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View Full Version : Base diode in Bedini SSG in series, not parallel


nilrehob
05-20-2011, 08:16 AM
I changed the base diode in the Bedini SSG and got much better result:

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3347/basict.png

Instead of diode going from E to B in parallel with trigger coil i put it in series.

I'm not exactly sure what the change does,
but it seems to save the base resistor so it can be small W and
eliminates the drag from the trigger-coil when circuit is in inactive phase

/Hob

blackchisel97
05-20-2011, 09:43 PM
I changed the base diode in the Bedini SSG and got much better result:

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3347/basict.png

Instead of diode going from E to B in parallel with trigger coil i put it in series.

I'm not exactly sure what the change does,
but it seems to save the base resistor so it can be small W and
eliminates the drag from the trigger-coil when circuit is in inactive phase

/Hob

How this change affected charging/discharging rates?
Interesting:thumbsup:

:cheers:
V

quantumuppercut
05-21-2011, 02:09 AM
Hi,

I think it acts as a dampener to the base diode. I agree that we can save some energy by tanking it with diode. I've developed a new type of triggering using photo-transistor. I used a photo-transistor coupled to a bright LED. The 1.5V is to boost the forward voltage (my rotor is very slow). The LED helps eliminate self resonance problem. The photo-transistor put out around 15-20 mA max and I think it operates up to Mhz range. I'm using it to explore oscillators.

nilrehob
05-21-2011, 07:24 AM
How this change affected charging/discharging rates?
Interesting:thumbsup:

:cheers:
V

Well, in my setup, the input dropped and the output went up :thumbsup:

/Hob

Slider2732
05-21-2011, 06:03 PM
@quantumppercut - :thumbsup:
That's how the ball type PC mouse encoders work..is that where the idea came from ?
Some old arcade machines also use that system, the driving ones. When I converted my Pole Position to run both the original boards and an emulator, I used a mouse circuit board to handle the steering wheel position.
An idea for a thumb sized Bedini type, might be to put say 4 tiny pieces of magnet inside some of the holes of a PC mouse encoder wheel and fit the wheel on ultra slick bearings. Use an SMD transistor and finest grade of magnet wire wound bifilar for the coil(s). Reminds me of a Flea Circus in how it may look !

@nilrehob - great observation. I'm new to all this but will try out that logic myself on similar devices :)

nafanja
05-21-2011, 07:11 PM
What kind of result do you have? Very interesting.

quantumuppercut
05-22-2011, 02:54 AM
@quantumppercut - :thumbsup:
That's how the ball type PC mouse encoders work..is that where the idea came from ?
Some old arcade machines also use that system, the driving ones. When I converted my Pole Position to run both the original boards and an emulator, I used a mouse circuit board to handle the steering wheel position.
An idea for a thumb sized Bedini type, might be to put say 4 tiny pieces of magnet inside some of the holes of a PC mouse encoder wheel and fit the wheel on ultra slick bearings. Use an SMD transistor and finest grade of magnet wire wound bifilar for the coil(s). Reminds me of a Flea Circus in how it may look !


Thanks Slider,

Originally I was trying to aim a pen laser at the photoxistor, but the alignment was too hard so I came up with this way. But darn, it's not original. lol

quantumuppercut
05-22-2011, 03:33 AM
What kind of result do you have? Very interesting.


Hello nafanja,

Not sure who the question is to but in case, I think the SG style (bifilar) is superior than any manual sensing setup and it adjust itself to less than 5L/R. I have not measure any serious power in/out but I know none of my component heat up. lol Furthermore, I expect the diode from emitter-collector to return a lot of energy to the run battery and extras, but my rotor has not reach a speed which induced enough voltage. Will look for a blazing fast rotor in the future.

QU

Zooty
05-22-2011, 10:15 AM
I changed the base diode in the Bedini SSG and got much better result:

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3347/basict.png

Instead of diode going from E to B in parallel with trigger coil i put it in series.

I'm not exactly sure what the change does,
but it seems to save the base resistor so it can be small W and
eliminates the drag from the trigger-coil when circuit is in inactive phase

/Hob

I tried it and got a lot of ringing in the coil and a burnt out resistor. The wheel would not spin.

Bill H
05-22-2011, 10:41 AM
I changed the base diode in the Bedini SSG and got much better result:

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3347/basict.png

Instead of diode going from E to B in parallel with trigger coil i put it in series.

