. The kits should come with a bit of help with rejuvinating batteries because not everyone is a tinkerer and knows how to build these things. Winding coils on the fan isn't easy but would definitely make it more efficient. I'll probably end up going that route in the future now that I have results and wouldn't be wasting my time/money.

By the way, the SCR cap pulser on ricks fan motor is just an scr and the 5408 diode. I feel like the SCR might be stuck on, but it shouldn't because it's half rectified. Would it be a good idea to make a 555 timer for the cap pulser? I like the idea of simplicity but if a 555 timer is going to give better results then so be it.

Thanks.

Neight
06-25-2011, 05:40 PM
Okay so it seems like I'm getting somewhere with the one nicad power pack. The charger really doesn't put anything into the battery as I can hook it back up to the fan motor and it will run for about 1-2 minutes after being charged for a few days. After a few cycles of draining it down and recharging like that (maybe 5-6 times) I put it on the conventional charger and the light is coming on. Left it on there for about a day and the light was still on. A small portion of the battery was warm so something is now getting in there. Funny thing is that I hooked up the fan motor to run off of it to drain the juice out and it ran for about 18-20 hours or more. The fan wasn't spinning fast mind you, but it does tell that the battery is now accepting a charge.

So my fan kit doesn't actually charge the batteries, but seems like it's rejuvinating them.. at a super slow rate. Like I've said before I'd be happy with battery rejuvination and so I am. It's not much but oh well. The kits should come with a bit of help with rejuvinating batteries because not everyone is a tinkerer and knows how to build these things. Winding coils on the fan isn't easy but would definitely make it more efficient. I'll probably end up going that route in the future now that I have results and wouldn't be wasting my time/money.

By the way, the SCR cap pulser on ricks fan motor is just an scr and the 5408 diode. I feel like the SCR might be stuck on, but it shouldn't because it's half rectified. Would it be a good idea to make a 555 timer for the cap pulser? I like the idea of simplicity but if a 555 timer is going to give better results then so be it.

Thanks.

I am glad to hear you are getting somewhere :thumbsup:
I have heard from many places that the NiCad batteries are hard to work with for charging and rejuvenation. It could be that you needed all those cycles (and more, it sounds like) to get the battery to even want to work with the SSG style HV pulses.

I have never used an SCR, so I have no idea on that one, though I do use a 555 timer for a cap pulser, and it works quite well. building it on a breadboard is much easier than soldering it down to PCB (which was a real challenge, and it took me two tries to get it right...)
I have a reasonably easy circuit for one that I got from blackchisel97, and can send you a link if you would like. I am not the best a drawing circuit diagrams, but fortunately it was mostly cut and paste kind of drawing :o

jtanguay
06-25-2011, 05:56 PM
Hmmm I'd like to build the 555 timer cap pulser but would like to find out how I can modify the scr pulser to get it to work. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how the scr works so I can get it to let the cap charge up a bit more before dumping the voltage to the battery.

The whole setup just doesn't have enough power to top up batteries. I honestly think I'd have better luck without the cap pulser for rejuvinating the batteries and then just abandon the scr cap pulser.

jtanguay
06-25-2011, 06:10 PM
I found some interesting information in another thread here (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/367-bedini-capacitive-discharge-chargers-2.html#post12151)

Hi all,

You can certainly use higher voltage discharges if you want.

I've done up to 90v from caps triggered by neon bulb triggering a scr.
If voltage is too high with not enough current..example...I was using a
600v cap .1 or .01 uf...so it fills up fast...at high frequency discharge of
voltage like that...it will make the batts rise in voltage, but won't power
much...it is electrostatic voltage charge.

You need at least the bare minimum amount of current to get the lead
ions moving in charging mode to my understanding.

Those caps in the vid are 30,000 60volts...made by Aerovox or something.
Anyway, I got those from ebay about 6 years ago or so for about $5 each.

A neon/scr circuit can replace an entire 555 circuit but again, if the trigger
voltage is high and not enough capacitance to give a good burst, it will be
a very fluffy charge.

If capacitance is too high to get the voltage rise in the caps that you want, then the discharge frequency might be too slow and again, this won't charge a battery very well. I used a bike wheel motor with the 2000 turn trifilar charging 180,000uf to about 2-3 volts over the battery and triggered by mechanical switch on pully and it took about 2 seconds to get to a few volts above the battery...and that works fine as long as the capacitance seems to be high enough. On that example for example, I would charge the batt like a 12v 7ah gel cell for 1-2 hours then I would turn off the circuit. The voltage would continue to climb and climb for up to an hour with no additional input. According to Bearden, that is the momentum of the lead ions still moving and that may or may not be accurate. Either way, the effect is very real.