I'm not exactly sure what the change does,
but it seems to save the base resistor so it can be small W and
eliminates the drag from the trigger-coil when circuit is in inactive phase

/Hob

I tried this on my 2 coil, 8 strands per coil ssg. I made the change on the fly by adding the series diode to my trigger circuit for each strand and then clipping the soldered diode at the transistor.
I had an amp. meter in place and could see the amperage drop slightly as each circuit was modified. I started at about 1.3 amps and dropped to just over 1 amp after modifications.
I should have had a tachometer on the wheel because just by the sound I think it may have also picked up a couple of RPM's.
As far as charging goes, I have far too large a battery bank on it at the moment to be able to notice any change.
Very interesting and definetly worth some research.
Thanks for bringing this to us Hob
Bill H.

Bill H
05-23-2011, 01:48 PM
I tried this on my 2 coil, 8 strands per coil ssg. I made the change on the fly by adding the series diode to my trigger circuit for each strand and then clipping the soldered diode at the transistor.
I had an amp. meter in place and could see the amperage drop slightly as each circuit was modified. I started at about 1.3 amps and dropped to just over 1 amp after modifications.
I should have had a tachometer on the wheel because just by the sound I think it may have also picked up a couple of RPM's.
As far as charging goes, I have far too large a battery bank on it at the moment to be able to notice any change.
Very interesting and definetly worth some research.
Thanks for bringing this to us Hob
Bill H.

http://www.energeticforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8368&stc=1&d=1306157735

When I originally made this modification I was running my ssg in a Tesla type battery configuration as in the second picture attached.
Today I connected my batteries in Bedini fashion with 12 volts on the run side and 24 volts on the charge side, I typically run at about 3 to 5 amps input with this set up and get good charging. But with the diode modification I experienced the same thing Zooty had. The coils self oscillated and the wheel would not spin, but I noticed a very fast voltage rise on the charge battery. I have not done any work with solid state but decided to give it a try. I tuned it to 3 and a half amps input and charging seems very good, everything is staying cool so I am going to let it run.
Still not sure what is happening with it set up this way but incase there is a benefit I will make some more tests.
Bill H.

nilrehob
05-23-2011, 02:02 PM
http://www.energeticforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8368&stc=1&d=1306157735

When I originally made this modification I was running my ssg in a Tesla type battery configuration as in the second picture attached.
Today I connected my batteries in Bedini fashion with 12 volts on the run side and 24 volts on the charge side, I typically run at about 3 to 5 amps input with this set up and get good charging. But with the diode modification I experienced the same thing Zooty had. The coils self oscillated and the wheel would not spin, but I noticed a very fast voltage rise on the charge battery. I have not done any work with solid state but decided to give it a try. I tuned it to 3 and a half amps input and charging seems very good, everything is staying cool so I am going to let it run.
Still not sure what is happening with it set up this way but incase there is a benefit I will make some more tests.
Bill H.

Interesting, please keep us posted!

:thumbsup:

/Hob

Zooty
05-23-2011, 08:00 PM
http://www.energeticforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8368&stc=1&d=1306157735

When I originally made this modification I was running my ssg in a Tesla type battery configuration as in the second picture attached.
Today I connected my batteries in Bedini fashion with 12 volts on the run side and 24 volts on the charge side, I typically run at about 3 to 5 amps input with this set up and get good charging. But with the diode modification I experienced the same thing Zooty had. The coils self oscillated and the wheel would not spin, but I noticed a very fast voltage rise on the charge battery. I have not done any work with solid state but decided to give it a try. I tuned it to 3 and a half amps input and charging seems very good, everything is staying cool so I am going to let it run.
Still not sure what is happening with it set up this way but incase there is a benefit I will make some more tests.
Bill H.

I am testing this also. So far, what i have found is that the primary is not dropping as fast as it does in the normal configuration and the charge rate is very nice. I put a scope across the run battery and there is definitely some back popping going on because i get spikes appearing. Interesting mod :thumbsup:

Bill H
05-23-2011, 09:12 PM
I am testing this also. So far, what i have found is that the primary is not dropping as fast as it does in the normal configuration and the charge rate is very nice. I put a scope across the run battery and there is definitely some back popping going on because i get spikes appearing. Interesting mod :thumbsup:

Zooty..Are you running in solid state? Or did you reconfigure your batteries and have your wheel spinning?
Bill H.

Zooty
05-23-2011, 10:38 PM
Zooty..Are you running in solid state? Or did you reconfigure your batteries and have your wheel spinning?
Bill H.

Solid state, can't get it to spin with the diode mod. I am using the circuit in the first post.