That 'fluffy' charge is exactly what I'm experiencing. It's probably due to the 250 volt 2uf capacitor. The yellow ones sold with the bedini fan kit is an A/C capacitor right? I've also tried with those 200v 650uf power supply caps and it doesn't seem to make too big of a difference. They just take longer to fill up. I'm starting to think that I do need the 555 timer cap pulser circuit...

Neight
06-25-2011, 06:21 PM
I found some interesting information in another thread here (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/367-bedini-capacitive-discharge-chargers-2.html#post12151)



That 'fluffy' charge is exactly what I'm experiencing. It's probably due to the 250 volt 2uf capacitor. The yellow ones sold with the bedini fan kit is an A/C capacitor right? I've also tried with those 200v 650uf power supply caps and it doesn't seem to make too big of a difference. They just take longer to fill up. I'm starting to think that I do need the 555 timer cap pulser circuit...

here is a photo of the circuit I drew up. not the best photo, so if you need anything on it clarified, let me know. it works quite well in my SSG, and the only think I have on it that isn't in the diagram is a voltage regulator on the input to the 555 timer to protect it.

edit: OK for some reason the photo didn't load up right, here is a link to it on flickr...
pulse circuit | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/picturen8/5855933398/in/photostream)

jtanguay
06-26-2011, 01:31 PM
Thanks for the circuit Neight.

So I tried hooking up a 90 watt supply to the bedini at 19 volts and it's really spinning now, and the charge 'seems' to be much better. Thing is, I've hooked up the 18v battery to it and it took the voltage right up to 20 but I put it into the cordless powertool and it made a noise when I tried to use it, and then nothing else. Seems like whatever charge these batteries are taking is useless. Has anyone else experienced this? The commercial chargers being sold must have a 'secret' within them to properly charge the battery so it can actually do work. The battery will however light a light bulb... But if it can't charge a battery to operate a power tool, then it's useless IMO. It will also power the bedini fan charger but it is very weak and doesn't last long.

Again this could be due to the SCR cap pulser. Too bad nobody else has one of these kits and can report the same findings. If all I need to do is build the 555 cap pulser to get it working right, then that's what I'll do but I hate to spend so much time and money on something that 'might' work. Having a shoestring budget really sucks!

The battery I'm trying to revive now won't even be recognized by the charger... It usually takes some voodoo charging and discharging to the right capacity for it to even show up. Does anyone know how the conventional nicad chargers 'see' the battery? Either internal voltage, capacity, or impedance/resistance?

Also about the capacitors. Do they need to be AC or can they be DC? I tried a DC cap but it seemed to be a pretty weak charge...

Thanks

jtanguay
06-26-2011, 01:41 PM
It would seem that my problem only lies with the cap pulser. The 250 volt 2uf capacitor is only giving me a 'fluffy' charge which is exactly what I'm experiencing. It will charge alkaline batteries like this as well as other batteries.

So for anyone else with issues using these fan kits, if you're getting a fluffy charge, it is due to the capacitor not being the correct uf rating. A few volts over the battery voltage capacity is ideal as well from my reading of this thread (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/367-bedini-capacitive-discharge-chargers-2.html).

Slider2732
06-26-2011, 06:09 PM
I do hope you've nailed the troubles..it's always very encouraging to see someone work through such a problem. No doubt for the O/P as well.

After seeing just such a fluffy charge on my own pulse motors, the fix might have relevance to your problem - though do note i'm still fairly fresh at this, its not directly Bedini related, it just worked. Of importance before worrying about the cap pulser side maybe, is that my own don't have storage buffer caps..simple Adams motor types, with HV split through an AV plug along with the circuit voltage going into the battery.
I noted that at voltages of charge well above the battery voltage, the battery would take the power in and seemingly fill right up quite quickly. A whole session would be just 30 minutes and the battery would sit a volt or so above its rating for 20 minutes of that run.
However, items like watches would then only run for about a day on their recharged alkalines (tiny setups here). I found that the same sort of pot adjusting as you see in the Bedini videos also applies to other motor builds. That a sulfated battery may need to be charged initially on a comparatively large voltage (like traditional Ni-CD wisp blowing) and then the charge 'rate' turned down such that the battery climbs to capacity over a longer period.
If the run is performed in such a way, the charge goes in and stays in, as it were. Further charges of that battery can then be performed at the reduced level throughout, without the initial spike type wisp blowing.
I have a rejuvenated cordless drill Ni-CD battery here of 7.2V that even has a bust cell, bringing it down to 6V...yet the drill will run for many minutes after a 2 hour charge now, with plenty enough torque for household jobs.
So, just an observation of something that I hope helps.